Date   

Re: Q200 at Velocity Factory

Adam hied
 

I’m based at Sebastian, and I’ve been talking to Riley swing, he said he’s hoping to be flying it soon.

Cordially,

Adam Hied

www.adamhied.com - dragonfly experimental airplane blog 

On Mar 31, 2021, at 8:26 AM, Cody <cody.craig1985@...> wrote:


Wasn't this aircraft on barnstormers back in 2019?


Re: Q200 at Velocity Factory

 

Wasn't this aircraft on barnstormers back in 2019?


Re: Q200 at Velocity Factory

Rick Hole
 

When Scott re-acquired his N1711Q I helped repair the tailbone and built a new instrument panel for it.
Thanks for 
Rick Hole

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:59 AM Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here’s a couple of pics from a video Velocity posted yesterday.  Good looking Q200 registered to Brian Swings.



Corbin

--
Corbin
N121CG






Q200 at Velocity Factory

Corbin
 

Here’s a couple of pics from a video Velocity posted yesterday. Good looking Q200 registered to Brian Swings.



Corbin

--
Corbin
N121CG


Jim Patillo canopy

Nick Wright
 

Jim,

     Can you send detailed pictures of how your canopy is hinged? Mine was hinged very similar, but didn't work out very well. I'm looking for alternatives.

Thanks,
NW
N350JD

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:36 AM Jerry Marstall <jerrylm1986@...> wrote:
How wonderful. Spreading the thrill.
Jerry 

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 6:38 PM Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
This our flight back from Auburn to the SF Bay Area Sunday. Sophia loves flying in Baby!  I have 2 sons 2 daughters,
8 grand daughters and one grand son who’s the youngest. They have all flown in my plane. I love being a Poppa. 

Jim
N 46JP Q200





Sent from Outer Space


Re: Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!

Jerry Marstall
 

How wonderful. Spreading the thrill.
Jerry 

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 6:38 PM Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
This our flight back from Auburn to the SF Bay Area Sunday. Sophia loves flying in Baby!  I have 2 sons 2 daughters,
8 grand daughters and one grand son who’s the youngest. They have all flown in my plane. I love being a Poppa. 

Jim
N 46JP Q200





Sent from Outer Space


Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up

Robert Cringely
 

My engine is 55kg all-up.The titanium parts hardly weigh anything. There are Q1s with 1835 VWs that weigh 75 kg, so I'm not too bothered. Keeping the CG in the right place is a matter of adding weight in the tail. I've converted to a heavier Aviation Products tailwheel with a rod spring for most of that. The lady in Ojai who makes those tailwheels (it's just one lady, all on her own, in her late father's old airplane factory kind of like a flying Miss Havisham from Great Expectations), she'll sell me the correct spring to dial it in when I finish carving my prop, which I should have done long ago, but it's my first three-blader and pretty daunting. There's a reason why only Craig Catto carves three-bladed wood props.


On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 2:44 AM Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...> wrote:
Rob,

wow, a Diesel with a turbo!!! Sounds awesome!! Did you have a youtube channel or a website/facebok with more information? Its the weight about 55kg all In or just the engine? 

A other great engine manufacturer is Lifan, they copied the B&S engine with some improvements and a EFI system too. Please find below a link: https://www.lifancanada.ca/27hp-lifan-engine-elect-starter-2v78f-3.html

I got my information about the B&S conversation from Kevin Armstrong, he has build one of the engine (no, it was two after the first blow up based on a value/oil issue) on his trike. Please find below the link on you tube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy6Tg3ssJZc&t=105s

At first he chose the B&S Vanguard with 679cc and the second engine is B&S with 800cc. He did it all by him self and the upgrades comes from the US. The weight of the engine was all in around 30kg, so we are in the range that the Q1 could handle it.

If you want get in touch with kevin, send him a message and he will for sure share with you all the information/drawings/test result and soon.

Best regards

Eugen 


Am 30.03.2021 um 22:48 schrieb Robert Cringely <bob@...>:

I like the idea of using the Briggs & Stratton Vanguard engine, especially since there is so much racing experience and aftermarket parts. I am installing a new engine in my Q1 and going in a similar -- though not identical -- direction. I'm replacing the 22-hp Super-Onan with a pretty generic two-cylinder 870 cc Chinese direct-injection diesel rated for 25 hp at 3600 rpm. I'm turbocharging the engine with a tiny IHI turbo (the smallest sold) and an intercooler. I'm aiming for a turbo-normalized 30 hp, which should give me some really interesting performance numbers at my 17,999-foot cruise altitude.

The engine is all aluminum and air-cooled. I've removed a bunch of extra parts and material like the OEM exhaust, intake, and fuel tank and have the weight down around 55 kg. The new parts are mainly titanium, but that's because we use titanium at my day job and have a welder who does beautiful work. Guessing that the crankshaft is a casting, I'm installing a 1-to-1 belt drive to isolate the prop loads while raising the thrust line. The engine, turbo, and intercooler come from China, the redrive is from India, so the complete powerplant (minus prop) was under $2000 including shipping.

I built the new engine so I can commute to work in San Luis Obispo, CA. My company is right at the airport there and I can even park inside. Presently I fly my Thorp T-18, which takes about 90 minutes for the 222 nm flight from Santa Rosa. I don't expect the Q to go any faster (or slower) than that, but hope to drop the fuel consumption from 10 gallons down to three. Even at 10 gallons it is cheaper to fly than to drive my car, in part because I skip the toll on the Golden Gate Bridge. 



Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Sam Hoskins
 

That's very interesting, thanks for sharing. 

Sam 

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 12:58 AM Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...> wrote:
Sam,
I use Compoflex 150 SB as peel ply and it’s very useful, much more than the Standard. Please find below the link: https://www.fibertex.com/products/composites/compoflex-overview/compoflex-sb150

Eugen

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 30.03.2021 um 23:52 schrieb Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>:


Eugene, those look like nice parts. Did you use peel ply? I don't see any. It's very useful and explained in the education section of the plans. 

Sam 

On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 5:29 AM Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...> wrote:
The missing Picture of Bulkhead 153.7 and AFT Canopy Bulkhead, ups. Sorry.  


Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up

Eugen Pilarski
 

Rob,

wow, a Diesel with a turbo!!! Sounds awesome!! Did you have a youtube channel or a website/facebok with more information? Its the weight about 55kg all In or just the engine? 

A other great engine manufacturer is Lifan, they copied the B&S engine with some improvements and a EFI system too. Please find below a link: https://www.lifancanada.ca/27hp-lifan-engine-elect-starter-2v78f-3.html

I got my information about the B&S conversation from Kevin Armstrong, he has build one of the engine (no, it was two after the first blow up based on a value/oil issue) on his trike. Please find below the link on you tube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy6Tg3ssJZc&t=105s

At first he chose the B&S Vanguard with 679cc and the second engine is B&S with 800cc. He did it all by him self and the upgrades comes from the US. The weight of the engine was all in around 30kg, so we are in the range that the Q1 could handle it.

If you want get in touch with kevin, send him a message and he will for sure share with you all the information/drawings/test result and soon.

Best regards

Eugen 


Am 30.03.2021 um 22:48 schrieb Robert Cringely <bob@...>:

I like the idea of using the Briggs & Stratton Vanguard engine, especially since there is so much racing experience and aftermarket parts. I am installing a new engine in my Q1 and going in a similar -- though not identical -- direction. I'm replacing the 22-hp Super-Onan with a pretty generic two-cylinder 870 cc Chinese direct-injection diesel rated for 25 hp at 3600 rpm. I'm turbocharging the engine with a tiny IHI turbo (the smallest sold) and an intercooler. I'm aiming for a turbo-normalized 30 hp, which should give me some really interesting performance numbers at my 17,999-foot cruise altitude.

The engine is all aluminum and air-cooled. I've removed a bunch of extra parts and material like the OEM exhaust, intake, and fuel tank and have the weight down around 55 kg. The new parts are mainly titanium, but that's because we use titanium at my day job and have a welder who does beautiful work. Guessing that the crankshaft is a casting, I'm installing a 1-to-1 belt drive to isolate the prop loads while raising the thrust line. The engine, turbo, and intercooler come from China, the redrive is from India, so the complete powerplant (minus prop) was under $2000 including shipping.

I built the new engine so I can commute to work in San Luis Obispo, CA. My company is right at the airport there and I can even park inside. Presently I fly my Thorp T-18, which takes about 90 minutes for the 222 nm flight from Santa Rosa. I don't expect the Q to go any faster (or slower) than that, but hope to drop the fuel consumption from 10 gallons down to three. Even at 10 gallons it is cheaper to fly than to drive my car, in part because I skip the toll on the Golden Gate Bridge. 



Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Eugen Pilarski
 

Wow. Great story and pictures!! Did not think that so many composite experts are here in this group. Great. 

When I look at what you have worked with in your career in the field of composites, especially with these large furnaces, I feel really small with my little vacuum bag and the electric blankets.  :-))  I think the Q1 would fit entirely in one of these ovens and many more......

Eugen 

Am 31.03.2021 um 02:01 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

That’s a cool discovery, Charlie. Also, glad you are going to get the “Milk Stool” back in the air soon. 
 
Cheers,
Jay
 
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 5:36 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
Vern,
 
You cannot use a vacuum bag for a repair on orbit. No consolidation without a column of air pushing on it. We discussed on orbit composite repairs with Thiokol and Scotty Horowitz after the second shuttle loss. The silicon carbide / carbon leading edge had a hole in it from ice impact. It would take a lot of development but Space shuttle is gone.
 
 
<image001.jpg>
 
I found two of my composite Filament Wound Case segments in Tucson a couple of weeks ago while visiting the museum. The forward 3 segments are 1/2” D6AC steel but the back two are what we produced at Hercules 1985-1986 RIP Challenger.

Charlie
 
P.S. found a replacement engine for the Tri-Pacer and working on installing.



 

On Tuesday, March 30, 2021, 3:28 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

 The ideal is zero void. Q.A. has to have some standard for acceptance or rejection. Engineering margin calculations take into consideration that zero void is not possible, although in zero G/ zero atmosphere manufacturing we might be much closer to the ideal. I probably will not live long enough to see it but most M.E. have already thought of what limits would be revised in such an environment. Perhaps some of you in your twenties could..I hope so!!   
 
 Theoretically.. glass fiber would be nearly infinitely strong in tension if there were no surface stress risers on the fibers. Not possible in todays world of course. 
 
 As I mentioned once before..nano techs were in the works to really make some advancements but the almighty Euro/Dollar/Yen or whatever money exchange chosen stepped in and made "no joy" for those events to happen.
 
 Check out "bucky balls" on the Net if your curious. Anyone that ever made this actually happen would be wealthy beyond imagination.     
 
Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Rob de Bie <robdebie@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 4:35 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam 
 

Thanks for the explanation! I never did autoclaving myself, although I prepared some fiber-metal 
laminates to be autoclaved.

A related question: AFAIK, a low percentage of voids (below 3-4%) has hardly any effect on the 
material properties. Would it be right to say that it is then more an indicator for quality control?

Rob

On 30 Mar 2021 11:57, One Sky Dog via groups.io wrote:
> Rob,
> 
> In an auto clave the usual cure cycle begins with full vacuum to expand the air bubbles so they move 
> laterally between the plies. The pressure is applied to reduce the size of any voids left and drive 
> remaining gases into solution in the resin.
> 
> Blender scheduals are calculated to not remove to much resin.
> 
> 
> Charlie
> 
> My you tube channel
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg 
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg>
> 
> On Monday, March 29, 2021, 1:30 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> 
>     I really like this as a thought experiment. And I see some parallels with autoclave processes.
>     In an
>     autoclave you can apply pressure without the vacuum turned on. Therefore this is sort of similar to
>     what you propose. I haven't figured out yet whether this leads to different amount of resin flowing
>     into the bleeder - but my gut feeling says it will have a considerable effect.
> 
>     And now that I'm thinking about it, a typical autoclave pressure *could* make the resin absorb
>     small
>     air bubbles. At least that's what I see in resin casting, using polyurethane resin. In that process
>     one can take one of two very different routes: vacuum casting or pressure casting. In former you
>     'pull out' the air bubbles, in the latter the pressure makes the resin absorb the air bubbles.
>     Until
>     tonight I hadn't seen the parallel. But it has nothing to with building a Q1 or Q2 :-)
> 
>     Rob
> 
>     On 27 Mar 2021 21:40, Bruce Crain wrote:
>      > Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the
>     outside
>      > bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It
>      > would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group
>     think and
>      > does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
>      > Bruce Crain
>      >
>      > ---------- Original Message ----------
>      > From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@... <mailto:smgrant@...>>
>      > To: main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>
>      > Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
>      > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700
>      >
>      > Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make
>      > composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum
>     bagging,
>      > peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot
>     of noise
>      > from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
>     <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c ><https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c>>
>      > If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
>      >
>      >
>      >          Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 






Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Eugen Pilarski
 

Sam,
I use Compoflex 150 SB as peel ply and it’s very useful, much more than the Standard. Please find below the link: https://www.fibertex.com/products/composites/compoflex-overview/compoflex-sb150

Eugen

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 30.03.2021 um 23:52 schrieb Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>:


Eugene, those look like nice parts. Did you use peel ply? I don't see any. It's very useful and explained in the education section of the plans. 

Sam 

On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 5:29 AM Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...> wrote:
The missing Picture of Bulkhead 153.7 and AFT Canopy Bulkhead, ups. Sorry.  


Re: Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!

Jim Patillo
 

Thank you guys, it’s intense with 13 females in close proximity.
 Sophia hand flew it the last two trips until I turned the autopilot back on. We’re still workin’ on straight and level 😊. She likes + g’s for some reason. I don’t like -g’s. I couldn’t take it any more as it was making me nauseous.  Just sayin’  Keep building your planes. Never give up! Do something every day if possible. Get help. It will be one of the coolest things you will ever do. Just sayin’.

Jim


Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 5:20:33 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!
 
Beautiful family Jim. Great job.
Dave D


On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:38 PM, Jim Patillo
<Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
This our flight back from Auburn to the SF Bay Area Sunday. Sophia loves flying in Baby!  I have 2 sons 2 daughters,
8 grand daughters and one grand son who’s the youngest. They have all flown in my plane. I love being a Poppa. 

Jim
N 46JP Q200





Sent from Outer Space


Re: Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!

Jim Patillo
 

Hey Bruce, 
Thanks Buddy. Ain’t it fun. 

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 6:53:49 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!
 
Sweet!  An heir apparent!  No not now!  Later gator!
Bruce

Please note: message attached

From: "Jim Patillo" <Logistics_engineering@...>
To: "main@q-list.groups.io" <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 22:38:19 +0000




Re: Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!

Jim Patillo
 

Sam, Sophia really is an exceptional kid. She remembers everything you tell her, as in “photographic memory”’ She told me a couple weeks ago flying with me is the most fun she’s ever had. That’s from an almost 12 year old point of view. 😊

Jim

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Sam Kittle <skittle@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 7:29:03 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!
 
Beautiful pictures Jim, Sophia is growing up fast.

Sam


On Mar 30, 2021, at 3:38 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_Engineering@...> wrote:


This our flight back from Auburn to the SF Bay Area Sunday. Sophia loves flying in Baby!  I have 2 sons 2 daughters,
8 grand daughters and one grand son who’s the youngest. They have all flown in my plane. I love being a Poppa. 

Jim
N 46JP Q200

<IMG_6423.jpg>


<IMG_6422.PNG>


Sent from Outer Space


Re: Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!

Sam Kittle
 

Beautiful pictures Jim, Sophia is growing up fast.

Sam


On Mar 30, 2021, at 3:38 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_Engineering@...> wrote:


This our flight back from Auburn to the SF Bay Area Sunday. Sophia loves flying in Baby!  I have 2 sons 2 daughters,
8 grand daughters and one grand son who’s the youngest. They have all flown in my plane. I love being a Poppa. 

Jim
N 46JP Q200

<IMG_6423.jpg>


<IMG_6422.PNG>


Sent from Outer Space


Re: Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!

Bruce Crain
 

Sweet!  An heir apparent!  No not now!  Later gator!
Bruce

Please note: message attached

From: "Jim Patillo" <Logistics_engineering@...>
To: "main@q-list.groups.io" <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 22:38:19 +0000




Re: Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!

John Hoxie
 

Way cool, Jim.


On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 4:38 PM, Jim Patillo
<Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
This our flight back from Auburn to the SF Bay Area Sunday. Sophia loves flying in Baby!  I have 2 sons 2 daughters,
8 grand daughters and one grand son who’s the youngest. They have all flown in my plane. I love being a Poppa. 

Jim
N 46JP Q200





Sent from Outer Space


Re: Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!

Dave Dugas
 

Beautiful family Jim. Great job.
Dave D


On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:38 PM, Jim Patillo
<Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
This our flight back from Auburn to the SF Bay Area Sunday. Sophia loves flying in Baby!  I have 2 sons 2 daughters,
8 grand daughters and one grand son who’s the youngest. They have all flown in my plane. I love being a Poppa. 

Jim
N 46JP Q200





Sent from Outer Space


Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Jay Scheevel
 

That’s a cool discovery, Charlie. Also, glad you are going to get the “Milk Stool” back in the air soon.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 5:36 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

Vern,

 

You cannot use a vacuum bag for a repair on orbit. No consolidation without a column of air pushing on it. We discussed on orbit composite repairs with Thiokol and Scotty Horowitz after the second shuttle loss. The silicon carbide / carbon leading edge had a hole in it from ice impact. It would take a lot of development but Space shuttle is gone.

 

 

Inline image

 

I found two of my composite Filament Wound Case segments in Tucson a couple of weeks ago while visiting the museum. The forward 3 segments are 1/2” D6AC steel but the back two are what we produced at Hercules 1985-1986 RIP Challenger.


Charlie

 

P.S. found a replacement engine for the Tri-Pacer and working on installing.



 

On Tuesday, March 30, 2021, 3:28 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

 The ideal is zero void. Q.A. has to have some standard for acceptance or rejection. Engineering margin calculations take into consideration that zero void is not possible, although in zero G/ zero atmosphere manufacturing we might be much closer to the ideal. I probably will not live long enough to see it but most M.E. have already thought of what limits would be revised in such an environment. Perhaps some of you in your twenties could..I hope so!!   

 

 Theoretically.. glass fiber would be nearly infinitely strong in tension if there were no surface stress risers on the fibers. Not possible in todays world of course. 

 

 As I mentioned once before..nano techs were in the works to really make some advancements but the almighty Euro/Dollar/Yen or whatever money exchange chosen stepped in and made "no joy" for those events to happen.

 

 Check out "bucky balls" on the Net if your curious. Anyone that ever made this actually happen would be wealthy beyond imagination.     

 

Vern


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Rob de Bie <robdebie@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 4:35 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

Thanks for the explanation! I never did autoclaving myself, although I prepared some fiber-metal
laminates to be autoclaved.

A related question: AFAIK, a low percentage of voids (below 3-4%) has hardly any effect on the
material properties. Would it be right to say that it is then more an indicator for quality control?

Rob

On 30 Mar 2021 11:57, One Sky Dog via groups.io wrote:
> Rob,
>
> In an auto clave the usual cure cycle begins with full vacuum to expand the air bubbles so they move
> laterally between the plies. The pressure is applied to reduce the size of any voids left and drive
> remaining gases into solution in the resin.
>
> Blender scheduals are calculated to not remove to much resin.
>
>
> Charlie
>
> My you tube channel
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg>
>
> On Monday, March 29, 2021, 1:30 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
>
>     I really like this as a thought experiment. And I see some parallels with autoclave processes.
>     In an
>     autoclave you can apply pressure without the vacuum turned on. Therefore this is sort of similar to
>     what you propose. I haven't figured out yet whether this leads to different amount of resin flowing
>     into the bleeder - but my gut feeling says it will have a considerable effect.
>
>     And now that I'm thinking about it, a typical autoclave pressure *could* make the resin absorb
>     small
>     air bubbles. At least that's what I see in resin casting, using polyurethane resin. In that process
>     one can take one of two very different routes: vacuum casting or pressure casting. In former you
>     'pull out' the air bubbles, in the latter the pressure makes the resin absorb the air bubbles.
>     Until
>     tonight I hadn't seen the parallel. But it has nothing to with building a Q1 or Q2 :-)
>
>     Rob
>
>     On 27 Mar 2021 21:40, Bruce Crain wrote:
>      > Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the
>     outside
>      > bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It
>      > would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group
>     think and
>      > does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
>      > Bruce Crain
>      >
>      > ---------- Original Message ----------
>      > From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@... <mailto:smgrant@...>>
>      > To: main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>
>      > Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
>      > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700
>      >
>      > Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make
>      > composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum
>     bagging,
>      > peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot
>     of noise
>      > from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
>     <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c ><https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c>>
>      > If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
>      >
>      >
>      >          Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Resin volume placed on foam

One Sky Dog
 

Vern,

Until then it is process control. Build quality in you cannot inspect it in later.

Charlie



On Tuesday, March 30, 2021, 3:46 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

 You bring up good point, Rob.  The $200 million dollar question. What is the best Inspection? 
Thermography? Water Ultrasound? X-ray? Nordam found out the hard way that dealing with Gulfstream
can cost a lot...bankruptcy of an entire division...when that question is not fully agreed on first (IN WRITING).  

 For us the reliable old Silver Dollar ring is good enough..but the on-going battle for Inspection has yet to be
fully resolved. Yet another place where fortunes can be made. Whomever invents the final standard for composite
construction Inspection will live very comfortably.

Vern   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Rob de Bie <robdebie@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 4:35 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
Thanks for the explanation! I never did autoclaving myself, although I prepared some fiber-metal
laminates to be autoclaved.

A related question: AFAIK, a low percentage of voids (below 3-4%) has hardly any effect on the
material properties. Would it be right to say that it is then more an indicator for quality control?

Rob

On 30 Mar 2021 11:57, One Sky Dog via groups.io wrote:
> Rob,
>
> In an auto clave the usual cure cycle begins with full vacuum to expand the air bubbles so they move
> laterally between the plies. The pressure is applied to reduce the size of any voids left and drive
> remaining gases into solution in the resin.
>
> Blender scheduals are calculated to not remove to much resin.
>
>
> Charlie
>
> My you tube channel
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg>
>
> On Monday, March 29, 2021, 1:30 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
>
>     I really like this as a thought experiment. And I see some parallels with autoclave processes.
>     In an
>     autoclave you can apply pressure without the vacuum turned on. Therefore this is sort of similar to
>     what you propose. I haven't figured out yet whether this leads to different amount of resin flowing
>     into the bleeder - but my gut feeling says it will have a considerable effect.
>
>     And now that I'm thinking about it, a typical autoclave pressure *could* make the resin absorb
>     small
>     air bubbles. At least that's what I see in resin casting, using polyurethane resin. In that process
>     one can take one of two very different routes: vacuum casting or pressure casting. In former you
>     'pull out' the air bubbles, in the latter the pressure makes the resin absorb the air bubbles.
>     Until
>     tonight I hadn't seen the parallel. But it has nothing to with building a Q1 or Q2 :-)
>
>     Rob
>
>     On 27 Mar 2021 21:40, Bruce Crain wrote:
>      > Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the
>     outside
>      > bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It
>      > would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group
>     think and
>      > does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
>      > Bruce Crain
>      >
>      > ---------- Original Message ----------
>      > From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@... <mailto:smgrant@...>>
>      > To: main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>
>      > Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
>      > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700
>      >
>      > Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make
>      > composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum
>     bagging,
>      > peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot
>     of noise
>      > from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
>     <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c ><https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c>>
>      > If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
>      >
>      >
>      >          Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>
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