Date   

Re: Field Of Dreams!!

Bruce Crain
 

Yeah!  Bustin’ our grooves!


On Jul 21, 2021, at 11:01 AM, Rodney Herzig <zzigster@...> wrote:

 Wow! Sounds like we will be able to trip the light fantastic. Looking forward to it for sure.
<image0.png>



On Jul 21, 2021, at 11:49 AM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

New information on Field Of Dreams!  Vance Airforce is throwing a big 50th anniversary event with Big Band Dance venue and food truck on Friday night!!  Keston of WDG has offered free hanger to us for allowing the dance to be held in the joint use hanger.  Will put the airplane up after the event or in other hangers if needed.  It should be fun to watch the faces and explain our airplanes to the Vance Pilots!  Jerry Marstall thank you for your service and loaning us your flight training Alma Mater!  This looks to be a really big FOD and Saturday will again see folks showing up for WDG Fly In Breakfast and event!  Whoop whoop!!
Big big big!!
Bruce, Honey Lamb, Imraan and Rachel
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Re: Field Of Dreams!!

Rodney Herzig
 

Wow! Sounds like we will be able to trip the light fantastic. Looking forward to it for sure.



On Jul 21, 2021, at 11:49 AM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

New information on Field Of Dreams!  Vance Airforce is throwing a big 50th anniversary event with Big Band Dance venue and food truck on Friday night!!  Keston of WDG has offered free hanger to us for allowing the dance to be held in the joint use hanger.  Will put the airplane up after the event or in other hangers if needed.  It should be fun to watch the faces and explain our airplanes to the Vance Pilots!  Jerry Marstall thank you for your service and loaning us your flight training Alma Mater!  This looks to be a really big FOD and Saturday will again see folks showing up for WDG Fly In Breakfast and event!  Whoop whoop!!
Big big big!!
Bruce, Honey Lamb, Imraan and Rachel
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Field Of Dreams!!

Bruce Crain
 

New information on Field Of Dreams! Vance Airforce is throwing a big 50th anniversary event with Big Band Dance venue and food truck on Friday night!! Keston of WDG has offered free hanger to us for allowing the dance to be held in the joint use hanger. Will put the airplane up after the event or in other hangers if needed. It should be fun to watch the faces and explain our airplanes to the Vance Pilots! Jerry Marstall thank you for your service and loaning us your flight training Alma Mater! This looks to be a really big FOD and Saturday will again see folks showing up for WDG Fly In Breakfast and event! Whoop whoop!!
Big big big!!
Bruce, Honey Lamb, Imraan and Rachel
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Re: W and B

Jay Scheevel
 

Removing the passenger or adding the passenger (depending on how you look at it) is the only difference between the last two loading scenarios.
According to my calculations and using 163.4 pounds for the passenger, gives my a FS for the pass/pilot of 61.92" Of course if you are taller, more of the leg weight is farther forward, so the it does vary from passenger to passenger. Since I don’t have independent weights for the gas in each tank. I cannot compute the FS of the two tanks. You will need that for your certification papers.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Walterson
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 1:07 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Jay and Rich. I think one other variable is the scales I am using. They are certified , but meant to weigh 6,000 lb Otters and they read at
5 lb increments. For the tail wheel, I used a digital bathroom scale, that I calibrated with myself holding various known weights.

Thanks for the input, my "passenger/ daughter" will be pleased with the news, she lost weight.----------- Chris


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Re: W and B

Chris Walterson
 

Jay and Rich.  I think one other variable is the scales I am using.   They are certified , but meant to weigh 6,000 lb Otters and they read at 5 lb increments.  For the tail wheel, I used a digital bathroom scale, that I calibrated with myself holding various known weights.

 Thanks for the input, my "passenger/ daughter" will be pleased with the news, she lost weight.-----------  Chris


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Re: W and B

Jay Scheevel
 

Chris,

 

Here is what I have for you CG's It appears that the passenger is actually 163.4. I will have to do some more cyphering to come up with your pilot/passenger FS.

 

partial loading (pilot 160, full header, half main)

L-MG

36

505

18180

R-MG

36

465

16740

TW

217

37.5

8137.5

A/C

42.74

1007.5

43057.5

partial loading (pilot 160, full header, full main)

L-MG

36

525

18900

R-MG

36

490

17640

TW

217

40

8680

A/C

42.86

1055

45220

full loading (pilot 160, pass 180??, full fuel, full header)

L-MG

36

580

20880

R-MG

36

575

20700

TW

217

63.4

13757.8

A/C

45.42

1218.4

55337.8

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 8:07 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

 

    Should you be using Full header for the lightweight calcs, That will make some difference to Fwd CG will it not ?

 

    Rich T.

 

On 18/07/2021 17:20, Chris Walterson wrote:

>   Here you go Jay.

>  The station for my main wheels is  36 [22+14]

>  The station for the tail wheel is 217  [203+14]

>  Empty ---- left 365  right  370 tail 14.4

>  160 lb pilot and full header Pilot 160, Passenger 180, full header,

> full main

>   Left 485, right 450, tail 36.4 Left 580, right575, tail 63.4

>   160 lb pilot full header 1/2 main

>   Left 505, right 465, tail 37.8

> 160 lb pilot , full header, full main

> Left 525, right 490, tail 40

>  The weighing was done with certified scales and real fuel and real

> people. See what you come up with.. --  Chris

> \

 

 

 


Re: W and B

Richard Thomson
 

Should you be using Full header for the lightweight calcs, That will make some difference to Fwd CG will it not ?

    Rich T.

On 18/07/2021 17:20, Chris Walterson wrote:
  Here you go Jay.

 The station for my main wheels is  36 [22+14]

 The station for the tail wheel is 217  [203+14]

 Empty ---- left 365  right  370 tail 14.4

 160 lb pilot and full header Pilot 160, Passenger 180, full header, full main

  Left 485, right 450, tail 36.4 Left 580, right575, tail 63.4

  160 lb pilot full header 1/2 main

  Left 505, right 465, tail 37.8

160 lb pilot , full header, full main

Left 525, right 490, tail 40


 The weighing was done with certified scales and real fuel and real people. See what you come up with.. --  Chris



\































































Re: W and B

Chris Walterson
 

My station for my mains and tail are different from the conventional. I have an inboard gear design and my tail spring is not the standard Q spring.  For my Dattum I am using  14 inches ahead of the firewall.

 Don't be shy to critic. Combined knowledge is great.    Chris


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Re: W and B

Chris Walterson
 

Here you go Jay.

 The station for my main wheels is  36 [22+14]

 The station for the tail wheel is 217  [203+14]

 Empty ---- left 365  right  370 tail 14.4

 160 lb pilot and full header Pilot 160, Passenger 180, full header, full main

  Left 485, right 450, tail 36.4 Left 580, right575, tail 63.4

  160 lb pilot full header 1/2 main

  Left 505, right 465, tail 37.8

160 lb pilot , full header, full main

Left 525, right 490, tail 40


 The weighing was done with certified scales and real fuel and real people. See what you come up with.. --  Chris



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Re: W and B

smeshno1@...
 

 The first half of the main tank fill was probably with "benzine lite" as my wife likes to call low octane. :-)  
Being married to an overseas lady sometimes can be an adventure in communication, almost like ATC
when flying in Class B airspace!! 

 Chris.. do you have a MKI or MKII config canard?  Jay is correct..need to see what you are seeing. 

Ya..umm..about that ballast topic. I'll make note in my build planning to avoid that oopsy so as to be sure 
not to reduce my receiving home cooking options.

Vern
Mit dem FrankenVogel. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 7:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B
 
Hi Chris,

Something is still not right. If you add the pilot and 1/2 main tank, both are aft of the FS 42.78 mark. There is no way that the CG will move slightly forward to 42.7. Please post the numbers you measured and we can all noodle it. This needs more eyes I think, unless I am really missing something.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Walterson
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

  Finished the W&B today. I need an extra 15lbs on the tail due to the front end weight. With the 15 lbs the empty weight is 754.

  With 160 lb pilot and full header it is at 971 lbs and  42.78

  With 160 lb pilot and full header and 1/2 main it is at 1007.8 and 42.7

With 160 lb pilot and full header and main it is at 1055 and 42.86

  With 160 lb pilot full header and main and 180 lb passenger it is at
1218.4 and 45.41

  Going to compare to the flying airplanes that are in the files section.

  By the way, don't refer to your wife and daughter as BALLAST.

  Guess I am eating out tonight. Take care----------------  Chris


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"Field Of Dreams" 2021

Bruce Crain
 

Field Of Dreams is only a couple of months away!  Official dates are September 17,18,19 here at WDG in Enid, Oklahoma!  If you need a couple of extra days due to weather or any hiccups we will accommodate!  No better way to enjoy friends and get hands on experience while looking at Quickies and Dragonflys.  Lots of expertise to glean from a group of wonderful guys and gals with beautiful aircraft!  Come on down and have a great time!
Check the URL for info and to RSVP.  And once again you can thank Rachel Faruque for setting up this site for us!  She's the best!
 
fieldofdreamsreunion.weebly.com
 
Bruce and Honey Lamb Crain and Rachel and Imran Faruque



Re: W and B

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Chris,

Something is still not right. If you add the pilot and 1/2 main tank, both are aft of the FS 42.78 mark. There is no way that the CG will move slightly forward to 42.7. Please post the numbers you measured and we can all noodle it. This needs more eyes I think, unless I am really missing something.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Walterson
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Finished the W&B today. I need an extra 15lbs on the tail due to the front end weight. With the 15 lbs the empty weight is 754.

With 160 lb pilot and full header it is at 971 lbs and 42.78

With 160 lb pilot and full header and 1/2 main it is at 1007.8 and 42.7

With 160 lb pilot and full header and main it is at 1055 and 42.86

With 160 lb pilot full header and main and 180 lb passenger it is at
1218.4 and 45.41

Going to compare to the flying airplanes that are in the files section.

By the way, don't refer to your wife and daughter as BALLAST.

Guess I am eating out tonight. Take care---------------- Chris


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Re: W and B

Mike Dwyer
 

I took a 275 lb passenger for a ride and found mild PIO conditions until I remembered to go down on the ailerons with the Reflexer.  Prior to this I'd never used down ailerons.  That made the plane return to normal.  I'm pretty sure I found the max rear CG limit.
Mike Dwyer

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 4:46 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
Approach adding 15 lbs aft carefully.  One of our TriQ200 had 9 lbs added way back in the tail.  It made the Q almost uncontrollable with two in the cockpit as it wanted to PIO badly!
Bruce Crain
> On Jul 17, 2021, at 12:56 PM, Chris Walterson <dkeats@...> wrote:
>
>  Finished the W&B today. I need an extra 15lbs on the tail due to the front end weight. With the 15 lbs the empty weight is 754.
>
>  With 160 lb pilot and full header it is at 971 lbs and  42.78
>
>  With 160 lb pilot and full header and 1/2 main it is at 1007.8 and 42.7
>
> With 160 lb pilot and full header and main it is at 1055 and 42.86
>
>  With 160 lb pilot full header and main and 180 lb passenger it is at 1218.4 and 45.41
>
>  Going to compare to the flying airplanes that are in the files section.
>
>  By the way, don't refer to your wife and daughter as BALLAST.
>
>  Guess I am eating out tonight. Take care----------------  Chris
>
>
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> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: W and B

Chris Walterson
 

Bruce----------  Sounds more like a W&B issue than just weight placement.

 With my airplane sitting level, there is only 5 lbs on the tail wheel.  Most of the well flying airplanes have around 18

lbs on the tail.  Whether I add a thirty pound battery in the back, or add 13 lbs in the tail, it still gets 18 lbs on the tail wheel and with the latter I save extra weight.

 Test time will tell. Thanks for the input--------------  Chris


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Re: W and B

Bruce Crain
 

Approach adding 15 lbs aft carefully. One of our TriQ200 had 9 lbs added way back in the tail. It made the Q almost uncontrollable with two in the cockpit as it wanted to PIO badly!
Bruce Crain
On Jul 17, 2021, at 12:56 PM, Chris Walterson <dkeats@tbaytel.net> wrote:

 Finished the W&B today. I need an extra 15lbs on the tail due to the front end weight. With the 15 lbs the empty weight is 754.

With 160 lb pilot and full header it is at 971 lbs and 42.78

With 160 lb pilot and full header and 1/2 main it is at 1007.8 and 42.7

With 160 lb pilot and full header and main it is at 1055 and 42.86

With 160 lb pilot full header and main and 180 lb passenger it is at 1218.4 and 45.41

Going to compare to the flying airplanes that are in the files section.

By the way, don't refer to your wife and daughter as BALLAST.

Guess I am eating out tonight. Take care---------------- Chris


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Re: W and B

Chris Walterson
 

Finished the W&B today. I need an extra 15lbs on the tail due to the front end weight. With the 15 lbs the empty weight is 754.

 With 160 lb pilot and full header it is at 971 lbs and  42.78

 With 160 lb pilot and full header and 1/2 main it is at 1007.8 and 42.7

With 160 lb pilot and full header and main it is at 1055 and 42.86

 With 160 lb pilot full header and main and 180 lb passenger it is at 1218.4 and 45.41

 Going to compare to the flying airplanes that are in the files section.

 By the way, don't refer to your wife and daughter as BALLAST.

 Guess I am eating out tonight. Take care----------------  Chris


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Re: W&B

Jim Patillo
 

Chris my Q200 Taildragger weighs 740 lbs empty and 1340 gross. The cg. is from 41.7 to 47.5, if I remember correctly. Fully loaded, the airplane is at the aft cg. of 47.5. 

Pilot only, 5 gal. header only, no bags, forward cg
Pilot only, with 20 gal. fuel, mid cg.
Pilot and passenger only with 20 gal fuel, mid cg.

Pilot and passenger with full main, full header, 6 gal aux tank and small amount of baggage behind pilot, aft cg.

Hope that helps narrow your issue down. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Chris Walterson <dkeats@...>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2021 4:04:44 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] W&B
 
Still doing my W&B.  I have most of my hair pulled outand was reading
the Q manual.

  On page 4-3 it shows the sample loading problem. It has the total
weight being 822 and the moment being 36607.7. If you divide the moment
by the weight you get 44.5.  On page 4-4 you can see that puts the CG
back, outside  of the envelope.

  Is is wrong or is it a trick problem?  Take care------------- Chris


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Re: W&B

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Chris,

Don't use the Q2 POH. The Q200 expanded the cg range from 42-44 in the Q2 to 42-47.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Walterson
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2021 5:05 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] W&B

Still doing my W&B. I have most of my hair pulled outand was reading the Q manual.

On page 4-3 it shows the sample loading problem. It has the total weight being 822 and the moment being 36607.7. If you divide the moment by the weight you get 44.5. On page 4-4 you can see that puts the CG back, outside of the envelope.

Is is wrong or is it a trick problem? Take care------------- Chris


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W&B

Chris Walterson
 

Still doing my W&B.  I have most of my hair pulled outand was reading the Q manual.

 On page 4-3 it shows the sample loading problem. It has the total weight being 822 and the moment being 36607.7. If you divide the moment by the weight you get 44.5.  On page 4-4 you can see that puts the CG back, outside  of the envelope.

 Is is wrong or is it a trick problem?  Take care------------- Chris


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Re: O-200 with very low hours 80ish had prop strike but supposed to have no Crank damage. 4,000$

Brian Hutchinson
 

Victor hadn't updated the group on this so here is what I had heard from him. Upon inspection the crankshaft appears to in fact have damage as well as associated bearings. 

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