Date   

Re: Resin volume placed on foam

smeshno1@...
 

 X-ray tho expensive is still the mark to meet. Sono and Thermography are "so so" as you say, but in general they are what is used in factory I've been at..  That said..we also tap tested a lot of parts (non comb parts).  Q.A. has a hammer used for this..basically the same design as the doctor uses on a knee reflex test. 

 No need for a special tool tho.. a Silver Dollar works just as well. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Rob de Bie <robdebie@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 6:25 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
In our university lab we had a large 'C-scan' ultrasound-through-water scanner. From what I saw, the
results still needed a lot of interpretation. It wasn't easy-peasy.. But I agree that it's probably
the least worst solution.

Rob

On 31 Mar 2021 00:51, Cody wrote:
> Are we referring to the penetration factor? Wouldn't ultrasound be the most reliable since the
> substrate is non-metallic and not uniform in the first place? Unless it's honeycomb.
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 5:46 PM <smeshno1@... <mailto:smeshno1@...>> wrote:
>
>       You bring up good point, Rob.  The $200 million dollar question. What is the best Inspection?
>     Thermography? Water Ultrasound? X-ray? Nordam found out the hard way that dealing with Gulfstream
>     can cost a lot...bankruptcy of an entire division...when that question is not fully agreed on
>     first (IN WRITING).
>
>       For us the reliable old Silver Dollar ring is good enough..but the on-going battle for
>     Inspection has yet to be
>     fully resolved. Yet another place where fortunes can be made. Whomever invents the final
>     standard for composite
>     construction Inspection will live very comfortably.
>
>     Vern
>
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io> <main@Q-List.groups.io
>     <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>> on behalf of Rob de Bie <robdebie@...
>     <mailto:robdebie@...>>
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, March 30, 2021 4:35 PM
>     *To:* main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io> <main@Q-List.groups.io
>     <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
>     Thanks for the explanation! I never did autoclaving myself, although I prepared some fiber-metal
>     laminates to be autoclaved.
>
>     A related question: AFAIK, a low percentage of voids (below 3-4%) has hardly any effect on the
>     material properties. Would it be right to say that it is then more an indicator for quality control?
>
>     Rob
>
>     On 30 Mar 2021 11:57, One Sky Dog via groups.io <http://groups.io> wrote:
>     > Rob,
>     >
>     > In an auto clave the usual cure cycle begins with full vacuum to expand the air bubbles so they move
>     > laterally between the plies. The pressure is applied to reduce the size of any voids left and drive
>     > remaining gases into solution in the resin.
>     >
>     > Blender scheduals are calculated to not remove to much resin.
>     >
>     >
>     > Charlie
>     >
>     > My you tube channel
>     > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg
>     <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg>
>     > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg
>     <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg>>
>     >
>     > On Monday, March 29, 2021, 1:30 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@... <mailto:robdebie@...>> wrote:
>     >
>     >     I really like this as a thought experiment. And I see some parallels with autoclave processes.
>     >     In an
>     >     autoclave you can apply pressure without the vacuum turned on. Therefore this is sort of similar to
>     >     what you propose. I haven't figured out yet whether this leads to different amount of resin flowing
>     >     into the bleeder - but my gut feeling says it will have a considerable effect.
>     >
>     >     And now that I'm thinking about it, a typical autoclave pressure *could* make the resin absorb
>     >     small
>     >     air bubbles. At least that's what I see in resin casting, using polyurethane resin. In that process
>     >     one can take one of two very different routes: vacuum casting or pressure casting. In former you
>     >     'pull out' the air bubbles, in the latter the pressure makes the resin absorb the air bubbles.
>     >     Until
>     >     tonight I hadn't seen the parallel. But it has nothing to with building a Q1 or Q2 :-)
>     >
>     >     Rob
>     >
>     >     On 27 Mar 2021 21:40, Bruce Crain wrote:
>     >      > Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the
>     >     outside
>     >      > bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It
>     >      > would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group
>     >     think and
>     >      > does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
>     >      > Bruce Crain
>     >      >
>     >      > ---------- Original Message ----------
>     >      > From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@... <mailto:smgrant@...> <mailto:smgrant@...
>     <mailto:smgrant@...>>>
>     >      > To: main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io> <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io
>     <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>>
>     >      > Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
>     >      > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700
>     >      >
>     >      > Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make
>     >      > composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum
>     >     bagging,
>     >      > peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot
>     >     of noise
>     >      > from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c>
>     >     <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c> ><https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
>     <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c> <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c>>>
>     >      > If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
>     >      >
>     >      >
>     >      >          Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks
>     >      >
>     >      >
>     >      >
>     >      >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Jay Scheevel
 

Hey Vern,

 

Back in the early 90’s I got to handle a piece of aerogel. This was a unique thing in that it had significant strength (not quite as strong as styrofoam), but almost no weight. My mind immediately started thinking about use as a core material.

 

In any case, I never hear about it anymore, so I don’t know what happened to that stuff. Seems like it would have had some application in spacecraft.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2021 4:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

 Plastic airplane geeks are naturally drawn to the Quickies. But I agree I have had the good 

fortune to learn from many at many different places in aviation, Eugen. That is not to 

say that real advancement is only in multi billion dollar environments. Not at all!  I strongly

feel the guy out in his Shop is a special part of aviation.   

 

 There are several people I wished I had been able to meet and learn from but cannot now since 

they are "gone West" as we pilots say. But I am grateful, and not one day in aviation has

passed I didn't learn something new.    

 

 The Tandem Wing design are odd looking airplanes, and it fits with our personalities I suppose. 😊 

 

 Charlie..good to read your Tri Pacer is back on track.  

 

 What I was thinking in space manufacturing are the possibilities in materials and processes 

not possible on terra firma (foam steel for instance..)  I dunno what is next..there are probably 

many innovations if we can just get established outside of gravity. 

 

 From now on the younger folks are going to have to work out all kinds of problems in 

space travel and colonization. I hope the spirit of innovation we had when we were 

younger is well and alive for the grads now moving into the various fields.      

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2021 4:13 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

Wow. Great story and pictures!! Did not think that so many composite experts are here in this group. Great. 

 

When I look at what you have worked with in your career in the field of composites, especially with these large furnaces, I feel really small with my little vacuum bag and the electric blankets.  :-))  I think the Q1 would fit entirely in one of these ovens and many more......

 

Eugen 



Am 31.03.2021 um 02:01 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

 

That’s a cool discovery, Charlie. Also, glad you are going to get the “Milk Stool” back in the air soon. 

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 5:36 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

Vern,

 

You cannot use a vacuum bag for a repair on orbit. No consolidation without a column of air pushing on it. We discussed on orbit composite repairs with Thiokol and Scotty Horowitz after the second shuttle loss. The silicon carbide / carbon leading edge had a hole in it from ice impact. It would take a lot of development but Space shuttle is gone.

 

 

<image001.jpg>

 

I found two of my composite Filament Wound Case segments in Tucson a couple of weeks ago while visiting the museum. The forward 3 segments are 1/2” D6AC steel but the back two are what we produced at Hercules 1985-1986 RIP Challenger.


Charlie

 

P.S. found a replacement engine for the Tri-Pacer and working on installing.


 

On Tuesday, March 30, 2021, 3:28 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

 The ideal is zero void. Q.A. has to have some standard for acceptance or rejection. Engineering margin calculations take into consideration that zero void is not possible, although in zero G/ zero atmosphere manufacturing we might be much closer to the ideal. I probably will not live long enough to see it but most M.E. have already thought of what limits would be revised in such an environment. Perhaps some of you in your twenties could..I hope so!!   

 

 Theoretically.. glass fiber would be nearly infinitely strong in tension if there were no surface stress risers on the fibers. Not possible in todays world of course. 

 

 As I mentioned once before..nano techs were in the works to really make some advancements but the almighty Euro/Dollar/Yen or whatever money exchange chosen stepped in and made "no joy" for those events to happen.

 

 Check out "bucky balls" on the Net if your curious. Anyone that ever made this actually happen would be wealthy beyond imagination.     

 

Vern


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Rob de Bie <robdebie@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 4:35 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam 

 

Thanks for the explanation! I never did autoclaving myself, although I prepared some fiber-metal 
laminates to be autoclaved.

A related question: AFAIK, a low percentage of voids (below 3-4%) has hardly any effect on the 
material properties. Would it be right to say that it is then more an indicator for quality control?

Rob

On 30 Mar 2021 11:57, One Sky Dog via groups.io wrote:
> Rob,
> 
> In an auto clave the usual cure cycle begins with full vacuum to expand the air bubbles so they move 
> laterally between the plies. The pressure is applied to reduce the size of any voids left and drive 
> remaining gases into solution in the resin.
> 
> Blender scheduals are calculated to not remove to much resin.
> 
> 
> Charlie
> 
> My you tube channel
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg 
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg>
> 
> On Monday, March 29, 2021, 1:30 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> 
>     I really like this as a thought experiment. And I see some parallels with autoclave processes.
>     In an
>     autoclave you can apply pressure without the vacuum turned on. Therefore this is sort of similar to
>     what you propose. I haven't figured out yet whether this leads to different amount of resin flowing
>     into the bleeder - but my gut feeling says it will have a considerable effect.
> 
>     And now that I'm thinking about it, a typical autoclave pressure *could* make the resin absorb
>     small
>     air bubbles. At least that's what I see in resin casting, using polyurethane resin. In that process
>     one can take one of two very different routes: vacuum casting or pressure casting. In former you
>     'pull out' the air bubbles, in the latter the pressure makes the resin absorb the air bubbles.
>     Until
>     tonight I hadn't seen the parallel. But it has nothing to with building a Q1 or Q2 :-)
> 
>     Rob
> 
>     On 27 Mar 2021 21:40, Bruce Crain wrote:
>      > Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the
>     outside
>      > bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It
>      > would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group
>     think and
>      > does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
>      > Bruce Crain
>      >
>      > ---------- Original Message ----------
>      > From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@... <mailto:smgrant@...>>
>      > To: main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>
>      > Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
>      > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700
>      >
>      > Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make
>      > composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum
>     bagging,
>      > peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot
>     of noise
>      > from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
>     <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c ><https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c>>
>      > If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
>      >
>      >
>      >          Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



 


Re: Q200 at Velocity Factory

Bruce Crain
 

I see Sonia (1953-2020) I am sorry Rick was she your wife?  Loves and blessings!
Bruce


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Rick Hole" <r.hole@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q200 at Velocity Factory
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 13:57:37 -0400

Riley and Wesley are Scott's sons.

Sonia (1953-2020) & Rick

 





Re: Resin volume placed on foam

smeshno1@...
 

 Plastic airplane geeks are naturally drawn to the Quickies. But I agree I have had the good 
fortune to learn from many at many different places in aviation, Eugen. That is not to 
say that real advancement is only in multi billion dollar environments. Not at all!  I strongly
feel the guy out in his Shop is a special part of aviation.   
 
 There are several people I wished I had been able to meet and learn from but cannot now since 
they are "gone West" as we pilots say. But I am grateful, and not one day in aviation has
passed I didn't learn something new.    

 The Tandem Wing design are odd looking airplanes, and it fits with our personalities I suppose. 😊 

 Charlie..good to read your Tri Pacer is back on track.  

 What I was thinking in space manufacturing are the possibilities in materials and processes 
not possible on terra firma (foam steel for instance..)  I dunno what is next..there are probably 
many innovations if we can just get established outside of gravity. 

 From now on the younger folks are going to have to work out all kinds of problems in 
space travel and colonization. I hope the spirit of innovation we had when we were 
younger is well and alive for the grads now moving into the various fields.      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2021 4:13 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
Wow. Great story and pictures!! Did not think that so many composite experts are here in this group. Great. 

When I look at what you have worked with in your career in the field of composites, especially with these large furnaces, I feel really small with my little vacuum bag and the electric blankets.  :-))  I think the Q1 would fit entirely in one of these ovens and many more......

Eugen 

Am 31.03.2021 um 02:01 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

That’s a cool discovery, Charlie. Also, glad you are going to get the “Milk Stool” back in the air soon. 
 
Cheers,
Jay
 
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 5:36 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
Vern,
 
You cannot use a vacuum bag for a repair on orbit. No consolidation without a column of air pushing on it. We discussed on orbit composite repairs with Thiokol and Scotty Horowitz after the second shuttle loss. The silicon carbide / carbon leading edge had a hole in it from ice impact. It would take a lot of development but Space shuttle is gone.
 
 
<image001.jpg>
 
I found two of my composite Filament Wound Case segments in Tucson a couple of weeks ago while visiting the museum. The forward 3 segments are 1/2” D6AC steel but the back two are what we produced at Hercules 1985-1986 RIP Challenger.

Charlie
 
P.S. found a replacement engine for the Tri-Pacer and working on installing.



 

On Tuesday, March 30, 2021, 3:28 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

 The ideal is zero void. Q.A. has to have some standard for acceptance or rejection. Engineering margin calculations take into consideration that zero void is not possible, although in zero G/ zero atmosphere manufacturing we might be much closer to the ideal. I probably will not live long enough to see it but most M.E. have already thought of what limits would be revised in such an environment. Perhaps some of you in your twenties could..I hope so!!   
 
 Theoretically.. glass fiber would be nearly infinitely strong in tension if there were no surface stress risers on the fibers. Not possible in todays world of course. 
 
 As I mentioned once before..nano techs were in the works to really make some advancements but the almighty Euro/Dollar/Yen or whatever money exchange chosen stepped in and made "no joy" for those events to happen.
 
 Check out "bucky balls" on the Net if your curious. Anyone that ever made this actually happen would be wealthy beyond imagination.     
 
Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Rob de Bie <robdebie@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 4:35 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam 
 

Thanks for the explanation! I never did autoclaving myself, although I prepared some fiber-metal 
laminates to be autoclaved.

A related question: AFAIK, a low percentage of voids (below 3-4%) has hardly any effect on the 
material properties. Would it be right to say that it is then more an indicator for quality control?

Rob

On 30 Mar 2021 11:57, One Sky Dog via groups.io wrote:
> Rob,
> 
> In an auto clave the usual cure cycle begins with full vacuum to expand the air bubbles so they move 
> laterally between the plies. The pressure is applied to reduce the size of any voids left and drive 
> remaining gases into solution in the resin.
> 
> Blender scheduals are calculated to not remove to much resin.
> 
> 
> Charlie
> 
> My you tube channel
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg 
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg>
> 
> On Monday, March 29, 2021, 1:30 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> 
>     I really like this as a thought experiment. And I see some parallels with autoclave processes.
>     In an
>     autoclave you can apply pressure without the vacuum turned on. Therefore this is sort of similar to
>     what you propose. I haven't figured out yet whether this leads to different amount of resin flowing
>     into the bleeder - but my gut feeling says it will have a considerable effect.
> 
>     And now that I'm thinking about it, a typical autoclave pressure *could* make the resin absorb
>     small
>     air bubbles. At least that's what I see in resin casting, using polyurethane resin. In that process
>     one can take one of two very different routes: vacuum casting or pressure casting. In former you
>     'pull out' the air bubbles, in the latter the pressure makes the resin absorb the air bubbles.
>     Until
>     tonight I hadn't seen the parallel. But it has nothing to with building a Q1 or Q2 :-)
> 
>     Rob
> 
>     On 27 Mar 2021 21:40, Bruce Crain wrote:
>      > Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the
>     outside
>      > bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It
>      > would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group
>     think and
>      > does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
>      > Bruce Crain
>      >
>      > ---------- Original Message ----------
>      > From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@... <mailto:smgrant@...>>
>      > To: main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>
>      > Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
>      > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700
>      >
>      > Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make
>      > composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum
>     bagging,
>      > peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot
>     of noise
>      > from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
>     <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c ><https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c>>
>      > If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
>      >
>      >
>      >          Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 






Re: Q200 at Velocity Factory

Rick Hole
 

Scott is Brian Scott Swing

Sonia (1953-2020) & Rick

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 2:52 PM Adam hied <hiedadam@...> wrote:
Well Riley is Duane’s grandson. Not sure who Riley’s dad is.

Cordially,

Adam Hied

www.adamhied.com - dragonfly experimental airplane blog 

On Mar 31, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:


Is Brian or Riley?? Scott's son?
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Rick Hole" <r.hole@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q200 at Velocity Factory
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 08:05:04 -0400

When Scott re-acquired his N1711Q I helped repair the tailbone and built a new instrument panel for it.
Thanks for 
Rick Hole

 

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:59 AM Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here’s a couple of pics from a video Velocity posted yesterday.  Good looking Q200 registered to Brian Swings.



Corbin

--
Corbin
N121CG






Re: Q200 at Velocity Factory

Adam hied
 

Well Riley is Duane’s grandson. Not sure who Riley’s dad is.

Cordially,

Adam Hied

www.adamhied.com - dragonfly experimental airplane blog 

On Mar 31, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:


Is Brian or Riley?? Scott's son?
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Rick Hole" <r.hole@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q200 at Velocity Factory
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 08:05:04 -0400

When Scott re-acquired his N1711Q I helped repair the tailbone and built a new instrument panel for it.
Thanks for 
Rick Hole

 

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:59 AM Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here’s a couple of pics from a video Velocity posted yesterday.  Good looking Q200 registered to Brian Swings.



Corbin

--
Corbin
N121CG






Re: Q200 at Velocity Factory

Rick Hole
 

Riley and Wesley are Scott's sons.

Sonia (1953-2020) & Rick




_._,_._,_



Re: Q200 at Velocity Factory

Bruce Crain
 

Is Brian or Riley?? Scott's son?
Bruce


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Rick Hole" <r.hole@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q200 at Velocity Factory
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 08:05:04 -0400

When Scott re-acquired his N1711Q I helped repair the tailbone and built a new instrument panel for it.
Thanks for 
Rick Hole

 

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:59 AM Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here’s a couple of pics from a video Velocity posted yesterday.  Good looking Q200 registered to Brian Swings.



Corbin

--
Corbin
N121CG






Re: Milk Stool and Dragonfly

One Sky Dog
 

Jay the chain of events started with a 1977 rubber oil line to the oil pressure gauge. I would never sign a condition inspection on my Dragonfly with a 40 year old rubber hose like multiple certified A&P AI’s did. 

A Cherokee in Idaho failed the spar inspection and it had a O-320 B2B 160 hp engine. My PA-22-150 Type certificate allows me to upgrade by serial number. I picked it up Monday. I have removed Cherokee stuff and starting to dress it up as a Tri-Pacer engine.

I need to get the Dragonfly out of Ogden this year! That 10% to finish the repair is taking longer , who would have thought?I will be following Bob north with my cargo trailer to Ogden. The OGD airport is a contentious place these days I need a bigger space than the T Hangar I am renting for an exorbitant price to completely move out of Utah. I am trying to rearrange stuff to try and have a hangar built in the future.

Everyone at Benson likes the “milk stool” even the RV 200 mph plus guy said it is kinda growing on him. It will be nice to get it in the air for the dirt strips around here not a Super Cub but better STOL than a Dragonfly. More than adequate for recreational backcountry airplane camping.

Inline image

My new Benson friends and me on the Wilcox Playa one of six dry lake basins with no outlet. Easy to get stuck in the mud if it is too wet. I have been getting right seat flying time in a Cherokee 140 while the Tri-Pacer repair solution is coming together.

On Tuesday, March 30, 2021, 5:01 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

That’s a cool discovery, Charlie. Also, glad you are going to get the “Milk Stool” back in the air soon.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 5:36 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

Vern,

 

You cannot use a vacuum bag for a repair on orbit. No consolidation without a column of air pushing on it. We discussed on orbit composite repairs with Thiokol and Scotty Horowitz after the second shuttle loss. The silicon carbide / carbon leading edge had a hole in it from ice impact. It would take a lot of development but Space shuttle is gone.

 

 

Inline image

 

I found two of my composite Filament Wound Case segments in Tucson a couple of weeks ago while visiting the museum. The forward 3 segments are 1/2” D6AC steel but the back two are what we produced at Hercules 1985-1986 RIP Challenger.


Charlie

 

P.S. found a replacement engine for the Tri-Pacer and working on installing.



 

On Tuesday, March 30, 2021, 3:28 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

 The ideal is zero void. Q.A. has to have some standard for acceptance or rejection. Engineering margin calculations take into consideration that zero void is not possible, although in zero G/ zero atmosphere manufacturing we might be much closer to the ideal. I probably will not live long enough to see it but most M.E. have already thought of what limits would be revised in such an environment. Perhaps some of you in your twenties could..I hope so!!   

 

 Theoretically.. glass fiber would be nearly infinitely strong in tension if there were no surface stress risers on the fibers. Not possible in todays world of course. 

 

 As I mentioned once before..nano techs were in the works to really make some advancements but the almighty Euro/Dollar/Yen or whatever money exchange chosen stepped in and made "no joy" for those events to happen.

 

 Check out "bucky balls" on the Net if your curious. Anyone that ever made this actually happen would be wealthy beyond imagination.     

 

Vern


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Rob de Bie <robdebie@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 4:35 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

Thanks for the explanation! I never did autoclaving myself, although I prepared some fiber-metal
laminates to be autoclaved.

A related question: AFAIK, a low percentage of voids (below 3-4%) has hardly any effect on the
material properties. Would it be right to say that it is then more an indicator for quality control?

Rob

On 30 Mar 2021 11:57, One Sky Dog via groups.io wrote:
> Rob,
>
> In an auto clave the usual cure cycle begins with full vacuum to expand the air bubbles so they move
> laterally between the plies. The pressure is applied to reduce the size of any voids left and drive
> remaining gases into solution in the resin.
>
> Blender scheduals are calculated to not remove to much resin.
>
>
> Charlie
>
> My you tube channel
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg>
>
> On Monday, March 29, 2021, 1:30 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
>
>     I really like this as a thought experiment. And I see some parallels with autoclave processes.
>     In an
>     autoclave you can apply pressure without the vacuum turned on. Therefore this is sort of similar to
>     what you propose. I haven't figured out yet whether this leads to different amount of resin flowing
>     into the bleeder - but my gut feeling says it will have a considerable effect.
>
>     And now that I'm thinking about it, a typical autoclave pressure *could* make the resin absorb
>     small
>     air bubbles. At least that's what I see in resin casting, using polyurethane resin. In that process
>     one can take one of two very different routes: vacuum casting or pressure casting. In former you
>     'pull out' the air bubbles, in the latter the pressure makes the resin absorb the air bubbles.
>     Until
>     tonight I hadn't seen the parallel. But it has nothing to with building a Q1 or Q2 :-)
>
>     Rob
>
>     On 27 Mar 2021 21:40, Bruce Crain wrote:
>      > Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the
>     outside
>      > bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It
>      > would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group
>     think and
>      > does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
>      > Bruce Crain
>      >
>      > ---------- Original Message ----------
>      > From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@... <mailto:smgrant@...>>
>      > To: main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>
>      > Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
>      > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700
>      >
>      > Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make
>      > composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum
>     bagging,
>      > peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot
>     of noise
>      > from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
>     <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c ><https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c>>
>      > If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
>      >
>      >
>      >          Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Q200 at Velocity Factory

Adam hied
 

I’m based at Sebastian, and I’ve been talking to Riley swing, he said he’s hoping to be flying it soon.

Cordially,

Adam Hied

www.adamhied.com - dragonfly experimental airplane blog 

On Mar 31, 2021, at 8:26 AM, Cody <cody.craig1985@...> wrote:


Wasn't this aircraft on barnstormers back in 2019?


Re: Q200 at Velocity Factory

 

Wasn't this aircraft on barnstormers back in 2019?


Re: Q200 at Velocity Factory

Rick Hole
 

When Scott re-acquired his N1711Q I helped repair the tailbone and built a new instrument panel for it.
Thanks for 
Rick Hole

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:59 AM Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here’s a couple of pics from a video Velocity posted yesterday.  Good looking Q200 registered to Brian Swings.



Corbin

--
Corbin
N121CG






Q200 at Velocity Factory

Corbin
 

Here’s a couple of pics from a video Velocity posted yesterday. Good looking Q200 registered to Brian Swings.



Corbin

--
Corbin
N121CG


Jim Patillo canopy

Nick Wright
 

Jim,

     Can you send detailed pictures of how your canopy is hinged? Mine was hinged very similar, but didn't work out very well. I'm looking for alternatives.

Thanks,
NW
N350JD

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:36 AM Jerry Marstall <jerrylm1986@...> wrote:
How wonderful. Spreading the thrill.
Jerry 

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 6:38 PM Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
This our flight back from Auburn to the SF Bay Area Sunday. Sophia loves flying in Baby!  I have 2 sons 2 daughters,
8 grand daughters and one grand son who’s the youngest. They have all flown in my plane. I love being a Poppa. 

Jim
N 46JP Q200





Sent from Outer Space


Re: Grand Daughters can become Pilots too!

Jerry Marstall
 

How wonderful. Spreading the thrill.
Jerry 

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 6:38 PM Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
This our flight back from Auburn to the SF Bay Area Sunday. Sophia loves flying in Baby!  I have 2 sons 2 daughters,
8 grand daughters and one grand son who’s the youngest. They have all flown in my plane. I love being a Poppa. 

Jim
N 46JP Q200





Sent from Outer Space


Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up

Robert Cringely
 

My engine is 55kg all-up.The titanium parts hardly weigh anything. There are Q1s with 1835 VWs that weigh 75 kg, so I'm not too bothered. Keeping the CG in the right place is a matter of adding weight in the tail. I've converted to a heavier Aviation Products tailwheel with a rod spring for most of that. The lady in Ojai who makes those tailwheels (it's just one lady, all on her own, in her late father's old airplane factory kind of like a flying Miss Havisham from Great Expectations), she'll sell me the correct spring to dial it in when I finish carving my prop, which I should have done long ago, but it's my first three-blader and pretty daunting. There's a reason why only Craig Catto carves three-bladed wood props.


On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 2:44 AM Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...> wrote:
Rob,

wow, a Diesel with a turbo!!! Sounds awesome!! Did you have a youtube channel or a website/facebok with more information? Its the weight about 55kg all In or just the engine? 

A other great engine manufacturer is Lifan, they copied the B&S engine with some improvements and a EFI system too. Please find below a link: https://www.lifancanada.ca/27hp-lifan-engine-elect-starter-2v78f-3.html

I got my information about the B&S conversation from Kevin Armstrong, he has build one of the engine (no, it was two after the first blow up based on a value/oil issue) on his trike. Please find below the link on you tube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy6Tg3ssJZc&t=105s

At first he chose the B&S Vanguard with 679cc and the second engine is B&S with 800cc. He did it all by him self and the upgrades comes from the US. The weight of the engine was all in around 30kg, so we are in the range that the Q1 could handle it.

If you want get in touch with kevin, send him a message and he will for sure share with you all the information/drawings/test result and soon.

Best regards

Eugen 


Am 30.03.2021 um 22:48 schrieb Robert Cringely <bob@...>:

I like the idea of using the Briggs & Stratton Vanguard engine, especially since there is so much racing experience and aftermarket parts. I am installing a new engine in my Q1 and going in a similar -- though not identical -- direction. I'm replacing the 22-hp Super-Onan with a pretty generic two-cylinder 870 cc Chinese direct-injection diesel rated for 25 hp at 3600 rpm. I'm turbocharging the engine with a tiny IHI turbo (the smallest sold) and an intercooler. I'm aiming for a turbo-normalized 30 hp, which should give me some really interesting performance numbers at my 17,999-foot cruise altitude.

The engine is all aluminum and air-cooled. I've removed a bunch of extra parts and material like the OEM exhaust, intake, and fuel tank and have the weight down around 55 kg. The new parts are mainly titanium, but that's because we use titanium at my day job and have a welder who does beautiful work. Guessing that the crankshaft is a casting, I'm installing a 1-to-1 belt drive to isolate the prop loads while raising the thrust line. The engine, turbo, and intercooler come from China, the redrive is from India, so the complete powerplant (minus prop) was under $2000 including shipping.

I built the new engine so I can commute to work in San Luis Obispo, CA. My company is right at the airport there and I can even park inside. Presently I fly my Thorp T-18, which takes about 90 minutes for the 222 nm flight from Santa Rosa. I don't expect the Q to go any faster (or slower) than that, but hope to drop the fuel consumption from 10 gallons down to three. Even at 10 gallons it is cheaper to fly than to drive my car, in part because I skip the toll on the Golden Gate Bridge. 



Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Sam Hoskins
 

That's very interesting, thanks for sharing. 

Sam 

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 12:58 AM Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...> wrote:
Sam,
I use Compoflex 150 SB as peel ply and it’s very useful, much more than the Standard. Please find below the link: https://www.fibertex.com/products/composites/compoflex-overview/compoflex-sb150

Eugen

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 30.03.2021 um 23:52 schrieb Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>:


Eugene, those look like nice parts. Did you use peel ply? I don't see any. It's very useful and explained in the education section of the plans. 

Sam 

On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 5:29 AM Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...> wrote:
The missing Picture of Bulkhead 153.7 and AFT Canopy Bulkhead, ups. Sorry.  


Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up

Eugen Pilarski
 

Rob,

wow, a Diesel with a turbo!!! Sounds awesome!! Did you have a youtube channel or a website/facebok with more information? Its the weight about 55kg all In or just the engine? 

A other great engine manufacturer is Lifan, they copied the B&S engine with some improvements and a EFI system too. Please find below a link: https://www.lifancanada.ca/27hp-lifan-engine-elect-starter-2v78f-3.html

I got my information about the B&S conversation from Kevin Armstrong, he has build one of the engine (no, it was two after the first blow up based on a value/oil issue) on his trike. Please find below the link on you tube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy6Tg3ssJZc&t=105s

At first he chose the B&S Vanguard with 679cc and the second engine is B&S with 800cc. He did it all by him self and the upgrades comes from the US. The weight of the engine was all in around 30kg, so we are in the range that the Q1 could handle it.

If you want get in touch with kevin, send him a message and he will for sure share with you all the information/drawings/test result and soon.

Best regards

Eugen 


Am 30.03.2021 um 22:48 schrieb Robert Cringely <bob@...>:

I like the idea of using the Briggs & Stratton Vanguard engine, especially since there is so much racing experience and aftermarket parts. I am installing a new engine in my Q1 and going in a similar -- though not identical -- direction. I'm replacing the 22-hp Super-Onan with a pretty generic two-cylinder 870 cc Chinese direct-injection diesel rated for 25 hp at 3600 rpm. I'm turbocharging the engine with a tiny IHI turbo (the smallest sold) and an intercooler. I'm aiming for a turbo-normalized 30 hp, which should give me some really interesting performance numbers at my 17,999-foot cruise altitude.

The engine is all aluminum and air-cooled. I've removed a bunch of extra parts and material like the OEM exhaust, intake, and fuel tank and have the weight down around 55 kg. The new parts are mainly titanium, but that's because we use titanium at my day job and have a welder who does beautiful work. Guessing that the crankshaft is a casting, I'm installing a 1-to-1 belt drive to isolate the prop loads while raising the thrust line. The engine, turbo, and intercooler come from China, the redrive is from India, so the complete powerplant (minus prop) was under $2000 including shipping.

I built the new engine so I can commute to work in San Luis Obispo, CA. My company is right at the airport there and I can even park inside. Presently I fly my Thorp T-18, which takes about 90 minutes for the 222 nm flight from Santa Rosa. I don't expect the Q to go any faster (or slower) than that, but hope to drop the fuel consumption from 10 gallons down to three. Even at 10 gallons it is cheaper to fly than to drive my car, in part because I skip the toll on the Golden Gate Bridge. 



Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Eugen Pilarski
 

Wow. Great story and pictures!! Did not think that so many composite experts are here in this group. Great. 

When I look at what you have worked with in your career in the field of composites, especially with these large furnaces, I feel really small with my little vacuum bag and the electric blankets.  :-))  I think the Q1 would fit entirely in one of these ovens and many more......

Eugen 

Am 31.03.2021 um 02:01 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

That’s a cool discovery, Charlie. Also, glad you are going to get the “Milk Stool” back in the air soon. 
 
Cheers,
Jay
 
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 5:36 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
Vern,
 
You cannot use a vacuum bag for a repair on orbit. No consolidation without a column of air pushing on it. We discussed on orbit composite repairs with Thiokol and Scotty Horowitz after the second shuttle loss. The silicon carbide / carbon leading edge had a hole in it from ice impact. It would take a lot of development but Space shuttle is gone.
 
 
<image001.jpg>
 
I found two of my composite Filament Wound Case segments in Tucson a couple of weeks ago while visiting the museum. The forward 3 segments are 1/2” D6AC steel but the back two are what we produced at Hercules 1985-1986 RIP Challenger.

Charlie
 
P.S. found a replacement engine for the Tri-Pacer and working on installing.



 

On Tuesday, March 30, 2021, 3:28 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

 The ideal is zero void. Q.A. has to have some standard for acceptance or rejection. Engineering margin calculations take into consideration that zero void is not possible, although in zero G/ zero atmosphere manufacturing we might be much closer to the ideal. I probably will not live long enough to see it but most M.E. have already thought of what limits would be revised in such an environment. Perhaps some of you in your twenties could..I hope so!!   
 
 Theoretically.. glass fiber would be nearly infinitely strong in tension if there were no surface stress risers on the fibers. Not possible in todays world of course. 
 
 As I mentioned once before..nano techs were in the works to really make some advancements but the almighty Euro/Dollar/Yen or whatever money exchange chosen stepped in and made "no joy" for those events to happen.
 
 Check out "bucky balls" on the Net if your curious. Anyone that ever made this actually happen would be wealthy beyond imagination.     
 
Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Rob de Bie <robdebie@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 4:35 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam 
 

Thanks for the explanation! I never did autoclaving myself, although I prepared some fiber-metal 
laminates to be autoclaved.

A related question: AFAIK, a low percentage of voids (below 3-4%) has hardly any effect on the 
material properties. Would it be right to say that it is then more an indicator for quality control?

Rob

On 30 Mar 2021 11:57, One Sky Dog via groups.io wrote:
> Rob,
> 
> In an auto clave the usual cure cycle begins with full vacuum to expand the air bubbles so they move 
> laterally between the plies. The pressure is applied to reduce the size of any voids left and drive 
> remaining gases into solution in the resin.
> 
> Blender scheduals are calculated to not remove to much resin.
> 
> 
> Charlie
> 
> My you tube channel
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg 
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr3x6bkHUw1UUQ96ATcRFfg>
> 
> On Monday, March 29, 2021, 1:30 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> 
>     I really like this as a thought experiment. And I see some parallels with autoclave processes.
>     In an
>     autoclave you can apply pressure without the vacuum turned on. Therefore this is sort of similar to
>     what you propose. I haven't figured out yet whether this leads to different amount of resin flowing
>     into the bleeder - but my gut feeling says it will have a considerable effect.
> 
>     And now that I'm thinking about it, a typical autoclave pressure *could* make the resin absorb
>     small
>     air bubbles. At least that's what I see in resin casting, using polyurethane resin. In that process
>     one can take one of two very different routes: vacuum casting or pressure casting. In former you
>     'pull out' the air bubbles, in the latter the pressure makes the resin absorb the air bubbles.
>     Until
>     tonight I hadn't seen the parallel. But it has nothing to with building a Q1 or Q2 :-)
> 
>     Rob
> 
>     On 27 Mar 2021 21:40, Bruce Crain wrote:
>      > Just a thought.  Would it help to vacuum bag parts and then put sand or lead on top of the
>     outside
>      > bagging material to use weight to press the resin and glass together tighter into the weave?  It
>      > would be messy and you would have to keep the mold from creeping but what does the group
>     think and
>      > does any one have any experience to share about that?  Just thinking outside the box.
>      > Bruce Crain
>      >
>      > ---------- Original Message ----------
>      > From: "Stuart Grant" <smgrant@... <mailto:smgrant@...>>
>      > To: main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>
>      > Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
>      > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:18:37 -0700
>      >
>      > Here is a link to a YouTube video where Cozy Girrl Randi explains about how Cozy Girrls make
>      > composite parts, including mixing epoxy, mixing micro, using gloves, low pressure vacuum
>     bagging,
>      > peel ply, sanding etc. The video was recorded at Sun-N-Fun 2019 and the beginning has a lot
>     of noise
>      > from the air show but Randi has great tips. https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c
>     <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c ><https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c <https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c>>
>      > If the link doesn't work search YouTube for
>      >
>      >
>      >          Cozy Girrrl's LoVac Composite Tools & Tricks
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 






Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Eugen Pilarski
 

Sam,
I use Compoflex 150 SB as peel ply and it’s very useful, much more than the Standard. Please find below the link: https://www.fibertex.com/products/composites/compoflex-overview/compoflex-sb150

Eugen

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 30.03.2021 um 23:52 schrieb Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>:


Eugene, those look like nice parts. Did you use peel ply? I don't see any. It's very useful and explained in the education section of the plans. 

Sam 

On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 5:29 AM Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...> wrote:
The missing Picture of Bulkhead 153.7 and AFT Canopy Bulkhead, ups. Sorry.  

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