Date   

Re: Jim Bob 6 pack, who really has it?

Ian Ashdown
 

Do I understand correctly that your tail wheel is not steerable at all?  So all on ground steering is by the brakes.

ian


Re: Jim Bob 6 pack, who really has it?

Jim Patillo
 

Hi Troy,

I have a little knowledge regarding the JB/6pk.

  1. Originally the brakes (or lack there of) were more dangerous than they should have been, so La Rue and Coughlin/Hoskins came up with a floating caliper system which both worked well. I fab'd and installed the La Rue System. The brakes now had much more holding power. 
  2. Realizing some guys were already flying with the single pull hand brake and aware of how dangerous they were, (pilots were breaking airplanes), the dual pull brake handle was invented and installed by several guys.  For a more "standard airplane feel" and to free up your left hand, Bob and I decided to install dual toe brakes. Toe brakes are much harder to install but gave the control we were looking for. Bob installed his first and I followed. 
  3. We installed full swiveling tail wheels because we wanted to be able to make a 360 turn on one wheel. More precise control. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 11:58:41 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Jim Bob 6 pack, who really has it?
 
Troy, you raise a good topic for discussion.  You will get about 40 different opinions. Here's my set-up:

1. Brake mounts. Coughlin/Hoskins brake mount. A step-up from the Larue, which was a step-up from the factory.
2. Diff. brakes. Installed them after I had an incident where the tail spring broke and I didn't have any directional control.
3. Stock tail wheel, a stronger spring is a must.
4. I think the bellcrank is unnecessary but independent cables are highly advised.  See #2 above.
5. Tailwheel steering springs. No have got.  Might be nice but I've never tried them.
6. Reflexor - Yes.
7.  Belly board.  Anything I can get to help slow it down!

Sam


Re: Jim Bob 6 pack, who really has it?

Anthony P
 

Have 1,6, and 7.

Working on 2 and planning on Hoskins 4.

--
Q2 N86KL


Re: N131PS For Sale

Jay Scheevel
 

I wonder if that was the one with the bag of grapefruits that leapt from a bag behind the seat and rolled into the tail cone?

 

I have sturdy straps with adjustable buckles mounted to the floor. Everything in the cargo area gets fastened to the floor. I have a similar strap constraint on the passenger floor for when I travel alone. Haven’t tried golf clubs yet, but those would be fastened down in the front (no rudder pedals on that side).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Hole via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 2:41 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] N131PS For Sale

 

See to it that your cargo behind the seat is well secured. 

Thinking back to the early days of Light Sport Expo there was a plane on display touting the behind seat area extending well into the tail as “camper”.  Plenty of room to roll out your bedroll and sleep on the field.  I saw that as a good idea, but what terrified me is that rookie pilots might stow cargo back there, perhaps golf clubs, and get the CG in the hazard area.  Worse yet, if the cargo slipped backward in flight the plane could become uncontrollable.  After the show on the way home the plane crashed with no survivors.

Forewarned is forearmed.

 

Rick Hole

From: main@Q-List.groups.io [mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io] On Behalf Of Fredd Baber
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 10:13 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] N131PS For Sale

 

Ok, that’s what I’m thinking as well.  Appreciate the help!

 

Fredd Baber

 

On Feb 21, 2022, at 10:07 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:



Can't speak for Dragon fly but on my Q200 I added a screen on the rear bulkheads and a fiberglass cover over the control linkage so I can just toss stuff in there.

Mike Dwyer Q200

 

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 8:36 AM Fredd Baber <freddb43@...> wrote:


I’m looking at a Dragonfly and the frame has the REALLY SMALL cut outs that don’t look like you can get much back there.  You can pull the seats forward and there are a couple of larger holes but the control linkages are tight there as well.  Would I just build a carbon fiber shelf to go over the linkages to avoid a problem?   Thanks!

 

Fredd Baber

 

On Feb 20, 2022, at 9:52 PM, Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:

Behind the seat back.  Lots of room, but tie it down!

Martin

 

 

 

 

On Feb 20, 2022, at 5:03 PM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:



Mostly behind the seats.  I can store about 5 roll bags there and because I don't have rudder pedals on the passenger side I store the heaviest bag in front of the passengers feet.  One time coming back from the Bahamas I was unloading at customs and they were astounded at all the stuff I pulled out!

Mike Dwyer Q200

 

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022, 6:12 PM Fredd Baber <freddb43@...> wrote:

Where exactly is “baggage” in a Quickie?

 

Fredd Baber

 

On Feb 20, 2022, at 1:48 PM, Terrence ONeill <troneill@...> wrote:

Michael, firm price $28,500.

 

Pics:

 

 

_,_

 

 

 

 




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: wacodriver@...
To: troneill@...
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 13:09:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Larry’s Arizona Q-2

Terrence,

     Some photographs and information on N131PS: Serial number 2520 was built June, 1997, it has 870TT as of today. The Revmaster was swapped for a  120 HP Jabiru 3300 June 2002, it has 676 TT now.  It has a spartan interior in good shape and minimal VFR avionics and panel.

 

This photograph was taken on the ramp at Durango Colorado this past Christmas.

 

200 MPH low pass


Re: N131PS For Sale

Rick Hole
 

See to it that your cargo behind the seat is well secured. 

Thinking back to the early days of Light Sport Expo there was a plane on display touting the behind seat area extending well into the tail as “camper”.  Plenty of room to roll out your bedroll and sleep on the field.  I saw that as a good idea, but what terrified me is that rookie pilots might stow cargo back there, perhaps golf clubs, and get the CG in the hazard area.  Worse yet, if the cargo slipped backward in flight the plane could become uncontrollable.  After the show on the way home the plane crashed with no survivors.

Forewarned is forearmed.

 

Rick Hole

From: main@Q-List.groups.io [mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io] On Behalf Of Fredd Baber
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 10:13 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] N131PS For Sale

 

Ok, that’s what I’m thinking as well.  Appreciate the help!

 

Fredd Baber



On Feb 21, 2022, at 10:07 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:



Can't speak for Dragon fly but on my Q200 I added a screen on the rear bulkheads and a fiberglass cover over the control linkage so I can just toss stuff in there.

Mike Dwyer Q200

 

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 8:36 AM Fredd Baber <freddb43@...> wrote:


I’m looking at a Dragonfly and the frame has the REALLY SMALL cut outs that don’t look like you can get much back there.  You can pull the seats forward and there are a couple of larger holes but the control linkages are tight there as well.  Would I just build a carbon fiber shelf to go over the linkages to avoid a problem?   Thanks!

 

Fredd Baber



On Feb 20, 2022, at 9:52 PM, Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:

Behind the seat back.  Lots of room, but tie it down!

Martin

 

 

 



On Feb 20, 2022, at 5:03 PM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:



Mostly behind the seats.  I can store about 5 roll bags there and because I don't have rudder pedals on the passenger side I store the heaviest bag in front of the passengers feet.  One time coming back from the Bahamas I was unloading at customs and they were astounded at all the stuff I pulled out!

Mike Dwyer Q200

 

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022, 6:12 PM Fredd Baber <freddb43@...> wrote:

Where exactly is “baggage” in a Quickie?

 

Fredd Baber



On Feb 20, 2022, at 1:48 PM, Terrence ONeill <troneill@...> wrote:

Michael, firm price $28,500.

 

Pics:

 

 

_,_

 

 

 

 




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: wacodriver@...
To: troneill@...
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 13:09:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Larry’s Arizona Q-2

Terrence,

     Some photographs and information on N131PS: Serial number 2520 was built June, 1997, it has 870TT as of today. The Revmaster was swapped for a  120 HP Jabiru 3300 June 2002, it has 676 TT now.  It has a spartan interior in good shape and minimal VFR avionics and panel.

This photograph was taken on the ramp at Durango Colorado this past Christmas.

200 MPH low pass


Re: Jim Bob 6 pack, who really has it?

Sam Hoskins
 

Troy, you raise a good topic for discussion.  You will get about 40 different opinions. Here's my set-up:

1. Brake mounts. Coughlin/Hoskins brake mount. A step-up from the Larue, which was a step-up from the factory.
2. Diff. brakes. Installed them after I had an incident where the tail spring broke and I didn't have any directional control.
3. Stock tail wheel, a stronger spring is a must.
4. I think the bellcrank is unnecessary but independent cables are highly advised.  See #2 above.
5. Tailwheel steering springs. No have got.  Might be nice but I've never tried them.
6. Reflexor - Yes.
7.  Belly board.  Anything I can get to help slow it down!

Sam


Re: Jim Bob 6 pack, who really has it?

Jay Scheevel
 

I think you left out the Gall wheel alignment. I understand by listening through the grapevine, that this is very important.

I obviated the six pack by putting my tailwheel on the nose and taking my main gear off the canard tips and putting them on a springy thing sticking out of the fuselage.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Troy Zawlacki
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 11:26 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Jim Bob 6 pack, who really has it?

Here is a question I’ve wanted to ask for a while now. Any Q owner or builder will have heard about the 6 pack mods and how they MUST be done. Most flying Qs will claim they have the mods, of course. However, from my research, I don't think hardly any planes have ALL 6 mods (Really there are 7 points made in the original article).

1) Cleveland or Matco brakes, or the LaRue mod to originals
2) Differential brakes
3) Full swiveling tailwheel and stronger tail spring
4) Bell crank in tail and independent cables to rudder and tailwheel
5) Tailwheel steering springs
6) Reflexor
7) Belly board

Most I believe have done 1, 2, and 6, and maybe 4. I think some of these lost their luster after the wheel alignment issues were noted. One could argue that a proper wheel alignment eliminates the need for 2, 3, 5, and 6 which are all really tied back to ground handling. I’d say 4 is more of a safety redundancy concern and many have accomplished this in different ways. 7 is just a cherry on top and even noted by the original article as “not strictly needed.”

For a modern builder, it seems like do numbers 1, 4, a proper wheel alignment, and you’re good to go. For those who say you NEED differential brakes, I’d say you certainly do if you have done number 3.

How many of the 7 do you have?


Re: Jim Bob 6 pack, who really has it?

Paul Fisher
 

1, 2, and 6.  I consider these essential (obviously, since I did them!). 

Paul
Q-200 N17PF


On Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 10:26 Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:
Here is a question I’ve wanted to ask for a while now. Any Q owner or builder will have heard about the 6 pack mods and how they MUST be done. Most flying Qs will claim they have the mods, of course. However, from my research, I don't think hardly any planes have ALL 6 mods (Really there are 7 points made in the original article).

1) Cleveland or Matco brakes, or the LaRue mod to originals
2) Differential brakes
3) Full swiveling tailwheel and stronger tail spring
4) Bell crank in tail and independent cables to rudder and tailwheel
5) Tailwheel steering springs
6) Reflexor
7) Belly board

Most I believe have done 1, 2, and 6, and maybe 4. I think some of these lost their luster after the wheel alignment issues were noted. One could argue that a proper wheel alignment eliminates the need for 2, 3, 5, and 6 which are all really tied back to ground handling. I’d say 4 is more of a safety redundancy concern and many have accomplished this in different ways. 7 is just a cherry on top and even noted by the original article as “not strictly needed.”

For a modern builder, it seems like do numbers 1, 4, a proper wheel alignment, and you’re good to go. For those who say you NEED differential brakes, I’d say you certainly do if you have done number 3.

How many of the 7 do you have?





Re: Jim Bob 6 pack, who really has it?

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

I have 1-6 but no belly board. I am not completely sure I would want that one.

Corbin
N121CG

On Feb 21, 2022, at 12:25 PM, Troy Zawlacki <troyzc3@...> wrote:

Here is a question I’ve wanted to ask for a while now. Any Q owner or builder will have heard about the 6 pack mods and how they MUST be done. Most flying Qs will claim they have the mods, of course. However, from my research, I don't think hardly any planes have ALL 6 mods (Really there are 7 points made in the original article).

1) Cleveland or Matco brakes, or the LaRue mod to originals
2) Differential brakes
3) Full swiveling tailwheel and stronger tail spring
4) Bell crank in tail and independent cables to rudder and tailwheel
5) Tailwheel steering springs
6) Reflexor
7) Belly board

Most I believe have done 1, 2, and 6, and maybe 4. I think some of these lost their luster after the wheel alignment issues were noted. One could argue that a proper wheel alignment eliminates the need for 2, 3, 5, and 6 which are all really tied back to ground handling. I’d say 4 is more of a safety redundancy concern and many have accomplished this in different ways. 7 is just a cherry on top and even noted by the original article as “not strictly needed.”

For a modern builder, it seems like do numbers 1, 4, a proper wheel alignment, and you’re good to go. For those who say you NEED differential brakes, I’d say you certainly do if you have done number 3.

How many of the 7 do you have?



--
Corbin
N121CG


Jim Bob 6 pack, who really has it?

Troy Zawlacki
 

Here is a question I’ve wanted to ask for a while now. Any Q owner or builder will have heard about the 6 pack mods and how they MUST be done. Most flying Qs will claim they have the mods, of course. However, from my research, I don't think hardly any planes have ALL 6 mods (Really there are 7 points made in the original article).

1) Cleveland or Matco brakes, or the LaRue mod to originals
2) Differential brakes
3) Full swiveling tailwheel and stronger tail spring
4) Bell crank in tail and independent cables to rudder and tailwheel
5) Tailwheel steering springs
6) Reflexor
7) Belly board

Most I believe have done 1, 2, and 6, and maybe 4. I think some of these lost their luster after the wheel alignment issues were noted. One could argue that a proper wheel alignment eliminates the need for 2, 3, 5, and 6 which are all really tied back to ground handling. I’d say 4 is more of a safety redundancy concern and many have accomplished this in different ways. 7 is just a cherry on top and even noted by the original article as “not strictly needed.”

For a modern builder, it seems like do numbers 1, 4, a proper wheel alignment, and you’re good to go. For those who say you NEED differential brakes, I’d say you certainly do if you have done number 3.

How many of the 7 do you have?


Re: Tuft test video

Jay Scheevel
 

I remembered you doing that and discussing it Bruce. I was thinking I would give that a try. I will let you know how it works.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 11:02 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tuft test video

 

Your video looks like my strainer when I pushed over to far and it stalled the bottom side of the strainer.  The tufts were wrapping around the back side of the strainer full span.  I put about 5 or 6 vortex generators on the bottom of the strainer and it solved my problem.  You could just use a couple of vertex generators on the inboard span of the strainers to re-attach the air on the stalled out back, bottom side of the strainer.  When you do it will most likely give the authority on the elevator a different feel so be ready to need to make the elevator move the way you need for control.

My strainers are about 50 percent span on the elevator.

I would imagine that if you incorporate a trim/stainer with the elevator vortex generators would come in handy on the bottom side of the strainer to re-attach the air.

Some facts but mostly speculation.

Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Tuft test video
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:37:54 -0700

Hi Guys,

 

I put the camera back on today and added some yarn tufts to the side of he fuselage, the canard root strake, the elevator and the sparrow strainer.  The video goes from runup through take off, then a pass at 1000 AGL along the runway and normal cruise with a couple of slow climbs. The tufts seem to lay down nicely with my contours on the strakes, which makes me happy, but the tufts on the sparrow strainer show that it is perpetually stalled. This is shown by the tufts from the top of the strainer wrapping around to the bottom of the strainer and occurs  at any airspeed above 80 mph. Alhtough the sparrow strainer works nicely to push down against the up-pushing of the undercamber on the elevator, this is a huge drag point on the airplane, and I am sure it limits the high speed performance significantly. There has to be a better way to do this …….

 

https://youtu.be/N-Gnd_CSywA

 

Cheers,

Jay


Re: Tuft test video

Bruce Crain
 

Your video looks like my strainer when I pushed over to far and it stalled the bottom side of the strainer.  The tufts were wrapping around the back side of the strainer full span.  I put about 5 or 6 vortex generators on the bottom of the strainer and it solved my problem.  You could just use a couple of vertex generators on the inboard span of the strainers to re-attach the air on the stalled out back, bottom side of the strainer.  When you do it will most likely give the authority on the elevator a different feel so be ready to need to make the elevator move the way you need for control.
My strainers are about 50 percent span on the elevator.
I would imagine that if you incorporate a trim/stainer with the elevator vortex generators would come in handy on the bottom side of the strainer to re-attach the air.
Some facts but mostly speculation.
Bruce Crain


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Tuft test video
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 17:37:54 -0700

Hi Guys,

 

I put the camera back on today and added some yarn tufts to the side of he fuselage, the canard root strake, the elevator and the sparrow strainer.  The video goes from runup through take off, then a pass at 1000 AGL along the runway and normal cruise with a couple of slow climbs. The tufts seem to lay down nicely with my contours on the strakes, which makes me happy, but the tufts on the sparrow strainer show that it is perpetually stalled. This is shown by the tufts from the top of the strainer wrapping around to the bottom of the strainer and occurs  at any airspeed above 80 mph. Alhtough the sparrow strainer works nicely to push down against the up-pushing of the undercamber on the elevator, this is a huge drag point on the airplane, and I am sure it limits the high speed performance significantly. There has to be a better way to do this …….

 

https://youtu.be/N-Gnd_CSywA

 

Cheers,

Jay


Re: Tuft test video

Terrence ONeill
 

Jay,

Back when I had the Dragonfly, I removed the sparrow strainers and changed part of the elevator into an anti-servo tab, and that worked nicely.  
Sorry I don’t have any pics now… but maybe an ancient Kitplanes article I did back then would show the details.
Next time back in IL I look to see if I have anything.

Terry


On Feb 20, 2022, at 12:27 PM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:

Great video Jay.  Agreed, looks like a drag point to me also.  Strainer looks to be in turbulent air.  Maybe a smaller strainer mounted in the air below would be better?
Fly Safe,
Mike Dwyer

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 7:37 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

 

I put the camera back on today and added some yarn tufts to the side of he fuselage, the canard root strake, the elevator and the sparrow strainer.  The video goes from runup through take off, then a pass at 1000 AGL along the runway and normal cruise with a couple of slow climbs. The tufts seem to lay down nicely with my contours on the strakes, which makes me happy, but the tufts on the sparrow strainer show that it is perpetually stalled. This is shown by the tufts from the top of the strainer wrapping around to the bottom of the strainer and occurs  at any airspeed above 80 mph. Alhtough the sparrow strainer works nicely to push down against the up-pushing of the undercamber on the elevator, this is a huge drag point on the airplane, and I am sure it limits the high speed performance significantly. There has to be a better way to do this …….

 

https://youtu.be/N-Gnd_CSywA

 

Cheers,

Jay





Re: N131PS For Sale

Fredd Baber
 

Ok, that’s what I’m thinking as well.  Appreciate the help!

Fredd Baber


On Feb 21, 2022, at 10:07 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:


Can't speak for Dragon fly but on my Q200 I added a screen on the rear bulkheads and a fiberglass cover over the control linkage so I can just toss stuff in there.
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 8:36 AM Fredd Baber <freddb43@...> wrote:

I’m looking at a Dragonfly and the frame has the REALLY SMALL cut outs that don’t look like you can get much back there.  You can pull the seats forward and there are a couple of larger holes but the control linkages are tight there as well.  Would I just build a carbon fiber shelf to go over the linkages to avoid a problem?   Thanks!

Fredd Baber

On Feb 20, 2022, at 9:52 PM, Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:

Behind the seat back.  Lots of room, but tie it down!

Martin

 


On Feb 20, 2022, at 5:03 PM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:


Mostly behind the seats.  I can store about 5 roll bags there and because I don't have rudder pedals on the passenger side I store the heaviest bag in front of the passengers feet.  One time coming back from the Bahamas I was unloading at customs and they were astounded at all the stuff I pulled out!
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022, 6:12 PM Fredd Baber <freddb43@...> wrote:
Where exactly is “baggage” in a Quickie?

Fredd Baber


On Feb 20, 2022, at 1:48 PM, Terrence ONeill <troneill@...> wrote:

Michael, firm price $28,500.

Pics:


_,_







---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: wacodriver@...
To: troneill@...
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 13:09:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Larry’s Arizona Q-2
Terrence,
     Some photographs and information on N131PS: Serial number 2520 was built June, 1997, it has 870TT as of today. The Revmaster was swapped for a  120 HP Jabiru 3300 June 2002, it has 676 TT now.  It has a spartan interior in good shape and minimal VFR avionics and panel.
This photograph was taken on the ramp at Durango Colorado this past Christmas.
200 MPH low pass


Re: N131PS For Sale

Mike Dwyer
 

Can't speak for Dragon fly but on my Q200 I added a screen on the rear bulkheads and a fiberglass cover over the control linkage so I can just toss stuff in there.
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 8:36 AM Fredd Baber <freddb43@...> wrote:

I’m looking at a Dragonfly and the frame has the REALLY SMALL cut outs that don’t look like you can get much back there.  You can pull the seats forward and there are a couple of larger holes but the control linkages are tight there as well.  Would I just build a carbon fiber shelf to go over the linkages to avoid a problem?   Thanks!

Fredd Baber

On Feb 20, 2022, at 9:52 PM, Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:

Behind the seat back.  Lots of room, but tie it down!

Martin

 


On Feb 20, 2022, at 5:03 PM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:


Mostly behind the seats.  I can store about 5 roll bags there and because I don't have rudder pedals on the passenger side I store the heaviest bag in front of the passengers feet.  One time coming back from the Bahamas I was unloading at customs and they were astounded at all the stuff I pulled out!
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022, 6:12 PM Fredd Baber <freddb43@...> wrote:
Where exactly is “baggage” in a Quickie?

Fredd Baber


On Feb 20, 2022, at 1:48 PM, Terrence ONeill <troneill@...> wrote:

Michael, firm price $28,500.

Pics:


_,_







---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: wacodriver@...
To: troneill@...
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 13:09:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Larry’s Arizona Q-2
Terrence,
     Some photographs and information on N131PS: Serial number 2520 was built June, 1997, it has 870TT as of today. The Revmaster was swapped for a  120 HP Jabiru 3300 June 2002, it has 676 TT now.  It has a spartan interior in good shape and minimal VFR avionics and panel.
This photograph was taken on the ramp at Durango Colorado this past Christmas.
200 MPH low pass


Re: N131PS For Sale

Fredd Baber
 


I’m looking at a Dragonfly and the frame has the REALLY SMALL cut outs that don’t look like you can get much back there.  You can pull the seats forward and there are a couple of larger holes but the control linkages are tight there as well.  Would I just build a carbon fiber shelf to go over the linkages to avoid a problem?   Thanks!

Fredd Baber

On Feb 20, 2022, at 9:52 PM, Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:

Behind the seat back.  Lots of room, but tie it down!

Martin

 


On Feb 20, 2022, at 5:03 PM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:


Mostly behind the seats.  I can store about 5 roll bags there and because I don't have rudder pedals on the passenger side I store the heaviest bag in front of the passengers feet.  One time coming back from the Bahamas I was unloading at customs and they were astounded at all the stuff I pulled out!
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022, 6:12 PM Fredd Baber <freddb43@...> wrote:
Where exactly is “baggage” in a Quickie?

Fredd Baber


On Feb 20, 2022, at 1:48 PM, Terrence ONeill <troneill@...> wrote:

Michael, firm price $28,500.

Pics:


_,_







---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: wacodriver@...
To: troneill@...
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 13:09:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Larry’s Arizona Q-2
Terrence,
     Some photographs and information on N131PS: Serial number 2520 was built June, 1997, it has 870TT as of today. The Revmaster was swapped for a  120 HP Jabiru 3300 June 2002, it has 676 TT now.  It has a spartan interior in good shape and minimal VFR avionics and panel.
This photograph was taken on the ramp at Durango Colorado this past Christmas.
200 MPH low pass


Re: N131PS For Sale

Martin Skiby
 

Behind the seat back.  Lots of room, but tie it down!

Martin

 


On Feb 20, 2022, at 5:03 PM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:


Mostly behind the seats.  I can store about 5 roll bags there and because I don't have rudder pedals on the passenger side I store the heaviest bag in front of the passengers feet.  One time coming back from the Bahamas I was unloading at customs and they were astounded at all the stuff I pulled out!
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022, 6:12 PM Fredd Baber <freddb43@...> wrote:
Where exactly is “baggage” in a Quickie?

Fredd Baber


On Feb 20, 2022, at 1:48 PM, Terrence ONeill <troneill@...> wrote:

Michael, firm price $28,500.

Pics:


_,_







---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: wacodriver@...
To: troneill@...
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 13:09:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Larry’s Arizona Q-2
Terrence,
     Some photographs and information on N131PS: Serial number 2520 was built June, 1997, it has 870TT as of today. The Revmaster was swapped for a  120 HP Jabiru 3300 June 2002, it has 676 TT now.  It has a spartan interior in good shape and minimal VFR avionics and panel.
This photograph was taken on the ramp at Durango Colorado this past Christmas.
200 MPH low pass


Re: Tuft test video

Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks so much, David. I will read those carefully and compare with what I have been working on.  Much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David J. Gall
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 5:57 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tuft test video

 

Jay,

You’re too kind <blush>.

Start with CP59 page 5, titled “The Bungee Elevator Trim System.” This talks about elevator shape and trim speed. Then read CP43 page 1 to put the CP59 comments in context. CP47 page 8 gives info on correct vs. incorrect elevator trailing edge shape. Also see CP 34 page 5 and CP 35 pp. 2-5. See also CP 20 page 3 for some counter-intuitive comments about elevator chord.

 

You must have the full scanned/photocopied versions of these CPs for them to make sense because of the charts and graphs; the text-only versions available from some online repositories are not adequate for full understanding of what’s being said.

 

If you don’t have the actual newsletters or the TERF CD, here’s one repo: http://v2.ez.org/canard.htm

 

Happy researching,

 

 

David J. Gall

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 12:38 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tuft test video

 

Hi David,

 

Always appreciate your input. I will have a look at the issue of Canard Pusher and get refresh my memory. Thanks for the tip.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David J. Gall
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 1:00 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tuft test video

 

Jay,

 

I concur: Eliminate the sparrow strainers (they’re a hack anyway) and, instead, design an elevator that has a small amount of reflex on its trailing edge. That is exactly what John Roncz did on his Long-EZ canard replacement airfoil in the 1980s that is now the standard airfoil for those planes. The elevator “floating angle” should give the needed elevator deflection to make the canard give just the right amount of lift for a slow cruise speed, around 1.3 to 1.4 times stall speed. Rutan spells out this requirement in his Canard Pusher issue … 59(?) … where he discusses all the design requirements for pitch trim stability of canard airplanes. This “fix” could also be applied to the GU canard….

I can’t wait to see your results!

 

 

David J. Gall

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 11:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tuft test video

 

Good point Mike. That was Charlie’s suggestion also, based on his experience from his dragonfly.   I have a redesigned elevator on the drawing board that I have discussed before on this forum that is neutral in trail, so would not require the strainer. Sometime when I get the motivation, I will build a new set of elevators using this design and flight test them.

 

The LS-1 airfoil was never designed to have an articulated control surface.  I think the use on the Q200 was a bit of a hack, so required the sparrow strainer to correct the unintended consequences. The LS-1 is still the primary airfoil used on wind turbines, since it is very resistant to degraded performance caused by surface contamination, but those blades are one piece, so it is the perfect choice.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 12:28 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tuft test video

 

Great video Jay.  Agreed, looks like a drag point to me also.  Strainer looks to be in turbulent air.  Maybe a smaller strainer mounted in the air below would be better?

Fly Safe,

Mike Dwyer

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 

On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 7:37 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

 

I put the camera back on today and added some yarn tufts to the side of he fuselage, the canard root strake, the elevator and the sparrow strainer.  The video goes from runup through take off, then a pass at 1000 AGL along the runway and normal cruise with a couple of slow climbs. The tufts seem to lay down nicely with my contours on the strakes, which makes me happy, but the tufts on the sparrow strainer show that it is perpetually stalled. This is shown by the tufts from the top of the strainer wrapping around to the bottom of the strainer and occurs  at any airspeed above 80 mph. Alhtough the sparrow strainer works nicely to push down against the up-pushing of the undercamber on the elevator, this is a huge drag point on the airplane, and I am sure it limits the high speed performance significantly. There has to be a better way to do this …….

 

https://youtu.be/N-Gnd_CSywA

 

Cheers,

Jay


Re: N131PS For Sale

Mike Dwyer
 

Mostly behind the seats.  I can store about 5 roll bags there and because I don't have rudder pedals on the passenger side I store the heaviest bag in front of the passengers feet.  One time coming back from the Bahamas I was unloading at customs and they were astounded at all the stuff I pulled out!
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022, 6:12 PM Fredd Baber <freddb43@...> wrote:
Where exactly is “baggage” in a Quickie?

Fredd Baber


On Feb 20, 2022, at 1:48 PM, Terrence ONeill <troneill@...> wrote:

Michael, firm price $28,500.

Pics:


_,_







---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: wacodriver@...
To: troneill@...
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 13:09:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Larry’s Arizona Q-2
Terrence,
     Some photographs and information on N131PS: Serial number 2520 was built June, 1997, it has 870TT as of today. The Revmaster was swapped for a  120 HP Jabiru 3300 June 2002, it has 676 TT now.  It has a spartan interior in good shape and minimal VFR avionics and panel.
This photograph was taken on the ramp at Durango Colorado this past Christmas.
200 MPH low pass


Re: Tuft test video

David J. Gall
 

Jay,

You’re too kind <blush>.

Start with CP59 page 5, titled “The Bungee Elevator Trim System.” This talks about elevator shape and trim speed. Then read CP43 page 1 to put the CP59 comments in context. CP47 page 8 gives info on correct vs. incorrect elevator trailing edge shape. Also see CP 34 page 5 and CP 35 pp. 2-5. See also CP 20 page 3 for some counter-intuitive comments about elevator chord.

 

You must have the full scanned/photocopied versions of these CPs for them to make sense because of the charts and graphs; the text-only versions available from some online repositories are not adequate for full understanding of what’s being said.

 

If you don’t have the actual newsletters or the TERF CD, here’s one repo: http://v2.ez.org/canard.htm

 

Happy researching,

 

 

David J. Gall

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 12:38 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tuft test video

 

Hi David,

 

Always appreciate your input. I will have a look at the issue of Canard Pusher and get refresh my memory. Thanks for the tip.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David J. Gall
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 1:00 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tuft test video

 

Jay,

 

I concur: Eliminate the sparrow strainers (they’re a hack anyway) and, instead, design an elevator that has a small amount of reflex on its trailing edge. That is exactly what John Roncz did on his Long-EZ canard replacement airfoil in the 1980s that is now the standard airfoil for those planes. The elevator “floating angle” should give the needed elevator deflection to make the canard give just the right amount of lift for a slow cruise speed, around 1.3 to 1.4 times stall speed. Rutan spells out this requirement in his Canard Pusher issue … 59(?) … where he discusses all the design requirements for pitch trim stability of canard airplanes. This “fix” could also be applied to the GU canard….

I can’t wait to see your results!

 

 

David J. Gall

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 11:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tuft test video

 

Good point Mike. That was Charlie’s suggestion also, based on his experience from his dragonfly.   I have a redesigned elevator on the drawing board that I have discussed before on this forum that is neutral in trail, so would not require the strainer. Sometime when I get the motivation, I will build a new set of elevators using this design and flight test them.

 

The LS-1 airfoil was never designed to have an articulated control surface.  I think the use on the Q200 was a bit of a hack, so required the sparrow strainer to correct the unintended consequences. The LS-1 is still the primary airfoil used on wind turbines, since it is very resistant to degraded performance caused by surface contamination, but those blades are one piece, so it is the perfect choice.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 12:28 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tuft test video

 

Great video Jay.  Agreed, looks like a drag point to me also.  Strainer looks to be in turbulent air.  Maybe a smaller strainer mounted in the air below would be better?

Fly Safe,

Mike Dwyer

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 

On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 7:37 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

 

I put the camera back on today and added some yarn tufts to the side of he fuselage, the canard root strake, the elevator and the sparrow strainer.  The video goes from runup through take off, then a pass at 1000 AGL along the runway and normal cruise with a couple of slow climbs. The tufts seem to lay down nicely with my contours on the strakes, which makes me happy, but the tufts on the sparrow strainer show that it is perpetually stalled. This is shown by the tufts from the top of the strainer wrapping around to the bottom of the strainer and occurs  at any airspeed above 80 mph. Alhtough the sparrow strainer works nicely to push down against the up-pushing of the undercamber on the elevator, this is a huge drag point on the airplane, and I am sure it limits the high speed performance significantly. There has to be a better way to do this …….

 

https://youtu.be/N-Gnd_CSywA

 

Cheers,

Jay

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