Date   

Re: First Flight of the year - finally!

Jay Scheevel
 

Sounds like a line from the Wizard of OZ, Dave 😊

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Dugas via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:05 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] First Flight of the year - finally!

 

Love your report Paul. It was a great day here too, very similar to the weather that you had.  I was thinking, if I only had an engine......

Dave D

 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 5:44 PM, Jerry Marstall

Great report.  I got my first flight in on the 5th. Nothing to write about. Flew yesterday.  Nearly have my hours for the year. Jerry 

 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:34 PM Paul Fisher <rv7a.n18pf@...> wrote:

I finally got enough of the snow cleared to get the Q-200 to the runway.  They tend to plow down the center of the taxiways, but my gear is wider than they typically plow.  So between my shoveling and mother nature's melting, we finally got it done today!

 

It was 40F, so there was enough moisture in the air to reduce the visibility to 8 miles, but otherwise it was clear and sunny.  The flight itself was uneventful - which was good because I wasn't sure if I still remembered how to fly it!  After most of an hour I returned to the airport.  Now I had to remember how to land!

 

The approach was perfect - exactly on airspeed all the way down, 100MPH on final, 90MPH over the threshold. I had a slight left crosswind, so the left main gently touched down, then the right main.  No bouncing, no struggling to keep it on the centerline - just a nice smooth rollout. 

 

However the problem with the landing (and this is a big problem!) was that nobody was there to see it!!  It was the best landing I have made in a long while and nobody can confirm it.  I was going to go around and do another one, but there was no way it would be as good as that one, so I quit while I was ahead.  I did a very slow taxi back to the hangar (to miss the snow banks), and put it away.

 

Anyway, nothing exciting, but I got my first 1.0 hour on the hobbs for 2022 thirteen days into the new year.  If I'm going to get more flying in this year, I'm going to have to get going!

 

Happy New Year to everyone, thirteen days late!  I hope to see you all in Decorah in September.

 

Paul Fisher

Q-200 N17PF


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Jay Scheevel
 

Basically, yes. Just removed the under camber on the elevator. The rest of the airfoil is unchanged (to facilitate only making a new elevator, not the whole wing). This is not the only consideration though. The change also has an effect on the pitching moment and the effective lift polar and maximum lift to drag. These all will affect the way the canard performs in flight. There is no free lunch.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:20 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

I can talk more about this with respect to the changes in canard performance if people are interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Jay: Looking at your PDF, did you just smooth out the cusp or do something more drastic?

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)


Re: First Flight of the year - finally!

Dave Dugas
 

Love your report Paul. It was a great day here too, very similar to the weather that you had.  I was thinking, if I only had an engine......
Dave D


On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 5:44 PM, Jerry Marstall
<jerrylm1986@...> wrote:
Great report.  I got my first flight in on the 5th. Nothing to write about. Flew yesterday.  Nearly have my hours for the year. Jerry 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:34 PM Paul Fisher <rv7a.n18pf@...> wrote:
I finally got enough of the snow cleared to get the Q-200 to the runway.  They tend to plow down the center of the taxiways, but my gear is wider than they typically plow.  So between my shoveling and mother nature's melting, we finally got it done today!

It was 40F, so there was enough moisture in the air to reduce the visibility to 8 miles, but otherwise it was clear and sunny.  The flight itself was uneventful - which was good because I wasn't sure if I still remembered how to fly it!  After most of an hour I returned to the airport.  Now I had to remember how to land!

The approach was perfect - exactly on airspeed all the way down, 100MPH on final, 90MPH over the threshold. I had a slight left crosswind, so the left main gently touched down, then the right main.  No bouncing, no struggling to keep it on the centerline - just a nice smooth rollout. 

However the problem with the landing (and this is a big problem!) was that nobody was there to see it!!  It was the best landing I have made in a long while and nobody can confirm it.  I was going to go around and do another one, but there was no way it would be as good as that one, so I quit while I was ahead.  I did a very slow taxi back to the hangar (to miss the snow banks), and put it away.

Anyway, nothing exciting, but I got my first 1.0 hour on the hobbs for 2022 thirteen days into the new year.  If I'm going to get more flying in this year, I'm going to have to get going!

Happy New Year to everyone, thirteen days late!  I hope to see you all in Decorah in September.

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Michael Dunning
 

I can talk more about this with respect to the changes in canard performance if people are interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay


Jay: Looking at your PDF, did you just smooth out the cusp or do something more drastic?

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)


Re: First Flight of the year - finally!

Jay Scheevel
 

Very Nice, Paul. You are the man and the proof that it is like riding a bicycle!  😉

 

I am still waiting to make my first flight. I hope to do so this weekend.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Fisher
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 2:34 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] First Flight of the year - finally!

 

I finally got enough of the snow cleared to get the Q-200 to the runway.  They tend to plow down the center of the taxiways, but my gear is wider than they typically plow.  So between my shoveling and mother nature's melting, we finally got it done today!

 

It was 40F, so there was enough moisture in the air to reduce the visibility to 8 miles, but otherwise it was clear and sunny.  The flight itself was uneventful - which was good because I wasn't sure if I still remembered how to fly it!  After most of an hour I returned to the airport.  Now I had to remember how to land!

 

The approach was perfect - exactly on airspeed all the way down, 100MPH on final, 90MPH over the threshold. I had a slight left crosswind, so the left main gently touched down, then the right main.  No bouncing, no struggling to keep it on the centerline - just a nice smooth rollout. 

 

However the problem with the landing (and this is a big problem!) was that nobody was there to see it!!  It was the best landing I have made in a long while and nobody can confirm it.  I was going to go around and do another one, but there was no way it would be as good as that one, so I quit while I was ahead.  I did a very slow taxi back to the hangar (to miss the snow banks), and put it away.

 

Anyway, nothing exciting, but I got my first 1.0 hour on the hobbs for 2022 thirteen days into the new year.  If I'm going to get more flying in this year, I'm going to have to get going!

 

Happy New Year to everyone, thirteen days late!  I hope to see you all in Decorah in September.

 

Paul Fisher

Q-200 N17PF


Re: First Flight of the year - finally!

Jerry Marstall
 

Great report.  I got my first flight in on the 5th. Nothing to write about. Flew yesterday.  Nearly have my hours for the year. Jerry 


On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:34 PM Paul Fisher <rv7a.n18pf@...> wrote:
I finally got enough of the snow cleared to get the Q-200 to the runway.  They tend to plow down the center of the taxiways, but my gear is wider than they typically plow.  So between my shoveling and mother nature's melting, we finally got it done today!

It was 40F, so there was enough moisture in the air to reduce the visibility to 8 miles, but otherwise it was clear and sunny.  The flight itself was uneventful - which was good because I wasn't sure if I still remembered how to fly it!  After most of an hour I returned to the airport.  Now I had to remember how to land!

The approach was perfect - exactly on airspeed all the way down, 100MPH on final, 90MPH over the threshold. I had a slight left crosswind, so the left main gently touched down, then the right main.  No bouncing, no struggling to keep it on the centerline - just a nice smooth rollout. 

However the problem with the landing (and this is a big problem!) was that nobody was there to see it!!  It was the best landing I have made in a long while and nobody can confirm it.  I was going to go around and do another one, but there was no way it would be as good as that one, so I quit while I was ahead.  I did a very slow taxi back to the hangar (to miss the snow banks), and put it away.

Anyway, nothing exciting, but I got my first 1.0 hour on the hobbs for 2022 thirteen days into the new year.  If I'm going to get more flying in this year, I'm going to have to get going!

Happy New Year to everyone, thirteen days late!  I hope to see you all in Decorah in September.

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF


First Flight of the year - finally!

Paul Fisher
 

I finally got enough of the snow cleared to get the Q-200 to the runway.  They tend to plow down the center of the taxiways, but my gear is wider than they typically plow.  So between my shoveling and mother nature's melting, we finally got it done today!

It was 40F, so there was enough moisture in the air to reduce the visibility to 8 miles, but otherwise it was clear and sunny.  The flight itself was uneventful - which was good because I wasn't sure if I still remembered how to fly it!  After most of an hour I returned to the airport.  Now I had to remember how to land!

The approach was perfect - exactly on airspeed all the way down, 100MPH on final, 90MPH over the threshold. I had a slight left crosswind, so the left main gently touched down, then the right main.  No bouncing, no struggling to keep it on the centerline - just a nice smooth rollout. 

However the problem with the landing (and this is a big problem!) was that nobody was there to see it!!  It was the best landing I have made in a long while and nobody can confirm it.  I was going to go around and do another one, but there was no way it would be as good as that one, so I quit while I was ahead.  I did a very slow taxi back to the hangar (to miss the snow banks), and put it away.

Anyway, nothing exciting, but I got my first 1.0 hour on the hobbs for 2022 thirteen days into the new year.  If I'm going to get more flying in this year, I'm going to have to get going!

Happy New Year to everyone, thirteen days late!  I hope to see you all in Decorah in September.

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Mike Dwyer
 

Yes.  As part of my standard preflight I go to the midspan hinge area and press up and down on the elevator.  No movement is good.
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:11 AM Stephen Theron <steviet888@...> wrote:
Hi All

Busy restoring a Tri Quickie Revmaster that was standing for about 17 years. 

Regarding the mid span hinge, when disassembling the left hinge it needed to be forced to remove the elevator and thus replaced. On the right hand side I’m not sure the hinge was ever engaged. 

Is there a way of checking if the elevator is correctly engaged in the hinge?

Any help would be appreciated. I’m based in Johannesburg, South Africa 🇿🇦 

Regards

Stephen Theron 
+27 84 699 1684

On 12 Jan 2022, at 20:48, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

 Jay,

Sparrow strainers are required on my Dragonfly.

Charlie





On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:59 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 



On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Stephen Theron
 

Hi All

Busy restoring a Tri Quickie Revmaster that was standing for about 17 years. 

Regarding the mid span hinge, when disassembling the left hinge it needed to be forced to remove the elevator and thus replaced. On the right hand side I’m not sure the hinge was ever engaged. 

Is there a way of checking if the elevator is correctly engaged in the hinge?

Any help would be appreciated. I’m based in Johannesburg, South Africa 🇿🇦 

Regards

Stephen Theron 
+27 84 699 1684

On 12 Jan 2022, at 20:48, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

 Jay,

Sparrow strainers are required on my Dragonfly.

Charlie





On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:59 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 



On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Frankenbird Vern
 

 Yer the man! Thank you. I knew the GU has to have strainers. I see the profile difference in the views.


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 2:06 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot
 

There you go, Vern. Best contact Charlie for the details on that. My elevator design only applies to the LS1, so would be inappropriate for the GU dragonfly type wing.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:48 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

Jay,

 

Sparrow strainers are required on my Dragonfly.

 

Charlie




 

On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:59 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 

 

On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Jay Scheevel
 

There you go, Vern. Best contact Charlie for the details on that. My elevator design only applies to the LS1, so would be inappropriate for the GU dragonfly type wing.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:48 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

Jay,

 

Sparrow strainers are required on my Dragonfly.

 

Charlie




 

On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:59 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 

 

On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

One Sky Dog
 

Jay,

Sparrow strainers are required on my Dragonfly.

On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:59 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 



On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 



On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


File Notifications #file-notice

main@Q-List.groups.io Notification <noreply@...>
 

The following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the main@Q-List.groups.io group.

By: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>


The following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the main@Q-List.groups.io group.

By: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Description:
This document shows the revised elevator profile to eliminate asymmetrical pressure on elevator (thus eliminating the need for sparrow strainer). The remainder of the LS1 wing foil is unchanged.


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Jay Scheevel
 

Put a couple of documents in the files. Uploaded the elevator hinge design from yesterday and also uploaded a document showing the profile and pressure distribution models for a revised elevator profile for the LS1 that would eliminate the need for the sparrow strainers. I can talk more about this with respect to the changes in canard performance if people are interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 3:16 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io; main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

Jay,

 

Nice hinge design! 

 

Am I to understand you might have determined the elevator (airfoil) shape that would provide the same proportional down force without the local sparrow strainer drag?

 

Busting out the hot wire. But going flying today light winds high in the 60’s

 

One Sky Dog




 

On Tuesday, January 11, 2022, 11:23 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:









 I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 



On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Frankenbird Vern
 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot
 




I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


Jay.

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Richard Thomson
 

Hi Jay,

Always liked this design, you have put some careful thought into aspects of your TriQ.

Would have thought it could be retrofitted to an existing set up, as a secondary support say 4 inches inboard of the current midspan. The doubler tube could be added fairly easily.

At least If the pin or the mounting or the bonded joint failed it would continue to support.

Rich T.

On 12/01/2022 06:23, Jay Scheevel wrote:




 I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


Jay.

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

One Sky Dog
 

Jay,

Nice hinge design! 

Am I to understand you might have determined the elevator (airfoil) shape that would provide the same proportional down force without the local sparrow strainer drag?

Busting out the hot wire. But going flying today light winds high in the 60’s

On Tuesday, January 11, 2022, 11:23 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:





 I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


Jay.

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Jay Scheevel
 





I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


Jay.

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Re: Re designed midspan elevator pivot

Sam Hoskins
 

Jay.


On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours

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