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Re: Resin volume placed on foam
Charlie you're starting to sound like Jimmeh also! Getting them done and keeping them simple and to plans will get you in the air sooner. I flying them is sweeter than building. No really!
Bruce
---------- Original Message ---------- From: "One Sky Dog via groups.io" <Oneskydog@...> To: <main@Q-List.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 09:57:50 +0000 (UTC) Rob, In an auto clave the usual cure cycle begins with full vacuum to expand the air bubbles so they move laterally between the plies. The pressure is applied to reduce the size of any voids left and drive remaining gases into solution in the resin.
Blender scheduals are calculated to not remove to much resin.
Charlie My you tube channel
On Monday, March 29, 2021, 1:30 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
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Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up
Nice! What engine will you use? Yep you will get a lot of sanding in the process!
Bruce
---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Eugen Pilarski" <interbus@...> To: main@q-list.groups.io Subject: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:19:05 +0200 The fuselage of Q1 is coming up from the foam and the stuff is very sandy :-)) Some picture from the progress ..... Eugen
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Re: Windy pilot's report.
Jerry Marstall
Great picture. J
On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 8:25 AM Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:
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Re: Windy pilot's report.
Brian Larick
Sam, with your updates what makes the Q such a challenging bird still...Is the root cause the width of the mains? Or is it also control authority with the rudder? Some combination?
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Brian
On Mar 30, 2021, at 09:02, Anthony P <solarant@...> wrote:
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Re: Windy pilot's report.
Anthony P
By "new", do you mean anyone with less than 2000 hrs? :)
Glad you had fun and were able to demonstrate your skills. 
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Re: Windy pilot's report.
Great report Sam, what a cool Grandad !! You certainly have a few hours experience. Thanks. Rich T.
On 30/03/2021 13:25, Sam Hoskins wrote:
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Windy pilot's report.
Please forgive me for mixing up knots & mph here, it’s just the way I roll. I generally use mph for airspeeds and knots for navigation and all that “official” stuff. It works for me.
Yesterday, I took a little 150 mile hop to see my daughter, Jen and granddaughter Mackenzie. The winds at my departure, KMDH, were pretty much straight out of the south and I had a nice tailwind at 3,500 feet. True airspeed of about 180 mph. My GPS was showing a ground speed of 185 kts so I was really clipping along. When I got to Champaign, KCMI, things were getting interesting. The ATIS said the winds were 190 degrees, 18 kts, gusting to 22. They were using runway 14L, so that gave me a hefty 80 degree crossswind. Yikes! I wasn’t sure if I was able to manage this and was fully prepared to just head back home if warranted. My final approach was fast, about 105 mph. I experimented with a slip to keep the nose pointed straight but the right wing was so low I didn't think that was going to work so I just crabbed all the way down until I straightened out for touchdown. I was probably still doing between 95 & 100 mph crossing the numbers, but somehow I was able to pull it off and keep it on the runway. Whew!
A couple of hours later, now the departure seemed intimidating. The wind had really picked up and was now 170 degrees at 18 kts, gusting to 27 and they were using runway 22 for departures, giving 50 degrees of xwind.
My Q-200 has a nice strong engine and I was able to accelerate quickly. It’s funny what goes through your mind, but half way through the takeoff roll I was thinking “New Quickie pilots shouldn’t do this”. Understatement. I held it down as long as I could, then quickly brought back the stick back so I could leave the ground without any skidding. All went well. Of course, now I paid the headwind penalty on the way home and my ground-speed dropped to 133 kts.
So, my trip north took 55 minutes and coming back was an hour and 15. Back at Carbondale, the winds were a balmy 190 kts at 18-22, landing on 18L and everything was relatively smooth.
It was a good day. Sam Hoskins Q-200 ~2,070 hours 
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Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up
Rob de Bie
Very nice work indeed!! But I agree with Keith: the sharp corners are far from optimal. Your light vacuum will make sure that the glass fiber cloth will conform, so that's not the problem. But if you have a multiple ply laminate laid over a small radius, you will get high out-of-plane stresses if a bending moment is applied. Now whether there is a lot of bending moment in the fuselage skins, I don't know, they are probably secondary effects. But I would nevertheless increase the radius quite a bit.
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As an example of out-of-plane stresses: imagine laminating a 90 angle with 10 cm / 4 inch legs, with 3 or 4 layers. If you would bend it so the angle gets smaller, the out-of-plane stresses will push the laminate plies against each other - no problem. But if you bend it so the angle gets bigger, the sign changes, and the out-of-plane stresses want to delaminate. Now do this same experiment with different radii, and you will see that the larger the radius, the stronger the specimen will be. Rob
On 30 Mar 2021 13:43, Keith Welsh wrote:
Hi Eugen,
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Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up
Hi Eugen,
Very nice photos.
The only comment I might have is in regards to the contour edges.
From the photos they look kinda sharp. If I remember right the glass cloth likes rounded edges.
It doesn't like making sharp turns. The only places I remember having sharp turns is where glass tapes were used for bulkheads and micro was used in the corners.
But that was a long time ago too.
Those currently building may have a better view of that.
Just my two cents.
Keith
N494K
---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Eugen Pilarski" <interbus@...> To: main@q-list.groups.io Subject: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:19:05 +0200 The fuselage of Q1 is coming up from the foam and the stuff is very sandy :-)) Some picture from the progress ..... Eugen
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Re: Resin volume placed on foam
Rob,
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In an auto clave the usual cure cycle begins with full vacuum to expand the air bubbles so they move laterally between the plies. The pressure is applied to reduce the size of any voids left and drive remaining gases into solution in the resin. Blender scheduals are calculated to not remove to much resin.
On Monday, March 29, 2021, 1:30 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
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Re: Jim Patillo's Q-Tour is uploaded to YouTube
I got a lot out of it!
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Q1 Fuselage comes up
The fuselage of Q1 is coming up from the foam and the stuff is very sandy :-))
Some picture from the progress ..... Eugen
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Re: Airheart
Mike,
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Found that master cylinder (original Hurst/Airheart) from my kit. Contact me offline with your rural dog-sled delivery address and I will ship it to you. Cheers, Jay
On Mar 29, 2021, at 7:22 PM, Mike Steinsland <MIKESKUSTOMS@...> wrote:
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Re: Airheart
Mike Steinsland
That's what I found out ....hoping someone like Jay has one they're not going to use otherwise I'll look at some other go kart master cylinder like MCP
On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 8:06 PM Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:
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Fire Extinguisher location
Here is my fire extinguisher location. The newer extinguisher is a bit taller than the original. Just measured twice and cut out a box and matching hole and glassed it in place. Not rocket science.
Bruce ____________________________________________________________ Choose to be safer online. Opt-in to Cyber Safety with NortonLifeLock. Plans starting as low as $6.95 per month.* https://store.netzero.net/account/showService.do?serviceId=nz-nLifeLock&utm_source=mktg&utm_medium=taglines&utm_campaign=nzlifelk_launch&utm_content=tag995&promoCode=A23457
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Re: Airheart
Horde your parts, the factory is no longer making our stuff. Maybe knockoffs are out there. Sam
On Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 1:36 PM Mike Steinsland <MIKESKUSTOMS@...> wrote: Hi guys,
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Re: Resin volume placed on foam
Both are used..slight vacuum and pressure are applied using pre-pregs. It's called porosity in the industry lingo. The layups are guiding the mechanic by laser light. They don't have time to mark shit with tape or other.. there are also cutting programs..
Gerber machines are the popular one. So 40 or 50 techs are all working in the Oopma Loompa fashion in a freezing cold room. They also do the peel ply layup as part of the schedule before bag and vacuum.
The autoclave cure programming is based on the type of resin (how fast it reaches a rubbery condition from a runny thin viscosity) and the ply schedule (numbers of) and type and shape of core, and if film adhesive is used (almost always is used now). Some
plys are also bonding (such as electrical) for lightning strike..imbedded in those carbon fiber pre-preg is thin copper mesh. Use the wrong program and the autoclave will for sure create junk parts. All that previous work is lost effort..and a ton of money
tossed out as well.
I don't know about spacecraft composites (Charlie does..he worked in that world for years) but aluminum mesh was the standard many years ago in aircraft. The inherent problems of galvanic corrosion using aluminum mesh for strike path made the copper mesh
preferred, and because airplanes in general are considered a reusable machine, they (hopefully) live many decades. Rockets and missiles are (until recently) good for one trip..and weight is SUPER critical to even make the mission possible. Copper is heavier
and more expensive but delams are not good in any load bearing structure.
If your rich you don't care if the airplane costs 30 grand more..better it not break or go POOF! in a lightning strike.
In some processes we also used pre autoclave ovens...where vacuum only was used. Possibly, in the home shop environment, this process is usable (no foams...so other than layup only parts, now your into buying core and cutting that messy crap..better to just
buy flat panels already cured, just do the edge fill and insert potting yourself). The advantage of the pre-preg is 100% you know the resin is saturated. BUT..it is a PAIN to deal with. Clean room and working with gloved hands ALL the time..and freezers...gotta
have them to keep the temp low until it is time to "shake n bake'. Humidity too..you have to control all parts of the work environment.
The bottom line is; you are correct that all of this background is only superficially related to what is reasonably possible in the home shop environment, Rob. It is correct that bleeder that is "thirsty" will draw your layup dry.
Even if I had the money to build what is required to do these same processes, I doubt my neighbors would appreciate it if they knew I had something like this next door.
 
Years ago my desk was about 50 paces from this same Autoclave when I was on Contract as R&D Manufacturing Engineering on the Beech Premier program in Plant 3.
It go Boom!!! Thanks be to God no deaths..but serious injury was still the result.
Most of the Starship major parts were cured in this same Autoclave. This one is considered a baby now...think about how big the Airbus and Spirit/Boeing Autoclaves are!!
Vern
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Rob de Bie <robdebie@...>
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 3:30 PM To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam I really like this as a thought experiment. And I see some parallels with autoclave processes. In an
autoclave you can apply pressure without the vacuum turned on. Therefore this is sort of similar to what you propose. I haven't figured out yet whether this leads to different amount of resin flowing into the bleeder - but my gut feeling says it will have a considerable effect. And now that I'm thinking about it, a typical autoclave pressure *could* make the resin absorb small air bubbles. At least that's what I see in resin casting, using polyurethane resin. In that process one can take one of two very different routes: vacuum casting or pressure casting. In former you 'pull out' the air bubbles, in the latter the pressure makes the resin absorb the air bubbles. Until tonight I hadn't seen the parallel. But it has nothing to with building a Q1 or Q2 :-) Rob On 27 Mar 2021 21:40, Bruce Crain wrote: > Just a thought. Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the outside > bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave? It > would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group think and > does any one have any experience to share about that? Just thinking outside the box. > Bruce Crain > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@...> > To: main@Q-List.groups.io > Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700 > > Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make > composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum bagging, > peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot of noise > from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c> > If the link doesn't work search YouTube for > > > Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks > > > >
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Re: Airheart
Mike Steinsland
Great Let me know
On Mon., Mar. 29, 2021, 2:50 p.m. Jay Scheevel, <jay@...> wrote:
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Extinguisher
gbrighton@...
Had Smoke Smell in Flt last wk ... Landed ok .. and found Auto Pilot Servo circuit Board Cooked ... luckily stayed within its metal container .. photo from the top shows some of the evidence ... stuff happens !!
Cheers, Graham This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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Re: Resin volume placed on foam
Rob de Bie
I really like this as a thought experiment. And I see some parallels with autoclave processes. In an autoclave you can apply pressure without the vacuum turned on. Therefore this is sort of similar to what you propose. I haven't figured out yet whether this leads to different amount of resin flowing into the bleeder - but my gut feeling says it will have a considerable effect.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
And now that I'm thinking about it, a typical autoclave pressure *could* make the resin absorb small air bubbles. At least that's what I see in resin casting, using polyurethane resin. In that process one can take one of two very different routes: vacuum casting or pressure casting. In former you 'pull out' the air bubbles, in the latter the pressure makes the resin absorb the air bubbles. Until tonight I hadn't seen the parallel. But it has nothing to with building a Q1 or Q2 :-) Rob
On 27 Mar 2021 21:40, Bruce Crain wrote:
Just a thought. Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the outside bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave? It would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group think and does any one have any experience to share about that? Just thinking outside the box.
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