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{Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system
Les a ballistic chute is good if you are in the air, doesn't do much
on the ground upside down. Jim P. --- In Q-LIST@..., "les shockley" <les@...> wrote: for the race car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired arm. Onboard fire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a ballistic chute (rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole senario. ----- Original Message -----over them and lived to talk about it, I thought he might be a good place toof security. Its like pissing in the wind, its kind of fun butdoesn't get you anywhere.2). that a crash hammer would even work. Have you ever tried breakingout a rounded lexan canopy so that you know it works? Has anyone? I'mof our resident wizards. I love my airplane but I am very concernedabout this negative scenerio. It can happen to anyone regardless of theirallows it to be jettisoned in a couple of seconds. This may save me inan inflight to ground situation like Phil's but does nothing for alanding that goes bad and inverts the plane quickly with me goingunconscious. Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolledaround and got his feet on the ground and pushed the plane up and off ofhim and Sherry. He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done muchgood. Luckily for him, the canopy already ripped off. In fact he wasvery happy the canopy was gone.collectively came up with a solution that would be best treated like an AD.one needs to be addressed and resolved!list. It > is mounted high above/between the seats.---------- 3/13/2007 4:51 PM
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{Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system
Sam good to hear you're in the air again! I think I 'll go for a hot
lap this afternoon as well. It's good to know the canopies are Plexiglas (I presume we all agree on that, yes - no). When I cut my original canopy I didn't have much of a problem. Have you ever tried to get one "started" while sitting in the cockpit? Has anyone? Maybe an agressive folding saw could work but where do you cut? There's not much room between the arm rests and the canopy. Is it realistic to presume one could get a saw tip through the canopy if it wasn't cracked already. Remember a fire may be going and you may be unconcious. It probably better than nothing but how effective will that procedure be. Has anyone ever cut themselves out of a Q? I curious because I have nothing in my cockpit to break or cut with at this time. The only thing I have going is the quick release system I mentioned. Regards, Jim P. --- In Q-LIST@..., "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...> wrote: it started. I have been through a few of them.the Panzera"previous e-mailer said "he beat the P--- out of it". If someone is testing<panzera@> wrote:exploded. arm.for therace car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired ballisticOnboardfire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a chutesenario.(rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole
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Re: {Disarmed} RE: Ethanol and FG resin
rdixon <rdixon@...>
Peter,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
You are correct, those links did not specifically address the question of resin damage, however: http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2005/october/alert.asp This article specifically speaks of the fuel additive 'eating' the resin, but the large proportion of vessels are built with polyester resin as opposed to epoxy resin in the Q. Then there are the epoxy tests: http://www.boatus.com/Seaworthy/fueltest.asp Here is a quote * "Chemical Resistance Data From A Leading Epoxy Supplier.* The test was made using the company's most resistant epoxy and exposing fiberglass lab samples to 10% ethanol gas and regular unleaded gas as well as diesel and aviation gas. The results for the ethanol gas showed a 10% loss in hardness and a 10-15% loss of compressive strength over a 16 week period. It is likely that the loss of hardness and strength would continue to fall at a similar rate over time. The unleaded gas, diesel, and aviation gas tests showed virtually no change." http://www.boatsurveyshawaii.com/page9.html Robert Peter Harris wrote:
--
Robert Dixon The Estuarium at the Dauphin Island Sea Lab 101 Bienville Blvd. Dauphin Island, AL. 36528 Ph:251-861-7550 Fx:251-861-7592 www.disl.org
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Re: Ethanol and FG resin
drcastrojc <drcastrojc@...>
Alo Peter
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I used to live in US but now I am living in Brazil. We have a long way in this matter since we are using ethanol as fuel or adding it in the car fuel for more than 30 years. I read something about a company " Ara Ashland" http://www.araquimica.com.br producing a special kind of Isofitalic resin and a composite able to stand exposition to alcool without problems. I wold suggest a Google search for more data in the isoftalic resin. I sent an email asking for more techincal data about this matter, and as soon as I get more information I will be glad to share it with the group. The site is in Portuguese, unfortunatelly, but I can help you with translation if your web translator does not work properly. Castro
R thanks,
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17th Annual Field of Dreams Tandem Wing Fly-in -- Emporia, KS Sep 21-23 2007
Spud Spornitz <spudspornitz@...>
Hello Gang,
Spud Spornitz here in Olathe, Kansas. It again is my great pleasure to be your host for this year's "17th Annual Field of Dreams Tandem Wing Fly-in". This year the event will be held at Emporia, Kansas on September 21st, 22nd & 23rd 2007. The event is just under six months away (177 days), and I thought it was important that we get the dates and location set so everyone can mark their calendars and make plans. Emporia, Kansas is 100 southwest of Kansas City on Interstate 35. The have a 5000 ft. north-south hard surface runway and 3900ft east-west grass runway. 100 LL and mogas are available on a 24 hour basis along with Jet A for those arriving in their King Air or Citation (Grin!!). There is an over abundance of room for our workshops, forums, camping and lots of room for the girls. You can find additional information on Emporia at: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KEMP Over the next 30+ days we'll be bringing more details on the overall event activities. One of the main changes this year so far is that Friday is going to be a full day. I hope to make this day a "hands-on" workshop/casual forum day and we'll have only one or two forums during the day on Saturday. The topics, workshops or forums will be driven by your suggestions and ideas. Also Thursday evening we have a BBQ at the airport for those early birds. So please mark those calendars and please plan to join for this very special event. We'll keep you informed in the discussion groups and the newsletters. More later, Spud Spornitz Olathe, KS (913) 764-5118 spudspornitz@...
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Re: 17th Annual Field of Dreams Tandem Wing Fly-in -- Emporia, KS Se...
JMasal@...
yyyyYYYYiippppppppppppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
j. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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Re: Ethanol and FG resin
Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
R thanks,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The links that are still alive refer to the separation of water in E10 when the fuel is left to stand for long periods. Does anyone have info to show that the ethanol attacks epoxy resin which I think is more important. (I could not find that in the archives) Thanks Peter _____ From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of oneskydog@... Sent: Thursday, 29 March 2007 1:37 PM To: Q-LIST@... Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Ethanol and FG resin
In a message dated 3/27/2007 6:36:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
rdixon@disl. <mailto:rdixon%40disl.org> org writes: Look at some of the issues Boating/Yachting people in the U.S. have been experiencing. I am sure there are other links also... _http://www.boatus. <http://www.boatus.http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.bohttp:/ww_> http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://ww_ (http://www.boatus. <http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2005/october/alert.asp> com/news/releases/2005/october/alert.asp) _http://www.boatus. <http://www.boatus.http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.bohttp:/www._> http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://www._ (http://www.boatus. <http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2006/october/ethanol.asp> com/news/releases/2006/october/ethanol.asp) R Peter Harris wrote:
Those articles are talking about polyester boat resin, not epoxy. Regards, Charlie Johnson a.k.a. One Sky Dog ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol. <http://www.aol.com.> com.
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system
Darrell Daniels <log@...>
I am still curious. Why could one not make a fuel dump , If you see you are going to land off field and you have no gas no fire. it could even be co2 charged I would think. Again I am certainly not the person to know a lot about this. Darrell Daniels
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@...> To: <Q-LIST@...> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:17 PM Subject: RE: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system Is the canopy Lexan or plexi?
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system
Allan Farr <afarr@...>
You have a ballistic 'chute installed in your Q? Could you please supply details and/or pics?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Allan F
----- Original Message -----
From: les shockley To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Friday, 30 March 2007 07:31 Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system I can tell you that I have beat the p___ out of lexan in testing for the race car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired arm. Onboard fire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a ballistic chute (rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole senario. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Patillo To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system Larry, Since Phil Lankford with a "K" is the only Q-Pilot I know of that survived a serious crash in which he and his wife had gas all over them and lived to talk about it, I thought he might be a good place to start. I've talked with Phil at some length and we both agree installing a crash hammer in the cockpit may create a false sense of security. Its like pissing in the wind, its kind of fun but doesn't get you anywhere. 1). You presume you will be conscious enough to use a hammer and 2). that a crash hammer would even work. Have you ever tried breaking out a rounded lexan canopy so that you know it works? Has anyone? I'm convinced this is an area that needs to be addressed NOW by some of our resident wizards. I love my airplane but I am very concerned about this negative scenerio. It can happen to anyone regardless of their abilities. I designed my canopy with a simple quick disconnect system that allows it to be jettisoned in a couple of seconds. This may save me in an inflight to ground situation like Phil's but does nothing for a landing that goes bad and inverts the plane quickly with me going unconscious. Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolled around and got his feet on the ground and pushed the plane up and off of him and Sherry. He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done much good. Luckily for him, the canopy already ripped off. In fact he was very happy the canopy was gone. I believe the problem is serious enough, it's time we collectively came up with a solution that would be best treated like an AD. There have simply been to many people burned up in these planes. Regards, Jim Patillo P.S. I don't express my views much anymore on this site but this one needs to be addressed and resolved! --- In Q-LIST@..., larry severson <larry2@...> wrote: > > > >if the occupants are trapped > > I have added a crash hammer to my Q bird minimum equipment list. It > is mounted high above/between the seats. > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@... > ---------------------------------------------------------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 4:51 PM
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Re: fire extinguishing system
Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
Larry that Navy tool could be the answer, used together with a well designed
auto fire extinguisher. Can you find a pic? Peter _____ From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of larry severson Sent: Thursday, 29 March 2007 1:02 PM To: Q-LIST@... Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system I designed my canopy with a simple quick disconnect system that allowsImportant, my basic Q2 has that. Unfortunately, my triQ does not. This may save me in anUnconscious is out of luck. Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolled aroundA hard surface crash breaks the canopy. A plowed field probably will not. He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done much good.A poor tool that will work some of the time is better than none. However, the canopy is 1/8inch lexan(?) that is fairly rigidly help in the canopy frame. A non mounted canopy clearly would not break with the small crash hammer that I have, but the rigid installation should. A sharp axe would be better. And the Navy issues heavy knife like devices for just such a purpose for canopies that are far stronger/thicker. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal. <mailto:larry2%40socal.rr.com> rr.com
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system
It's a Plexiglas type material. Cracks pretty easily, once you get it
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
started. I have been through a few of them. Definitely not a polycarbonate (lexan). Sam
On 3/29/07, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
--
Sam Hoskins www.MistakeProofing.Net 618-967-0016 ph. 312-212-4086 fax
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system
Larry Severson
At 01:17 PM 3/29/2007, you wrote:
Is the canopy Lexan or plexi?The replacement canopy that I bought cut easily with a metal cutting blade. No evidence of crack or break. I have cut lexan before. This is definitely not lexan. I was wrong when I mentioned it before. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@...
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{Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system
Pat,
I heard way back (1981-82), the canopy on a Q was made of Lexan. That's why Phil and I think it would was useless to bang on, like the previous e-mailer said "he beat the P--- out of it". If someone is talking to Scott Swing he would know for sure. Do we have anyone with a smashed Q that would be willing to donate one for the cause? Jim P. -- In Q-LIST@..., "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@...> wrote: exploded. Plexi on the other hand cuts like butter when put through a saw.for the Onboardrace car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired arm. chutefire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a ballistic senario.(rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system
Patrick Panzera <panzera@...>
Is the canopy Lexan or plexi?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Lexan is for the most part bulletproof. I tried to cut it on a radial-arm saw once and it literally exploded. Plexi on the other hand cuts like butter when put through a saw. Pat
I can tell you that I have beat the p___ out of lexan in testing for the
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Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system
les shockley <les@...>
I can tell you that I have beat the p___ out of lexan in testing for the race car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired arm. Onboard fire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a ballistic chute (rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole senario.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Patillo To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system Larry, Since Phil Lankford with a "K" is the only Q-Pilot I know of that survived a serious crash in which he and his wife had gas all over them and lived to talk about it, I thought he might be a good place to start. I've talked with Phil at some length and we both agree installing a crash hammer in the cockpit may create a false sense of security. Its like pissing in the wind, its kind of fun but doesn't get you anywhere. 1). You presume you will be conscious enough to use a hammer and 2). that a crash hammer would even work. Have you ever tried breaking out a rounded lexan canopy so that you know it works? Has anyone? I'm convinced this is an area that needs to be addressed NOW by some of our resident wizards. I love my airplane but I am very concerned about this negative scenerio. It can happen to anyone regardless of their abilities. I designed my canopy with a simple quick disconnect system that allows it to be jettisoned in a couple of seconds. This may save me in an inflight to ground situation like Phil's but does nothing for a landing that goes bad and inverts the plane quickly with me going unconscious. Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolled around and got his feet on the ground and pushed the plane up and off of him and Sherry. He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done much good. Luckily for him, the canopy already ripped off. In fact he was very happy the canopy was gone. I believe the problem is serious enough, it's time we collectively came up with a solution that would be best treated like an AD. There have simply been to many people burned up in these planes. Regards, Jim Patillo P.S. I don't express my views much anymore on this site but this one needs to be addressed and resolved! --- In Q-LIST@..., larry severson <larry2@...> wrote: > > > >if the occupants are trapped > > I have added a crash hammer to my Q bird minimum equipment list. It > is mounted high above/between the seats. > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 4:51 PM
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q2/200 on ebay
Doug Tenney
ebay id:170096307127
DUG N56DW www.cactusgrass.com/N56DW
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Re: Automatic Fire Extinguishers
Steve <sham@...>
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Harris To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:37 AM Subject: [Q-LIST] Automatic Fire Extinguishers I found this link by searching on automatic fire extinguishers. There will be others to compare so we could pick the best to suit the q. Peter http://www.safelincs.co.uk/section.php?xSec=77
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Re: Automatic Fire Extinguishers
Steve <sham@...>
Try this link for Pyron fire suppression.
http://www.pyrogen.com Steve Ham To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:37 AM Subject: [Q-LIST] Automatic Fire Extinguishers I found this link by searching on automatic fire extinguishers. There will be others to compare so we could pick the best to suit the q. Peter http://www.safelincs.co.uk/section.php?xSec=77
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Re: Automatic Fire Extinguishers
Steve <sham@...>
This might be an option. More effective that Halon,heat or electrical ignition.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Steve Ham
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Harris To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:37 AM Subject: [Q-LIST] Automatic Fire Extinguishers I found this link by searching on automatic fire extinguishers. There will be others to compare so we could pick the best to suit the q. Peter http://www.safelincs.co.uk/section.php?xSec=77
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Re: fire extinguishing system
Darrell Daniels <log@...>
Has anyone ever considered a fuel dump or is this expectable Darrell Daniels
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@...> To: <Q-LIST@...> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system It is worth thinking about a safety installation for the Q.
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