Date   

Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Troy Zawlacki
 

Thank you all for the input on this. I have read various different opinions online but there is no better source than a seasoned group of pilots. 

My canard (LS1) was purchased by the previous owner of this kit back in the 80s from a company called Quality Aircraft Components (QAC, suspicious right?). For whatever reason, the anhedral angle is a little steeper than the plans, so I knew my plane would sit taller in the front than most, which is what led me to asking the question in the first place. 

Thank you again for chiming in, now I feel comfortable to proceed and mount the tail spring.

TAZ

On Jan 6, 2022, at 3:08 PM, Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:

Follow David Gall’s advice here.   It works.

Martin
On Jan 6, 2022, at 3:59 PM, David J. Gall <David@...> wrote:

TAZ,

Do the Jim-Bob six-pack (all six), do the alignment, and don't worry about the "ground angle of attack." That was a Gene Sheehan red herring that never made any sense except to deflect customer complaints. As long as your nose isn’t so high in the air as to cause the canard to be stalled while rolling with full aft stick you'll be fine.


David J. Gall


-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Troy Zawlacki
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:10 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io Group Moderators <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:

Q-pilots,

I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement. 

I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?

Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?

Sam, 

I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.

I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.

TAZ
















Re: Airport Operations at Commercial airports

Jay Scheevel
 

I had a friend whose dad used to say that locks are to keep honest people out. Terrorists tend to find a way to terrorize.

 

My solution to air travel security after 9/11 was to have a rack of single shot pistols at the boarding door of the plane, then issue one to each adult as they walk onto the plane, and collect them at the other end. Basically, the plane is going to go where everyone on board wants it to go. Any minority opinions would be greatly discouraged.

 

Of course, this recommendation never really caught on…. But it would have been cheaper than an entire government agency.

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Hole via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 4:12 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports

 

Before I retired in 2016 my home base was Sebastian, Florida (at Velocity).  Badges had been required for years.  Passcodes at the gates.  Pilot were expected to report anything suspicious. 

I was in a T-hanger when an unknown car and person drive up to the gate, went to his trunk and removed an old stop sign with a tether road, tossed it under the gate to trigger the exit-open and drove through. 

I called the local police and did not approach the guy.  Police first spoke to me, then to him.  Later they told me he had a pilot license and with 15 minutes of search was able to find and show them his badge.

I supposed throwing a stop sign must have been more convenient than remembering his passcode.

Rick Hole

 

,_


Re: Airport Operations at Commercial airports

Rick Hole
 

Before I retired in 2016 my home base was Sebastian, Florida (at Velocity).  Badges had been required for years.  Passcodes at the gates.  Pilot were expected to report anything suspicious. 

I was in a T-hanger when an unknown car and person drive up to the gate, went to his trunk and removed an old stop sign with a tether road, tossed it under the gate to trigger the exit-open and drove through. 

I called the local police and did not approach the guy.  Police first spoke to me, then to him.  Later they told me he had a pilot license and with 15 minutes of search was able to find and show them his badge.

I supposed throwing a stop sign must have been more convenient than remembering his passcode.

Rick Hole

 

,_


Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Martin Skiby
 

Follow David Gall’s advice here. It works.

Martin

On Jan 6, 2022, at 3:59 PM, David J. Gall <David@...> wrote:

TAZ,

Do the Jim-Bob six-pack (all six), do the alignment, and don't worry about the "ground angle of attack." That was a Gene Sheehan red herring that never made any sense except to deflect customer complaints. As long as your nose isn’t so high in the air as to cause the canard to be stalled while rolling with full aft stick you'll be fine.


David J. Gall


-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Troy Zawlacki
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:10 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io Group Moderators <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:

Q-pilots,

I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.

I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?

Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?

Sam,

I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.

I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.

TAZ










Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

David J. Gall
 

TAZ,

Do the Jim-Bob six-pack (all six), do the alignment, and don't worry about the "ground angle of attack." That was a Gene Sheehan red herring that never made any sense except to deflect customer complaints. As long as your nose isn’t so high in the air as to cause the canard to be stalled while rolling with full aft stick you'll be fine.


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Troy Zawlacki
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:10 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io Group Moderators <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:

Q-pilots,

I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.

I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?

Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?

Sam,

I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.

I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.

TAZ


Re: Airport Operations at Commercial airports

David J. Gall
 

“The badge manager and I had a discussion.  He believes that all pilots flying have some sort of training and badges that allow them to walk on the ramp.”

 

Your badge manager CLEARLY failed the TSA training he’s supposed to have attended. Please tell this bozo that the whole intent of the TSA training is to ENLIST the pilot population as ALLIES in surveillance, not to alienate them and cause resentment. Pilots are not “allowed” to walk on the ramp – pilots are EXPECTED to walk on the ramp and REPORT suspicious activity, not BE suspects in the eyes of the local autocrats. Sheesh. And a course on baggage handling and tug driving is for baggage handlers and tug drivers, not pilots. Double-sheesh!!

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 8:27 AM
To: Q_List <Q-List@groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports

 

Hi All,

Do any of you own/rent hangars at USA airports that have Scheduled airlines?

 

If so, I'd like to know how your airport handles TSA Badge requirements.

 

KPIE started charging a $20 a year badge fee and makes us take a TSA test on driving airport tugs and reporting bags that are left laying around... none of which we have at the General Aviation hangars!

 

The badge manager and I had a discussion.  He believes that all pilots flying have some sort of training and badges that allow them to walk on the ramp.  I told him that I could fly into any airport in the country and I don't need no stinking badge!  LOL.

 

Thanks,

Mike Dwyer Q200

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Frankenbird Vern
 

 This is in my build log also. My tailwheel spring is round steel..arc to meet the 8 degree ramp angle. I may end up 
setting a bit more arc since the MKII gear I have in works is more as the RV6..or Tailwind.  In any case my target is 8 
degrees as Jay provides here.      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 2:42 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle
 

Here is the factory prototype Q200 with a measurement on the firewall like Jim is suggesting (8 degrees from vertical).

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 1:40 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

 

Troy,

 

With the tail wheel on the ground and an inclinometer on the firewall


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:28:08 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

 

Problem is it has been a long time for lots of us from the time we went through this mod.  There are a lot of variables with respect to ground handling.  The Gall alignment,  bell crank that Jim Pattilo has on his Q200, differential braking with the rudder pedals or only having one "Johnson Bar" brake or two finger pull brakes with differential braking.  Several ways to improve the ground handling of which angle of attack is one of them.  I did what you are looking at plus I added a large non pneumatic tail wheel which helped.  Also the reflexor attached to the ailerons helps as well.  I converted mine to a TriQ 200 but flew as a Q200 for a while.  Tri Q is a different animal for ground control but slows it down a bit.  

You can do all of them if you like but many of our builders have different ideas about which one or two work best.  

You are looking the right direction to tame this bird so don't give up!  Trouble is I don't remember the numbers for degrees static.

Bruce Crain  N96BJ



---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Troy Zawlacki" <troyzc3@...>
To: "main@Q-List.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 11:10:26 -0800

Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

> On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:
>
> Q-pilots,
>
> I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.
>
> I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?
>
> Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?
>
> Sam,
>
> I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.
>
> I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.
>
> TAZ

 


Re: Airport Operations at Commercial airports

Frankenbird Vern
 

 Interesting.. so what happens to the 1 year limit inoperable, Charlie? Chop it up and truck it off to the dump? You remember some years ago when a ton of money was flowing into the renovation of airports in order to "stimulate" the economy? The airports were forced to take the funds even when the airport managers were saying (in my area anyway..and that would be Pouge Sand Springs and Alva Municipal specifically) that any "renovations" were totally not required.

 I remember asking about this when visiting the fields as a search for a home FBO base, and the managers were actually laughing at the idiocy of the money being forced on them regardless of the facts they repeatedly showed proof no improvements OR upgrades were required at the time at those GA airport.  Now we see the strings attached to the money. The government is here once again to help us. 

 By the way..my opinion is Pilots are among the most educated of peoples. I can't think of many other activities where risk is NOT ONLY to ourselves, but those below. By nature we are already in a protective mode of our own "turf", and especially when considering the aircraft represent a sizable dollar and time outlay.  

 Recently I was at Paine Field (KPAE). Its pretty difficult to get a more critical airfield than that one. It is Commercial Airline, GA, and Boeing Delivery INCLUDING military operations. Similar to Tulsa International in fact.  I have flown as PIC from both airport many times in the past. There is a passcode to access the gate for GA access. The pilots entering monitor anyone trying to piggyback in. No one enters without being questioned to the hilt OR they have passcode. Even then I suspect an unknown person would be challenged! 

Same as I did when I went to work at Boeing on the 767 Tanker every work day last October. We did not "hold the door" for anyone. No passcode..no entry.  

  No pilot was wearing badges at Paine Field that I observed, nor was required to that I heard.  

 What a stupid requirement, and it has nothing to do with gaining hangar space. If it is part of the ever expanding TSA garbage, do the D.C. idiots forcing this mandate think somehow an organized terrorist group can't forge a badge? Better to have the pilots themselves police GA as I observed personally at KPAE.  The only other conclusion is Charlie is correct. Cut out the private GA folks as much as possible, then piss and moan why there are fewer younger pilots and mechanics to support aviation of all kinds.     

 Vern.


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>; Q_List <Q-List@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports
 
New regulations for hangar use at KOGD proof city hates GA pilots and builders.

POLICY 2040 NONAERONAUTICAL USE OF AIRPORT HANGARS 



Charlie







On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 10:05 AM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

Mike,

Here is KOGD info it is a pain and Ogden City hates general aviation pilots and hangar owners.

Airport Badging | Ogden, UT 

Airport Badging | Ogden, UT




Charlie





On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 9:27 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:

Hi All,
Do any of you own/rent hangars at USA airports that have Scheduled airlines?

If so, I'd like to know how your airport handles TSA Badge requirements.

KPIE started charging a $20 a year badge fee and makes us take a TSA test on driving airport tugs and reporting bags that are left laying around... none of which we have at the General Aviation hangars!

The badge manager and I had a discussion.  He believes that all pilots flying have some sort of training and badges that allow them to walk on the ramp.  I told him that I could fly into any airport in the country and I don't need no stinking badge!  LOL.

Thanks,
Mike Dwyer Q200

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Sam Hoskins
 

Troy , I have to apologize. I was heading out to the hangar for a few things and I meant to measure my deck angle, that is, the angle on top of the fuselage just aft of the firewall.

I forgot.

I don't know how important it is with a tail dragger, really.  For me the main thing is to be able to see over the engine on rollout.  And for that, my tail spring is pretty muck in line with the fuselage.  Like this: https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/photo/115659/1394126?p=Created%2C%2C%2C100%2C2%2C0%2C0

Sam

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:04 AM Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:
Q-pilots,

I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.

I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?

Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?

Sam,

I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.

I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.

TAZ





Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Jim Patillo
 

Sorry about that. With the tail wheel on the ground and an inclinometer on the original canard template provided, the angle of incidence should be between 7.5 and 8 degrees for the canard. Presuming LS1 canard, if I remember correctly. My LS1 is mounted into the fuselage with 0 angle of incidence. 

Jim Patillo
N46JP O200
1830 hours 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:28:08 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle
 
Problem is it has been a long time for lots of us from the time we went through this mod.  There are a lot of variables with respect to ground handling.  The Gall alignment,  bell crank that Jim Pattilo has on his Q200, differential braking with the rudder pedals or only having one "Johnson Bar" brake or two finger pull brakes with differential braking.  Several ways to improve the ground handling of which angle of attack is one of them.  I did what you are looking at plus I added a large non pneumatic tail wheel which helped.  Also the reflexor attached to the ailerons helps as well.  I converted mine to a TriQ 200 but flew as a Q200 for a while.  Tri Q is a different animal for ground control but slows it down a bit.  
You can do all of them if you like but many of our builders have different ideas about which one or two work best.  
You are looking the right direction to tame this bird so don't give up!  Trouble is I don't remember the numbers for degrees static.
Bruce Crain  N96BJ


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Troy Zawlacki" <troyzc3@...>
To: "main@Q-List.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 11:10:26 -0800

Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

> On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:
>
> Q-pilots,
>
> I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.
>
> I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?
>
> Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?
>
> Sam,
>
> I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.
>
> I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.
>
> TAZ





Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Jay Scheevel
 

Here is the factory prototype Q200 with a measurement on the firewall like Jim is suggesting (8 degrees from vertical).

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 1:40 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

 

Troy,

 

With the tail wheel on the ground and an inclinometer on the firewall


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:28:08 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

 

Problem is it has been a long time for lots of us from the time we went through this mod.  There are a lot of variables with respect to ground handling.  The Gall alignment,  bell crank that Jim Pattilo has on his Q200, differential braking with the rudder pedals or only having one "Johnson Bar" brake or two finger pull brakes with differential braking.  Several ways to improve the ground handling of which angle of attack is one of them.  I did what you are looking at plus I added a large non pneumatic tail wheel which helped.  Also the reflexor attached to the ailerons helps as well.  I converted mine to a TriQ 200 but flew as a Q200 for a while.  Tri Q is a different animal for ground control but slows it down a bit.  

You can do all of them if you like but many of our builders have different ideas about which one or two work best.  

You are looking the right direction to tame this bird so don't give up!  Trouble is I don't remember the numbers for degrees static.

Bruce Crain  N96BJ



---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Troy Zawlacki" <troyzc3@...>
To: "main@Q-List.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 11:10:26 -0800

Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

> On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:
>
> Q-pilots,
>
> I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.
>
> I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?
>
> Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?
>
> Sam,
>
> I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.
>
> I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.
>
> TAZ

 


Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Jim Patillo
 

Troy,

With the tail wheel on the ground and an inclinometer on the firewall


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:28:08 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle
 
Problem is it has been a long time for lots of us from the time we went through this mod.  There are a lot of variables with respect to ground handling.  The Gall alignment,  bell crank that Jim Pattilo has on his Q200, differential braking with the rudder pedals or only having one "Johnson Bar" brake or two finger pull brakes with differential braking.  Several ways to improve the ground handling of which angle of attack is one of them.  I did what you are looking at plus I added a large non pneumatic tail wheel which helped.  Also the reflexor attached to the ailerons helps as well.  I converted mine to a TriQ 200 but flew as a Q200 for a while.  Tri Q is a different animal for ground control but slows it down a bit.  
You can do all of them if you like but many of our builders have different ideas about which one or two work best.  
You are looking the right direction to tame this bird so don't give up!  Trouble is I don't remember the numbers for degrees static.
Bruce Crain  N96BJ


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Troy Zawlacki" <troyzc3@...>
To: "main@Q-List.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 11:10:26 -0800

Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

> On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:
>
> Q-pilots,
>
> I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.
>
> I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?
>
> Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?
>
> Sam,
>
> I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.
>
> I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.
>
> TAZ





Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Troy,

Here is Mike’s airplane’s set up with respect to the Canard AOA at takeoff (first image) and landing (second image) 😉

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 1:31 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

 

Well, I can say that I set up my tail wheel according to the plans and it has been perfect.

 

The factory plane had a tail wheel like this:

I've never liked it when people use steerable ones like this for the drag penalty they pay:  

  

 

Factory Q200 pictures:

 

Since we are talking about Q200 tail wheels, let me add that the tail spring size is way too small.  You need to wrap the tail spring many times with fiberglass to build it up in diameter.  Then that piece of pipe that is supposed to slide over the fiberglass tailspring - wow, way, way too small.  I had a friend (36 years ago) cut off that steel tube and weld on a much larger tube that nearly fit over the built up tailspring.  Then my next complaint is using an AN3 bolt to hold the pivot.  Total garbage.  If I was doing it now, I'd use a brass bushing with an AN4 bolt holding it.  After 1400 hours my tail wheel pivot is worn out and will have to take to a welder to fix.  It would have been nice to just press in a new brass bushing!

Mike Dwyer Q200

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 

On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 2:58 PM Mike Steinsland <MIKESKUSTOMS@...> wrote:

Hey Troy

I know that info is on the site

Search angle of incidence 

I know I found all that info before but cant remember exactly where.if I remember correctly It ties in with the angle of the firewall as well. 

I'm not at that point yet but should be in a fee months 

 

On Thu., Jan. 6, 2022, 2:10 p.m. Troy Zawlacki, <troyzc3@...> wrote:

Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

> On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:
>
> Q-pilots,
>
> I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.
>
> I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?
>
> Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?
>
> Sam,
>
> I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.
>
> I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.
>
> TAZ





Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Mike Dwyer
 

Well, I can say that I set up my tail wheel according to the plans and it has been perfect.

The factory plane had a tail wheel like this:
I've never liked it when people use steerable ones like this for the drag penalty they pay:  
image.png  

Factory Q200 pictures:

Since we are talking about Q200 tail wheels, let me add that the tail spring size is way too small.  You need to wrap the tail spring many times with fiberglass to build it up in diameter.  Then that piece of pipe that is supposed to slide over the fiberglass tailspring - wow, way, way too small.  I had a friend (36 years ago) cut off that steel tube and weld on a much larger tube that nearly fit over the built up tailspring.  Then my next complaint is using an AN3 bolt to hold the pivot.  Total garbage.  If I was doing it now, I'd use a brass bushing with an AN4 bolt holding it.  After 1400 hours my tail wheel pivot is worn out and will have to take to a welder to fix.  It would have been nice to just press in a new brass bushing!
Mike Dwyer Q200

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 2:58 PM Mike Steinsland <MIKESKUSTOMS@...> wrote:
Hey Troy
I know that info is on the site
Search angle of incidence 
I know I found all that info before but cant remember exactly where.if I remember correctly It ties in with the angle of the firewall as well. 
I'm not at that point yet but should be in a fee months 

On Thu., Jan. 6, 2022, 2:10 p.m. Troy Zawlacki, <troyzc3@...> wrote:
Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

> On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:
>
> Q-pilots,
>
> I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.
>
> I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?
>
> Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?
>
> Sam,
>
> I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.
>
> I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.
>
> TAZ






Re: Airport Operations at Commercial airports

One Sky Dog
 

Jay,

Yes you need the badge to open the get to get out at Ogden but they dropped making you enter your PIN number to get out. You need the badge and secret PIN number to get in.

On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 1:17 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Do you need to have the badge to exit the prison?  😊

 

Sorry, could not resist.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 12:14 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports

 

I am required to have background check and badge to enter the prison that we minister.  Are pilots now considered "Terrorists"?  Probably thanks to 911 and other attacks.  And the border is porous so....

My 2 cents.

Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ryszard Zadow" <ryszardzadow@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Cc: Q_List <Q-List@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 12:19:11 -0500

 

 

On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

New regulations for hangar use at KOGD proof city hates GA pilots and builders.

 

POLICY 2040 NONAERONAUTICAL USE OF AIRPORT HANGARS 

 

 

 

 

POLICY 2040 NONAERONAUTICAL USE OF AIRPORT HANGARS

Legal publisher offering ordinance codification services for local governments, specializing in providing codes of ordinances in print and on the Internet

 

 

 

Charlie

 






 

On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 10:05 AM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

Mike,

 

Here is KOGD info it is a pain and Ogden City hates general aviation pilots and hangar owners.

 

Airport Badging | Ogden, UT 

 

 

 

 

Airport Badging | Ogden, UT

 

 

 

 

 

Charlie



 

On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 9:27 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Do any of you own/rent hangars at USA airports that have Scheduled airlines?

 

If so, I'd like to know how your airport handles TSA Badge requirements.

 

KPIE started charging a $20 a year badge fee and makes us take a TSA test on driving airport tugs and reporting bags that are left laying around... none of which we have at the General Aviation hangars!

 

The badge manager and I had a discussion.  He believes that all pilots flying have some sort of training and badges that allow them to walk on the ramp.  I told him that I could fly into any airport in the country and I don't need no stinking badge!  LOL.

 

Thanks,

Mike Dwyer Q200

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 


Re: Airport Operations at Commercial airports

Jay Scheevel
 

Do you need to have the badge to exit the prison?  😊

 

Sorry, could not resist.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 12:14 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports

 

I am required to have background check and badge to enter the prison that we minister.  Are pilots now considered "Terrorists"?  Probably thanks to 911 and other attacks.  And the border is porous so....

My 2 cents.

Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ryszard Zadow" <ryszardzadow@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Cc: Q_List <Q-List@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 12:19:11 -0500

 

 

On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

New regulations for hangar use at KOGD proof city hates GA pilots and builders.

 

POLICY 2040 NONAERONAUTICAL USE OF AIRPORT HANGARS 

 

 

 

 

POLICY 2040 NONAERONAUTICAL USE OF AIRPORT HANGARS

Legal publisher offering ordinance codification services for local governments, specializing in providing codes of ordinances in print and on the Internet

 

 

 

Charlie

 






 

On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 10:05 AM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

Mike,

 

Here is KOGD info it is a pain and Ogden City hates general aviation pilots and hangar owners.

 

Airport Badging | Ogden, UT 

 

 

 

 

Airport Badging | Ogden, UT

 

 

 

 

 

Charlie



 

On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 9:27 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Do any of you own/rent hangars at USA airports that have Scheduled airlines?

 

If so, I'd like to know how your airport handles TSA Badge requirements.

 

KPIE started charging a $20 a year badge fee and makes us take a TSA test on driving airport tugs and reporting bags that are left laying around... none of which we have at the General Aviation hangars!

 

The badge manager and I had a discussion.  He believes that all pilots flying have some sort of training and badges that allow them to walk on the ramp.  I told him that I could fly into any airport in the country and I don't need no stinking badge!  LOL.

 

Thanks,

Mike Dwyer Q200

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 


Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Troy,

I am not the best person to answer your questions, since I have a tricycle gear Q2, but I did do a lot of measuring and modeling of the Q2/Q200 including lots of currently flying ones. The bottom line is that if your wings are set up so that both level lines are parallel to one another (meaning zero decalage/per plans), you should probably think about having the ground angle in the 7-8 degrees canard AOA as your starting point.

This is pretty much what the QAC plans specify. If your wings are not set up per plans, this will change what you will want, but you will have to find that out experimentally. I would suggest starting out with the 7-8 degrees, since it is the mean expectation. If you set up with 11 degrees, you will probably have your tail lift off first and land last. Generally the tail dragger people have said that they like to be close to having the tail land right after the mains or as a three point. At least that is what I have heard over the years.

There, now I have set it up so that the tail dragger pilots will correct me if I have sent you too far astray...go at it guys!

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Troy Zawlacki
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 12:10 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io Group Moderators <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:

Q-pilots,

I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.

I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?

Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?

Sam,

I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.

I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.

TAZ


Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Mike Steinsland
 

Hey Troy
I know that info is on the site
Search angle of incidence 
I know I found all that info before but cant remember exactly where.if I remember correctly It ties in with the angle of the firewall as well. 
I'm not at that point yet but should be in a fee months 

On Thu., Jan. 6, 2022, 2:10 p.m. Troy Zawlacki, <troyzc3@...> wrote:
Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

> On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:
>
> Q-pilots,
>
> I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.
>
> I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?
>
> Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?
>
> Sam,
>
> I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.
>
> I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.
>
> TAZ






Re: Airport Operations at Commercial airports

Mike Dwyer
 

Thanks to all that replied.  So obviously we've just let the Government save us and now we have to put up with this crap.
I'd suggest everyone write their congressmen and senators to eliminate or reduce the power of the TSA.
What I see right now is all these airports just going along with whatever the TSA wants them to do because it's easier than pushing back on the TSA.

Thanks,
Mike Dwyer

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 2:16 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
I am required to have background check and badge to enter the prison that we minister.  Are pilots now considered "Terrorists"?  Probably thanks to 911 and other attacks.  And the border is porous so....
My 2 cents.
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ryszard Zadow" <ryszardzadow@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Cc: Q_List <Q-List@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 12:19:11 -0500

 

On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

New regulations for hangar use at KOGD proof city hates GA pilots and builders.
 
POLICY 2040 NONAERONAUTICAL USE OF AIRPORT HANGARS 
 
   
 

POLICY 2040 NONAERONAUTICAL USE OF AIRPORT HANGARS

Legal publisher offering ordinance codification services for local governments, specializing in providing codes of ordinances in print and on the Internet

 
 
 
Charlie
 






On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 10:05 AM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Mike,
 
Here is KOGD info it is a pain and Ogden City hates general aviation pilots and hangar owners.
 
Airport Badging | Ogden, UT 
 
   
 

Airport Badging | Ogden, UT

 

 
 
 
 
Charlie





On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 9:27 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:

Hi All,
Do any of you own/rent hangars at USA airports that have Scheduled airlines?
 
If so, I'd like to know how your airport handles TSA Badge requirements.
 
KPIE started charging a $20 a year badge fee and makes us take a TSA test on driving airport tugs and reporting bags that are left laying around... none of which we have at the General Aviation hangars!
 
The badge manager and I had a discussion.  He believes that all pilots flying have some sort of training and badges that allow them to walk on the ramp.  I told him that I could fly into any airport in the country and I don't need no stinking badge!  LOL.
 
Thanks,
Mike Dwyer Q200
 
Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF
 



Re: Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle

Bruce Crain
 

Problem is it has been a long time for lots of us from the time we went through this mod.  There are a lot of variables with respect to ground handling.  The Gall alignment,  bell crank that Jim Pattilo has on his Q200, differential braking with the rudder pedals or only having one "Johnson Bar" brake or two finger pull brakes with differential braking.  Several ways to improve the ground handling of which angle of attack is one of them.  I did what you are looking at plus I added a large non pneumatic tail wheel which helped.  Also the reflexor attached to the ailerons helps as well.  I converted mine to a TriQ 200 but flew as a Q200 for a while.  Tri Q is a different animal for ground control but slows it down a bit.  
You can do all of them if you like but many of our builders have different ideas about which one or two work best.  
You are looking the right direction to tame this bird so don't give up!  Trouble is I don't remember the numbers for degrees static.
Bruce Crain  N96BJ


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Troy Zawlacki" <troyzc3@...>
To: "main@Q-List.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Ground AoA/ tailwheel angle
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 11:10:26 -0800

Well I guess I can interpret this as nobody really having a strong opinion on the topic. I’ll proceed with my setup and my ground aoa at 11 degrees and see how she goes!

TAZ

> On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:04 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:
>
> Q-pilots,
>
> I have a question about the ground angle of attack note in the Q2 appendix "plans changes.” The note calls for setting WL15 level, and measuring from the ground to the bottom of the tailwheel. It gives a recommended range of 25-28.6” for this measurement.
>
> I am well versed in the Gall wheel alignment, and have just completed that on my plane. I am also pretty sure this note pre-dates the issues that were solved with the Gall alignment, but the Gall paper also doesn’t give an adjusted range for this tailwheel measurement.. There must still be a range right?
>
> Plus, too much AoA on the ground would mean more drag during takeoff and longer runway required right?
>
> Sam,
>
> I read your blog post about changing your tailwheel angle back shallower for reduced drag (and since you have a proper alignment now). Do you have any idea what this measurement ended up being on your plane (ground to wheel)? My plane right now with the tail spring sitting in what looks right (parallel to top fuselage shell) has a measurement of 33” or 4.5” higher than the plans note.
>
> I’m excited to hear some thoughts on this before I bond my tail spring in.
>
> TAZ




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