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Re: fire extinguishing system
Deems Herring
Download AC 20-42C from the FAA web site. it has information about fire extinguishers including how to calculate the amount of Halon for a confined space. The amount needed for fire suppression is less than the amount that will cause respratory problems. I think Halon is by far the best option but needs proper engineering for installation.
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Deems Herring, Baudette, MN mailto: dsleepy47@...
----- Original Message ----
From: "JMasal@..." <JMasal@...> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:02:51 AM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system Error: the server didn't return any data for the contents of this message ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
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Re: fire extinguishing system
Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
It is worth thinking about a safety installation for the Q.
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If the crash remains right way up the belly tank is the most likely to be split and in my case the fuel was spread over 20Yd and luckily did not light up. I have an extinguisher in the cockpit now. But the inverted crash needs something special. I was thinking maybe the canopy should be hinged from the rear or otherwise a pop up emergency release in the front and air pressure would blow it off if the rear securing clips were designed right. It could then become part of the emergency list to pop the canopy with a red handle. Then you would lose any protection from the canopy but could get out. Fuel running down from the inverted tanks? I suppose the source of ignition would be somewhere in the engine compartment. I would like to get some advice on what type of automatic extinguisher would be safe to use in the cockpit, Halon, Co2, foam or powder and what is best for the engine compartment? The automatic extinguishers mostly seem to be set off by high temperature but some can be triggered by hand and some can be remote located with a fixed hose to the expected site. Peter _____ From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of terrywadams@... Sent: Thursday, 29 March 2007 3:18 PM To: Q-LIST@... Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system Thankfully my plane has a roll bar. Thankfully I had a hatchet. I went inverted on landing once, popped the seat belt, and then broke out the cracked canopy which allowed me to crawl out. Though the airport crash truck arrived, if a fire had started it would have been too late to save me. JM2C Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system On my 15th flight I went inverted on the ground. The canopy smashed and I had grass in my face. Some kind souls ran out and lifted the plane off of me. IMHO a hammer would do no good. I do carry a very aggressive backpacker's saw, but I'm sure it would take 20 minutes or so to hack any kind of opening that might do any good but I figure it's better than nothing. You would have to go sideways and that won't be easy. Sam On 3/28/07, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineeri <mailto:logistics_engineering%40msn.com> ng@...> wrote: <Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>, larry severson <larry2@...> wrote:--if the occupants are trappedI have added a crash hammer to my Q bird minimum equipment list. It Sam Hoskins www.MistakeProofing.Net 618-967-0016 ph. 312-212-4086 fax ---------------------------------------------------------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 4:51 PM
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Re: Firetrace - Automobile / Car Fire Suppression Systems/exhaust system as firesuppresion/ hood quick release
Isaksson Roger <scratchdeeper@...>
Read in a history book, about a Russian fighterplane, the pilots loved the fire supression system, and saved quite a few.
The engine exhaust was routed into the aircraft, and as it is depleted of oxygen, it supressed most fires, the pilot went on oxygen mask while this happened. Now, the Q is a composite, and dont have all the cavities as an aluminun aircraft has, also the fire danger seems to be, when it has crashed, turning the plane up side down, spilling the fuel, this might probably not do any good with this system, but it would do good, in an engine fire while in flight. If the fresh air intake was closed off, and a valve opened up the exaust fumes into the airplane engine compartment, the compartment would quickly run out of oxygen, and could not sustain a flame. At least another possibility to look into. Filling up the airspace in the cockpit with fire retardant, powder, foam or gas, while sitting trapped in the cockpit most probably will disable the pilot more than help him. He is probably not thinking in rational terms on how to combat fire at that time, but are desperately trying one thing only, GET OUT. In times of need, a person is very strong, and as I have read here, the persons able to release the canopy have been able to lift the airplane off themselves. I think the main solution would be to be able to release the hood quickly and very simple, from both the hinge and latch side with very little effort. Perhaps something that is spring loaded, or perhaps a preloaded CO2 catridge so the release is very pronounced and definite. Something along that line will probably substitute very well for stuff we cant buy, explosive bolts. Perhaps one trick that is used in the movie industry to flip cars can be used. They can have installed in one corner of the car, a pipe with a piece of wood in it, when they turn, they let the piece of wood go, propelled with pressurized air, the log goes down, and pushes the car over end. Imagine a pipe, with a cylinder in it, mounted somewhere in the back of the cockpit, pointing straight up, when inverted, you can push the "red button" and it would with a gas cartridge activate the cylinder. It would shoot out, lifting up the aircraft, giving the hood clearance to fall down and give the pilot space to get out. Alternatively, the piston could snap out with such a force that it will flip the whole aircraft back on its feet again. One of the longest leverages you have, would be in the tail section, a rocket, of decent size, could be drilled in, and preinstalled in the fin, aimed to throw it's jet straight up,, when activated, it can flip the whole aircraft over with comparable little force. I'm just free wheeling now, but there are ideas out there, some are better, some worse, but all in all, the canopy quick release seems to be one of the better ones. Roger Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...> wrote: Here is another one sold for the car engine compartment. Ideally we get someone to look at this stuff and pick the most suited then maybe we could bulk order for discount. Peter http://www.firetrace.com/en/applications/automobiles.html --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
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Re: fire extinguishing system
Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
I am carrying a double edged folding saw to cut the glass panel under the
canopy . I think it would be hard to cut the canopy. Peter _____ From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of larry severson Sent: Thursday, 29 March 2007 5:19 AM To: Q-LIST@... Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] fire extinguishing system if the occupants are trappedI have added a crash hammer to my Q bird minimum equipment list. It is mounted high above/between the seats. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal. <mailto:larry2%40socal.rr.com> rr.com
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Re: fire extinguishing system
Terry Adams
Thankfully my plane has a roll bar. Thankfully I had a hatchet. I went inverted on landing once, popped the seat belt, and then broke out the cracked canopy which allowed me to crawl out. Though the airport crash truck arrived, if a fire had started it would have been too late to save me. JM2C
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Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: fire extinguishing system On my 15th flight I went inverted on the ground. The canopy smashed and I had grass in my face. Some kind souls ran out and lifted the plane off of me. IMHO a hammer would do no good. I do carry a very aggressive backpacker's saw, but I'm sure it would take 20 minutes or so to hack any kind of opening that might do any good but I figure it's better than nothing. You would have to go sideways and that won't be easy. Sam On 3/28/07, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote: > > Larry, > > Since Phil Lankford with a "K" is the only Q-Pilot I know of that > survived a serious crash in which he and his wife had gas all over them > and lived to talk about it, I thought he might be a good place to > start. I've talked with Phil at some length and we both agree > installing a crash hammer in the cockpit may create a false sense of > security. Its like pissing in the wind, its kind of fun but doesn't get > you anywhere. > > 1). You presume you will be conscious enough to use a hammer and 2). > that a crash hammer would even work. Have you ever tried breaking out a > rounded lexan canopy so that you know it works? Has anyone? I'm > convinced this is an area that needs to be addressed NOW by some of our > resident wizards. I love my airplane but I am very concerned about this > negative scenerio. It can happen to anyone regardless of their > abilities. > > I designed my canopy with a simple quick disconnect system that allows > it to be jettisoned in a couple of seconds. This may save me in an > inflight to ground situation like Phil's but does nothing for a landing > that goes bad and inverts the plane quickly with me going unconscious. > Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolled around > and got his feet on the ground and pushed the plane up and off of him > and Sherry. He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done much good. > Luckily for him, the canopy already ripped off. In fact he was very > happy the canopy was gone. > > I believe the problem is serious enough, it's time we collectively came > up with a solution that would be best treated like an AD. > > There have simply been to many people burned up in these planes. > > Regards, > Jim Patillo > > P.S. I don't express my views much anymore on this site but this one > needs to be addressed and resolved! > > > --- In Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>, larry severson > <larry2@...> wrote: > > > > > > >if the occupants are trapped > > > > I have added a crash hammer to my Q bird minimum equipment list. It > > is mounted high above/between the seats. > > > > Larry Severson > > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > > (714) 968-9852 > > larry2@... > > > > > -- Sam Hoskins www.MistakeProofing.Net 618-967-0016 ph. 312-212-4086 fax ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 4:51 PM
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Firetrace - Automobile / Car Fire Suppression Systems
Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
Here is another one sold for the car engine compartment.
Ideally we get someone to look at this stuff and pick the most suited then maybe we could bulk order for discount. Peter http://www.firetrace.com/en/applications/automobiles.html
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Automatic Fire Extinguishers
Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
I found this link by searching on automatic fire extinguishers. There will
be others to compare so we could pick the best to suit the q. Peter http://www.safelincs.co.uk/section.php?xSec=77
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Re: Q200 Cowling built for sale
Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
That would be the cowlings produced by Earnest Martin. He is on this list and should respond in time.
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Doug "Hawkeye" Humble A Sign Above www.asignabove.net Omaha NE N25974
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:11 PM Subject: [Q-LIST] Q200 Cowling built for sale Recenting I saw on someones website a cowling for a Q200 with round inlets and the split line altertered to match the water line. I believe he offered to possibly build some more from his mold. I can no longer find the site. can anyone send me the link? Kevin, still building
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Re: fire extinguishing system
Larry Severson
I designed my canopy with a simple quick disconnect system that allowsImportant, my basic Q2 has that. Unfortunately, my triQ does not. This may save me in anUnconscious is out of luck. Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolled aroundA hard surface crash breaks the canopy. A plowed field probably will not. He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done much good.A poor tool that will work some of the time is better than none. However, the canopy is 1/8inch lexan(?) that is fairly rigidly help in the canopy frame. A non mounted canopy clearly would not break with the small crash hammer that I have, but the rigid installation should. A sharp axe would be better. And the Navy issues heavy knife like devices for just such a purpose for canopies that are far stronger/thicker. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@...
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Re: fire extinguishing system
Mike Perry <dmperry1012@...>
Just a note of caution before anyone starts experimenting:
Mark Waddelow died experimenting with Halon. (Pretty sure that's documented in an old Q-Talk but couldn't locate it tonite.) Halon is not particularly dangerous, but it displaces oxygen in a closed space. As Mike Dwyer said: "One problem I see with a Halon type extinguisher is that you may suffocate." Be careful. Mike Perry
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Re: Q200 Cowling built for sale
Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
Kevin,
I have posted some pictures of my cowling. See http://www.corvairq.info/Canard%20fairing.htm . However, I have not offered to build copies and I do not have a mold. The nose bowl is available from William Wynn, The Corvair Authority. Here is a link: www.flycorvair.com/nosebowl.html . Hope this helps. Joseph Kevin <kjsheely1@...> wrote: Recenting I saw on someones website a cowling for a Q200 with round inlets and the split line altertered to match the water line. I believe he offered to possibly build some more from his mold. I can no longer find the site. can anyone send me the link? Kevin, still building
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Q200 Cowling built for sale
Kevin Sheeley
Recenting I saw on someones website a cowling for a Q200 with round
inlets and the split line altertered to match the water line. I believe he offered to possibly build some more from his mold. I can no longer find the site. can anyone send me the link? Kevin, still building
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Re: Houston we have a problem!
Patrick Panzera <panzera@...>
It's Yahoo.
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All the groups I belong to are doing it. Pat
Something is loading up the Q and Dragonfly sites with repeat messages.
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Re: pinout
Steve <sham@...>
Thanks Earnest
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Steve Ham
----- Original Message -----
From: MartinErni@... To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: pinout Steve, After looks at the wiring diagram I realized it would be very hard to convey all the info in any way other than the diagram. I made a copy and took it to the post office so maybe you will have it by this w/e. Keep your fingers crossed. Earnest ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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Houston we have a problem!
Something is loading up the Q and Dragonfly sites with repeat messages.
Help Pat!
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Re: fire extinguishing system
JMasal@...
I reported my Q1 crash in QTALK. Gas all over my legs and belted too tight
to reach the switches. I saw 2 bubble canopy crashes at Oshkosh which both lit up. If they light up you can only say your last prayers. But if it doesn't light up and you have crashed outside the confines of civilization you better have something to cut your way out as you should have plenty of time to do so. j ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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Re: fire extinguishing system
On my 15th flight I went inverted on the ground. The canopy smashed and I
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had grass in my face. Some kind souls ran out and lifted the plane off of me. IMHO a hammer would do no good. I do carry a very aggressive backpacker's saw, but I'm sure it would take 20 minutes or so to hack any kind of opening that might do any good but I figure it's better than nothing. You would have to go sideways and that won't be easy. Sam
On 3/28/07, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
--
Sam Hoskins www.MistakeProofing.Net 618-967-0016 ph. 312-212-4086 fax
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Re: fire extinguishing system
Larry,
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Since Phil Lankford with a "K" is the only Q-Pilot I know of that survived a serious crash in which he and his wife had gas all over them and lived to talk about it, I thought he might be a good place to start. I've talked with Phil at some length and we both agree installing a crash hammer in the cockpit may create a false sense of security. Its like pissing in the wind, its kind of fun but doesn't get you anywhere. 1). You presume you will be conscious enough to use a hammer and 2). that a crash hammer would even work. Have you ever tried breaking out a rounded lexan canopy so that you know it works? Has anyone? I'm convinced this is an area that needs to be addressed NOW by some of our resident wizards. I love my airplane but I am very concerned about this negative scenerio. It can happen to anyone regardless of their abilities. I designed my canopy with a simple quick disconnect system that allows it to be jettisoned in a couple of seconds. This may save me in an inflight to ground situation like Phil's but does nothing for a landing that goes bad and inverts the plane quickly with me going unconscious. Phil said when he was upside down, he unlatched his belt, rolled around and got his feet on the ground and pushed the plane up and off of him and Sherry. He didn't feel a crash hammer would have done much good. Luckily for him, the canopy already ripped off. In fact he was very happy the canopy was gone. I believe the problem is serious enough, it's time we collectively came up with a solution that would be best treated like an AD. There have simply been to many people burned up in these planes. Regards, Jim Patillo P.S. I don't express my views much anymore on this site but this one needs to be addressed and resolved!
--- In Q-LIST@..., larry severson <larry2@...> wrote:
if the occupants are trappedI have added a crash hammer to my Q bird minimum equipment list. It
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Re: {Disarmed} Ethanol and FG resin
In a message dated 3/27/2007 6:36:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
rdixon@... writes: Look at some of the issues Boating/Yachting people in the U.S. have been experiencing. I am sure there are other links also... _http://www.boatus.http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://ww_ (http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2005/october/alert.asp) _http://www.boatus.http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.bohttp://www._ (http://www.boatus.com/news/releases/2006/october/ethanol.asp) R Peter Harris wrote:
Those articles are talking about polyester boat resin, not epoxy. Regards, Charlie Johnson a.k.a. One Sky Dog ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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Re: fire extinguishing system
James Doyle <jdoyle1941@...>
I always kept a small folding crash axe strapped to my shoulder harness. Thank goodness I never had need for it.
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Jim Doyle
----- Original Message -----
From: larry severson To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] fire extinguishing system >if the occupants are trapped I have added a crash hammer to my Q bird minimum equipment list. It is mounted high above/between the seats. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@...
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