Date   

Re: Forward slide canopy

Jim Patillo
 

Here’s a couple pictures that might help. 

Jim
N46JP Q200


Re: Forward slide canopy

Jay Scheevel
 

I added one piece needle bearing assemblies with stainless washers either side of my mount bolts (AN 4 bolts like Jim’s) in order to make them smooth and durable. So far so good.

Cheers,
Jay


On Oct 17, 2021, at 10:40 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:



Nick,

Like Jerry, my documentation wasn’t the best. I was more interested in getting the plane flying. My setup
is a one off. Others have used it since.

 If you are interested, give me a call and I can walk you thru it. As I said, the four arms are made of 1/4”x1”x12” black anodized aluminum stock. 4- AN4 bolts were used to connect the canopy to the fuselage. One over center latch on each side and keyed pin lock for
security. 


Jim 510-468-4891
N46JP Q200


Re: Forward slide canopy

Delaine Bowen
 

The following link is the manual for the KR-Super2.  In the section for the canopy there is a pretty detailed section on a gullwing canopy that was interesting reading.



Re: Forward slide canopy

Jim Patillo
 

Nick,

Like Jerry, my documentation wasn’t the best. I was more interested in getting the plane flying. My setup
is a one off. Others have used it since.

 If you are interested, give me a call and I can walk you thru it. As I said, the four arms are made of 1/4”x1”x12” black anodized aluminum stock. 4- AN4 bolts were used to connect the canopy to the fuselage. One over center latch on each side and keyed pin lock for
security. 


Jim 510-468-4891
N46JP Q200


Re: Forward slide canopy

Michael Dunning
 

Looks like plans for the Jim P. version are fairly well documented, now that we know about the 1/4" thickness dimension:

Q-talk 128 - Swing Bar Canopy Installation

Note the middle where it talks about gas struts in windy conditions... I can also add that if I never have to have my face 2 inches away from a compressed 200 lb gas strut while curled up in the foot well doing a replacement,  it won't be too soon!

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)


Re: Forward slide canopy

Jerry Marstall
 

Beautiful job of documenting.  Now I see where most of those 30+ years time was spent.  My documentation is on a napkin. 
J

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 8:33 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Ha Jerry! Mine is so far out there that I dare not comment!  However I do have “plans” on pages 48-96 in the following document:

 http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay


On Oct 17, 2021, at 5:39 AM, Jerry Marstall <jerrylm1986@...> wrote:


Jay, who are you to suggest staying with the original design???  Like you did??? Jerry 

On Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 10:57 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
A few people some years ago put in slides as you describe,Nick. They still require a small version of the swing over arms in order to have clearance for the slides. I think that they never really caught on because they were easy to get misaligned and bent. Too many moving parts. I suggest sticking with a proven design. My 2 cents.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Oct 16, 2021, at 6:28 PM, Nick Wright <nwright27@...> wrote:

I have plans for a forward slide (using drawer slides) for the Q bird. My airplane originally had the same installation shown in your picture. Wasn't very sturdy.


Re: Forward slide canopy

Jay Scheevel
 

Ha Jerry! Mine is so far out there that I dare not comment!  However I do have “plans” on pages 48-96 in the following document:

On Oct 17, 2021, at 5:39 AM, Jerry Marstall <jerrylm1986@...> wrote:


Jay, who are you to suggest staying with the original design???  Like you did??? Jerry 

On Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 10:57 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
A few people some years ago put in slides as you describe,Nick. They still require a small version of the swing over arms in order to have clearance for the slides. I think that they never really caught on because they were easy to get misaligned and bent. Too many moving parts. I suggest sticking with a proven design. My 2 cents.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Oct 16, 2021, at 6:28 PM, Nick Wright <nwright27@...> wrote:

I have plans for a forward slide (using drawer slides) for the Q bird. My airplane originally had the same installation shown in your picture. Wasn't very sturdy.


Re: Forward slide canopy

Nick Wright
 

Jim, my original canopy hinge was similar yet less sturdy. It had 1 piece of aluminum on either side and a makeshift hinge up front. This design allowed the canopy to rock back and forth and eventually break. Are there plans/instructions available for your design?


Re: Forward slide canopy

Jerry Marstall
 

Jay, who are you to suggest staying with the original design???  Like you did??? Jerry 


On Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 10:57 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
A few people some years ago put in slides as you describe,Nick. They still require a small version of the swing over arms in order to have clearance for the slides. I think that they never really caught on because they were easy to get misaligned and bent. Too many moving parts. I suggest sticking with a proven design. My 2 cents.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Oct 16, 2021, at 6:28 PM, Nick Wright <nwright27@...> wrote:

I have plans for a forward slide (using drawer slides) for the Q bird. My airplane originally had the same installation shown in your picture. Wasn't very sturdy.


Re: Forward slide canopy

Jim Patillo
 

 Good evening Nick,

My canopy design works well and is solid. I suspect the one you referenced used thin 1/8” aluminum stock and was flimsy,  which made opening and closing the canopy feel awkward. 

I originally had the “ turtle deck”  like most Q’s have. Then tried the slider you mentioned. IMO
the slider looked and felt like it didn’t belong on an airplane but in a cabinet. 

The reason I came up with this  was: 1. It gets real hot here in the Central Valley of California and straight thru airflow works great, 2. The canopy can’t be ripped off on the groundwith high winds and 3. I have a quick release canopy in that the canopy can be completely off in seconds. I used 1/4”x12” aluminum stock to make the 4 parallelogram pivoting arms. You simply lift and push forward to operate. The whole thing is simple and easy to fab. For what it’s worth. 

Jim 
N46JP Q200
1,800 + hours 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 7:57:42 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward slide canopy
 
A few people some years ago put in slides as you describe,Nick. They still require a small version of the swing over arms in order to have clearance for the slides. I think that they never really caught on because they were easy to get misaligned and bent. Too many moving parts. I suggest sticking with a proven design. My 2 cents.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Oct 16, 2021, at 6:28 PM, Nick Wright <nwright27@...> wrote:

I have plans for a forward slide (using drawer slides) for the Q bird. My airplane originally had the same installation shown in your picture. Wasn't very sturdy.


Re: Revmaster damage report

Frankenbird Vern
 

When Dave told me in Enid it was still running on final approach, and now seeing the photo's, to me it was near a miracle it wasn't a sudden lockup and instant dead stick prop. The proverbial "suddenly went all silent after the bang!" Scares me and I ain't afraid of nuthin but Kryptonite. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Raphael SF Zvetkoff <echopark1@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 9:41 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Revmaster damage report
 
If it was the wrist pin keeper it's surprising the cylinder wall doesn't have deep scoring and didn't squeal as it wore a grove on the cylinder wall.  It would have been smoking like crazy.  The bolt sounds more plausible.

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of smeshno1@... <smeshno1@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 12:18 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Revmaster damage report
 
That's funny Jon..in the sticks of Oklahoma almost any airplane is a UFO! Per Capita median income in the County the town of Pawhuska is located is less than 18k a year. One reason I moved to rural eastern Oklahoma. My SSA goes a lot farther than it did in Taos. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jon Finley <jd@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 6:51 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Revmaster damage report
 
Just WOW!  That's crazy Dave!  😲

I hope you find the piston pin in the sump so we can see what it looks like. However; I bet some kid in Oklahoma is running around with it telling his friends that a UFO dropped it when it flew over... 😉

Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Re: Forward slide canopy

Jay Scheevel
 

A few people some years ago put in slides as you describe,Nick. They still require a small version of the swing over arms in order to have clearance for the slides. I think that they never really caught on because they were easy to get misaligned and bent. Too many moving parts. I suggest sticking with a proven design. My 2 cents.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Oct 16, 2021, at 6:28 PM, Nick Wright <nwright27@...> wrote:

I have plans for a forward slide (using drawer slides) for the Q bird. My airplane originally had the same installation shown in your picture. Wasn't very sturdy.


Re: Revmaster damage report

Raphael SF Zvetkoff
 

If it was the wrist pin keeper it's surprising the cylinder wall doesn't have deep scoring and didn't squeal as it wore a grove on the cylinder wall.  It would have been smoking like crazy.  The bolt sounds more plausible.


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of smeshno1@... <smeshno1@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 12:18 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Revmaster damage report
 
That's funny Jon..in the sticks of Oklahoma almost any airplane is a UFO! Per Capita median income in the County the town of Pawhuska is located is less than 18k a year. One reason I moved to rural eastern Oklahoma. My SSA goes a lot farther than it did in Taos. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jon Finley <jd@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 6:51 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Revmaster damage report
 
Just WOW!  That's crazy Dave!  😲

I hope you find the piston pin in the sump so we can see what it looks like. However; I bet some kid in Oklahoma is running around with it telling his friends that a UFO dropped it when it flew over... 😉

Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Re: Forward slide canopy

Nick Wright
 

I have plans for a forward slide (using drawer slides) for the Q bird. My airplane originally had the same installation shown in your picture. Wasn't very sturdy.


Re: Forward slide canopy

Michael Dunning
 

Do you mean forward sliding or forward tipping, ala Jim Patillo? (Jealous!)



Not sure I've ever seen a strictly forward sliding Q2 canopy...
--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)


Forward slide canopy

Nick Wright
 

Hi all. Does anyone have the forward slide canopy on their Q2/200? I was originally going to install the forward hinge canopy but I seem to like the forward slide more and more.


Re: Fw: CCI VG&#65533;s

Frankenbird Vern
 

I will open/save to my Q build folder at the Lazy B on Monday at lunchtime. Been working on Tanker this time around (I call it the Wanker but then again I'm just an old gentleman pig now). The factory is a mess. Half finished stuff everywhere! Gotta grin a bit cause..kinda looks like my shop at home only on steroids!! Right now I'm at my boyhood "dream of flying" airport in Arlington Washington (I went to Junior High here). Mostly cloudy..broken overcast..a 10 to 15 breeze from the South but NOT raining as it has been for the last week or so. I don't see any Q's or Dragonfly types on the ramp but the ol C-47 is still here. Thank you Keith..I'm going to make my VG from flexible unobtainium and anodize them for good measure. Same as I got to see in Enid how Jay did his spinner.  Sparkly.. very sparkly. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Keith Welsh <kw544@...>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 8:37 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Fw: CCI VG&#65533;s
 

Hi Vern,
Thanks for showing interest in what I have regarding the Vortex Generators.
 
The VG's are also discussed in the Q-tour that I did.
I apologize that the template looks kinda crummy but it's been used off an on for 26 years now.
 
A couple things are attached. 
One is a group of photos of the placement and the requested dimension of the template that I made a loooong time ago. 
The last photo shows a cross section of one of the VG's showing a slight curve in the base which allowed them to set very nicely on the canard.
 
The second is all the info I had received from CCI.  I included the first page just to show that everyone goes through tough times from time to time.
His template drawing, which is on 8.5 x 11 paper, is what was used as a starting point for the template I ended up with, just angled a bit different.
I might add that the application adhesives recommended have changed over the years as you will notice as you read the instructions.
 
I've seen VG's similar to these in Aircraft Spruce's catalogue but I'm sure there are other outlets.
 
Maybe there is something you can draw from all this but that is what was going on in 1995.
Thanks for the interest.
Keith
 
 


Please note: forwarded message attached

From: Keith Welsh <k.welsh1@...>
To: kw544@...
Subject: CCI VG’s
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 13:25:02 -0400



____________________________________________________________

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Re: Revmaster damage report

Frankenbird Vern
 

That's funny Jon..in the sticks of Oklahoma almost any airplane is a UFO! Per Capita median income in the County the town of Pawhuska is located is less than 18k a year. One reason I moved to rural eastern Oklahoma. My SSA goes a lot farther than it did in Taos. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jon Finley <jd@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 6:51 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Revmaster damage report
 
Just WOW!  That's crazy Dave!  😲

I hope you find the piston pin in the sump so we can see what it looks like. However; I bet some kid in Oklahoma is running around with it telling his friends that a UFO dropped it when it flew over... 😉

Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Re: Revmaster damage report

Frankenbird Vern
 

It was a catastrophic..looks like a no warning fail. Jay has a good point..be looking at the rod cap bolt in hopes it's not down in the Pawhuska woods. Curious to see what the initial failure line looks like. So the point being, likely even when the engine was assembled, there would be no indication of a problem.  Could be where the bolts were made and more critically, by what process. ARP are the only acceptable rod bolts in Corvair conversions specifically because they are made to and exceed aerospace requirements. Do you know who made your rod bolts? In the decades I drove the hell out of my Corvairs, not once was there a rod bolt failure. I did have valve seat and valve spring retainer fails. My first 65 the day I got it from the car auction I purposely tried to grenade the engine, and at the time being 17 and 18 years old I did my flying on the ground drag racing A Gas class 427 Nova/Chevy II. I blew up all kinds of parts but the pancake 6 proved it was a tuff critter, even against my right lead foot! Drag racing found out quickly that Cubic Dollars, which I did not have in endless supply, was the only way to endure in that game. 11 moving violations on the street in one year and had to trade in the fast cars for a city bus with city driver included. But I learned some about how metals fail and aftermath still is interesting so to mitigate future incidences. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 11:44 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>; Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Revmaster damage report
 
Hi Jim
Headset was on and I still heard it pretty good. Felt it really good though. When I get the fuselage flipped over l will take pictures of the damage from the heat / fire.


On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 11:09 AM, Jim Patillo
<Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Hi Dave, 

Teflon “buttons” keep the rod pins in place from contacting the side walls, instead of relying on metal clips. Was there a really loud bang? 😮
That was one hell of an explosion. 

Jim 



From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2@...>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 6:38:45 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Revmaster damage report
 
Hi Robert. 
I don't understand what a Teflon button is. I'll be looking for the connecting rod bolt to see if it broke or loosened up, when I get the case apart.


On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 9:07 PM, Robert Cringely
<bob@...> wrote:
My VW experience was back in the 70s and 80s when I rebuilt the engine in my $1300 KR-1 MANY times. It never failed or even hiccoughed, but I always wanted more power. 1600, 1835, then 2180 lasted 1100+ hours until the hangar roof failed in a storm, crushing my little KR. I used it one year to commute from Palo Alto to Van Nuys for a teaching job. Oh, to be young again...

Snapping back to reality, it's clear that you broke a rod bolt but I think the piston pin failed first. It's also gone, and from the shape of that little end I'd say the big end was still intact when the (now pinless) little end started smashing into the bottom of the piston. Either a circlip failed or a teflon button melted. Sometimes those teflon buttons aren't really teflon, which is why Steve Bennett wouldn't touch them



On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 5:11 PM Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here's pictures of the pieces from the #1 cylinder, along with a picture of the crankcase. A lot of aluminum material of various sizes also found in the sump when I removed the oil drain assembly from the bottom of the crankcase. I'm going to split the case, hoping to see what's left of the connecting rod bolt, which I think was what failed.










Re: Revmaster damage report

Dave Dugas
 

Hi Jim
Headset was on and I still heard it pretty good. Felt it really good though. When I get the fuselage flipped over l will take pictures of the damage from the heat / fire.


On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 11:09 AM, Jim Patillo
<Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Hi Dave, 

Teflon “buttons” keep the rod pins in place from contacting the side walls, instead of relying on metal clips. Was there a really loud bang? 😮
That was one hell of an explosion. 

Jim 



From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2@...>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 6:38:45 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Revmaster damage report
 
Hi Robert. 
I don't understand what a Teflon button is. I'll be looking for the connecting rod bolt to see if it broke or loosened up, when I get the case apart.


On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 9:07 PM, Robert Cringely
<bob@...> wrote:
My VW experience was back in the 70s and 80s when I rebuilt the engine in my $1300 KR-1 MANY times. It never failed or even hiccoughed, but I always wanted more power. 1600, 1835, then 2180 lasted 1100+ hours until the hangar roof failed in a storm, crushing my little KR. I used it one year to commute from Palo Alto to Van Nuys for a teaching job. Oh, to be young again...

Snapping back to reality, it's clear that you broke a rod bolt but I think the piston pin failed first. It's also gone, and from the shape of that little end I'd say the big end was still intact when the (now pinless) little end started smashing into the bottom of the piston. Either a circlip failed or a teflon button melted. Sometimes those teflon buttons aren't really teflon, which is why Steve Bennett wouldn't touch them



On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 5:11 PM Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here's pictures of the pieces from the #1 cylinder, along with a picture of the crankcase. A lot of aluminum material of various sizes also found in the sump when I removed the oil drain assembly from the bottom of the crankcase. I'm going to split the case, hoping to see what's left of the connecting rod bolt, which I think was what failed.









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