Date   

{Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system

Jim Patillo
 

Les a ballistic chute is good if you are in the air, doesn't do much
on the ground upside down.

Jim P.

--- In Q-LIST@..., "les shockley" <les@...> wrote:

I can tell you that I have beat the p___ out of lexan in testing
for the race car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired
arm. Onboard fire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a
ballistic chute (rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass
the hole senario.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Patillo
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 7:14 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system


Larry,

Since Phil Lankford with a "K" is the only Q-Pilot I know of that
survived a serious crash in which he and his wife had gas all
over them
and lived to talk about it, I thought he might be a good place to
start. I've talked with Phil at some length and we both agree
installing a crash hammer in the cockpit may create a false sense
of
security. Its like pissing in the wind, its kind of fun but
doesn't get
you anywhere.

1). You presume you will be conscious enough to use a hammer and
2).
that a crash hammer would even work. Have you ever tried breaking
out a
rounded lexan canopy so that you know it works? Has anyone? I'm
convinced this is an area that needs to be addressed NOW by some
of our
resident wizards. I love my airplane but I am very concerned
about this
negative scenerio. It can happen to anyone regardless of their
abilities.

I designed my canopy with a simple quick disconnect system that
allows
it to be jettisoned in a couple of seconds. This may save me in
an
inflight to ground situation like Phil's but does nothing for a
landing
that goes bad and inverts the plane quickly with me going
unconscious.
Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolled
around
and got his feet on the ground and pushed the plane up and off of
him
and Sherry. He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done much
good.
Luckily for him, the canopy already ripped off. In fact he was
very
happy the canopy was gone.

I believe the problem is serious enough, it's time we
collectively came
up with a solution that would be best treated like an AD.

There have simply been to many people burned up in these planes.

Regards,
Jim Patillo

P.S. I don't express my views much anymore on this site but this
one
needs to be addressed and resolved!


--- In Q-LIST@..., larry severson <larry2@> wrote:
>
>
> >if the occupants are trapped
>
> I have added a crash hammer to my Q bird minimum equipment
list. It
> is mounted high above/between the seats.
>
> Larry Severson
> Fountain Valley, CA 92708
> (714) 968-9852
> larry2@
>






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----------


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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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3/13/2007 4:51 PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


{Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system

Jim Patillo
 

Sam good to hear you're in the air again! I think I 'll go for a hot
lap this afternoon as well.

It's good to know the canopies are Plexiglas (I presume we all agree
on that, yes - no). When I cut my original canopy I didn't have much
of a problem.

Have you ever tried to get one "started" while sitting in the
cockpit? Has anyone? Maybe an agressive folding saw could work but
where do you cut? There's not much room between the arm rests and the
canopy. Is it realistic to presume one could get a saw tip through
the canopy if it wasn't cracked already. Remember a fire may be going
and you may be unconcious. It probably better than nothing but how
effective will that procedure be. Has anyone ever cut themselves out
of a Q? I curious because I have nothing in my cockpit to break or
cut with at this time. The only thing I have going is the quick
release system I mentioned.

Regards,
Jim P.





--- In Q-LIST@..., "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:

It's a Plexiglas type material. Cracks pretty easily, once you get
it
started. I have been through a few of them.

Definitely not a polycarbonate (lexan).

Sam

On 3/29/07, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Pat,

I heard way back (1981-82), the canopy on a Q was made of Lexan.
That's why Phil and I think it would was useless to bang on, like
the
previous e-mailer said "he beat the P--- out of it". If someone is
talking to Scott Swing he would know for sure.

Do we have anyone with a smashed Q that would be willing to donate
one for the cause?

Jim P.

-- In Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>, "Patrick
Panzera"
<panzera@> wrote:

Is the canopy Lexan or plexi?
Lexan is for the most part bulletproof.
I tried to cut it on a radial-arm saw once and it literally
exploded.
Plexi on the other hand cuts like butter when put through a saw.

Pat

I can tell you that I have beat the p___ out of lexan in
testing
for the
race car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired
arm.
Onboard
fire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a
ballistic
chute
(rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole
senario.



--
Sam Hoskins
www.MistakeProofing.Net
618-967-0016 ph.
312-212-4086 fax


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: {Disarmed} RE: Ethanol and FG resin

rdixon <rdixon@...>
 

Peter,
You are correct, those links did not specifically address the question of resin damage, however:


http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2005/october/alert.asp

This article specifically speaks of the fuel additive 'eating' the resin, but the large proportion of vessels are built with polyester resin as opposed to epoxy resin in the Q.

Then there are the epoxy tests:

http://www.boatus.com/Seaworthy/fueltest.asp
Here is a quote *

"Chemical Resistance Data From A Leading Epoxy Supplier.*
The test was made using the company's most resistant epoxy and exposing fiberglass lab samples to 10% ethanol gas and regular unleaded gas as well as diesel and aviation gas.

The results for the ethanol gas showed a 10% loss in hardness and a 10-15% loss of compressive strength over a 16 week period. It is likely that the loss of hardness and strength would continue to fall at a similar rate over time. The unleaded gas, diesel, and aviation gas tests showed virtually no change."

http://www.boatsurveyshawaii.com/page9.html

Robert



Peter Harris wrote:


R thanks,

The links that are still alive refer to the separation of water in E10 when
the fuel is left to stand for long periods.

Does anyone have info to show that the ethanol attacks epoxy resin which I
think is more important.

(I could not find that in the archives)

Thanks

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
oneskydog@... <mailto:oneskydog%40aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, 29 March 2007 1:37 PM
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Ethanol and FG resin

In a message dated 3/27/2007 6:36:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
rdixon@disl. <mailto:rdixon%40disl.org> org writes:

Look at some of the issues Boating/Yachting people in the U.S. have been
experiencing.
I am sure there are other links also...

_*MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.boatus." claiming to be* http://www.boatus.
<http://www.boatus.http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.bohttp:/ww_ <http://www.boatus.http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.bohttp:/ww_>>
http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://ww_ <http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://ww_>
(*MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.boatus." claiming to be* http://www.boatus.
<http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2005/october/alert.asp <http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2005/october/alert.asp>>
com/news/releases/2005/october/alert.asp)

_*MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.boatus." claiming to be* http://www.boatus.
<http://www.boatus.http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.bohttp:/www._ <http://www.boatus.http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.bohttp:/www._>>
http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://www._ <http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://www._>
(*MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.boatus." claiming to be* http://www.boatus.
<http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2006/october/ethanol.asp <http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2006/october/ethanol.asp>>
com/news/releases/2006/october/ethanol.asp)

R

Peter Harris wrote:

Hi again,

I have read on another list that ethanol dissolves FG resin. Does anyone
have good data on this ?

TIA

Peter
Those articles are talking about polyester boat resin, not epoxy.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson a.k.a. One Sky Dog

************************************** See what's free at *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.aol." claiming to be* http://www.aol.
<*MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.aol.com." claiming to be* http://www.aol.com. <http://www.aol.com.>> com.



--
Robert Dixon

The Estuarium at the Dauphin Island Sea Lab
101 Bienville Blvd.
Dauphin Island, AL. 36528
Ph:251-861-7550
Fx:251-861-7592
www.disl.org


Re: Ethanol and FG resin

drcastrojc <drcastrojc@...>
 

Alo Peter
I used to live in US but now I am living in Brazil.
We have a long way in this matter since we are using ethanol as fuel or adding it in the car fuel for more than 30 years.
I read something about a company " Ara Ashland"
http://www.araquimica.com.br
producing a special kind of Isofitalic resin and a composite able to stand exposition to alcool without problems.
I wold suggest a Google search for more data in the isoftalic resin.
I sent an email asking for more techincal data about this matter, and as soon as I get more information I will be glad to share it with the group.
The site is in Portuguese, unfortunatelly, but I can help you with translation if your web translator does not work properly.
Castro

R thanks,

The links that are still alive refer to the separation of water in E10 when
the fuel is left to stand for long periods.

Does anyone have info to show that the ethanol attacks epoxy resin which I
think is more important.

(I could not find that in the archives)

Thanks

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
oneskydog@...
Sent: Thursday, 29 March 2007 1:37 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Ethanol and FG resin




In a message dated 3/27/2007 6:36:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
rdixon@disl. org writes:

Look at some of the issues Boating/Yachting people in the U.S. have been
experiencing.
I am sure there are other links also...

_http://www.boatus.

http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://ww_
(http://www.boatus.

com/news/releases/2005/october/alert.asp)

_http://www.boatus.

http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://www._
(http://www.boatus.

com/news/releases/2006/october/ethanol.asp)

R

Peter Harris wrote:

Hi again,

I have read on another list that ethanol dissolves FG resin. Does anyone
have good data on this ?

TIA

Peter
Those articles are talking about polyester boat resin, not epoxy.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson a.k.a. One Sky Dog

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.
com.










17th Annual Field of Dreams Tandem Wing Fly-in -- Emporia, KS Sep 21-23 2007

Spud Spornitz <spudspornitz@...>
 

Hello Gang,

Spud Spornitz here in Olathe, Kansas.

It again is my great pleasure to be your host for this year's "17th
Annual Field of Dreams Tandem Wing Fly-in". This year the event will be
held at Emporia, Kansas on September 21st, 22nd & 23rd 2007.

The event is just under six months away (177 days), and I thought it was
important that we get the dates and location set so everyone can mark
their calendars and make plans.

Emporia, Kansas is 100 southwest of Kansas City on Interstate 35. The
have a 5000 ft. north-south hard surface runway and 3900ft east-west
grass runway. 100 LL and mogas are available on a 24 hour basis along
with Jet A for those arriving in their King Air or Citation (Grin!!).
There is an over abundance of room for our workshops, forums, camping
and lots of room for the girls. You can find additional information on
Emporia at: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KEMP

Over the next 30+ days we'll be bringing more details on the overall
event activities. One of the main changes this year so far is that
Friday is going to be a full day. I hope to make this day a "hands-on"
workshop/casual forum day and we'll have only one or two forums during
the day on Saturday. The topics, workshops or forums will be driven by
your suggestions and ideas. Also Thursday evening we have a BBQ at the
airport for those early birds.

So please mark those calendars and please plan to join for this very
special event.

We'll keep you informed in the discussion groups and the newsletters.

More later,

Spud Spornitz
Olathe, KS
(913) 764-5118
spudspornitz@...


Re: 17th Annual Field of Dreams Tandem Wing Fly-in -- Emporia, KS Se...

JMasal@...
 

yyyyYYYYiippppppppppppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

j.



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


Re: Ethanol and FG resin

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

R thanks,

The links that are still alive refer to the separation of water in E10 when
the fuel is left to stand for long periods.

Does anyone have info to show that the ethanol attacks epoxy resin which I
think is more important.

(I could not find that in the archives)

Thanks

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
oneskydog@...
Sent: Thursday, 29 March 2007 1:37 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Ethanol and FG resin

In a message dated 3/27/2007 6:36:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
rdixon@disl. <mailto:rdixon%40disl.org> org writes:

Look at some of the issues Boating/Yachting people in the U.S. have been
experiencing.
I am sure there are other links also...

_http://www.boatus.
<http://www.boatus.http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.bohttp:/ww_>
http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://ww_
(http://www.boatus.
<http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2005/october/alert.asp>
com/news/releases/2005/october/alert.asp)

_http://www.boatus.
<http://www.boatus.http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.bohttp:/www._>
http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://www._
(http://www.boatus.
<http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2006/october/ethanol.asp>
com/news/releases/2006/october/ethanol.asp)

R

Peter Harris wrote:

Hi again,

I have read on another list that ethanol dissolves FG resin. Does anyone
have good data on this ?

TIA

Peter
Those articles are talking about polyester boat resin, not epoxy.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson a.k.a. One Sky Dog

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.
<http://www.aol.com.> com.


Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system

Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

I am still curious. Why could one not make a fuel dump , If you see you are going to land off field and you have no gas no fire. it could even be co2 charged I would think. Again I am certainly not the person to know a lot about this. Darrell Daniels

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system


Is the canopy Lexan or plexi?
Lexan is for the most part bulletproof.
I tried to cut it on a radial-arm saw once and it literally exploded.
Plexi on the other hand cuts like butter when put through a saw.

Pat

I can tell you that I have beat the p___ out of lexan in testing for the
race car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired arm. Onboard
fire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a ballistic chute
(rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole senario.


Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system

Allan Farr <afarr@...>
 

You have a ballistic 'chute installed in your Q? Could you please supply details and/or pics?
Allan F

----- Original Message -----
From: les shockley
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, 30 March 2007 07:31
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system


I can tell you that I have beat the p___ out of lexan in testing for the race car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired arm. Onboard fire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a ballistic chute (rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole senario.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Patillo
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 7:14 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system

Larry,

Since Phil Lankford with a "K" is the only Q-Pilot I know of that
survived a serious crash in which he and his wife had gas all over them
and lived to talk about it, I thought he might be a good place to
start. I've talked with Phil at some length and we both agree
installing a crash hammer in the cockpit may create a false sense of
security. Its like pissing in the wind, its kind of fun but doesn't get
you anywhere.

1). You presume you will be conscious enough to use a hammer and 2).
that a crash hammer would even work. Have you ever tried breaking out a
rounded lexan canopy so that you know it works? Has anyone? I'm
convinced this is an area that needs to be addressed NOW by some of our
resident wizards. I love my airplane but I am very concerned about this
negative scenerio. It can happen to anyone regardless of their
abilities.

I designed my canopy with a simple quick disconnect system that allows
it to be jettisoned in a couple of seconds. This may save me in an
inflight to ground situation like Phil's but does nothing for a landing
that goes bad and inverts the plane quickly with me going unconscious.
Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolled around
and got his feet on the ground and pushed the plane up and off of him
and Sherry. He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done much good.
Luckily for him, the canopy already ripped off. In fact he was very
happy the canopy was gone.

I believe the problem is serious enough, it's time we collectively came
up with a solution that would be best treated like an AD.

There have simply been to many people burned up in these planes.

Regards,
Jim Patillo

P.S. I don't express my views much anymore on this site but this one
needs to be addressed and resolved!

--- In Q-LIST@..., larry severson <larry2@...> wrote:
>
>
> >if the occupants are trapped
>
> I have added a crash hammer to my Q bird minimum equipment list. It
> is mounted high above/between the seats.
>
> Larry Severson
> Fountain Valley, CA 92708
> (714) 968-9852
> larry2@...
>

----------------------------------------------------------

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 4:51 PM


Re: fire extinguishing system

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Larry that Navy tool could be the answer, used together with a well designed
auto fire extinguisher.

Can you find a pic?

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
larry severson
Sent: Thursday, 29 March 2007 1:02 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system




I designed my canopy with a simple quick disconnect system that allows
it to be jettisoned in a couple of seconds.
Important, my basic Q2 has that. Unfortunately, my triQ does not.

This may save me in an
inflight to ground situation like Phil's but does nothing for a landing
that goes bad and inverts the plane quickly with me going unconscious.
Unconscious is out of luck.

Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolled around
and got his feet on the ground and pushed the plane up and off of him
and Sherry.
A hard surface crash breaks the canopy. A plowed field probably will not.

He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done much good.
A poor tool that will work some of the time is better than none.
However, the canopy is 1/8inch lexan(?) that is fairly rigidly help
in the canopy frame. A non mounted canopy clearly would not break
with the small crash hammer that I have, but the rigid installation
should. A sharp axe would be better. And the Navy issues heavy knife
like devices for just such a purpose for canopies that are far
stronger/thicker.

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@socal. <mailto:larry2%40socal.rr.com> rr.com


Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system

Sam Hoskins
 

It's a Plexiglas type material. Cracks pretty easily, once you get it
started. I have been through a few of them.

Definitely not a polycarbonate (lexan).

Sam

On 3/29/07, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Pat,

I heard way back (1981-82), the canopy on a Q was made of Lexan.
That's why Phil and I think it would was useless to bang on, like the
previous e-mailer said "he beat the P--- out of it". If someone is
talking to Scott Swing he would know for sure.

Do we have anyone with a smashed Q that would be willing to donate
one for the cause?

Jim P.

-- In Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>, "Patrick Panzera"
<panzera@...> wrote:

Is the canopy Lexan or plexi?
Lexan is for the most part bulletproof.
I tried to cut it on a radial-arm saw once and it literally
exploded.
Plexi on the other hand cuts like butter when put through a saw.

Pat

I can tell you that I have beat the p___ out of lexan in testing
for the
race car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired arm.
Onboard
fire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a ballistic
chute
(rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole
senario.

--
Sam Hoskins
www.MistakeProofing.Net
618-967-0016 ph.
312-212-4086 fax


Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system

Larry Severson
 

At 01:17 PM 3/29/2007, you wrote:

Is the canopy Lexan or plexi?
Lexan is for the most part bulletproof.
I tried to cut it on a radial-arm saw once and it literally exploded.
Plexi on the other hand cuts like butter when put through a saw.
The replacement canopy that I bought cut easily with a metal cutting blade. No evidence of crack or break. I have cut lexan before. This is definitely not lexan. I was wrong when I mentioned it before.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


{Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system

Jim Patillo
 

Pat,

I heard way back (1981-82), the canopy on a Q was made of Lexan.
That's why Phil and I think it would was useless to bang on, like the
previous e-mailer said "he beat the P--- out of it". If someone is
talking to Scott Swing he would know for sure.

Do we have anyone with a smashed Q that would be willing to donate
one for the cause?

Jim P.




-- In Q-LIST@..., "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@...> wrote:

Is the canopy Lexan or plexi?
Lexan is for the most part bulletproof.
I tried to cut it on a radial-arm saw once and it literally
exploded.
Plexi on the other hand cuts like butter when put through a saw.

Pat

I can tell you that I have beat the p___ out of lexan in testing
for the
race car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired arm.
Onboard
fire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a ballistic
chute
(rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole
senario.


Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system

Patrick Panzera <panzera@...>
 

Is the canopy Lexan or plexi?
Lexan is for the most part bulletproof.
I tried to cut it on a radial-arm saw once and it literally exploded.
Plexi on the other hand cuts like butter when put through a saw.

Pat

I can tell you that I have beat the p___ out of lexan in testing for the
race car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired arm. Onboard
fire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a ballistic chute
(rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole senario.


Re: {Disarmed} Re: fire extinguishing system

les shockley <les@...>
 

I can tell you that I have beat the p___ out of lexan in testing for the race car comunity and you won't do anything bet get a tired arm. Onboard fire systems are the only answer. I choose to carry a ballistic chute (rated for 1500 pounds at a cost of 3500) and bypass the hole senario.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Patillo
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 7:14 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system


Larry,

Since Phil Lankford with a "K" is the only Q-Pilot I know of that
survived a serious crash in which he and his wife had gas all over them
and lived to talk about it, I thought he might be a good place to
start. I've talked with Phil at some length and we both agree
installing a crash hammer in the cockpit may create a false sense of
security. Its like pissing in the wind, its kind of fun but doesn't get
you anywhere.

1). You presume you will be conscious enough to use a hammer and 2).
that a crash hammer would even work. Have you ever tried breaking out a
rounded lexan canopy so that you know it works? Has anyone? I'm
convinced this is an area that needs to be addressed NOW by some of our
resident wizards. I love my airplane but I am very concerned about this
negative scenerio. It can happen to anyone regardless of their
abilities.

I designed my canopy with a simple quick disconnect system that allows
it to be jettisoned in a couple of seconds. This may save me in an
inflight to ground situation like Phil's but does nothing for a landing
that goes bad and inverts the plane quickly with me going unconscious.
Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolled around
and got his feet on the ground and pushed the plane up and off of him
and Sherry. He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done much good.
Luckily for him, the canopy already ripped off. In fact he was very
happy the canopy was gone.

I believe the problem is serious enough, it's time we collectively came
up with a solution that would be best treated like an AD.

There have simply been to many people burned up in these planes.

Regards,
Jim Patillo

P.S. I don't express my views much anymore on this site but this one
needs to be addressed and resolved!


--- In Q-LIST@..., larry severson <larry2@...> wrote:
>
>
> >if the occupants are trapped
>
> I have added a crash hammer to my Q bird minimum equipment list. It
> is mounted high above/between the seats.
>
> Larry Severson
> Fountain Valley, CA 92708
> (714) 968-9852
> larry2@...
>






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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 4:51 PM


q2/200 on ebay

Doug Tenney
 

ebay id:170096307127

DUG
N56DW
www.cactusgrass.com/N56DW


Re: Automatic Fire Extinguishers

Steve <sham@...>
 

He is a better link for Pyron.


http://www.k5solutions.net/PDF/FOGI_Pyrogen.pdf



Steve Ham

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Harris
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:37 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Automatic Fire Extinguishers



I found this link by searching on automatic fire extinguishers. There will
be others to compare so we could pick the best to suit the q.
Peter

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/section.php?xSec=77


Re: Automatic Fire Extinguishers

Steve <sham@...>
 

Try this link for Pyron fire suppression.

http://www.pyrogen.com



Steve Ham









To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:37 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Automatic Fire Extinguishers



I found this link by searching on automatic fire extinguishers. There will
be others to compare so we could pick the best to suit the q.
Peter

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/section.php?xSec=77


Re: Automatic Fire Extinguishers

Steve <sham@...>
 

This might be an option. More effective that Halon,heat or electrical ignition.

Steve Ham

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Harris
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:37 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Automatic Fire Extinguishers



I found this link by searching on automatic fire extinguishers. There will
be others to compare so we could pick the best to suit the q.
Peter

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/section.php?xSec=77


Re: fire extinguishing system

Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

Has anyone ever considered a fuel dump or is this expectable Darrell Daniels

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:06 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system


It is worth thinking about a safety installation for the Q.

If the crash remains right way up the belly tank is the most likely to be
split and in my case the fuel was spread over 20Yd and luckily did not
light up. I have an extinguisher in the cockpit now.

But the inverted crash needs something special. I was thinking maybe the
canopy should be hinged from the rear or otherwise a pop up emergency
release in the front and air pressure would blow it off if the rear securing
clips were designed right. It could then become part of the emergency list
to pop the canopy with a red handle.

Then you would lose any protection from the canopy but could get out.

Fuel running down from the inverted tanks? I suppose the source of ignition
would be somewhere in the engine compartment.

I would like to get some advice on what type of automatic extinguisher would
be safe to use in the cockpit, Halon, Co2, foam or powder and what is best
for the engine compartment?

The automatic extinguishers mostly seem to be set off by high temperature
but some can be triggered by hand and some can be remote located with a
fixed hose to the expected site.

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
terrywadams@...
Sent: Thursday, 29 March 2007 3:18 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system



Thankfully my plane has a roll bar. Thankfully I had a hatchet. I went
inverted on landing once, popped the seat belt, and then broke out the
cracked canopy which allowed me to crawl out. Though the airport crash truck
arrived, if a fire had started it would have been too late to save me. JM2C

Terry

----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system

On my 15th flight I went inverted on the ground. The canopy smashed and I
had grass in my face. Some kind souls ran out and lifted the plane off of
me.

IMHO a hammer would do no good. I do carry a very aggressive backpacker's
saw, but I'm sure it would take 20 minutes or so to hack any kind of opening
that might do any good but I figure it's better than nothing. You would
have to go sideways and that won't be easy.

Sam

On 3/28/07, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineeri
<mailto:logistics_engineering%40msn.com> ng@...> wrote:

Larry,

Since Phil Lankford with a "K" is the only Q-Pilot I know of that
survived a serious crash in which he and his wife had gas all over them
and lived to talk about it, I thought he might be a good place to
start. I've talked with Phil at some length and we both agree
installing a crash hammer in the cockpit may create a false sense of
security. Its like pissing in the wind, its kind of fun but doesn't get
you anywhere.

1). You presume you will be conscious enough to use a hammer and 2).
that a crash hammer would even work. Have you ever tried breaking out a
rounded lexan canopy so that you know it works? Has anyone? I'm
convinced this is an area that needs to be addressed NOW by some of our
resident wizards. I love my airplane but I am very concerned about this
negative scenerio. It can happen to anyone regardless of their
abilities.

I designed my canopy with a simple quick disconnect system that allows
it to be jettisoned in a couple of seconds. This may save me in an
inflight to ground situation like Phil's but does nothing for a landing
that goes bad and inverts the plane quickly with me going unconscious.
Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolled around
and got his feet on the ground and pushed the plane up and off of him
and Sherry. He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done much good.
Luckily for him, the canopy already ripped off. In fact he was very
happy the canopy was gone.

I believe the problem is serious enough, it's time we collectively came
up with a solution that would be best treated like an AD.

There have simply been to many people burned up in these planes.

Regards,
Jim Patillo

P.S. I don't express my views much anymore on this site but this one
needs to be addressed and resolved!


--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
<Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>, larry severson
<larry2@...> wrote:


if the occupants are trapped
I have added a crash hammer to my Q bird minimum equipment list. It
is mounted high above/between the seats.

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...

--
Sam Hoskins
www.MistakeProofing.Net
618-967-0016 ph.
312-212-4086 fax


----------------------------------------------------------

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007
4:51 PM









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