Date   

Re: Wasn't meant to be

Jerry Marstall
 

Been there. Done that 


On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 8:50 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
You need to move out here, Jerry ;-)

Cheers,
Jay 


On Sep 16, 2021, at 5:27 PM, Jerry Marstall <jerrylm1986@...> wrote:



  Even if I was still planning to be at FOD, it wouldn’t have happened.  Weather!!!  Can’t get out and wouldn’t have be able to get back.  There is always next year.  Everybody, get your shots.

Jerry


Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

David J. Gall
 

Ha-ha! Touche! Yes, of course you are right. Not owning a -18°C freezer, I was thinking of room temperature cure low-vacuum consolidation to achieve ~50% resin content, not prepreg…. I can’t wait to see your finished bird!

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Cringely
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 2:48 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

 

That may all be true, but the nature of composite aircraft is that they are vastly overbuilt simply because building to the strength requirements alone yields a structure that is too fragile -- too susceptible to hangar rash. A ply is a ply and while it would be ideal to use 0.8  plies or 1.2 plies, in the end we use two or three. So your fiber may be superior to my fiber, but they are both good enough. Here I have locally-sourced pre-preg that has good (not great) characteristics plus the very real advantage of 45 percent resin content. Build it from your stuff and it won't be any stronger or lighter by the time it gets in service.

 

Thirty years ago I worked with Martin Hollmann who did the structural designs of all the Lancairs up through the L-IVP. A guy wanted to fly his Lancair 320 around the world so he asked Martin to take as much weight out of the kit as possible. This meant moving to S-glass and changing both ply schedules and core materials. We took more than 200 lbs out of that L-320. The service limits were lowered a little but it was still plenty strong. But the builder decided against it when we explained typical hangar rash could compromise his fuel tanks. REAL WORLD composite design comes down to such things and in that real world high-crystalline cellulose or flax don't make a difference.

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 2:18 PM David J. Gall <David@...> wrote:

Flax is inferior to highly-crystalline cellulose fiber for exactly the reasons mentioned below. Highly-crystalline cellulose fiber is nearly equivalent to E-glass in all respects except weight -- glass is much heavier -- and in sanding -- glass is itchier. Highly-crystalline cellulose fiber is mechanically derived from what would otherwise be wastes generated in lumber processing industries and is marketed worldwide under the trade name BioMid by Gordon Shank consulting. The roving is used as twine (you know it must be inexpensive!) in the hydroponics industry so availability will persist for a long time for numerous reasons. BioMid is available woven into cloth in the US from Absecon Mills and in Europe from FRP Services & Co (France).



-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rob de Bie
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 11:04 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Bob, when you mentioned flax fibers I peaked my ears! I've worked a bit with flax composites some 15 years ago. Is the material mature enough to use in an aircraft? I remember problems like no suitable sizings being available to optimize fiber-resin adhesion, moisture content during curing leading to degraded resin adhesion & quality, and moisture absorption during use leading to lower properties.
Sounded to me like it would a lot more development before it would be safe to fly. But it was 15 years ago.

I also remember reading in an eighties issue of 'Homebuilt aircraft' magazine that hot-wet test specimens could be good indicator of the longer-term quality of the fiber-resin adhesion. Sounded reasonable to me.

Rob

On 16 Sep 2021 17:39, Robert Cringely wrote:
> Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to
> which I am adding a tiny turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed
> since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine weight is around
> 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1
> because I don’t need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust
> line and to isolate the prop loads from the mystery metal Chinese
> crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have
> replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for stiffness.
>
> Bob
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io
> <http://groups.io> <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>     What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a
>     decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
>     There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market
>     introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.
>
>     Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite
>     rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical source of
>     carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The Chinese
>     suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have indicated
>     the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.
>
>











Hangin’ with the Crain’s

Bruce Crain
 

Watching Jimmeh Masal and Bob Malecek at Crain’s house.
B

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Re: Enid Brewery FOD!!!

Jay Scheevel
 

Wow. All the cool kids came early! See you all tomorrow

Cheers,
Jay

On Sep 16, 2021, at 5:28 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@juno.com> wrote:

Chowing down at Enid Brewery with all kinds of Kraft beer and Root Beer Floats sandwiches and lots of great eats!
Bruce


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<IMG_1076.jpg>


Re: Wasn't meant to be

Jay Scheevel
 

You need to move out here, Jerry ;-)

Cheers,
Jay 


On Sep 16, 2021, at 5:27 PM, Jerry Marstall <jerrylm1986@...> wrote:



  Even if I was still planning to be at FOD, it wouldn’t have happened.  Weather!!!  Can’t get out and wouldn’t have be able to get back.  There is always next year.  Everybody, get your shots.

Jerry


Enid Brewery FOD!!!

Bruce Crain
 

Chowing down at Enid Brewery with all kinds of Kraft beer and Root Beer Floats sandwiches and lots of great eats!
Bruce


____________________________________________________________
Choose to be safer online.
Opt-in to Cyber Safety with NortonLifeLock.
Plans starting as low as $6.95 per month.*
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Wasn't meant to be

Jerry Marstall
 

  Even if I was still planning to be at FOD, it wouldn’t have happened.  Weather!!!  Can’t get out and wouldn’t have be able to get back.  There is always next year.  Everybody, get your shots.

Jerry


Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Robert Cringely
 

That may all be true, but the nature of composite aircraft is that they are vastly overbuilt simply because building to the strength requirements alone yields a structure that is too fragile -- too susceptible to hangar rash. A ply is a ply and while it would be ideal to use 0.8  plies or 1.2 plies, in the end we use two or three. So your fiber may be superior to my fiber, but they are both good enough. Here I have locally-sourced pre-preg that has good (not great) characteristics plus the very real advantage of 45 percent resin content. Build it from your stuff and it won't be any stronger or lighter by the time it gets in service.

Thirty years ago I worked with Martin Hollmann who did the structural designs of all the Lancairs up through the L-IVP. A guy wanted to fly his Lancair 320 around the world so he asked Martin to take as much weight out of the kit as possible. This meant moving to S-glass and changing both ply schedules and core materials. We took more than 200 lbs out of that L-320. The service limits were lowered a little but it was still plenty strong. But the builder decided against it when we explained typical hangar rash could compromise his fuel tanks. REAL WORLD composite design comes down to such things and in that real world high-crystalline cellulose or flax don't make a difference.



On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 2:18 PM David J. Gall <David@...> wrote:
Flax is inferior to highly-crystalline cellulose fiber for exactly the reasons mentioned below. Highly-crystalline cellulose fiber is nearly equivalent to E-glass in all respects except weight -- glass is much heavier -- and in sanding -- glass is itchier. Highly-crystalline cellulose fiber is mechanically derived from what would otherwise be wastes generated in lumber processing industries and is marketed worldwide under the trade name BioMid by Gordon Shank consulting. The roving is used as twine (you know it must be inexpensive!) in the hydroponics industry so availability will persist for a long time for numerous reasons. BioMid is available woven into cloth in the US from Absecon Mills and in Europe from FRP Services & Co (France).



-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rob de Bie
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 11:04 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Bob, when you mentioned flax fibers I peaked my ears! I've worked a bit with flax composites some 15 years ago. Is the material mature enough to use in an aircraft? I remember problems like no suitable sizings being available to optimize fiber-resin adhesion, moisture content during curing leading to degraded resin adhesion & quality, and moisture absorption during use leading to lower properties.
Sounded to me like it would a lot more development before it would be safe to fly. But it was 15 years ago.

I also remember reading in an eighties issue of 'Homebuilt aircraft' magazine that hot-wet test specimens could be good indicator of the longer-term quality of the fiber-resin adhesion. Sounded reasonable to me.

Rob

On 16 Sep 2021 17:39, Robert Cringely wrote:
> Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to
> which I am adding a tiny turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed
> since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine weight is around
> 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1
> because I don’t need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust
> line and to isolate the prop loads from the mystery metal Chinese
> crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have
> replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for stiffness.
>
> Bob
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io
> <http://groups.io> <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>     What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a
>     decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
>     There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market
>     introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.
>
>     Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite
>     rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical source of
>     carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The Chinese
>     suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have indicated
>     the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.
>
>












Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

David J. Gall
 

Flax is inferior to highly-crystalline cellulose fiber for exactly the reasons mentioned below. Highly-crystalline cellulose fiber is nearly equivalent to E-glass in all respects except weight -- glass is much heavier -- and in sanding -- glass is itchier. Highly-crystalline cellulose fiber is mechanically derived from what would otherwise be wastes generated in lumber processing industries and is marketed worldwide under the trade name BioMid by Gordon Shank consulting. The roving is used as twine (you know it must be inexpensive!) in the hydroponics industry so availability will persist for a long time for numerous reasons. BioMid is available woven into cloth in the US from Absecon Mills and in Europe from FRP Services & Co (France).

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rob de Bie
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 11:04 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Bob, when you mentioned flax fibers I peaked my ears! I've worked a bit with flax composites some 15 years ago. Is the material mature enough to use in an aircraft? I remember problems like no suitable sizings being available to optimize fiber-resin adhesion, moisture content during curing leading to degraded resin adhesion & quality, and moisture absorption during use leading to lower properties.
Sounded to me like it would a lot more development before it would be safe to fly. But it was 15 years ago.

I also remember reading in an eighties issue of 'Homebuilt aircraft' magazine that hot-wet test specimens could be good indicator of the longer-term quality of the fiber-resin adhesion. Sounded reasonable to me.

Rob

On 16 Sep 2021 17:39, Robert Cringely wrote:
Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to
which I am adding a tiny turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed
since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine weight is around
50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1
because I don’t need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust
line and to isolate the prop loads from the mystery metal Chinese
crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have
replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for stiffness.

Bob

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io
<http://groups.io> <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>> wrote:

What diesel engine are you considering? I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a
decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market
introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.

Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives. He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite
rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work. Graphlite is no longer a practical source of
carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material. The Chinese
suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost. Preliminary tests have indicated
the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.


Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Robert Cringely
 

No thanks. This is not at all a critical design. Since it is a wet wing I have had to add an extra ply that is completely redundant and WAY overbuilds the structure. Also the LS-1 wing is a little shorter, reducing landing loads somewhat. I had my buddy who is a design engineer at SCALED Composites run the ply schedule through his computer and he also said it's overbuilt, though the actual structure will likely be lighter because it is pre-preg with much tighter resin control. Yes, we've built and tested coupons.


On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:44 PM Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
Nice site, decent data. But most applications look mostly cosmetic and/or low loaded. I think you
are pioneering with the material, make really sure that you are safe! Like with those hot/wet
specimens to check long-term resin adhesion. Should I look up that article to give you some guidance?

Rob


On 16 Sep 2021 20:27, Robert Cringely wrote:
> It seems to be working fine for me: https://lingrove.com/ekoa-prepregs
> <https://lingrove.com/ekoa-prepregs>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 11:04 AM Rob de Bie <robdebie@... <mailto:robdebie@...>> wrote:
>
>     Bob, when you mentioned flax fibers I peaked my ears! I've worked a bit with flax composites
>     some 15
>     years ago. Is the material mature enough to use in an aircraft? I remember problems like no
>     suitable
>     sizings being available to optimize fiber-resin adhesion, moisture content during curing leading to
>     degraded resin adhesion & quality, and moisture absorption during use leading to lower properties.
>     Sounded to me like it would a lot more development before it would be safe to fly. But it was 15
>     years ago.
>
>     I also remember reading in an eighties issue of 'Homebuilt aircraft' magazine that hot-wet test
>     specimens could be good indicator of the longer-term quality of the fiber-resin adhesion. Sounded
>     reasonable to me.
>
>     Rob
>
>     On 16 Sep 2021 17:39, Robert Cringely wrote:
>      > Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to which I am adding a tiny
>      > turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed since you looked is probably direct injection.
>     Engine
>      > weight is around 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1 because I
>     don’t
>      > need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust line and to isolate the prop loads from the
>      > mystery metal Chinese crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have
>      > replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax
>      > fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat
>     added for
>      > stiffness.
>      >
>      > Bob
>      >
>      > On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io <http://groups.io> <http://groups.io
>     <http://groups.io>> <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>
>      > <mailto:aol.com@groups.io <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >     What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a
>      >     decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
>      >     There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market
>      >     introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.
>      >
>      >     Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite
>      >     rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical
>     source of
>      >     carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The
>     Chinese
>      >     suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have
>     indicated
>      >     the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.
>      >
>      >
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Rob de Bie
 

Nice site, decent data. But most applications look mostly cosmetic and/or low loaded. I think you are pioneering with the material, make really sure that you are safe! Like with those hot/wet specimens to check long-term resin adhesion. Should I look up that article to give you some guidance?

Rob

On 16 Sep 2021 20:27, Robert Cringely wrote:
It seems to be working fine for me: https://lingrove.com/ekoa-prepregs <https://lingrove.com/ekoa-prepregs>
On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 11:04 AM Rob de Bie <robdebie@xs4all.nl <mailto:robdebie@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Bob, when you mentioned flax fibers I peaked my ears! I've worked a bit with flax composites
some 15
years ago. Is the material mature enough to use in an aircraft? I remember problems like no
suitable
sizings being available to optimize fiber-resin adhesion, moisture content during curing leading to
degraded resin adhesion & quality, and moisture absorption during use leading to lower properties.
Sounded to me like it would a lot more development before it would be safe to fly. But it was 15
years ago.
I also remember reading in an eighties issue of 'Homebuilt aircraft' magazine that hot-wet test
specimens could be good indicator of the longer-term quality of the fiber-resin adhesion. Sounded
reasonable to me.
Rob
On 16 Sep 2021 17:39, Robert Cringely wrote:
> Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to which I am adding a tiny
> turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed since you looked is probably direct injection.
Engine
> weight is around 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1 because I
don’t
> need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust line and to isolate the prop loads from the
> mystery metal Chinese crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have
> replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax
> fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat
added for
> stiffness.
>
> Bob
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io <http://groups.io> <http://groups.io
<http://groups.io>> <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>
> <mailto:aol.com@groups.io <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>>> wrote:
>
>     What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a
>     decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
>     There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market
>     introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.
>
>     Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite
>     rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical
source of
>     carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The
Chinese
>     suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have
indicated
>     the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.
>
>


Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Robert Cringely
 

I've looked at all of those and am well along. The design is frozen. This is my 9th homebuilt (I'm old).


On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 11:50 AM Chris Walterson <dkeats@...> wrote:
   If you are building a Quickie with the LS1 canard, you may want to
check out Waddlow. He has a process of building without using the carbon
spars.  Also check out Dragonfly airplanes, they have carbon fiber, but
nothing is premade and expensive.

You may  want to use the original layup for the GU and add carbon uni to
compensate for the thickness.  The calculations would have to be done by
someone much smarter than me.

  Maybe Terry can jump in on how he built his LS.  It is well proven to
work.----------  Take care---------------  Chris


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus







Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Chris Walterson
 

If you are building a Quickie with the LS1 canard, you may want to check out Waddlow. He has a process of building without using the carbon spars.  Also check out Dragonfly airplanes, they have carbon fiber, but nothing is premade and expensive.

You may  want to use the original layup for the GU and add carbon uni to compensate for the thickness.  The calculations would have to be done by someone much smarter than me.

 Maybe Terry can jump in on how he built his LS.  It is well proven to work.----------  Take care---------------  Chris


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Robert Cringely
 

It seems to be working fine for me: https://lingrove.com/ekoa-prepregs


On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 11:04 AM Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
Bob, when you mentioned flax fibers I peaked my ears! I've worked a bit with flax composites some 15
years ago. Is the material mature enough to use in an aircraft? I remember problems like no suitable
sizings being available to optimize fiber-resin adhesion, moisture content during curing leading to
degraded resin adhesion & quality, and moisture absorption during use leading to lower properties.
Sounded to me like it would a lot more development before it would be safe to fly. But it was 15
years ago.

I also remember reading in an eighties issue of 'Homebuilt aircraft' magazine that hot-wet test
specimens could be good indicator of the longer-term quality of the fiber-resin adhesion. Sounded
reasonable to me.

Rob

On 16 Sep 2021 17:39, Robert Cringely wrote:
> Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to which I am adding a tiny
> turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine
> weight is around 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1 because I don’t
> need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust line and to isolate the prop loads from the
> mystery metal Chinese crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have
> replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax
> fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for
> stiffness.
>
> Bob
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io <http://groups.io> <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io
> <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>     What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a
>     decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
>     There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market
>     introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.
>
>     Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite
>     rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical source of
>     carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The Chinese
>     suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have indicated
>     the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.
>
>






Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Rob de Bie
 

Bob, when you mentioned flax fibers I peaked my ears! I've worked a bit with flax composites some 15 years ago. Is the material mature enough to use in an aircraft? I remember problems like no suitable sizings being available to optimize fiber-resin adhesion, moisture content during curing leading to degraded resin adhesion & quality, and moisture absorption during use leading to lower properties. Sounded to me like it would a lot more development before it would be safe to fly. But it was 15 years ago.

I also remember reading in an eighties issue of 'Homebuilt aircraft' magazine that hot-wet test specimens could be good indicator of the longer-term quality of the fiber-resin adhesion. Sounded reasonable to me.

Rob

On 16 Sep 2021 17:39, Robert Cringely wrote:
Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to which I am adding a tiny turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine weight is around 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1 because I don’t need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust line and to isolate the prop loads from the mystery metal Chinese crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for stiffness.
Bob
On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io <http://groups.io> <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>> wrote:
What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a
decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market
introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.
Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite
rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical source of
carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The Chinese
suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have indicated
the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.


Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Jay Scheevel
 

Sounds like a fun project, Bob. The DA-2 is an easy plane to work on, and to fly. I like the sound of your proposed fixes. Good luck.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Cringely
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 11:25 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

 

My DA-2A is a rebuild project I'm afraid. It was built in Midland and overseen by Leeon so you may recall it. Mine is the only DA-2A built with wing tanks. Like RV tanks they are removable sections of the inner leading edge. Mine leaked but are now sealed and I am adding a small header tank (four gallons) so everything from there can be gravity fed. It had a C-85 but also had a prop strike that somehow was never mentioned in the logs, so I ditched both the engine and the dangerously-clipped McCauley prop. The new engine is a Franklin Sport4 (125 hp) that bolts to the same Continental mount. It should be a good climber!

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 10:07 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

That’s one more coincidence. I knew Leeon Davis and his family in Midland TX, and Stanley Davis, Leeon’s brother, is the one who taught me to fly. I love that little boxy DA-2. It got more sleek as it evolved into the DA-5, which Leeon had plans get manufactured as a trainer, but alas, that never happened.  You should come to Enid this weekend, we probably would have a lot to talk about.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Cringely
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 11:00 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

 

I wasn’t aware of that. I also have a Davis DA-2A. 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 9:45 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Wow Bob,

 

You and Keith W. are like twins! Each of you with a T-18 and a Q1. What are the odds of that, I wonder?

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Cringely
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 10:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

 

I'm in Santa Rosa, CA but we are hoping to move shortly to escape the fires (we lost our home in 2017) so airplane progress is halting at best. Hopefully we'll end up near San Luis Obispo on the central coast where I have a flying job (I commute in my Thorp T-18).

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 9:10 AM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Hi Bob!  Where are you located?

Bruce

 

On Sep 16, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Robert Cringely <bob@...> wrote:



Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to which I am adding a tiny turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine weight is around 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1 because I don’t need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust line and to isolate the prop loads from the mystery metal Chinese crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for stiffness. 

 

Bob

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.

Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical source of carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The Chinese suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have indicated the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.

 


Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Robert Cringely
 

My DA-2A is a rebuild project I'm afraid. It was built in Midland and overseen by Leeon so you may recall it. Mine is the only DA-2A built with wing tanks. Like RV tanks they are removable sections of the inner leading edge. Mine leaked but are now sealed and I am adding a small header tank (four gallons) so everything from there can be gravity fed. It had a C-85 but also had a prop strike that somehow was never mentioned in the logs, so I ditched both the engine and the dangerously-clipped McCauley prop. The new engine is a Franklin Sport4 (125 hp) that bolts to the same Continental mount. It should be a good climber!




On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 10:07 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

That’s one more coincidence. I knew Leeon Davis and his family in Midland TX, and Stanley Davis, Leeon’s brother, is the one who taught me to fly. I love that little boxy DA-2. It got more sleek as it evolved into the DA-5, which Leeon had plans get manufactured as a trainer, but alas, that never happened.  You should come to Enid this weekend, we probably would have a lot to talk about.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Cringely
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 11:00 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

 

I wasn’t aware of that. I also have a Davis DA-2A. 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 9:45 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Wow Bob,

 

You and Keith W. are like twins! Each of you with a T-18 and a Q1. What are the odds of that, I wonder?

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Cringely
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 10:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

 

I'm in Santa Rosa, CA but we are hoping to move shortly to escape the fires (we lost our home in 2017) so airplane progress is halting at best. Hopefully we'll end up near San Luis Obispo on the central coast where I have a flying job (I commute in my Thorp T-18).

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 9:10 AM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Hi Bob!  Where are you located?

Bruce

 

On Sep 16, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Robert Cringely <bob@...> wrote:



Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to which I am adding a tiny turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine weight is around 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1 because I don’t need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust line and to isolate the prop loads from the mystery metal Chinese crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for stiffness. 

 

Bob

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.

Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical source of carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The Chinese suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have indicated the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.

 


Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Jay Scheevel
 

That’s one more coincidence. I knew Leeon Davis and his family in Midland TX, and Stanley Davis, Leeon’s brother, is the one who taught me to fly. I love that little boxy DA-2. It got more sleek as it evolved into the DA-5, which Leeon had plans get manufactured as a trainer, but alas, that never happened.  You should come to Enid this weekend, we probably would have a lot to talk about.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Cringely
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 11:00 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

 

I wasn’t aware of that. I also have a Davis DA-2A. 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 9:45 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Wow Bob,

 

You and Keith W. are like twins! Each of you with a T-18 and a Q1. What are the odds of that, I wonder?

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Cringely
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 10:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

 

I'm in Santa Rosa, CA but we are hoping to move shortly to escape the fires (we lost our home in 2017) so airplane progress is halting at best. Hopefully we'll end up near San Luis Obispo on the central coast where I have a flying job (I commute in my Thorp T-18).

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 9:10 AM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Hi Bob!  Where are you located?

Bruce

 

On Sep 16, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Robert Cringely <bob@...> wrote:



Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to which I am adding a tiny turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine weight is around 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1 because I don’t need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust line and to isolate the prop loads from the mystery metal Chinese crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for stiffness. 

 

Bob

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.

Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical source of carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The Chinese suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have indicated the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.

 


Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Robert Cringely
 

I wasn’t aware of that. I also have a Davis DA-2A. 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 9:45 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Wow Bob,

 

You and Keith W. are like twins! Each of you with a T-18 and a Q1. What are the odds of that, I wonder?

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Cringely
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 10:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

 

I'm in Santa Rosa, CA but we are hoping to move shortly to escape the fires (we lost our home in 2017) so airplane progress is halting at best. Hopefully we'll end up near San Luis Obispo on the central coast where I have a flying job (I commute in my Thorp T-18).

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 9:10 AM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Hi Bob!  Where are you located?

Bruce



On Sep 16, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Robert Cringely <bob@...> wrote:



Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to which I am adding a tiny turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine weight is around 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1 because I don’t need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust line and to isolate the prop loads from the mystery metal Chinese crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for stiffness. 

 

Bob

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.

Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical source of carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The Chinese suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have indicated the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.

 


Re: Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Jay Scheevel
 

Wow Bob,

 

You and Keith W. are like twins! Each of you with a T-18 and a Q1. What are the odds of that, I wonder?

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Cringely
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 10:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

 

I'm in Santa Rosa, CA but we are hoping to move shortly to escape the fires (we lost our home in 2017) so airplane progress is halting at best. Hopefully we'll end up near San Luis Obispo on the central coast where I have a flying job (I commute in my Thorp T-18).

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 9:10 AM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Hi Bob!  Where are you located?

Bruce



On Sep 16, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Robert Cringely <bob@...> wrote:



Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to which I am adding a tiny turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine weight is around 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1 because I don’t need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust line and to isolate the prop loads from the mystery metal Chinese crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for stiffness. 

 

Bob

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.

Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical source of carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The Chinese suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have indicated the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.

 

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