Date   

Re: Some Qs

Tim
 

Thanks Jay.

So finally got to a point today where I had elevator control rods ready.
It appears if they are fitted either side of the stick tube it creates excessive elevator movement when you roll… I think the design means that the elevators will move when the stick is moved for roll, but my elevator arms are moving about 10mm.

Having the plate at the front of the stick and thus the two rods closer together helps reduce this, I think… So will get that fitted.

Do you know how thick the plate is? I have your photos for the 2D plan, but not the thickness.


Re: Firewall with no engine

Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks Jon,

 

I had seen this video previously and it has some good advice, so I watched it again. I have two of Mike Busch’s books and have absorbed them, as well as most of John Schwanner’s Engine maintenance material. All very good stuff. It is all focused on LyCon engines as would be expected given the number of those operating and the tendency of homebuilders with odd engines to do their own maintenance.

 

I have more or less the same philosophy as you have with respect to treating my Jabiru as an alternative engine. I put in 1/4 turn fasteners on the cowl at the start, and my engine can be removed by unplugging everything at the firewall and never having to put a wrench on the backside of the firewall.

 

I consider my plane and engine combination to be a prototype, so I treat it that way. So far, my ad hoc engineering has been reliable, but the best way to keep it that way is to look things over very carefully. I have almost 200 hours on it so far, so I am getting close to entering the “goldilocks zone” very soon. I will probably taper off on the invasive inspections as time goes by, but I like being my own worst critic and that makes me err on the tedious side of inspections.

 

Thanks for your carefully thought out note and for sharing your experience over the years.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jon Finley
Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 8:09 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Mike Busch has put a really good video/article together regarding 'maintenance minimalism' or 'maintenance-induced failures'. I think it's worth watching. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHwtkZNSlPA

I've also built/flown behind several alternative/auto engines and felt that it was mandatory to keep a VERY close eye on them. I wore out MANY cowling nutplates/screws pulling that thing off after nearly every flight to check things (before I could afford quarter-turn fasteners).  In this scenario many items under the cowling (custom brackets, mounts, etc.) have zero 'fleet hours' on them - that's what the builder is accruing.  For me, this 'problem' was amplified since I was a hack.  At one point, I believed that if an item survived 20-30 hours it was going to last forever. Then I learned about how metal fatigues and started thinking I needed to watch things CLOSER the more hours I put on them.  Doh!!! :-)

So, IMO, there are some different scenarios that don't fit into the same mold. No doubt that finding a balance is the trick.

Now that I fly a Lycoming, I feel a bit guilty that I only remove the cowling every 50-75 hours (for an oil change). :-)

Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Re: Firewall with no engine

Jon Finley
 

Mike Busch has put a really good video/article together regarding 'maintenance minimalism' or 'maintenance-induced failures'. I think it's worth watching. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHwtkZNSlPA

I've also built/flown behind several alternative/auto engines and felt that it was mandatory to keep a VERY close eye on them. I wore out MANY cowling nutplates/screws pulling that thing off after nearly every flight to check things (before I could afford quarter-turn fasteners).  In this scenario many items under the cowling (custom brackets, mounts, etc.) have zero 'fleet hours' on them - that's what the builder is accruing.  For me, this 'problem' was amplified since I was a hack.  At one point, I believed that if an item survived 20-30 hours it was going to last forever. Then I learned about how metal fatigues and started thinking I needed to watch things CLOSER the more hours I put on them.  Doh!!! :-)

So, IMO, there are some different scenarios that don't fit into the same mold. No doubt that finding a balance is the trick.

Now that I fly a Lycoming, I feel a bit guilty that I only remove the cowling every 50-75 hours (for an oil change). :-)

Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Re: Firewall with no engine

Jerry Marstall
 

Very nice!


On Tue, Oct 5, 2021, 3:18 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I appreciate that point of view, Jim. I probably will do this less frequently once I know how things are wearing (like next year). When I do pull the engine, I take it off with the engine mount attached. All of the wiring to the engine remains intact and everything unplugs from the firewall. This is why it doesn’t take me long to remove and remount it. For now I am content with having a good look at things. For example, some things are impossible to see with the engine attached, such as the condition of rotor and distributor electrodes. Just too tight back there. A couple of hours of additional time on the annual is not a big commitment to be thorough.

 

Sometime, I hope you will get to see my installation. Perhaps I will make a trip your direction this fall.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 1:03 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Jay,

 

I continually monitor everything visually and check  the necessary torques and clearances as required but rarely have to pull the engine. You don’t pull your car engine every time you tune it .

 

Since you don’t have a lot of time on your engine, maybe you should pull it this time, check everything and skip removal on the next annual. It’s just your ass in the seat and you know about that stuff. 

 

Make it a Great  Day. 

 

Jim

N46JP Q200


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 10:43:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Good point, Charlie. But I am not doing any fixing, just looking thoroughly and doing the necessary wear checking. My installation is a one-off, so I treat it like a prototype with respect to inspections.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

 

 

But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

 

Charlie





 

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Re: Firewall with no engine

Jay Scheevel
 

I appreciate that point of view, Jim. I probably will do this less frequently once I know how things are wearing (like next year). When I do pull the engine, I take it off with the engine mount attached. All of the wiring to the engine remains intact and everything unplugs from the firewall. This is why it doesn’t take me long to remove and remount it. For now I am content with having a good look at things. For example, some things are impossible to see with the engine attached, such as the condition of rotor and distributor electrodes. Just too tight back there. A couple of hours of additional time on the annual is not a big commitment to be thorough.

 

Sometime, I hope you will get to see my installation. Perhaps I will make a trip your direction this fall.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 1:03 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Jay,

 

I continually monitor everything visually and check  the necessary torques and clearances as required but rarely have to pull the engine. You don’t pull your car engine every time you tune it .

 

Since you don’t have a lot of time on your engine, maybe you should pull it this time, check everything and skip removal on the next annual. It’s just your ass in the seat and you know about that stuff. 

 

Make it a Great  Day. 

 

Jim

N46JP Q200


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 10:43:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Good point, Charlie. But I am not doing any fixing, just looking thoroughly and doing the necessary wear checking. My installation is a one-off, so I treat it like a prototype with respect to inspections.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

 

 

But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

 

Charlie





 

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Re: Firewall with no engine

Jim Patillo
 

Jay,

I continually monitor everything visually and check  the necessary torques and clearances as required but rarely have to pull the engine. You don’t pull your car engine every time you tune it .

Since you don’t have a lot of time on your engine, maybe you should pull it this time, check everything and skip removal on the next annual. It’s just your ass in the seat and you know about that stuff. 

Make it a Great  Day. 

Jim
N46JP Q200


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 10:43:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine
 

Good point, Charlie. But I am not doing any fixing, just looking thoroughly and doing the necessary wear checking. My installation is a one-off, so I treat it like a prototype with respect to inspections.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

 

 

But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

 

Charlie






 

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Re: Firewall with no engine

Richard Thomson
 

Great earth point Jay, wished I had done that.

Rich T.

On 05/10/2021 18:43, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Good point, Charlie. But I am not doing any fixing, just looking thoroughly and doing the necessary wear checking. My installation is a one-off, so I treat it like a prototype with respect to inspections.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

 

 

But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

 

Charlie






 

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Re: Firewall with no engine

Jay Scheevel
 

Good point, Charlie. But I am not doing any fixing, just looking thoroughly and doing the necessary wear checking. My installation is a one-off, so I treat it like a prototype with respect to inspections.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

 

 

But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

 

Charlie






 

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Re: Firewall with no engine

One Sky Dog
 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!


But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Firewall with no engine

Jay Scheevel
 

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Re: Dark Past

Jay Scheevel
 

Kevin fixed it:
“Runner runner get-ur-done-er”

Cheers,
Jay


On Oct 4, 2021, at 4:17 PM, Kevin Boddicker <trumanst@...> wrote:

Runner, runner, chicken dinner.
That makes no sense.

Kevin

On Oct 4, 2021, at 1:30 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

The N-number for my Tri-Q2 N8WQ has a bit of a dark past (# used to be on a Beech DH-50). Have a look under narrative section:
<image001.png>


Re: Dark Past

J-Dubs
 

Missing the post accident fatality when their boss found out.


Re: Dark Past

Kevin Boddicker
 

Runner, runner, chicken dinner.
That makes no sense.

Kevin

On Oct 4, 2021, at 1:30 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

The N-number for my Tri-Q2 N8WQ has a bit of a dark past (# used to be on a Beech DH-50). Have a look under narrative section:
<image001.png>


Re: No Q-tour for October

Kevin Boddicker
 

Maybe we should do a live one.
If I can get EVERYBODY up to DEH, I could have my annual condition inspection done in a weekend!!
YA that’s it!!

Kevin

On Oct 4, 2021, at 12:56 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:

The Q-tour team is taking a rest this month.

That is all.

Sam


Dark Past

Jay Scheevel
 

The N-number for my Tri-Q2 N8WQ has a bit of a dark past (# used to be on a Beech DH-50). Have a look under narrative section:


No Q-tour for October

Sam Hoskins
 

The Q-tour team is taking a rest this month.

That is all.

Sam


Re: Quickie Q1 - Canard

Sam Hoskins
 

David, thank you for taking time to throughly explain the process. 

Sam

On Sun, Oct 3, 2021, 7:14 PM David J. Gall <David@...> wrote:

Eugen,

 

Read the plans as though the following image is a single page. The first paragraph shown here refers to the LAST drawing shown here and a drawing not shown here that is at the bottom of page 5-3; by use of the word “faced” the authors mean the 1.2” dimension that causes the blocks to become parallelograms in top view. This paragraph also refers to the outboard canard cores that are shown on page 5-4 (not shown here).

 

You ask: “Is it correct that the width of the middle segment is 42"?” The answer is “NO.” The second paragraph shown here refers to the FIRST drawing shown here. This is the center section and is only 20” span (width).

 

These blocks are all made from 7” x 14” x 41” blocks that were supplied in the kit; there are extra lines on all these drawings that indicate the joints where blocks need to be glued together to achieve the needed block size before hot-wiring. If you are using source blocks of different sizes, your joint lines may differ, but I point this out to help eliminate the confusion that may be caused by these lines.

 

The third paragraph shown here has no associated drawing. The cut line 20-A-B-C-D-E-23 is shown on the hot-wire templates and should be self-explanatory.

 

The fourth paragraph shown here refers to additional drawings (not shown here) that appear on page 5-3.

 

Finally, the cut line 33-F-G-H-I-32 removes the aft part of the canard center section that will be contained entirely within the fuselage. The templates are the same as are used for the portions of the canard outboard of the fuselage thus requiring this aft part for aerodynamic and structural support of the elevators, but within the fuselage this part is not only not required but would interfere with the elevator control torque tubes if retained, so is cut off along the 33-F-G-H-I-32 line.

 

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 1:15 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 - Canard

 

Hello Q-Groupe,

we are just about to cut the canard out of the foam. What is not clear to me at the moment is why the separation of the rear segments in the middle segment has to take place along line 33-F-G-H-32? For the part of the middle segment where it is connected to the fuselage it is clear, but beyond that? Attached is an excerpt.  The page in the Plans ist 5 - 2. 

 

Is it correct that the width of the middle segment is 42"? 

Best regards

Eugen 



Re: Quickie Q1 - Canard

David J. Gall
 

Eugen,

 

Additional to my last note, see page 10-5. The aft “elevator slot cores” are also removed along the line 33-F-G-H-I-32 for the remainder of the canard beyond the center section, but only AFTER laying up the elevator slots with one BID at plus/minus 45°. This yields a 78” long piece that will be re-attached to the aft edge of the canard after the canard is glassed. Glassing the canard before reattaching this piece creates a shear web from tip to tip just ahead of the trailing edge (hinge line) of the canard. Re-attaching the “elevator slot cores” establishes the aerodynamic fairing of the canard to the elevators outboard of the fuselage, but is not needed internal to the fuselage.

 

 

-David

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 1:15 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 - Canard

 

Hello Q-Groupe,

we are just about to cut the canard out of the foam. What is not clear to me at the moment is why the separation of the rear segments in the middle segment has to take place along line 33-F-G-H-32? For the part of the middle segment where it is connected to the fuselage it is clear, but beyond that? Attached is an excerpt.  The page in the Plans ist 5 - 2. 

 

Is it correct that the width of the middle segment is 42"? 

Best regards

Eugen 



Re: Quickie Q1 - Canard

David J. Gall
 

Eugen,

 

Read the plans as though the following image is a single page. The first paragraph shown here refers to the LAST drawing shown here and a drawing not shown here that is at the bottom of page 5-3; by use of the word “faced” the authors mean the 1.2” dimension that causes the blocks to become parallelograms in top view. This paragraph also refers to the outboard canard cores that are shown on page 5-4 (not shown here).

 

You ask: “Is it correct that the width of the middle segment is 42"?” The answer is “NO.” The second paragraph shown here refers to the FIRST drawing shown here. This is the center section and is only 20” span (width).

 

These blocks are all made from 7” x 14” x 41” blocks that were supplied in the kit; there are extra lines on all these drawings that indicate the joints where blocks need to be glued together to achieve the needed block size before hot-wiring. If you are using source blocks of different sizes, your joint lines may differ, but I point this out to help eliminate the confusion that may be caused by these lines.

 

The third paragraph shown here has no associated drawing. The cut line 20-A-B-C-D-E-23 is shown on the hot-wire templates and should be self-explanatory.

 

The fourth paragraph shown here refers to additional drawings (not shown here) that appear on page 5-3.

 

Finally, the cut line 33-F-G-H-I-32 removes the aft part of the canard center section that will be contained entirely within the fuselage. The templates are the same as are used for the portions of the canard outboard of the fuselage thus requiring this aft part for aerodynamic and structural support of the elevators, but within the fuselage this part is not only not required but would interfere with the elevator control torque tubes if retained, so is cut off along the 33-F-G-H-I-32 line.

 

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 1:15 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 - Canard

 

Hello Q-Groupe,

we are just about to cut the canard out of the foam. What is not clear to me at the moment is why the separation of the rear segments in the middle segment has to take place along line 33-F-G-H-32? For the part of the middle segment where it is connected to the fuselage it is clear, but beyond that? Attached is an excerpt.  The page in the Plans ist 5 - 2. 

 

Is it correct that the width of the middle segment is 42"? 

Best regards

Eugen 



Re: Quickie Q1 - Canard

 

I believe they have you wrap that with fiberglass sheet to create a spar and shear web.


On Sun, Oct 3, 2021, 3:15 AM Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...> wrote:
Hello Q-Groupe,

we are just about to cut the canard out of the foam. What is not clear to me at the moment is why the separation of the rear segments in the middle segment has to take place along line 33-F-G-H-32? For the part of the middle segment where it is connected to the fuselage it is clear, but beyond that? Attached is an excerpt.  The page in the Plans ist 5 - 2. 
 
Is it correct that the width of the middle segment is 42"? 

Best regards

Eugen 

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