Re: Some Qs

Tim

Will see how it looks at the weekend.

Re: Flight report

Jay Scheevel

Hi Vern,

Forgot to mention that my redline is 3300 rpm. The factory dyno indicates 121 HP at 3300, and the torque curve is relatively flat, so HP scales pretty linearly under load. Using fuel consumption (when leaned to best power), you can get a good idea of HP being generated under prop load. The formula for this computation is [12 hp/gallon/hour]. This is fairly accurate for most engines, since energy efficiency is nearly the same for any normally aspirated engine. Using this method, my Jabiru power output (percent of max power) turns out to be the fuel flow in (gph X 10) which is easy to do in my head in the cockpit. So, when I was at 17,700 DA, and burning 3.9 gph, I was getting 39% of max power, or 47 HP.

Here is my power chart using two different methods. That simple fuel consumption method is in the right column, the other formula is shown at the top and computed in the table assuming a standard day. The region on the table outside the red dashed outline, has essentially no risk of detonation, regardless of leaning condition. Inside the outline, detonation risk increases towards the upper right, although with my 7:1 compression ratio, the risk is still pretty low.   I keep a copy of this table in the operator documents.

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Flight report

Hi Vern,

Paul Chernikeeff, the founder/owner of Rotec told me that the Rotec TBI is an exact copy of the Ellison. Elision went out of business and their patent had run out, so Rotec, just copied it and started marketing it and using it on their radial engines. I am very happy with it. Only shortcoming is really just a shortcoming of the Jabiru induction manifold, which is too small to get uniform fuel mixture. On a Lycoming it would be much better, maybe even as good as EFI for mixture control. Someday, I may fabricate a larger induction system. Jabiru actually makes a larger one for their current generation of engines.

Putting in the Jabiru, which is lighter than the O-200 required an engine mount that put it slightly forward. It is narrower, so a commensurate reduction in the prop extension meant that it could fit under the Q-200 cowling. I modified that for the radiator airflow. Luckily, Paul Spackman had already installed a Jab 3300 in his Q2 and the guy that fabricated his engine mount built one for me also. Paul’s was air cooled and he had the GU canard and it was very fast. The current generation of Jabirus have heads permanently fixed to the cylinder like the Lyc/Cons so water cooling is not an option. If you are considering the Jabiru as a powerplant, there is lots more you should know before making that decision. Contact me offline and I can give you all the pros and cons.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 7:57 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Flight report

Quote from one US supplier, whom I trust and know personally.

"This is an outstanding carburetor, based on the initial Ellison design. It works equally well as gravity feed or pump fed. Although it is referred to as a “Throttle Body Injector” it is technically a diaphragm control, flat slide, float less carburetor. It will not pickup if subjected to negative G’s. It has full authority mixture control, and is known for very accurate mixture distribution. The ‘button’ on the diaphragm can be used as a primer, and the carb also has a bypass port to further prevent hard starting when hot. An affordable, brand new carb, in production many years and based on a very well proven design. I am a US service center for these carbs, so they need not be returned to the factory if any service is ever required.-Made in Australia."

I've seen the 3300 on Zenith 701 and 601. Owners (West Coast and high DA bases) I spoke with were pleased with the powerplant. I suspect your actually obtaining around 107hp constant at 85% throttle setting (that would be 2500 to 2550 RPM). Your redline is 2750 RPM if I understand correctly.

A well thought out powerplant and it has proven itself to at least 18,000 ft PA.

For those that might choose this engine, what were your CG issues (and corrections) as compared to the O-200?

I ask because the availability of Certificated Continentals and to some degree Lycoming (and Franklin) which we had in droves back in the 1980's is already a challenge 40 years later. I have made my decision on this topic but not everyone was hacked out of the clay to be a gearhead as I was. I own the equipment to back up the tasks as well so that is yet another factor.

I admit to be a rather serious chicken in the air, and over ruff terrain even more so. I've had a CFI on Bi-annual review ask me why I was not having fun. He was a bit younger than I am (about 30 years). It's not that flying isn't deeply satisfying to me..it is!..but I realize my personality becomes quite stoic once the pre-flight begins. I guess it's the responsibility part that drives my seriousness. I was trained in a more or less military manner..my first CFI was a WW2 and Korean War Veteran Instructor known to be strict. At the time exactly what a wise assed 21 year old wannabe pilot needed. I crossed my 40 hours on my exam. Soloed at just over 5 hours. Fitzpatrik was a tuff old bastard but he put the right kind of fear in my kraut head right off the bat.

Flatland flying is at least a bit less tension, just give the storms a lot of respect. Lots of (hopefully) reasonable places to park below if need be. Travel out of the Midwest is nice when aviating because the hours of bored driving in mostly dull scenery is avoided. I was born and grew up my early years mostly in Kansas and Florida. FLAT.

Now I live in Eastern Oklahoma which is a lot of lakes,trees,and hills. Not so many nice parking places if need be.

I'll be flying off my 40 hours at Cushing airport. Flat.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2021 10:43 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Flight report

Hi Vern,

Flying behind a modified Jabiru 3300.  (Six banger, horizontally opposed). It is modified with liquid cooled heads and I have a Rotec throttle body injector, so normally aspirated. Mike Dwyer asked about the ignition. I have one magneto and one fixed advance electronic ignition, so basic stuff on both fuel and ignition.

Yep, need to be vigilant of winds and DA when operating in the mountains, but the scenery is great!

Cheers,

Jay

On Jun 12, 2021, at 2:59 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

﻿

Yes indeed! So the numbers prove that the Q design is still a serious CAFE contender. Jay, your flying with which powerplant? Normally aspirated (I presume), carb or injection?

It is important to have the actual service ceiling known in the aircraft operations info. I lived in the Taos area for quite a while. Better know your location and winds aloft ALL the time. Too many flatlanders ended up permanently parked out on the slopes because they let the Ego take over at pre-flight! I learned to fly in Arkansas so for me it was a transition, and again when I lived the Pacific Northwest (sometimes busy as I was flying from Paine Field in Everett where my employer at the time flys BIG airliners to and from).

When the day comes for this test I'll be hoping to see some similar numbers! 😊 Big grins. Squeekers are always good after a challenge flight.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2021 3:29 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Flight report

Took a flight this morning to check out my service ceiling. Sam mentioned that he thought I should do the service ceiling test during his comments at my hangar tour in April. I had filled the O2 bottle anticipating coming to Kevin’s fling in May and I never made it there, so I had some oxygen to experiment with. Took off with about 15 gallons of fuel and only me on board. The takeoff was at 6100’ DA and it got off smartly in less than 1500’ of runway.  I kept climbing steadily between 500 and 300 fpm showing around 105-110 mph IAS or around 125 TAS. Got up over 15,800 feet pressure altitude, and when it  slowed down, I grew bored of climbing at only 100 fpm, so I terminated the experiment. That was about 17,700 Density altitude, so I think I could climb to 18K pressure altitude on a standard day if I wanted to. At this point I pushed the nose over and got it trimmed up to fly level at a little over 15,800 PA. I was able to indicate 107 mph, which translated to 141 mph TAS and I was burning less than 4 gph! The wind was from the SW at 29 mph, so if I had turned to the NE and headed over the hills, I would have had minimum 2500’ feet clearance over the highest peaks and done 170 mph ground speed…at 4 gph, that would be very economical. The aircraft handling was solid during the entire flight. Controls were always agile. Also, the powerplant ran flawlessly all the way up and back down with no hesitations, roughness, heating/cooling problems, etc.

My conclusions: This airplane will do anything that I require it to do in order to fly safely in my high altitude environment, and I am very happy with the performance overall. Also, had a nice landing at the end. Smiley face. 😊

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ, 151 hours.

<image003.jpg>

Re: Flight report

Jay Scheevel

Hi Vern,

Paul Chernikeeff, the founder/owner of Rotec told me that the Rotec TBI is an exact copy of the Ellison. Elision went out of business and their patent had run out, so Rotec, just copied it and started marketing it and using it on their radial engines. I am very happy with it. Only shortcoming is really just a shortcoming of the Jabiru induction manifold, which is too small to get uniform fuel mixture. On a Lycoming it would be much better, maybe even as good as EFI for mixture control. Someday, I may fabricate a larger induction system. Jabiru actually makes a larger one for their current generation of engines.

Putting in the Jabiru, which is lighter than the O-200 required an engine mount that put it slightly forward. It is narrower, so a commensurate reduction in the prop extension meant that it could fit under the Q-200 cowling. I modified that for the radiator airflow. Luckily, Paul Spackman had already installed a Jab 3300 in his Q2 and the guy that fabricated his engine mount built one for me also. Paul’s was air cooled and he had the GU canard and it was very fast. The current generation of Jabirus have heads permanently fixed to the cylinder like the Lyc/Cons so water cooling is not an option. If you are considering the Jabiru as a powerplant, there is lots more you should know before making that decision. Contact me offline and I can give you all the pros and cons.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 7:57 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Flight report

Quote from one US supplier, whom I trust and know personally.

"This is an outstanding carburetor, based on the initial Ellison design. It works equally well as gravity feed or pump fed. Although it is referred to as a “Throttle Body Injector” it is technically a diaphragm control, flat slide, float less carburetor. It will not pickup if subjected to negative G’s. It has full authority mixture control, and is known for very accurate mixture distribution. The ‘button’ on the diaphragm can be used as a primer, and the carb also has a bypass port to further prevent hard starting when hot. An affordable, brand new carb, in production many years and based on a very well proven design. I am a US service center for these carbs, so they need not be returned to the factory if any service is ever required.-Made in Australia."

I've seen the 3300 on Zenith 701 and 601. Owners (West Coast and high DA bases) I spoke with were pleased with the powerplant. I suspect your actually obtaining around 107hp constant at 85% throttle setting (that would be 2500 to 2550 RPM). Your redline is 2750 RPM if I understand correctly.

A well thought out powerplant and it has proven itself to at least 18,000 ft PA.

For those that might choose this engine, what were your CG issues (and corrections) as compared to the O-200?

I ask because the availability of Certificated Continentals and to some degree Lycoming (and Franklin) which we had in droves back in the 1980's is already a challenge 40 years later. I have made my decision on this topic but not everyone was hacked out of the clay to be a gearhead as I was. I own the equipment to back up the tasks as well so that is yet another factor.

I admit to be a rather serious chicken in the air, and over ruff terrain even more so. I've had a CFI on Bi-annual review ask me why I was not having fun. He was a bit younger than I am (about 30 years). It's not that flying isn't deeply satisfying to me..it is!..but I realize my personality becomes quite stoic once the pre-flight begins. I guess it's the responsibility part that drives my seriousness. I was trained in a more or less military manner..my first CFI was a WW2 and Korean War Veteran Instructor known to be strict. At the time exactly what a wise assed 21 year old wannabe pilot needed. I crossed my 40 hours on my exam. Soloed at just over 5 hours. Fitzpatrik was a tuff old bastard but he put the right kind of fear in my kraut head right off the bat.

Flatland flying is at least a bit less tension, just give the storms a lot of respect. Lots of (hopefully) reasonable places to park below if need be. Travel out of the Midwest is nice when aviating because the hours of bored driving in mostly dull scenery is avoided. I was born and grew up my early years mostly in Kansas and Florida. FLAT.

Now I live in Eastern Oklahoma which is a lot of lakes,trees,and hills. Not so many nice parking places if need be.

I'll be flying off my 40 hours at Cushing airport. Flat.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2021 10:43 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Flight report

Hi Vern,

Flying behind a modified Jabiru 3300.  (Six banger, horizontally opposed). It is modified with liquid cooled heads and I have a Rotec throttle body injector, so normally aspirated. Mike Dwyer asked about the ignition. I have one magneto and one fixed advance electronic ignition, so basic stuff on both fuel and ignition.

Yep, need to be vigilant of winds and DA when operating in the mountains, but the scenery is great!

Cheers,

Jay

On Jun 12, 2021, at 2:59 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

﻿

Yes indeed! So the numbers prove that the Q design is still a serious CAFE contender. Jay, your flying with which powerplant? Normally aspirated (I presume), carb or injection?

It is important to have the actual service ceiling known in the aircraft operations info. I lived in the Taos area for quite a while. Better know your location and winds aloft ALL the time. Too many flatlanders ended up permanently parked out on the slopes because they let the Ego take over at pre-flight! I learned to fly in Arkansas so for me it was a transition, and again when I lived the Pacific Northwest (sometimes busy as I was flying from Paine Field in Everett where my employer at the time flys BIG airliners to and from).

When the day comes for this test I'll be hoping to see some similar numbers! 😊 Big grins. Squeekers are always good after a challenge flight.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2021 3:29 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Flight report

Took a flight this morning to check out my service ceiling. Sam mentioned that he thought I should do the service ceiling test during his comments at my hangar tour in April. I had filled the O2 bottle anticipating coming to Kevin’s fling in May and I never made it there, so I had some oxygen to experiment with. Took off with about 15 gallons of fuel and only me on board. The takeoff was at 6100’ DA and it got off smartly in less than 1500’ of runway.  I kept climbing steadily between 500 and 300 fpm showing around 105-110 mph IAS or around 125 TAS. Got up over 15,800 feet pressure altitude, and when it  slowed down, I grew bored of climbing at only 100 fpm, so I terminated the experiment. That was about 17,700 Density altitude, so I think I could climb to 18K pressure altitude on a standard day if I wanted to. At this point I pushed the nose over and got it trimmed up to fly level at a little over 15,800 PA. I was able to indicate 107 mph, which translated to 141 mph TAS and I was burning less than 4 gph! The wind was from the SW at 29 mph, so if I had turned to the NE and headed over the hills, I would have had minimum 2500’ feet clearance over the highest peaks and done 170 mph ground speed…at 4 gph, that would be very economical. The aircraft handling was solid during the entire flight. Controls were always agile. Also, the powerplant ran flawlessly all the way up and back down with no hesitations, roughness, heating/cooling problems, etc.

My conclusions: This airplane will do anything that I require it to do in order to fly safely in my high altitude environment, and I am very happy with the performance overall. Also, had a nice landing at the end. Smiley face. 😊

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ, 151 hours.

<image003.jpg>

Re: Some Qs

Jay Scheevel

Hi Tim,

Here is the diagram from the Velocity XL plans. This is how I have mine set up, there are no phenolic spacers. I have replaced the phenolic spacers with 1/8” thick steel washers having the same ID and OD as the phenolic. Depending on how your gear fork is made, you may want to use the phenolic to get the nut in the sweet spot of the threads.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 6:54 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Some Qs

Hi Tim,

Question number one. Refer to page 168 in the following document:

http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/Q2_Q200_Plans_Abridged_for_Scheevel_Construction.pdf
That will give you the layout for the elevator control that was standard with the Tri-Q plans. I did not build mine that way, but I just cut a tunnel in the top of the main tank and used the original Q-200 control system, but Tri-q2's with both types of elevator controls exist. If you build it per Tri-Q plans, make sure you carefully bond the support that is on the canard in a very robust way. We had one builder that had that support delaminate on him and nearly ended his first flight tragically.

Second question. Tail cone screws. All planes that I have seen have the screws done per plans, but some, including mine have the fixed screws that are on the forward fuselage section filled and painted over. If it did it again, I would not do this, as they look better as screws than they do as "bumps" under the paint.

Third question. The nose gear setup varies from plane to plane. The cupped washers are known as belleville washers in the hardware world. You can find more if you need them at Mcmaster Carr. The shape provides a spring effect when you tighten down on them. They are best placed on top of the nose fork, since that is where the spring is most needed. The phenolic is more of a spacer that allows everything to be set up and tightened without running out of threads when you tighten the large stop nut on the bottom of the assembly. Your gear is a velocity style gear, and if you want to see how velocity recommends setting the belleville washers and the phenolic, take a look on velocity aircraft website. They have some plans there. If you can't find them, let me know during the week when I am on my work computer and I can send you a document with the layout. Critical in the setup of the nose gear is to have the fork pivot angle set up right. Have a look at the plans in the document link above and you will see the recommendation (this is refering to the old style fork, not the velocity one you have, but the angle recommendation remains the same). This prevents it from shimmying too much.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ 150 hours.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:42:38 -0700, "Tim" <timmrlw@...> wrote:

Hi All,

I have a few questions which have come up during my completion…

1) Stick extension - I have noticed on the Q tours (thanks for those Sam and all) that some have the extension on the front of the stick and some don’t. I can see it in the LS1 plans. My Tri-Q200 with LS1 (dual elevator rods) doesn’t have this, the previous owner says it meets the control throw limits, but I have it in bits at the minute and didn’t check. Why was this mod introduced? (Avoids having to cut a tunnel into the tank?)

2) Tail cone bolts - again in the tours I see some have the per plans dome headed screws and some you can’t see, have people fitting countersunk machine screws instead and filled over the heads?

3) My nose leg has a phenolic disc (adjusts deck angle?) plain washers and then 4-5 ‘cupped’ washers. I can’t see reference to this assembly in the plans, should I have this number of the cup washer or just one each side of the gear, I assume these allow you to preload the assembly without clamping down on it too much.

Re: Some Qs

Jay Scheevel

I suspect someone substituted a piece of tubing for the stick component. Take a look at the bottom, where the stick pivots forward and back. There should be a little steel tube (full length bush) welded in there that captures the transverse AN3 bolt at the base of the stick. If that bush is not there, then you have a not got an original part, just a tube. The plate with 3 holes welded on the front and the bush in the base were present on all kits as far as I know.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 12:23 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Some Qs

Hi Sam,

Hopefully the photo works, I mean the plate welded to the front of the tube.

Thanks Bruce and Jay - I’ll have a look out for those plans and do a bit more research.

Cheers, Tim

Re: Some Qs

Tim

Hi Sam,

Hopefully the photo works, I mean the plate welded to the front of the tube.

Thanks Bruce and Jay - I’ll have a look out for those plans and do a bit more research.

Cheers, Tim

Re: Some Qs

Jay Scheevel

Hi Tim,

Question number one. Refer to page 168 in the following document:

http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/Q2_Q200_Plans_Abridged_for_Scheevel_Construction.pdf
That will give you the layout for the elevator control that was standard with the Tri-Q plans. I did not build mine that way, but I just cut a tunnel in the top of the main tank and used the original Q-200 control system, but Tri-q2's with both types of elevator controls exist. If you build it per Tri-Q plans, make sure you carefully bond the support that is on the canard in a very robust way. We had one builder that had that support delaminate on him and nearly ended his first flight tragically.

Second question. Tail cone screws. All planes that I have seen have the screws done per plans, but some, including mine have the fixed screws that are on the forward fuselage section filled and painted over. If it did it again, I would not do this, as they look better as screws than they do as "bumps" under the paint.

Third question. The nose gear setup varies from plane to plane. The cupped washers are known as belleville washers in the hardware world. You can find more if you need them at Mcmaster Carr. The shape provides a spring effect when you tighten down on them. They are best placed on top of the nose fork, since that is where the spring is most needed. The phenolic is more of a spacer that allows everything to be set up and tightened without running out of threads when you tighten the large stop nut on the bottom of the assembly. Your gear is a velocity style gear, and if you want to see how velocity recommends setting the belleville washers and the phenolic, take a look on velocity aircraft website. They have some plans there. If you can't find them, let me know during the week when I am on my work computer and I can send you a document with the layout. Critical in the setup of the nose gear is to have the fork pivot angle set up right. Have a look at the plans in the document link above and you will see the recommendation (this is refering to the old style fork, not the velocity one you have, but the angle recommendation remains the same). This prevents it from shimmying too much.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ 150 hours.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:42:38 -0700, "Tim" <timmrlw@...> wrote:

Hi All,

I have a few questions which have come up during my completion…

1) Stick extension - I have noticed on the Q tours (thanks for those Sam and all) that some have the extension on the front of the stick and some don’t. I can see it in the LS1 plans. My Tri-Q200 with LS1 (dual elevator rods) doesn’t have this, the previous owner says it meets the control throw limits, but I have it in bits at the minute and didn’t check. Why was this mod introduced? (Avoids having to cut a tunnel into the tank?)

2) Tail cone bolts - again in the tours I see some have the per plans dome headed screws and some you can’t see, have people fitting countersunk machine screws instead and filled over the heads?

3) My nose leg has a phenolic disc (adjusts deck angle?) plain washers and then 4-5 ‘cupped’ washers. I can’t see reference to this assembly in the plans, should I have this number of the cup washer or just one each side of the gear, I assume these allow you to preload the assembly without clamping down on it too much.

Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up

Jerry Marstall

VERY nice!  Jerry

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 3:19 PM Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...> wrote:
Hello Q-Community,

Today I start to sand the unique Q1 lines, please find the progress below.

Best regards

Eugen

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.06.2021 um 00:16 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

﻿

Very nice work, Eugen. I hope that Burt Rutan gets to see your final product.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 3:47 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

Dear Q-list Group,

the Q1 fuselage assembly progress is stil on going, the last bulkhead 110 is on his place. So the next step will curve the outside of the fuselage to create the unique Q1 lines. Please find a link to my website, scroll down a liltle bit to reach the picture.

During the whole progress I learn tons of stuff about foam, glass, resin, squeegee, flox, wet / dry / flush micro, vacuum bags and where my fingers should do not touch if sealing is placed and use all times a hat and much more ……………..what a wonderful journey :-)

Thank you guys that you kick me in that path :-)

Best regards

Eugen

Re: Some Qs

Bruce Crain

3-  yes the phenolic is to raise the angle of attack on the ground.  You should know that if the nose gear wheel pant is in place it can come into contact with the prop.  I drilled and tapped a bolt in the top of the fork after cutting away a part of the large welded washer (maybe 90 degrees which leaves 45 degrees left and right of center when turning on the ground).  The tapped bolt is centered in the cutaway up close to the cut back washer so that the ends of the cutaway stops the fork before it turns far enough to contact the prop with the wheel pant.
Because of the above scenario the phenolic is the only thing between the large welded washer and the top of the fork.  You shouldn’t try to cut the cupped spring washers as they will cut into the things they are contacted.  So that leaves the cupped washers underneath the fork.
Hope this helps.
Bruce

On Jun 13, 2021, at 4:32 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:

﻿
1.) Can you be more specific about the stick extension you're referring to?

2.)  Many of us have flat head screws on the front portion of the attachment, with pan head screws on the back.

3.)  Sorry, I'm not a Tri-Q guy. Photos are helpful.

Sam

On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 4:42 PM Tim <timmrlw@...> wrote:
Hi All,

I have a few questions which have come up during my completion…

1) Stick extension - I have noticed on the Q tours (thanks for those Sam and all) that some have the extension on the front of the stick and some don’t. I can see it in the LS1 plans. My Tri-Q200 with LS1 (dual elevator rods) doesn’t have this, the previous owner says it meets the control throw limits, but I have it in bits at the minute and didn’t check. Why was this mod introduced? (Avoids having to cut a tunnel into the tank?)

2) Tail cone bolts - again in the tours I see some have the per plans dome headed screws and some you can’t see, have people fitting countersunk machine screws instead and filled over the heads?

3) My nose leg has a phenolic disc (adjusts deck angle?) plain washers and then 4-5 ‘cupped’ washers. I can’t see reference to this assembly in the plans, should I have this number of the cup washer or just one each side of the gear, I assume these allow you to preload the assembly without clamping down on it too much.

Re: Some Qs

Sam Hoskins

1.) Can you be more specific about the stick extension you're referring to?

2.)  Many of us have flat head screws on the front portion of the attachment, with pan head screws on the back.

3.)  Sorry, I'm not a Tri-Q guy. Photos are helpful.

Sam

On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 4:42 PM Tim <timmrlw@...> wrote:
Hi All,

I have a few questions which have come up during my completion…

1) Stick extension - I have noticed on the Q tours (thanks for those Sam and all) that some have the extension on the front of the stick and some don’t. I can see it in the LS1 plans. My Tri-Q200 with LS1 (dual elevator rods) doesn’t have this, the previous owner says it meets the control throw limits, but I have it in bits at the minute and didn’t check. Why was this mod introduced? (Avoids having to cut a tunnel into the tank?)

2) Tail cone bolts - again in the tours I see some have the per plans dome headed screws and some you can’t see, have people fitting countersunk machine screws instead and filled over the heads?

3) My nose leg has a phenolic disc (adjusts deck angle?) plain washers and then 4-5 ‘cupped’ washers. I can’t see reference to this assembly in the plans, should I have this number of the cup washer or just one each side of the gear, I assume these allow you to preload the assembly without clamping down on it too much.

Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up

Eugen Pilarski

David,
thank you very much for the detailed information. After you send the first mail I check the plans too. You are right, I did not place the glass on the firewall yet and will do it Right away.

Best regards

Eugen

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 13.06.2021 um 22:34 schrieb David J. Gall <David@...>:

﻿

“I did not catch up that point yet.”

I’m not sure I understand your reply. To clarify my point: plans page 4-3 comes before plans chapter 7 so glassing the firewall should have been completed before fuselage assembly. The instruction to do so is not explicit, but implied by the last line of text on page 4-3.

<image002.png>

I don’t think it will affect structural integrity to glass the firewall after fuselage assembly but it will only get more difficult to rectify this omission the farther you progress without doing so.

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 12:55 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

David,

thank you for your note, I did not catch up that point yet.

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 13.06.2021 um 21:42 schrieb David J. Gall <David@...>:

﻿

Eugen, aren’t you supposed to have 1 ply BID on each side of the firewall before fuselage assembly? See plans page 4-3.

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 12:19 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

Hello Q-Community,

Today I start to sand the unique Q1 lines, please find the progress below.

Best regards

Eugen

<image001.jpg>

<image002.jpg>

<image003.jpg>

<image004.jpg>

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.06.2021 um 00:16 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

﻿

Very nice work, Eugen. I hope that Burt Rutan gets to see your final product.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 3:47 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

Dear Q-list Group,

the Q1 fuselage assembly progress is stil on going, the last bulkhead 110 is on his place. So the next step will curve the outside of the fuselage to create the unique Q1 lines. Please find a link to my website, scroll down a liltle bit to reach the picture.

During the whole progress I learn tons of stuff about foam, glass, resin, squeegee, flox, wet / dry / flush micro, vacuum bags and where my fingers should do not touch if sealing is placed and use all times a hat and much more ……………..what a wonderful journey :-)

Thank you guys that you kick me in that path :-)

Best regards

Eugen

Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up

David J. Gall

“I did not catch up that point yet.”

I’m not sure I understand your reply. To clarify my point: plans page 4-3 comes before plans chapter 7 so glassing the firewall should have been completed before fuselage assembly. The instruction to do so is not explicit, but implied by the last line of text on page 4-3.

I don’t think it will affect structural integrity to glass the firewall after fuselage assembly but it will only get more difficult to rectify this omission the farther you progress without doing so.

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 12:55 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

David,

thank you for your note, I did not catch up that point yet.

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 13.06.2021 um 21:42 schrieb David J. Gall <David@...>:

﻿

Eugen, aren’t you supposed to have 1 ply BID on each side of the firewall before fuselage assembly? See plans page 4-3.

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 12:19 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

Hello Q-Community,

Today I start to sand the unique Q1 lines, please find the progress below.

Best regards

Eugen

<image001.jpg>

<image002.jpg>

<image003.jpg>

<image004.jpg>

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.06.2021 um 00:16 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

﻿

Very nice work, Eugen. I hope that Burt Rutan gets to see your final product.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 3:47 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

Dear Q-list Group,

the Q1 fuselage assembly progress is stil on going, the last bulkhead 110 is on his place. So the next step will curve the outside of the fuselage to create the unique Q1 lines. Please find a link to my website, scroll down a liltle bit to reach the picture.

During the whole progress I learn tons of stuff about foam, glass, resin, squeegee, flox, wet / dry / flush micro, vacuum bags and where my fingers should do not touch if sealing is placed and use all times a hat and much more ……………..what a wonderful journey :-)

Thank you guys that you kick me in that path :-)

Best regards

Eugen

Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up

Sam Hoskins

Eugene,

It would be great if you could open a photo album with your photos. That way we would have them all in one place.

Use your name for the album:

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 2:19 PM Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...> wrote:
Hello Q-Community,

Today I start to sand the unique Q1 lines, please find the progress below.

Best regards

Eugen

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.06.2021 um 00:16 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

﻿

Very nice work, Eugen. I hope that Burt Rutan gets to see your final product.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 3:47 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

Dear Q-list Group,

the Q1 fuselage assembly progress is stil on going, the last bulkhead 110 is on his place. So the next step will curve the outside of the fuselage to create the unique Q1 lines. Please find a link to my website, scroll down a liltle bit to reach the picture.

During the whole progress I learn tons of stuff about foam, glass, resin, squeegee, flox, wet / dry / flush micro, vacuum bags and where my fingers should do not touch if sealing is placed and use all times a hat and much more ……………..what a wonderful journey :-)

Thank you guys that you kick me in that path :-)

Best regards

Eugen

Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up

Eugen Pilarski

David,
thank you for your note, I did not catch up that point yet.

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 13.06.2021 um 21:42 schrieb David J. Gall <David@...>:

﻿

Eugen, aren’t you supposed to have 1 ply BID on each side of the firewall before fuselage assembly? See plans page 4-3.

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 12:19 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

Hello Q-Community,

Today I start to sand the unique Q1 lines, please find the progress below.

Best regards

Eugen

<image001.jpg>
<image002.jpg>
<image003.jpg>
<image004.jpg>

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.06.2021 um 00:16 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

﻿

Very nice work, Eugen. I hope that Burt Rutan gets to see your final product.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 3:47 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

Dear Q-list Group,

the Q1 fuselage assembly progress is stil on going, the last bulkhead 110 is on his place. So the next step will curve the outside of the fuselage to create the unique Q1 lines. Please find a link to my website, scroll down a liltle bit to reach the picture.

During the whole progress I learn tons of stuff about foam, glass, resin, squeegee, flox, wet / dry / flush micro, vacuum bags and where my fingers should do not touch if sealing is placed and use all times a hat and much more ……………..what a wonderful journey :-)

Thank you guys that you kick me in that path :-)

Best regards

Eugen

Re: O-235 on Q2

Robert Cringely

Jim Bede used such a swing-away mount on the BD-4.

On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 7:05 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
I seem to remember one 235 installation had a swing away mount. Or maybe I am imagining that.

Cheers,
Jay

On Jun 6, 2021, at 7:28 PM, Robert Cringely <bob@...> wrote:

﻿
There was a guy in Albuquerque in the 1990s who was putting an O-235 in his Dragonfly. I know because I bought the 2180 VW he removed to do it. An O-235 is wider than an O-200. I don't think it would fit very well.

Bob

On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 6:06 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
I believe Sammy Hoskins and Bob Malecek were faster both with 0200’s both “pumped”
Bruce

On Jun 6, 2021, at 2:20 PM, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

﻿
Gary, was the O-235 any faster than a pumped up 0200?

Just curious,
Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Gary McKirdy <gary.mckirdy21@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 6, 2021 12:05:52 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] O-235 on Q2

Yes, flown 2 o235 Qs, both in europe. both LS1 canard. It is perfectly doable but suggest you hang engine as far back as possible.

Gary

On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 at 03:24, ryan goodman via groups.io <elboy0712=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Anyone tried an O-235 on a Q2? I know it may be a bit heavy. Only asking because I have two hopped up ones sitting in my hangar and it sparked my curiosity

Ryan

Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up

David J. Gall

Eugen, aren’t you supposed to have 1 ply BID on each side of the firewall before fuselage assembly? See plans page 4-3.

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 12:19 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

Hello Q-Community,

Today I start to sand the unique Q1 lines, please find the progress below.

Best regards

Eugen

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.06.2021 um 00:16 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

﻿

Very nice work, Eugen. I hope that Burt Rutan gets to see your final product.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 3:47 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

Dear Q-list Group,

the Q1 fuselage assembly progress is stil on going, the last bulkhead 110 is on his place. So the next step will curve the outside of the fuselage to create the unique Q1 lines. Please find a link to my website, scroll down a liltle bit to reach the picture.

During the whole progress I learn tons of stuff about foam, glass, resin, squeegee, flox, wet / dry / flush micro, vacuum bags and where my fingers should do not touch if sealing is placed and use all times a hat and much more ……………..what a wonderful journey :-)

Thank you guys that you kick me in that path :-)

Best regards

Eugen

Re: Q1 Fuselage comes up

Eugen Pilarski

Hello Q-Community,

Today I start to sand the unique Q1 lines, please find the progress below.

Best regards

Eugen

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.06.2021 um 00:16 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

﻿

Very nice work, Eugen. I hope that Burt Rutan gets to see your final product.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 3:47 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q1 Fuselage comes up

Dear Q-list Group,

the Q1 fuselage assembly progress is stil on going, the last bulkhead 110 is on his place. So the next step will curve the outside of the fuselage to create the unique Q1 lines. Please find a link to my website, scroll down a liltle bit to reach the picture.

During the whole progress I learn tons of stuff about foam, glass, resin, squeegee, flox, wet / dry / flush micro, vacuum bags and where my fingers should do not touch if sealing is placed and use all times a hat and much more ……………..what a wonderful journey :-)

Thank you guys that you kick me in that path :-)

Best regards

Eugen

Re: Flight report

smeshno1@...

Quote from one US supplier, whom I trust and know personally.

"This is an outstanding carburetor, based on the initial Ellison design. It works equally well as gravity feed or pump fed. Although it is referred to as a “Throttle Body Injector” it is technically a diaphragm control, flat slide, float less carburetor. It will not pickup if subjected to negative G’s. It has full authority mixture control, and is known for very accurate mixture distribution. The ‘button’ on the diaphragm can be used as a primer, and the carb also has a bypass port to further prevent hard starting when hot. An affordable, brand new carb, in production many years and based on a very well proven design. I am a US service center for these carbs, so they need not be returned to the factory if any service is ever required.-Made in Australia."

I've seen the 3300 on Zenith 701 and 601. Owners (West Coast and high DA bases) I spoke with were pleased with the powerplant. I suspect your actually obtaining around 107hp constant at 85% throttle setting (that would be 2500 to 2550 RPM). Your redline is 2750 RPM if I understand correctly.

A well thought out powerplant and it has proven itself to at least 18,000 ft PA.

For those that might choose this engine, what were your CG issues (and corrections) as compared to the O-200?

I ask because the availability of Certificated Continentals and to some degree Lycoming (and Franklin) which we had in droves back in the 1980's is already a challenge 40 years later. I have made my decision on this topic but not everyone was hacked out of the clay to be a gearhead as I was. I own the equipment to back up the tasks as well so that is yet another factor.

I admit to be a rather serious chicken in the air, and over ruff terrain even more so. I've had a CFI on Bi-annual review ask me why I was not having fun. He was a bit younger than I am (about 30 years). It's not that flying isn't deeply satisfying to me..it is!..but I realize my personality becomes quite stoic once the pre-flight begins. I guess it's the responsibility part that drives my seriousness. I was trained in a more or less military manner..my first CFI was a WW2 and Korean War Veteran Instructor known to be strict. At the time exactly what a wise assed 21 year old wannabe pilot needed. I crossed my 40 hours on my exam. Soloed at just over 5 hours. Fitzpatrik was a tuff old bastard but he put the right kind of fear in my kraut head right off the bat.

Flatland flying is at least a bit less tension, just give the storms a lot of respect. Lots of (hopefully) reasonable places to park below if need be. Travel out of the Midwest is nice when aviating because the hours of bored driving in mostly dull scenery is avoided. I was born and grew up my early years mostly in Kansas and Florida. FLAT.

Now I live in Eastern Oklahoma which is a lot of lakes,trees,and hills. Not so many nice parking places if need be.
I'll be flying off my 40 hours at Cushing airport. Flat.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2021 10:43 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Flight report

Hi Vern,

Flying behind a modified Jabiru 3300.  (Six banger, horizontally opposed). It is modified with liquid cooled heads and I have a Rotec throttle body injector, so normally aspirated. Mike Dwyer asked about the ignition. I have one magneto and one fixed advance electronic ignition, so basic stuff on both fuel and ignition.

Yep, need to be vigilant of winds and DA when operating in the mountains, but the scenery is great!

Cheers,
Jay

On Jun 12, 2021, at 2:59 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

﻿
Yes indeed! So the numbers prove that the Q design is still a serious CAFE contender. Jay, your flying with which powerplant? Normally aspirated (I presume), carb or injection?

It is important to have the actual service ceiling known in the aircraft operations info. I lived in the Taos area for quite a while. Better know your location and winds aloft ALL the time. Too many flatlanders ended up permanently parked out on the slopes because they let the Ego take over at pre-flight! I learned to fly in Arkansas so for me it was a transition, and again when I lived the Pacific Northwest (sometimes busy as I was flying from Paine Field in Everett where my employer at the time flys BIG airliners to and from).

When the day comes for this test I'll be hoping to see some similar numbers! 😊 Big grins. Squeekers are always good after a challenge flight.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2021 3:29 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Flight report

Took a flight this morning to check out my service ceiling. Sam mentioned that he thought I should do the service ceiling test during his comments at my hangar tour in April. I had filled the O2 bottle anticipating coming to Kevin’s fling in May and I never made it there, so I had some oxygen to experiment with. Took off with about 15 gallons of fuel and only me on board. The takeoff was at 6100’ DA and it got off smartly in less than 1500’ of runway.  I kept climbing steadily between 500 and 300 fpm showing around 105-110 mph IAS or around 125 TAS. Got up over 15,800 feet pressure altitude, and when it  slowed down, I grew bored of climbing at only 100 fpm, so I terminated the experiment. That was about 17,700 Density altitude, so I think I could climb to 18K pressure altitude on a standard day if I wanted to. At this point I pushed the nose over and got it trimmed up to fly level at a little over 15,800 PA. I was able to indicate 107 mph, which translated to 141 mph TAS and I was burning less than 4 gph! The wind was from the SW at 29 mph, so if I had turned to the NE and headed over the hills, I would have had minimum 2500’ feet clearance over the highest peaks and done 170 mph ground speed…at 4 gph, that would be very economical. The aircraft handling was solid during the entire flight. Controls were always agile. Also, the powerplant ran flawlessly all the way up and back down with no hesitations, roughness, heating/cooling problems, etc.

My conclusions: This airplane will do anything that I require it to do in order to fly safely in my high altitude environment, and I am very happy with the performance overall. Also, had a nice landing at the end. Smiley face. 😊

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ, 151 hours.

<image003.jpg>

Re: Panel Progress

Richard Thomson

Here is a picture of mine in the baggage hold, just a better quality glass filled nylon socket with size 12 pins. Dont forget to put inline fuses in the feed lines incase of short circuit.

Box is just a few plys of Bid.

Rich T.

On 10/06/2021 16:37, Corbin via groups.io wrote:
Ahh...that is an interesting idea, Richard.  I am off to research that socket.  Appreciate it!
--

Corbin
N121CG

Re: O-235 on Q2

Richard Thomson

Yep thats right, but he turned out to be a good guy after all !!

On 11/06/2021 23:25, Kevin Boddicker wrote:
First name same as yours?
On Jun 11, 2021, at 8:20 AM, Richard Thomson <richard@cloudland.co.uk> wrote:

﻿ Was he a fugitive Jerry ?

:-)

On 06/06/2021 14:09, Jerry Marstall wrote:
Kimb u ll

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io [mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Saturday, June 5, 2021 10:50 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] O-235 on Q2

Yep. That would be correct. Kimball McAndrew.
On Jun 5, 2021, at 5:20 PM, Chris Walterson <dkeats@tbaytel.net> wrote:
﻿ Years ago a fellow from Calgary Canada installed a 235 in his Q2. He is in the old newsletters somewhere.

I think his last name was Kimbell McAndrew or something like that. Some of the life long members may be able to

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