Date   

Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Bruce Crain
 

Nice!  I knew I hadn’t dreamed it but never knew anyone that used sand/shot bags!
Bruce


On Mar 28, 2021, at 11:26 AM, Jerry Marstall <jerrylm1986@...> wrote:


Excellent!

On Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 12:18 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Among of the most valuable of “shop accessories” that I made and one that I ended up using almost everywhere were my “shot bags”. I used them in ways similar to what Vern describes as well as to hold curved parts in place until they cured. The uses are numerous as you can imagine.

 

Here is how they are easily made. Go to your local ammunition “reload” shop and buy a 50 pound bag of bird shot.  Buy some standard “Zip-lock” sandwich bags. Pour 2 pounds of shot into each sandwich bag, press the air out while positioning the shot in the bottom half of the bag and seal the zip-lock, then fold the empty top half over on the lower half. Now wrap the bag in duct tape, making sure to reinforce the ends and corners with overlapping tape.

 

These bags will last many years (a couple decades in my case). If they start to wear, you just add more duct tape. The 2 pound size is almost perfect size for the individual bags and can be used singly or stacked on top of one another or laid edge to edge. You can toss them to the floor and they will not break or leak shot. You can use masking tape to hold them in place, and they will easily pull loose from any cured epoxy that you may have inadvertently set them on top of.

 

Here is a picture of some in use when I was laminating sheets of plywood used to build my overhead C-beam.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 9:19 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

 This is the idea with caul sheets, which are made of dense high temp resistant rubber and then the parts are made in the autoclave where pressure (can easily exceed theoretical 15 psi permitted by vacuum) is equally applied during the cure. The pre-preg cure is accelerated and the temps taken right up to the heat saturation point so the structure will withstand higher ramp temps in Arizona for instance. 

 

 No post cure required as is done on tool-less composite with wet resin layup. The speed of the transition within the autoclave from a cold sticky pre-preg to a runny resin mix is just as critical as the stipple and squeegee process. Higher pressures also bring into the picture "core crush" problems which solid foams are not prone to. There are effective methods to prevent this problem (which for some reason Nordam had no idea about and they refused to listen to Contractor engineering folks that already solved this at other factory settings like at for instance, Raytheon!!)

 

 The short of it is.. yes.. the sandbag method works and with rubber sheeting on top of the bagging beautiful contour parts within reason can be made. Your getting into a tooling condition tho... but it is very acceptable. Advantage of shot bagging or sand is there are no vacuum leaks to be concerned about. Bleeder cloth are still involved and that is usual because the layup cures to an excellent correct ratio. By careful preparation you'll end up with near perfect parts with zero risk of a leaky tape seal or pump failure at the worst possible time. 

 

Vern     

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 3:40 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the outside bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group think and does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.

Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700

Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum bagging, peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot of noise from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
If the link doesn't work search YouTube for

Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks

 




Re: Extinguishers

gbrighton@...
 

Chris,
We aren't required to carry a F/Extinguisher in Oz .. but a Pilot friend mentioned to me he came across a ... like Mini .. hand held F/Extinguisher .. that sounded good for a/craft use .. its a small hand held unit that is ok for Electrical and Petrol ... has the potential 'early/small' cockpit fire suppression .. with out maybe choking the Cockpit ... he has ordered .. but the suppler is waiting for stock .. im wanting to check it out when he receives his .. but a google search should reveal all ..,
Cheers
Graham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dorothea Keats" <dkeats@tbaytel.net>
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 12:15 AM
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Extinguishers

Any suggestions for placement of the fire extinguishers? The rule say it needs to be accessible by the pilot with his seat belt on.

My old Cessna it was behind the seat and you could only reach it if you dislocated your shoulder, so the rules may be open for interpretation. My biplane it is between my legs on the floor. Also hard to reach. The only spot I found is on the seat back between the seats. It would have to be less than 10 inches long. I would like to install it behind the seat back in the storage compartment, but I don't know how that would go over.

I don't think I would ever let an extinguisher go in flight. I think I would rather be able to see and breath. Hopefully, I never have to make that choice.

I installed the ELT on the side of the fuselage behind the passenger compartment.

I also installed a master switch that you reach under the middle console on the seat back to turn off and on.

I found a Garmin 327 transponder and encoder. Installed the antenna in the tail cone with a disconnect to remove the tail.

Waiting for my SDS system to finish the engine and panel and almost ready for paint when the weather improves.

Still having fun and staying a little bit sane. Take care------------ Chris



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Fire Extinguisher

Jim Patillo
 



Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space


Re: Extinguishers

Mike Steinsland
 

Anybody consider installing a horizontal tube in the seat bulkhead between the seats and shoving it in there?


On Sun., Mar. 28, 2021, 2:35 p.m. Richard Thomson, <richard@...> wrote:
     I noticed that Corbin has his between the seats so it is padded by
them to an extent.

     Looks like the same extinquisher as mine so going with that for me
too.  Jim P also but slightly higher.

     Rich T.

On 28/03/2021 16:28, Jay Scheevel wrote:
> I have mine in the quick-release mount on the back side of the passenger seat back. Could be an issue if the passenger is in the plane, but so far, that has not happened. I can easily tilt that forward in flight and remove it with one hand. I may find a different place for it if I start flying passengers.
>
> Cheers,
> Jay
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dorothea Keats
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 7:15 AM
> To: main@Q-List.groups.io
> Subject: [Q-List] Extinguishers
>
>    Any suggestions for placement of the fire extinguishers? The rule say it needs to be accessible by the pilot with his seat belt on.
>
>    My old Cessna  it was behind the seat and you could only reach it if you dislocated your shoulder, so the rules may be open for interpretation.  My biplane it is between my legs on the floor. Also hard to reach.  The only spot I found is on the seat back between the seats.  It would have to be less than 10 inches long. I would like to install it behind the seat back in the storage compartment, but I don't know how that would go over.
>
>    I don't think I would ever let an extinguisher go in flight. I think I would rather be able to see and breath. Hopefully,  I never have to make that choice.
>
> I installed the ELT on the side of the fuselage behind the passenger compartment.
>
>    I also installed a master switch that you reach under the middle console on the seat back to turn off and on.
>
>    I found a Garmin 327 transponder and encoder.  Installed the antenna in the tail cone with a disconnect to remove the tail.
>
>    Waiting for my SDS system to finish the engine and panel and almost ready for paint when the weather improves.
>
>    Still having fun and staying a little bit sane.   Take
> care------------  Chris
>
>
>






Re: Flight report

Richard Thomson
 

Good advice Jay, Nice report.

Rich T.

On 27/03/2021 22:19, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Took to the beautiful clear blue skies of western Colorado this morning for about 50 minutes of fun in my Q. The calm conditions made it very enjoyable, and with the OAT at 1 to 2 degrees C at altitude, my plane also enjoyed stretching its legs. I took the time pleasure of doing a number of tight turns and couple of lazy 8’s. People on the ground were no doubt thinking that the pilot was drunk, but the pilot (me) did not care. I made one low pass “option” at my home airport, and glancing down briefly at the AS strip on the EFIS, I thought I saw 190 mph IAS. I suspected I might be imagining things, but my EFIS data download shows 192 IAS and 206 TAS. I think that is the fastest my plane has been so far. Made a very nice landing, so it really topped off the fun. I spent the rest of the morning laying on my back rubbing my plane’s belly. I think it likes that. I thought I heard it purring. I agree with Kevin B. It is too much fun flying these little Q-beasts. If you are building and not yet flying, keep pushing along. You will finish it at some point and then the fun begins.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ, 136 hours


Re: Extinguishers

Richard Thomson
 

I noticed that Corbin has his between the seats so it is padded by them to an extent.

    Looks like the same extinquisher as mine so going with that for me too.  Jim P also but slightly higher.

    Rich T.

On 28/03/2021 16:28, Jay Scheevel wrote:
I have mine in the quick-release mount on the back side of the passenger seat back. Could be an issue if the passenger is in the plane, but so far, that has not happened. I can easily tilt that forward in flight and remove it with one hand. I may find a different place for it if I start flying passengers.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dorothea Keats
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 7:15 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Extinguishers

Any suggestions for placement of the fire extinguishers? The rule say it needs to be accessible by the pilot with his seat belt on.

My old Cessna it was behind the seat and you could only reach it if you dislocated your shoulder, so the rules may be open for interpretation. My biplane it is between my legs on the floor. Also hard to reach. The only spot I found is on the seat back between the seats. It would have to be less than 10 inches long. I would like to install it behind the seat back in the storage compartment, but I don't know how that would go over.

I don't think I would ever let an extinguisher go in flight. I think I would rather be able to see and breath. Hopefully, I never have to make that choice.

I installed the ELT on the side of the fuselage behind the passenger compartment.

I also installed a master switch that you reach under the middle console on the seat back to turn off and on.

I found a Garmin 327 transponder and encoder. Installed the antenna in the tail cone with a disconnect to remove the tail.

Waiting for my SDS system to finish the engine and panel and almost ready for paint when the weather improves.

Still having fun and staying a little bit sane. Take
care------------ Chris



Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Jerry Marstall
 

Excellent!


On Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 12:18 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Among of the most valuable of “shop accessories” that I made and one that I ended up using almost everywhere were my “shot bags”. I used them in ways similar to what Vern describes as well as to hold curved parts in place until they cured. The uses are numerous as you can imagine.

 

Here is how they are easily made. Go to your local ammunition “reload” shop and buy a 50 pound bag of bird shot.  Buy some standard “Zip-lock” sandwich bags. Pour 2 pounds of shot into each sandwich bag, press the air out while positioning the shot in the bottom half of the bag and seal the zip-lock, then fold the empty top half over on the lower half. Now wrap the bag in duct tape, making sure to reinforce the ends and corners with overlapping tape.

 

These bags will last many years (a couple decades in my case). If they start to wear, you just add more duct tape. The 2 pound size is almost perfect size for the individual bags and can be used singly or stacked on top of one another or laid edge to edge. You can toss them to the floor and they will not break or leak shot. You can use masking tape to hold them in place, and they will easily pull loose from any cured epoxy that you may have inadvertently set them on top of.

 

Here is a picture of some in use when I was laminating sheets of plywood used to build my overhead C-beam.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 9:19 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

 This is the idea with caul sheets, which are made of dense high temp resistant rubber and then the parts are made in the autoclave where pressure (can easily exceed theoretical 15 psi permitted by vacuum) is equally applied during the cure. The pre-preg cure is accelerated and the temps taken right up to the heat saturation point so the structure will withstand higher ramp temps in Arizona for instance. 

 

 No post cure required as is done on tool-less composite with wet resin layup. The speed of the transition within the autoclave from a cold sticky pre-preg to a runny resin mix is just as critical as the stipple and squeegee process. Higher pressures also bring into the picture "core crush" problems which solid foams are not prone to. There are effective methods to prevent this problem (which for some reason Nordam had no idea about and they refused to listen to Contractor engineering folks that already solved this at other factory settings like at for instance, Raytheon!!)

 

 The short of it is.. yes.. the sandbag method works and with rubber sheeting on top of the bagging beautiful contour parts within reason can be made. Your getting into a tooling condition tho... but it is very acceptable. Advantage of shot bagging or sand is there are no vacuum leaks to be concerned about. Bleeder cloth are still involved and that is usual because the layup cures to an excellent correct ratio. By careful preparation you'll end up with near perfect parts with zero risk of a leaky tape seal or pump failure at the worst possible time. 

 

Vern     

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 3:40 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the outside bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group think and does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.

Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700

Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum bagging, peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot of noise from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
If the link doesn't work search YouTube for

Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks

 


Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Jay Scheevel
 

Among of the most valuable of “shop accessories” that I made and one that I ended up using almost everywhere were my “shot bags”. I used them in ways similar to what Vern describes as well as to hold curved parts in place until they cured. The uses are numerous as you can imagine.

 

Here is how they are easily made. Go to your local ammunition “reload” shop and buy a 50 pound bag of bird shot.  Buy some standard “Zip-lock” sandwich bags. Pour 2 pounds of shot into each sandwich bag, press the air out while positioning the shot in the bottom half of the bag and seal the zip-lock, then fold the empty top half over on the lower half. Now wrap the bag in duct tape, making sure to reinforce the ends and corners with overlapping tape.

 

These bags will last many years (a couple decades in my case). If they start to wear, you just add more duct tape. The 2 pound size is almost perfect size for the individual bags and can be used singly or stacked on top of one another or laid edge to edge. You can toss them to the floor and they will not break or leak shot. You can use masking tape to hold them in place, and they will easily pull loose from any cured epoxy that you may have inadvertently set them on top of.

 

Here is a picture of some in use when I was laminating sheets of plywood used to build my overhead C-beam.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 9:19 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

 This is the idea with caul sheets, which are made of dense high temp resistant rubber and then the parts are made in the autoclave where pressure (can easily exceed theoretical 15 psi permitted by vacuum) is equally applied during the cure. The pre-preg cure is accelerated and the temps taken right up to the heat saturation point so the structure will withstand higher ramp temps in Arizona for instance. 

 

 No post cure required as is done on tool-less composite with wet resin layup. The speed of the transition within the autoclave from a cold sticky pre-preg to a runny resin mix is just as critical as the stipple and squeegee process. Higher pressures also bring into the picture "core crush" problems which solid foams are not prone to. There are effective methods to prevent this problem (which for some reason Nordam had no idea about and they refused to listen to Contractor engineering folks that already solved this at other factory settings like at for instance, Raytheon!!)

 

 The short of it is.. yes.. the sandbag method works and with rubber sheeting on top of the bagging beautiful contour parts within reason can be made. Your getting into a tooling condition tho... but it is very acceptable. Advantage of shot bagging or sand is there are no vacuum leaks to be concerned about. Bleeder cloth are still involved and that is usual because the layup cures to an excellent correct ratio. By careful preparation you'll end up with near perfect parts with zero risk of a leaky tape seal or pump failure at the worst possible time. 

 

Vern     

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 3:40 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the outside bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group think and does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.

Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700

Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum bagging, peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot of noise from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
If the link doesn't work search YouTube for

Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks

 


Re: Flight wild winds with Honey Lamb!

Bruce Crain
 

🤣


On Mar 28, 2021, at 10:29 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



How about “Fulsom Prison Blues”. I will modify the lyrics to be more Quickie-centric and we can have a FOD sing along.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 7:53 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Flight wild winds with Honey Lamb!

 

Myself “sprinting” and Jay “singing” might be a bit of a stretch!  But then I’ve never heard Jay sing so next field of dreams I can bring my guitar and maybe Accompany Jay!  Let all encourage Jay to sing something!

Send me a song so I can practice a bit!

Bruce



On Mar 28, 2021, at 7:36 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

“Ohhhh-kla-homa, where the wind comes whistling ‘cross your plane”.... apologies to Oskar Hammerstein.



On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:07 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:



Wow that's some wind!

Thanks for the flight report!

Mike Dwyer

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 11:05 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Honey Lamb and I flew 1.5 hours yesterday.  Tail winds pushed us to 195 mph on the way to Stearman Field in Benton, KS for noon meal!  Great air park, airstrip and grill. However the trip home was 115 mph.  Average the two numbers and you will get my normal cruise at 24 squared.  The ride was wild and turbulent but the TriQ 200 doesn’t seem to mind.  Couple of good landings with winds 20 gusting to 30 mph!  We take the TriQ when it is extra windy and especially when it is a cross wind.  It seems a lot more forgiving but then I have over 1000 hours in the TriQ and only a few hundred in our RV 6.  Fun fun lil airplane that gathers all the attention.  Not that it matters.  (Yeah right).  Build em.  Get em done!  Enjoy em!
Bruce
____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more

True-Crime Case Has Nearly Destroyed Best-Selling Author
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255751e772545152st02duc1
Few Agree With Redfield on Virus Origin: 'That's Fine'
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255988a272545152st02duc2
R.I. Steer No Longer on the Lam
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255bc12272545152st02duc3
From my college days.  Yeah I’ve always loved going fast!  Now the only way to do that is in a Quickie!  And yep Ronnie Lee was smokin’ me!  But then look at the drag I had going on with my “Dippie Hippie hair”!




 




Re: Resin volume placed on foam

smeshno1@...
 

  That is the logic of vacuum infusion which was used to build A380 Spars at Spirit. A known wet-out resin...controlled. The Infusion drawn through wets the fibers via wicking.   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 9:43 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
Would it help the Cozy Girls low vac pressure to extract extra epoxie and lay the fibers out flatter?  I may be spitting into the wind here.  Somebody talk me down. 
Bruce


On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:57 PM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

 Bruce,

Vacuum bags provide uniform pressure. Weights do not. 25” of mercury is about 10 lb/in sq or 1440 lbs per ft sq. By reducing the vacuum to 5” Hg (shop vac) it would be about 200 lb / ft sq.

You end up with thinner face sheets that may weigh less but the buckling resistance is less than hand laid laminates. Stiffness is a cube function of thickness.

Charlie


On Saturday, March 27, 2021, 1:40 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the outside bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group think and does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700

Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum bagging, peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot of noise from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks




Re: Flight wild winds with Honey Lamb!

Jay Scheevel
 

How about “Fulsom Prison Blues”. I will modify the lyrics to be more Quickie-centric and we can have a FOD sing along.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 7:53 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Flight wild winds with Honey Lamb!

 

Myself “sprinting” and Jay “singing” might be a bit of a stretch!  But then I’ve never heard Jay sing so next field of dreams I can bring my guitar and maybe Accompany Jay!  Let all encourage Jay to sing something!

Send me a song so I can practice a bit!

Bruce



On Mar 28, 2021, at 7:36 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

“Ohhhh-kla-homa, where the wind comes whistling ‘cross your plane”.... apologies to Oskar Hammerstein.



On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:07 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:



Wow that's some wind!

Thanks for the flight report!

Mike Dwyer

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 11:05 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Honey Lamb and I flew 1.5 hours yesterday.  Tail winds pushed us to 195 mph on the way to Stearman Field in Benton, KS for noon meal!  Great air park, airstrip and grill. However the trip home was 115 mph.  Average the two numbers and you will get my normal cruise at 24 squared.  The ride was wild and turbulent but the TriQ 200 doesn’t seem to mind.  Couple of good landings with winds 20 gusting to 30 mph!  We take the TriQ when it is extra windy and especially when it is a cross wind.  It seems a lot more forgiving but then I have over 1000 hours in the TriQ and only a few hundred in our RV 6.  Fun fun lil airplane that gathers all the attention.  Not that it matters.  (Yeah right).  Build em.  Get em done!  Enjoy em!
Bruce
____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more

True-Crime Case Has Nearly Destroyed Best-Selling Author
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255751e772545152st02duc1
Few Agree With Redfield on Virus Origin: 'That's Fine'
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255988a272545152st02duc2
R.I. Steer No Longer on the Lam
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255bc12272545152st02duc3
From my college days.  Yeah I’ve always loved going fast!  Now the only way to do that is in a Quickie!  And yep Ronnie Lee was smokin’ me!  But then look at the drag I had going on with my “Dippie Hippie hair”!




 


Re: Extinguishers

Jay Scheevel
 

I have mine in the quick-release mount on the back side of the passenger seat back. Could be an issue if the passenger is in the plane, but so far, that has not happened. I can easily tilt that forward in flight and remove it with one hand. I may find a different place for it if I start flying passengers.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dorothea Keats
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 7:15 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Extinguishers

Any suggestions for placement of the fire extinguishers? The rule say it needs to be accessible by the pilot with his seat belt on.

My old Cessna it was behind the seat and you could only reach it if you dislocated your shoulder, so the rules may be open for interpretation. My biplane it is between my legs on the floor. Also hard to reach. The only spot I found is on the seat back between the seats. It would have to be less than 10 inches long. I would like to install it behind the seat back in the storage compartment, but I don't know how that would go over.

I don't think I would ever let an extinguisher go in flight. I think I would rather be able to see and breath. Hopefully, I never have to make that choice.

I installed the ELT on the side of the fuselage behind the passenger compartment.

I also installed a master switch that you reach under the middle console on the seat back to turn off and on.

I found a Garmin 327 transponder and encoder. Installed the antenna in the tail cone with a disconnect to remove the tail.

Waiting for my SDS system to finish the engine and panel and almost ready for paint when the weather improves.

Still having fun and staying a little bit sane. Take
care------------ Chris



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Re: Resin volume placed on foam

smeshno1@...
 

 To clarify my statement Bruce, agreeing with Charlie because I was thinking of flat bulkheads such as used within the fuselage. Weight bagging with caul sheet works on flat or simple contour. Not a wise choice for main load bearing structural parts or with larger contours.     


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 4:57 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
Bruce,

Vacuum bags provide uniform pressure. Weights do not. 25” of mercury is about 10 lb/in sq or 1440 lbs per ft sq. By reducing the vacuum to 5” Hg (shop vac) it would be about 200 lb / ft sq.

You end up with thinner face sheets that may weigh less but the buckling resistance is less than hand laid laminates. Stiffness is a cube function of thickness.

Charlie


On Saturday, March 27, 2021, 1:40 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the outside bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group think and does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700

Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum bagging, peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot of noise from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks


Re: Resin volume placed on foam

smeshno1@...
 

 This is the idea with caul sheets, which are made of dense high temp resistant rubber and then the parts are made in the autoclave where pressure (can easily exceed theoretical 15 psi permitted by vacuum) is equally applied during the cure. The pre-preg cure is accelerated and the temps taken right up to the heat saturation point so the structure will withstand higher ramp temps in Arizona for instance. 

 No post cure required as is done on tool-less composite with wet resin layup. The speed of the transition within the autoclave from a cold sticky pre-preg to a runny resin mix is just as critical as the stipple and squeegee process. Higher pressures also bring into the picture "core crush" problems which solid foams are not prone to. There are effective methods to prevent this problem (which for some reason Nordam had no idea about and they refused to listen to Contractor engineering folks that already solved this at other factory settings like at for instance, Raytheon!!)

 The short of it is.. yes.. the sandbag method works and with rubber sheeting on top of the bagging beautiful contour parts within reason can be made. Your getting into a tooling condition tho... but it is very acceptable. Advantage of shot bagging or sand is there are no vacuum leaks to be concerned about. Bleeder cloth are still involved and that is usual because the layup cures to an excellent correct ratio. By careful preparation you'll end up with near perfect parts with zero risk of a leaky tape seal or pump failure at the worst possible time. 

Vern     


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 3:40 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the outside bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group think and does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700

Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum bagging, peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot of noise from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
If the link doesn't work search YouTube for

Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks



Re: Flight wild winds with Honey Lamb!

Bruce Crain
 

Myself “sprinting” and Jay “singing” might be a bit of a stretch!  But then I’ve never heard Jay sing so next field of dreams I can bring my guitar and maybe Accompany Jay!  Let all encourage Jay to sing something!
Send me a song so I can practice a bit!
Bruce


On Mar 28, 2021, at 7:36 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

“Ohhhh-kla-homa, where the wind comes whistling ‘cross your plane”.... apologies to Oskar Hammerstein.


On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:07 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:


Wow that's some wind!
Thanks for the flight report!
Mike Dwyer

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 11:05 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
Honey Lamb and I flew 1.5 hours yesterday.  Tail winds pushed us to 195 mph on the way to Stearman Field in Benton, KS for noon meal!  Great air park, airstrip and grill. However the trip home was 115 mph.  Average the two numbers and you will get my normal cruise at 24 squared.  The ride was wild and turbulent but the TriQ 200 doesn’t seem to mind.  Couple of good landings with winds 20 gusting to 30 mph!  We take the TriQ when it is extra windy and especially when it is a cross wind.  It seems a lot more forgiving but then I have over 1000 hours in the TriQ and only a few hundred in our RV 6.  Fun fun lil airplane that gathers all the attention.  Not that it matters.  (Yeah right).  Build em.  Get em done!  Enjoy em!
Bruce
____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more

True-Crime Case Has Nearly Destroyed Best-Selling Author
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255751e772545152st02duc1
Few Agree With Redfield on Virus Origin: 'That's Fine'
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255988a272545152st02duc2
R.I. Steer No Longer on the Lam
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255bc12272545152st02duc3
From my college days.  Yeah I’ve always loved going fast!  Now the only way to do that is in a Quickie!  And yep Ronnie Lee was smokin’ me!  But then look at the drag I had going on with my “Dippie Hippie hair”!








Re: Extinguishers

Terry Adams
 

Halon.
I put mine on the seat back bulkhead on the far right side

Terry

On 3/28/2021 6:15 AM, Dorothea Keats wrote:
 Any suggestions for placement of the fire extinguishers? The rule say it needs to be accessible by the pilot with his seat belt on.

 My old Cessna  it was behind the seat and you could only reach it if you dislocated your shoulder, so the rules may be open for interpretation.  My biplane it is between my legs on the floor. Also hard to reach.  The only spot I found is on the seat back between the seats.  It would have to be less than 10 inches long. I would like to install it behind the seat back in the storage compartment, but I don't know how that would go over.

 I don't think I would ever let an extinguisher go in flight. I think I would rather be able to see and breath. Hopefully,  I never have to make that choice.

I installed the ELT on the side of the fuselage behind the passenger compartment.

 I also installed a master switch that you reach under the middle console on the seat back to turn off and on.

 I found a Garmin 327 transponder and encoder.  Installed the antenna in the tail cone with a disconnect to remove the tail.

 Waiting for my SDS system to finish the engine and panel and almost ready for paint when the weather improves.

 Still having fun and staying a little bit sane.   Take care------------  Chris




-- 
Communication ink and paper free


Re: Resin volume placed on foam

One Sky Dog
 

Thickness as fabric loft in un-consolidated laminates.

A consolidated laminate with the same number of plies will be thinner than a contact layup. Because thickness of the laminate is a cube function the consolidated laminate will not be as stiff as the unconsolidated laminate.

Resin sitting on top of fiber does nothing for stiffness as the Modulus of elasticity for epoxy is 400 K compared to glass 2 M.

Thinner laminates buckle easier and put more load on the foam that is trying to keep the skin from buckling.

On Sunday, March 28, 2021, 5:25 AM, Terry Adams <terrywadams@...> wrote:

"thickness" should not be interpreted as excess resin accomplishing the same as glass and resin in the correct proportions.

Terry

On 3/27/2021 2:57 PM, One Sky Dog via groups.io wrote:
Bruce,

Vacuum bags provide uniform pressure. Weights do not. 25” of mercury is about 10 lb/in sq or 1440 lbs per ft sq. By reducing the vacuum to 5” Hg (shop vac) it would be about 200 lb / ft sq.

You end up with thinner face sheets that may weigh less but the buckling resistance is less than hand laid laminates. Stiffness is a cube function of thickness.

Charlie


On Saturday, March 27, 2021, 1:40 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the outside bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group think and does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700

Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum bagging, peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot of noise from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks


-- 
Communication ink and paper free


Extinguishers

Chris Walterson
 

Any suggestions for placement of the fire extinguishers? The rule say it needs to be accessible by the pilot with his seat belt on.

 My old Cessna  it was behind the seat and you could only reach it if you dislocated your shoulder, so the rules may be open for interpretation.  My biplane it is between my legs on the floor. Also hard to reach.  The only spot I found is on the seat back between the seats.  It would have to be less than 10 inches long. I would like to install it behind the seat back in the storage compartment, but I don't know how that would go over.

 I don't think I would ever let an extinguisher go in flight. I think I would rather be able to see and breath. Hopefully,  I never have to make that choice.

I installed the ELT on the side of the fuselage behind the passenger compartment.

 I also installed a master switch that you reach under the middle console on the seat back to turn off and on.

 I found a Garmin 327 transponder and encoder.  Installed the antenna in the tail cone with a disconnect to remove the tail.

 Waiting for my SDS system to finish the engine and panel and almost ready for paint when the weather improves.

 Still having fun and staying a little bit sane.   Take care------------  Chris



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Re: Flight wild winds with Honey Lamb!

Jay Scheevel
 

“Ohhhh-kla-homa, where the wind comes whistling ‘cross your plane”.... apologies to Oskar Hammerstein.


On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:07 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:


Wow that's some wind!
Thanks for the flight report!
Mike Dwyer

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 11:05 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
Honey Lamb and I flew 1.5 hours yesterday.  Tail winds pushed us to 195 mph on the way to Stearman Field in Benton, KS for noon meal!  Great air park, airstrip and grill. However the trip home was 115 mph.  Average the two numbers and you will get my normal cruise at 24 squared.  The ride was wild and turbulent but the TriQ 200 doesn’t seem to mind.  Couple of good landings with winds 20 gusting to 30 mph!  We take the TriQ when it is extra windy and especially when it is a cross wind.  It seems a lot more forgiving but then I have over 1000 hours in the TriQ and only a few hundred in our RV 6.  Fun fun lil airplane that gathers all the attention.  Not that it matters.  (Yeah right).  Build em.  Get em done!  Enjoy em!
Bruce
____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more

True-Crime Case Has Nearly Destroyed Best-Selling Author
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255751e772545152st02duc1
Few Agree With Redfield on Virus Origin: 'That's Fine'
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255988a272545152st02duc2
R.I. Steer No Longer on the Lam
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605ff255bc12272545152st02duc3
From my college days.  Yeah I’ve always loved going fast!  Now the only way to do that is in a Quickie!  And yep Ronnie Lee was smokin’ me!  But then look at the drag I had going on with my “Dippie Hippie hair”!






Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Terry Adams
 

"thickness" should not be interpreted as excess resin accomplishing the same as glass and resin in the correct proportions.

Terry

On 3/27/2021 2:57 PM, One Sky Dog via groups.io wrote:
Bruce,

Vacuum bags provide uniform pressure. Weights do not. 25” of mercury is about 10 lb/in sq or 1440 lbs per ft sq. By reducing the vacuum to 5” Hg (shop vac) it would be about 200 lb / ft sq.

You end up with thinner face sheets that may weigh less but the buckling resistance is less than hand laid laminates. Stiffness is a cube function of thickness.

Charlie


On Saturday, March 27, 2021, 1:40 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the outside bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group think and does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700

Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum bagging, peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot of noise from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks


-- 
Communication ink and paper free

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