Date   

Re: LS1 midspan hinge repair

Chris Walterson
 

I was building from scratch so I installed 2  equilly placed hinge points rather than the 1 central one. I have a inboard gear so there is no load on the hinge rather than elevator load . If your wheels are at the canard tip, the hinge will take pressure when landing if there isn't enough play built in.

take care------------  Chris


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Re: LS1 midspan hinge repair

Frankenbird Vern
 

 Charlie.. do our Dragonfly Canards share this issue? If so then I'll be modifying. I figured it was fatigue..and probably from propeller thrust 
variations. Just my guess as to why. First thing that came to mind was adding doublers but I'll look at Jay's solution. My canard has not flown, 
but the hinges are installed. I will be building both elevators new.   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 7:20 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
Vern,

These center hinges have failed before. Steel is a lot better in fatigue than Al  but if the inflight stress levels are close to the limit it is an insidious problem. It is obviously not a shear failure of they would be breaking upon loading.

Reducing stress is the only answer. This is a materials problem. Either increase cross section, increase load transfer points, or redesign like Jay has done.

Fatigue = repeated cyclic loading below the yield point internal material flaws move to high stress areas over time resulting in cracks and final failure at loads below the design point.

My $0.02 worth of armchair analysis.

Regards,

Charlie


On Monday, May 9, 2022, 4:47 AM, Frankenbird Vern <smeshno1@...> wrote:

 Mike.. if Bob or Jim can photo the fail and present it? ..might give some idea of what the cause was.

  Could be from not breaking the sharp edges or possibly the material itself.  .125" is fairly robust so it makes
 me wonder why. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Terry Crouch via groups.io <Q1terryMDT@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 2:46 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
There are 6 appendix sheets for the LS1, CS-17 is on the first one.  Send me your phone # Mike and I will send a photo.

Terry Crouch
Quickie N14TC


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike via groups.io <n7000t@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 8, 2022 12:15 pm
Subject: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

Hi all,
I flew my Q200 to Livermore recently to have bob Farnahm ( original builder) help me do my condition inspection. Upon removal of the right elevator we found the midspan hinge was broken. Bob and Jim Patillo have offered to fix in my absence and since I live in Nevada. Problem is none of us can find the LS1 addendum for the Q200. Especially needing the CS17 part to help with the fix. I’ve been on quick heads and Jon finley’ site to no avail. Does anyone have a PDF file you can send me on that topic (maybe Sam that has rebuilt his canard?
Thanks in advance 

Mike Q200.   N200QK.    
pM me please 


Re: LS1 midspan hinge repair

Richard Thomson
 

    Thanks Jim 

    Its on my schedule as an annual check item, along with greasing the hinges and checking the pins.

    I do the check looking for movement at the hinge as a confidence improver on the Pre-taxi. (That will be a Preflight whenever it gets that far).


    I take it the mags are not removed due to the AV30 install?

    Rich

   

On 09/05/2022 17:12, Jim Patillo wrote:
Richard, I do that same check but simply pushing up and down on the mid point may not tell the whole story. If the elevator slot and elevator fit closely, there may not be enough room to fully check the movement up and down.  That’s why it’s a good idea to check this at yearly inspection.

Don’t know if the plane was flown here with the mid pivot gone or not. Don’t know if the elevator delay took place in flight or not. 

Jim
N46JP Q200 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Thomson <richard@...>
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 8:58:24 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 

    So had Mike flown with this broken support and not realised, or had it broken on the ground ?

    Could the delam on the elevator have been caused by flexing in flight after it failed?

    On my walk around I do a check of the mid point support by gently looking for up and down movement.

    This was suggested by somebody on this list a long time ago and seemed a sensible check to have on my list.

    But I do like Jays solution, its solid. Looks like it could be retrofitable. its on my list of improvements.


    Rich T

   


On 09/05/2022 15:23, Jim Patillo wrote:
The right elevator mid point mount failed about halfway between the pivot and the floxed in base. We couldn’t determine when or how the failure occurred. However Mike called me in January saying he did have an issue with that elevator making a rubbing noise, on his original flight down to Bolder. 
I looked at my plans for the actual part but couldn’t find it. We must have glued the original template directly on the aluminum before cutting it out. If anyone has an original template available, it would be greatly appreciated since the mount may have been modified to fit a spar instead of a shear web. Sam H, what did you use for a template when you built your new canard? 

The elevator trailing edge was also delaminated about 18”, kinda weird. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

PS. I finished the install of my dual AV30’s over the weekend and removed 9.5 lbs from the airplane. No mags, no vacuum system. The mini AHARS have several functions, including EFIS, Legacy and Vintage Displays GPS Arc, etc. 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Frankenbird Vern <smeshno1@...>
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 4:47:23 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
 Mike.. if Bob or Jim can photo the fail and present it? ..might give some idea of what the cause was.

  Could be from not breaking the sharp edges or possibly the material itself.  .125" is fairly robust so it makes
 me wonder why. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Terry Crouch via groups.io <Q1terryMDT@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 2:46 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
There are 6 appendix sheets for the LS1, CS-17 is on the first one.  Send me your phone # Mike and I will send a photo.

Terry Crouch
Quickie N14TC


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike via groups.io <n7000t@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 8, 2022 12:15 pm
Subject: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

Hi all,
I flew my Q200 to Livermore recently to have bob Farnahm ( original builder) help me do my condition inspection. Upon removal of the right elevator we found the midspan hinge was broken. Bob and Jim Patillo have offered to fix in my absence and since I live in Nevada. Problem is none of us can find the LS1 addendum for the Q200. Especially needing the CS17 part to help with the fix. I’ve been on quick heads and Jon finley’ site to no avail. Does anyone have a PDF file you can send me on that topic (maybe Sam that has rebuilt his canard?
Thanks in advance 

Mike Q200.   N200QK.    
pM me please 


Re: Quickie Part Specs & Details

Jay Scheevel
 

OK, I get it now. If that works, no new ailerons required. I would only caution again not to get the part too hot. The aluminum will transfer heat directly to the foam and you don’t want to damage the foam and/or the epoxy. Good luck.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Schmid
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 12:30 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Part Specs & Details

 

Bad explanation on my part I am sure … Yes we cut the connecting CS11 right at the 1in spacer, and now the connecting rod is stuck inside the aileron torque tube. But I figured we can carefully drill the remaining couple inches of the connecting rod out of the torque tube and save the aileron … start with 1/2 bit and work our way slowly up to where the inside brakes loose.

Does that make sense?
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Replace steel tubes with carbon?

 

Given my rescue project was sitting outside for a while, some of the steel tubes/connecting rods are corroded and I am inspecting them all. Some of them I had to cut already so I am wondering if replacing steel connecting rods with carbon tubes is a good idea.

Quickie brain trust … What are your thoughts? Replacing steel with carbon? And yes I know, I still need to watch corrosion due to dislike conductive materials.
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Re: Quickie Part Specs & Details

 

Bad explanation on my part I am sure … Yes we cut the connecting CS11 right at the 1in spacer, and now the connecting rod is stuck inside the aileron torque tube. But I figured we can carefully drill the remaining couple inches of the connecting rod out of the torque tube and save the aileron … start with 1/2 bit and work our way slowly up to where the inside brakes loose.

Does that make sense?
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Re: Quickie Part Specs & Details

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Robert,

 

If you are wondering about the original kit parts, you can look at the following document of mine: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/01_N8WQ-log_Preliminary_Inventory_Purchase_Records.pdf

 

The steel tubing parts are listed in the shipping checklists (an excerpt from above document). The 72” long 5/8” tubing shown below is what was used for the torque tubes in the ailerons and elevators.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Schmid
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 11:58 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Part Specs & Details

 

Jay - I am confused. Why would I make new ailerons when all I need is the connector rod between the ailerons and the controls inside the fuselage? What am I missing?

What I am looking for is specs on the metal parts, type, wall thickness, length etc.

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Re: Quickie Part Specs & Details

Jay Scheevel
 

I thought you said you had to cut them off and leave the steel in the aileron torque tube…What am I missing?

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Schmid
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 11:58 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Part Specs & Details

 

Jay - I am confused. Why would I make new ailerons when all I need is the connector rod between the ailerons and the controls inside the fuselage? What am I missing?

What I am looking for is specs on the metal parts, type, wall thickness, length etc.

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Re: Quickie Part Specs & Details

 

Jay - I am confused. Why would I make new ailerons when all I need is the connector rod between the ailerons and the controls inside the fuselage? What am I missing?

What I am looking for is specs on the metal parts, type, wall thickness, length etc.

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Re: Quickie Part Specs & Details

Michael Dunning
 

And thanks to Sam Hoskins there is a way better set of photo instructions to follow now, if you do make new ones!

LS(1) 0417 MOD CANARD INSTRUCTIONS

Epoxy Wipe for Composite Aircraft Finishing

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)


Re: Quickie Part Specs & Details

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Robert,

 

Of all of the flying surfaces, the ailerons are probably the easiest to build. Maybe it would be best to build new ones and go from there. The materials are all available from spruce and the hotwire is easy to make from hardware store materials. You can probably recover the internal parts (QCSM-7’s) from the scrap ailerons, so no need to make those.

 

Including reading and comprehending the plans for the project, setting up the table and making the parts, it is probably a 3-weekend project to build new ailerons (not counting filling and finishing). My two cents.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Schmid
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 9:29 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Part Specs & Details

 

So my aileron connection tube CS11 is bye bye, corroded and needed to be cut into pieces to get the ailerons out. And yes I could just use my calipers and measure it out but I was wondering ... Is there a parts list of the various items with specs, sizes etc? I am looking for motor mount drawings as well, so there is a few of them.

I purchased the full set of plans from https://www.canardzone.com/store/product/9-q2-q-200-construction-plans/?ct=1652110002 but its missing details which I was hoping you have or have seen somewhere.

Thanks Robert 
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Re: LS1 midspan hinge repair

Jim Patillo
 

Richard, I do that same check but simply pushing up and down on the mid point may not tell the whole story. If the elevator slot and elevator fit closely, there may not be enough room to fully check the movement up and down.  That’s why it’s a good idea to check this at yearly inspection.

Don’t know if the plane was flown here with the mid pivot gone or not. Don’t know if the elevator delay took place in flight or not. 

Jim
N46JP Q200 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Thomson <richard@...>
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 8:58:24 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 

    So had Mike flown with this broken support and not realised, or had it broken on the ground ?

    Could the delam on the elevator have been caused by flexing in flight after it failed?

    On my walk around I do a check of the mid point support by gently looking for up and down movement.

    This was suggested by somebody on this list a long time ago and seemed a sensible check to have on my list.

    But I do like Jays solution, its solid. Looks like it could be retrofitable. its on my list of improvements.


    Rich T

   


On 09/05/2022 15:23, Jim Patillo wrote:
The right elevator mid point mount failed about halfway between the pivot and the floxed in base. We couldn’t determine when or how the failure occurred. However Mike called me in January saying he did have an issue with that elevator making a rubbing noise, on his original flight down to Bolder. 
I looked at my plans for the actual part but couldn’t find it. We must have glued the original template directly on the aluminum before cutting it out. If anyone has an original template available, it would be greatly appreciated since the mount may have been modified to fit a spar instead of a shear web. Sam H, what did you use for a template when you built your new canard? 

The elevator trailing edge was also delaminated about 18”, kinda weird. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

PS. I finished the install of my dual AV30’s over the weekend and removed 9.5 lbs from the airplane. No mags, no vacuum system. The mini AHARS have several functions, including EFIS, Legacy and Vintage Displays GPS Arc, etc. 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Frankenbird Vern <smeshno1@...>
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 4:47:23 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
 Mike.. if Bob or Jim can photo the fail and present it? ..might give some idea of what the cause was.

  Could be from not breaking the sharp edges or possibly the material itself.  .125" is fairly robust so it makes
 me wonder why. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Terry Crouch via groups.io <Q1terryMDT@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 2:46 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
There are 6 appendix sheets for the LS1, CS-17 is on the first one.  Send me your phone # Mike and I will send a photo.

Terry Crouch
Quickie N14TC


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike via groups.io <n7000t@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 8, 2022 12:15 pm
Subject: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

Hi all,
I flew my Q200 to Livermore recently to have bob Farnahm ( original builder) help me do my condition inspection. Upon removal of the right elevator we found the midspan hinge was broken. Bob and Jim Patillo have offered to fix in my absence and since I live in Nevada. Problem is none of us can find the LS1 addendum for the Q200. Especially needing the CS17 part to help with the fix. I’ve been on quick heads and Jon finley’ site to no avail. Does anyone have a PDF file you can send me on that topic (maybe Sam that has rebuilt his canard?
Thanks in advance 

Mike Q200.   N200QK.    
pM me please 


Re: LS1 midspan hinge repair

Richard Thomson
 

    So had Mike flown with this broken support and not realised, or had it broken on the ground ?

    Could the delam on the elevator have been caused by flexing in flight after it failed?

    On my walk around I do a check of the mid point support by gently looking for up and down movement.

    This was suggested by somebody on this list a long time ago and seemed a sensible check to have on my list.

    But I do like Jays solution, its solid. Looks like it could be retrofitable. its on my list of improvements.


    Rich T

   


On 09/05/2022 15:23, Jim Patillo wrote:
The right elevator mid point mount failed about halfway between the pivot and the floxed in base. We couldn’t determine when or how the failure occurred. However Mike called me in January saying he did have an issue with that elevator making a rubbing noise, on his original flight down to Bolder. 
I looked at my plans for the actual part but couldn’t find it. We must have glued the original template directly on the aluminum before cutting it out. If anyone has an original template available, it would be greatly appreciated since the mount may have been modified to fit a spar instead of a shear web. Sam H, what did you use for a template when you built your new canard? 

The elevator trailing edge was also delaminated about 18”, kinda weird. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

PS. I finished the install of my dual AV30’s over the weekend and removed 9.5 lbs from the airplane. No mags, no vacuum system. The mini AHARS have several functions, including EFIS, Legacy and Vintage Displays GPS Arc, etc. 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Frankenbird Vern <smeshno1@...>
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 4:47:23 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
 Mike.. if Bob or Jim can photo the fail and present it? ..might give some idea of what the cause was.

  Could be from not breaking the sharp edges or possibly the material itself.  .125" is fairly robust so it makes
 me wonder why. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Terry Crouch via groups.io <Q1terryMDT@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 2:46 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
There are 6 appendix sheets for the LS1, CS-17 is on the first one.  Send me your phone # Mike and I will send a photo.

Terry Crouch
Quickie N14TC


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike via groups.io <n7000t@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 8, 2022 12:15 pm
Subject: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

Hi all,
I flew my Q200 to Livermore recently to have bob Farnahm ( original builder) help me do my condition inspection. Upon removal of the right elevator we found the midspan hinge was broken. Bob and Jim Patillo have offered to fix in my absence and since I live in Nevada. Problem is none of us can find the LS1 addendum for the Q200. Especially needing the CS17 part to help with the fix. I’ve been on quick heads and Jon finley’ site to no avail. Does anyone have a PDF file you can send me on that topic (maybe Sam that has rebuilt his canard?
Thanks in advance 

Mike Q200.   N200QK.    
pM me please 


Quickie Part Specs & Details

 

So my aileron connection tube CS11 is bye bye, corroded and needed to be cut into pieces to get the ailerons out. And yes I could just use my calipers and measure it out but I was wondering ... Is there a parts list of the various items with specs, sizes etc? I am looking for motor mount drawings as well, so there is a few of them.

I purchased the full set of plans from https://www.canardzone.com/store/product/9-q2-q-200-construction-plans/?ct=1652110002 but its missing details which I was hoping you have or have seen somewhere.

Thanks Robert 
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Re: LS1 midspan hinge repair

Jay Scheevel
 

Another option would be to cut two pieces of .125” 6061 sheet, put the broken part back in place and sandwich it between the two new pieces of 6061 (like a splint), then drill and rivet the sandwich together. The 6061 will not crack as easily as the original alloy that quickie provided and will give a good seat for the rivets and the sandwich will be plenty strong. This all assumes there is enough clearance and remaining meat on the broken piece to allow this fix.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 8:23 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

 

The right elevator mid point mount failed about halfway between the pivot and the floxed in base. We couldn’t determine when or how the failure occurred. However Mike called me in January saying he did have an issue with that elevator making a rubbing noise, on his original flight down to Bolder. 

I looked at my plans for the actual part but couldn’t find it. We must have glued the original template directly on the aluminum before cutting it out. If anyone has an original template available, it would be greatly appreciated since the mount may have been modified to fit a spar instead of a shear web. Sam H, what did you use for a template when you built your new canard? 



The elevator trailing edge was also delaminated about 18”, kinda weird. 

 

Jim

N46JP Q200

 

PS. I finished the install of my dual AV30’s over the weekend and removed 9.5 lbs from the airplane. No mags, no vacuum system. The mini AHARS have several functions, including EFIS, Legacy and Vintage Displays GPS Arc, etc. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Frankenbird Vern <smeshno1@...>
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 4:47:23 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

 

 Mike.. if Bob or Jim can photo the fail and present it? ..might give some idea of what the cause was.

 

  Could be from not breaking the sharp edges or possibly the material itself.  .125" is fairly robust so it makes

 me wonder why. 

 

Vern   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Terry Crouch via groups.io <Q1terryMDT@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 2:46 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

 

There are 6 appendix sheets for the LS1, CS-17 is on the first one.  Send me your phone # Mike and I will send a photo.

 

Terry Crouch

Quickie N14TC

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike via groups.io <n7000t@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 8, 2022 12:15 pm
Subject: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

Hi all,
I flew my Q200 to Livermore recently to have bob Farnahm ( original builder) help me do my condition inspection. Upon removal of the right elevator we found the midspan hinge was broken. Bob and Jim Patillo have offered to fix in my absence and since I live in Nevada. Problem is none of us can find the LS1 addendum for the Q200. Especially needing the CS17 part to help with the fix. I’ve been on quick heads and Jon finley’ site to no avail. Does anyone have a PDF file you can send me on that topic (maybe Sam that has rebuilt his canard?
Thanks in advance 

Mike Q200.   N200QK.    

pM me please 


Re: LS1 midspan hinge repair

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Jim,

 

I will look at home for my original sheets. I bet I have it. If I do, I will send a photo of the original and you can size it appropriately from that. Won’t be back home until this evening, but I will check then.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 8:23 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

 

The right elevator mid point mount failed about halfway between the pivot and the floxed in base. We couldn’t determine when or how the failure occurred. However Mike called me in January saying he did have an issue with that elevator making a rubbing noise, on his original flight down to Bolder. 

I looked at my plans for the actual part but couldn’t find it. We must have glued the original template directly on the aluminum before cutting it out. If anyone has an original template available, it would be greatly appreciated since the mount may have been modified to fit a spar instead of a shear web. Sam H, what did you use for a template when you built your new canard? 



The elevator trailing edge was also delaminated about 18”, kinda weird. 

 

Jim

N46JP Q200

 

PS. I finished the install of my dual AV30’s over the weekend and removed 9.5 lbs from the airplane. No mags, no vacuum system. The mini AHARS have several functions, including EFIS, Legacy and Vintage Displays GPS Arc, etc. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Frankenbird Vern <smeshno1@...>
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 4:47:23 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

 

 Mike.. if Bob or Jim can photo the fail and present it? ..might give some idea of what the cause was.

 

  Could be from not breaking the sharp edges or possibly the material itself.  .125" is fairly robust so it makes

 me wonder why. 

 

Vern   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Terry Crouch via groups.io <Q1terryMDT@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 2:46 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

 

There are 6 appendix sheets for the LS1, CS-17 is on the first one.  Send me your phone # Mike and I will send a photo.

 

Terry Crouch

Quickie N14TC

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike via groups.io <n7000t@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 8, 2022 12:15 pm
Subject: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

Hi all,
I flew my Q200 to Livermore recently to have bob Farnahm ( original builder) help me do my condition inspection. Upon removal of the right elevator we found the midspan hinge was broken. Bob and Jim Patillo have offered to fix in my absence and since I live in Nevada. Problem is none of us can find the LS1 addendum for the Q200. Especially needing the CS17 part to help with the fix. I’ve been on quick heads and Jon finley’ site to no avail. Does anyone have a PDF file you can send me on that topic (maybe Sam that has rebuilt his canard?
Thanks in advance 

Mike Q200.   N200QK.    

pM me please 


Re: LS1 midspan hinge repair

Jay Scheevel
 

I would agree with Charlie. This is definitely a weak point, and Aluminum, unlike steel, has no fatigue stress floor, meaning that it will fail at some point regardless of stress, just lower stress will buy you more time/cycles until failure.  My opinion is that the construction sequence for this part in the QAC plans also is less than optimal. There is no attention to detail in the plans that ensure that the ¼” pin in the CS-17 will end up axially parallel to the torque tube. If it is not, then every movement of elevator up or down adds both wear and stress as it flexes the part. In the installation of my redesigned version, I made sure that I fully installed the elevator prior to the flox curing on my version of CS-17. This way, I could move the elevator through its entire range and make sure the CS-17 worked its way into a final position that was perfectly perpendicular to the elevator torque tube prior to the flox fully curing.  I would recommend is a mounting procedure that is similar for the standard CS-17 installation.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 6:20 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

 

Vern,

 

These center hinges have failed before. Steel is a lot better in fatigue than Al  but if the inflight stress levels are close to the limit it is an insidious problem. It is obviously not a shear failure of they would be breaking upon loading.

Reducing stress is the only answer. This is a materials problem. Either increase cross section, increase load transfer points, or redesign like Jay has done.

Fatigue = repeated cyclic loading below the yield point internal material flaws move to high stress areas over time resulting in cracks and final failure at loads below the design point.

 

My $0.02 worth of armchair analysis.

 

Regards,

 

Charlie

 

On Monday, May 9, 2022, 4:47 AM, Frankenbird Vern <smeshno1@...> wrote:

 Mike.. if Bob or Jim can photo the fail and present it? ..might give some idea of what the cause was.

 

  Could be from not breaking the sharp edges or possibly the material itself.  .125" is fairly robust so it makes

 me wonder why. 

 

Vern   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Terry Crouch via groups.io <Q1terryMDT@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 2:46 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

 

There are 6 appendix sheets for the LS1, CS-17 is on the first one.  Send me your phone # Mike and I will send a photo.

 

Terry Crouch

Quickie N14TC

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike via groups.io <n7000t@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 8, 2022 12:15 pm
Subject: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

Hi all,
I flew my Q200 to Livermore recently to have bob Farnahm ( original builder) help me do my condition inspection. Upon removal of the right elevator we found the midspan hinge was broken. Bob and Jim Patillo have offered to fix in my absence and since I live in Nevada. Problem is none of us can find the LS1 addendum for the Q200. Especially needing the CS17 part to help with the fix. I’ve been on quick heads and Jon finley’ site to no avail. Does anyone have a PDF file you can send me on that topic (maybe Sam that has rebuilt his canard?
Thanks in advance 

Mike Q200.   N200QK.    

pM me please 


Re: LS1 midspan hinge repair

Jim Patillo
 

The right elevator mid point mount failed about halfway between the pivot and the floxed in base. We couldn’t determine when or how the failure occurred. However Mike called me in January saying he did have an issue with that elevator making a rubbing noise, on his original flight down to Bolder. 
I looked at my plans for the actual part but couldn’t find it. We must have glued the original template directly on the aluminum before cutting it out. If anyone has an original template available, it would be greatly appreciated since the mount may have been modified to fit a spar instead of a shear web. Sam H, what did you use for a template when you built your new canard? 

The elevator trailing edge was also delaminated about 18”, kinda weird. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

PS. I finished the install of my dual AV30’s over the weekend and removed 9.5 lbs from the airplane. No mags, no vacuum system. The mini AHARS have several functions, including EFIS, Legacy and Vintage Displays GPS Arc, etc. 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Frankenbird Vern <smeshno1@...>
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 4:47:23 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
 Mike.. if Bob or Jim can photo the fail and present it? ..might give some idea of what the cause was.

  Could be from not breaking the sharp edges or possibly the material itself.  .125" is fairly robust so it makes
 me wonder why. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Terry Crouch via groups.io <Q1terryMDT@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 2:46 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
There are 6 appendix sheets for the LS1, CS-17 is on the first one.  Send me your phone # Mike and I will send a photo.

Terry Crouch
Quickie N14TC


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike via groups.io <n7000t@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 8, 2022 12:15 pm
Subject: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

Hi all,
I flew my Q200 to Livermore recently to have bob Farnahm ( original builder) help me do my condition inspection. Upon removal of the right elevator we found the midspan hinge was broken. Bob and Jim Patillo have offered to fix in my absence and since I live in Nevada. Problem is none of us can find the LS1 addendum for the Q200. Especially needing the CS17 part to help with the fix. I’ve been on quick heads and Jon finley’ site to no avail. Does anyone have a PDF file you can send me on that topic (maybe Sam that has rebuilt his canard?
Thanks in advance 

Mike Q200.   N200QK.    
pM me please 


Re: LS1 midspan hinge repair

One Sky Dog
 

Vern,

These center hinges have failed before. Steel is a lot better in fatigue than Al  but if the inflight stress levels are close to the limit it is an insidious problem. It is obviously not a shear failure of they would be breaking upon loading.

Reducing stress is the only answer. This is a materials problem. Either increase cross section, increase load transfer points, or redesign like Jay has done.

Fatigue = repeated cyclic loading below the yield point internal material flaws move to high stress areas over time resulting in cracks and final failure at loads below the design point.

My $0.02 worth of armchair analysis.

Regards,

On Monday, May 9, 2022, 4:47 AM, Frankenbird Vern <smeshno1@...> wrote:

 Mike.. if Bob or Jim can photo the fail and present it? ..might give some idea of what the cause was.

  Could be from not breaking the sharp edges or possibly the material itself.  .125" is fairly robust so it makes
 me wonder why. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Terry Crouch via groups.io <Q1terryMDT@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 2:46 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
There are 6 appendix sheets for the LS1, CS-17 is on the first one.  Send me your phone # Mike and I will send a photo.

Terry Crouch
Quickie N14TC


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike via groups.io <n7000t@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 8, 2022 12:15 pm
Subject: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

Hi all,
I flew my Q200 to Livermore recently to have bob Farnahm ( original builder) help me do my condition inspection. Upon removal of the right elevator we found the midspan hinge was broken. Bob and Jim Patillo have offered to fix in my absence and since I live in Nevada. Problem is none of us can find the LS1 addendum for the Q200. Especially needing the CS17 part to help with the fix. I’ve been on quick heads and Jon finley’ site to no avail. Does anyone have a PDF file you can send me on that topic (maybe Sam that has rebuilt his canard?
Thanks in advance 

Mike Q200.   N200QK.    
pM me please 


Re: LS1 midspan hinge repair

Frankenbird Vern
 

 Mike.. if Bob or Jim can photo the fail and present it? ..might give some idea of what the cause was.

  Could be from not breaking the sharp edges or possibly the material itself.  .125" is fairly robust so it makes
 me wonder why. 

Vern   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Terry Crouch via groups.io <Q1terryMDT@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 2:46 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair
 
There are 6 appendix sheets for the LS1, CS-17 is on the first one.  Send me your phone # Mike and I will send a photo.

Terry Crouch
Quickie N14TC


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike via groups.io <n7000t@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 8, 2022 12:15 pm
Subject: [Q-List] LS1 midspan hinge repair

Hi all,
I flew my Q200 to Livermore recently to have bob Farnahm ( original builder) help me do my condition inspection. Upon removal of the right elevator we found the midspan hinge was broken. Bob and Jim Patillo have offered to fix in my absence and since I live in Nevada. Problem is none of us can find the LS1 addendum for the Q200. Especially needing the CS17 part to help with the fix. I’ve been on quick heads and Jon finley’ site to no avail. Does anyone have a PDF file you can send me on that topic (maybe Sam that has rebuilt his canard?
Thanks in advance 

Mike Q200.   N200QK.    
pM me please 

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