Joseph,

The reason that I recommend the ground divergence practice before finally
flying the Q dragger is similar to the practice we get in flight training
when we need to learn how to recover from the stall and unusual flight
attitudes. Then if an incident happens we are prepared and know exactly what
to do without delay or freaking out.

There have been many ground handling issues which can be avoided with
correct practice.

The initial ground runs may give a false sense of security unless finally
taken to the divergence limits .While accelerating the Q dragger is stable
and there should be no problems at all, but when decelerating it is unstable
like any other tail dragger as CG is behind the main gear and any divergence
is likely to continue as the inertia force works to maintain the deflection.

The use of brakes at this time will set up a couple and accelerate the
divergence and rudder is less effective at this speed, so we need a good
load on the tail wheel and I recommend a pneumatic tail wheel for best grip.
It is also very springy.

Joseph you are going to enjoy this.

Cheers

Peter





_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Wednesday, 11 April 2007 6:26 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test



Peter,

I have been thinking about this. I prefer to practice learning how to do the
landing right. I realize the Q is springy with the wheels on the end of the
canard and that PIO'S must be avoided with elevator control, power control
and visual references. Later in the testing period or even later, I will
experiment with divergence issues.

Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
Joseph if you have a Q dragger, before you fly, spend several sessions fast
taxi and when confident deliberately upset and practice recovery. Jerking
the stick back and forth may set up an oscillation which happens very
occasionally on landing. The fix for me is to hold the stick back hard and
that damps the oscillation. Try taking your eyes off the end of the runway
and I will bet you lose control due to PIO. Be sure to watch the end of the
runway no matter what.

I would recommend also try a ground loop at say 20KTS. There is no recovery
and normally no damage except to the ego but inspect for sure.

(If a Tri Q the above does not apply.)

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2007 8:59 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test

OOPs! I got that just opposit. Thanks for pointing that out.

Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
Joseph note that I am saying that my Q rotates better at take off and flares
better landing and steers better on roll out with the aelerons up not down.

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2007 7:16 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test

No, I am not yet flying. Hopefully in June. Currently painting the bottom
surfaces.
I have heard pitchbuck speeds range from 64-80 mph (your 55 kts is equal to
64 mph). The variations are functions of gross wt. and cg position. Several
Q dirvers agree with your assessment that the Q lands better with reflexor
down. Thanks for your description of landing configuration and performance.
Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
Joseph,

Pitch buck for my Q happens at 55 KTS. I have no belly board, there do seem
to be some various opinions about the merit of a belly board. I did not like
the idea of a board opening forward. In any case air speed is going to be
limited by the stall speed, but the board could reduce the ground run.I am
using a small amount of power on final approach. On a few occasions I have
used more power and flown on back of the curve with the nose higher but
visibility is less.The final flare is a mush I suppose, but it happens
quickly. I never could understand all the talk about ground handling
problems until I tried landing with the aelerons neutral. Now with reflex
ground handling is good again.

Are you flying Joseph.?

(Sometimes I get delays through Yahoo also)

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2007 2:57 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test

Ok, you seemed to get through. I have tried to respond to you post on three
occasions. It does not show up in my Inbox. Here is my earlier response:

Very interesting! So, on final your configuration is reflexor up, 70 kts
over the fence. Are you using a bellyboard? Are you using power to fly onto
the runway (power controls altitude at MCA)? At what airspeed does the pitch
buck occur in this configuration? Are you "mushing" without the pitch buck?

Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
What troubles Joseph ?

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2007 2:38 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Test

Is anyone having trouble with replies on the Q-list?

Joseph

Peter,

I have been thinking about this. I prefer to practice learning how to do the landing right. I realize the Q is springy with the wheels on the end of the canard and that PIO'S must be avoided with elevator control, power control and visual references. Later in the testing period or even later, I will experiment with divergence issues.

Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...> wrote:
Joseph if you have a Q dragger, before you fly, spend several sessions fast
taxi and when confident deliberately upset and practice recovery. Jerking
the stick back and forth may set up an oscillation which happens very
occasionally on landing. The fix for me is to hold the stick back hard and
that damps the oscillation. Try taking your eyes off the end of the runway
and I will bet you lose control due to PIO. Be sure to watch the end of the
runway no matter what.

I would recommend also try a ground loop at say 20KTS. There is no recovery
and normally no damage except to the ego but inspect for sure.

(If a Tri Q the above does not apply.)

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2007 8:59 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test

OOPs! I got that just opposit. Thanks for pointing that out.

Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
Joseph note that I am saying that my Q rotates better at take off and flares
better landing and steers better on roll out with the aelerons up not down.

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2007 7:16 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test

No, I am not yet flying. Hopefully in June. Currently painting the bottom
surfaces.
I have heard pitchbuck speeds range from 64-80 mph (your 55 kts is equal to
64 mph). The variations are functions of gross wt. and cg position. Several
Q dirvers agree with your assessment that the Q lands better with reflexor
down. Thanks for your description of landing configuration and performance.
Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
Joseph,

Pitch buck for my Q happens at 55 KTS. I have no belly board, there do seem
to be some various opinions about the merit of a belly board. I did not like
the idea of a board opening forward. In any case air speed is going to be
limited by the stall speed, but the board could reduce the ground run.I am
using a small amount of power on final approach. On a few occasions I have
used more power and flown on back of the curve with the nose higher but
visibility is less.The final flare is a mush I suppose, but it happens
quickly. I never could understand all the talk about ground handling
problems until I tried landing with the aelerons neutral. Now with reflex
ground handling is good again.

Are you flying Joseph.?

(Sometimes I get delays through Yahoo also)

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2007 2:57 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test

Ok, you seemed to get through. I have tried to respond to you post on three
occasions. It does not show up in my Inbox. Here is my earlier response:

Very interesting! So, on final your configuration is reflexor up, 70 kts
over the fence. Are you using a bellyboard? Are you using power to fly onto
the runway (power controls altitude at MCA)? At what airspeed does the pitch
buck occur in this configuration? Are you "mushing" without the pitch buck?

Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
What troubles Joseph ?

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2007 2:38 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Test

Is anyone having trouble with replies on the Q-list?

Joseph

I have right at 1000 hrs on the original nose gear and have had no problems. I position my reflesor as to minimize weight on nose gear for take off and landing. I can hold the nose off with no problem. GregZ 89RZ

Thanks for the info. I am running the new nose gear.
Bob Clark

MartinErni@... wrote:
Bob,
I normally lift off at about 80 MPH. The bouncing you describe sounds
like you have the old nose gear which isn't nearly strong enough for an O200.
The stronger gear will eliminate this. The bouncing will eventually cause
metal fatigue and nose gear failure. The old gear will not take much in the way
of a hard landing either. If I am guessing right you are risking a lot on a
known problem. Sorry if I am wrong.
Earnest

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.








---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Just wanting to know the liftoff speed of you TRI-Q 200 pilots.
My plane is now at the airport and have started taxi testing. All is going good to this point.
Have had it upto 70 MPH with an UNCALIBRATED airspeed indicator, at which point the nose wheel begins to get light and start bouncing up and down. Presumed pitch bucking. Tracks true with good rudder control.
Bob Clark
Ankeny Iowa



---------------------------------
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Bob,
I normally lift off at about 80 MPH. The bouncing you describe sounds
like you have the old nose gear which isn't nearly strong enough for an O200.
The stronger gear will eliminate this. The bouncing will eventually cause
metal fatigue and nose gear failure. The old gear will not take much in the way
of a hard landing either. If I am guessing right you are risking a lot on a
known problem. Sorry if I am wrong.
Earnest



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Thanks Mike. I modified my trim to left hand operation with a throttle cable
control and probably not getting as much spring as normal but the force
required was at leat 2 or 3 lbs greater than the spring.

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Mike Dwyer
Sent: Tuesday, 10 April 2007 8:05 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Spring Flyin



Hi Peter,
I kind giggled cause holding force on the stick of any kind for 4 hours
is not going to happen. In cruise with full up ailerons I can easily
trim out the stick forces which in this case is forward on the elevator,
maybe 5 lbs?
Mike Q200 N3QP

Peter Harris wrote:

Mike,

With full up aelerons have you got enough trim springs to trim for level
flight or do you need to hold the nose down with the stick?

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com

[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of

Mike Dwyer
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2007 8:25 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Spring Flyin



Best speed on my plane is with full (QCA limits) up ailerons. I
reported my max speed a while ago complete with baro and temps. It's in
the archive somewhere, probably under flight test... Say 200+ mph.
Mike Q200 N3QP

Joseph M Snow wrote:

Mike,

I had not thought about the effect on the canard when moving the reflexor

up on the main wing. Decreasing the canard's angle of attack would

decrease

the drag there also. Does the 4 knot increase occur with full reflexor up?
What is your max cruise airspeed with reflexor full up?

Thanks,

Joseph






w

Mike Dwyer <mdwyer@tampabay. <mailto:mdwyer%40tampabay.rr.com> rr.com>

wrote:

Hey Joe,
One thing you wrote lead me to believe you have a slight
misunderstanding of the Reflexer.
This Q airplane is being lifted by two wings. If you put the ailerons
up, thus reducing lift on the rear wing then you have to go forward on
the stick thus reducing lift on the front wing (otherwise you'd be in a
fast climb). So in effect you are reducing the drag on both wings by
reflexing the rear ailerons up. I get 4mph for free by reflexing the
ailerons up in cruise.
Mike Q200 N3QP

Joseph M Snow wrote:

Hi Jim,

Good to hear from you. Thanks for the invitation of a ride in your Q200

at Jean, Nv. Does this mean you have dual controlls, i.e. dual rudder
pedals, brakes, throttle? I remember seeing the center stick when I was at
Livermore.

Interesting description of reflexor use. Does this mean you set the

reflexor at neutral for takeoff and landing? Did you make some kind of
modification to the canard or wing incidence to achieve this setting? I
understand some Q200 drivers use some down reflexor during approach and
landing to improve visibility over the nose and improve lift at approach
speeds. I think it is neat to be able to reduce main wing drag during high
cruise speeds with up reflexor. Do you have the belly board? If so, when

do

you deploy it? What is you pitch buck speed? What airspeed do you carry
"over the fence"?

Joseph

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineeri

<mailto:logistics_engineering%40msn.com>

ng@... <mailto:ng%40msn.com> > wrote:

Joseph,

The guys at Livermore recommend you get some time in an American
Yankee for pitch sensitivity and a Citabria for tail wheel control.
(Then maybe a little time in a Lancair 4P for speed control - just
kidding)

That works well for a transition to the Q200.

I set my plane up to be flown with no reflexor required during take
off or landing with pilot and pax aboard. The plane runs down the
runway in neutral stick position and levitates (not rotate)at the
appropriate speed. I use reflexor in flight to offset various CG
configurations. The reflexor can also be used in flight to gain a
couple of knots in flight.

Sorry I wasn't around Livermore when you were here in December. I
would have been more than happy to give you a ride, maybe in Jean?

Regards,
Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, Joseph

M Snow <1flashq@...> wrote:

Hi Darrell,

I have already configured my Q with dual controls; but the

aircraft has not flown its 40 hours. The problem is that I would
like to fly in another Q200 with dual controls for some hands on
experience prior to starting the flight testing phase.

I have two rides (much appreciated) and some data on a/c

configuration during various phases of flight, e.g. T.O., cruise,
pitch buck, traffic pattern, final approach, and touchdown. The
Q200's in which I have ridden did not have dual controls. As a
passenger, I can do turns, climbs, descents, and pitch bucks while
the pilot manages the throttle, rudder, reflexor, belly board. And I
can observe the the takeoff and landing. With a dual controlled
Q200, I could "ride the controls" to feel the pilot's input during
flight phases, and so gain valuable experience in the management of
my a/c. While instructing my students, I have them ride the controls
so that they will gain tactile experience along with visual,
auditory, kinesetic input during the instruction.

Further, I could use some more data as there are differences of

opinion on reflexor positioning as well as diffenceces in aircraft.
I have posted a chart in the Q-list Photo section which contains a
chart of the data desired. If anyone would be willing to complete
this chart (for their a/c: Q, Q2,Q2xxTri-Q2, etc. and mail it to
me (19101 South Lakeshore
Blvd, Euclid, Ohio 44119). See album CorvairQxx
http://ph.groups. <http://ph.groups.

<http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/photos>
yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/photos>

yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/photos I will compile

responses and make them available to the list. I have some responses
already from the Emporia, Ka. flyin last fall and from Livermore,
Ca. in December.

It has been recommended that I acquire taildragger experience. I

am arranging a taildragger endorsement in a cub. An EAA aquaintence
has a Texas taildragger (C150 with 180hp, controllable pitch prop,
conventional gear) in which I can get some dual experience. I have
found a Pitts resource in Pa. ($217/hr.!!). I am looking for other
possibilities.

Thanks,
Joseph Snow, CFII
CorvairQ2xx
N240JS

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickieb

<http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org> uilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org>

uilders.org> uilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links

Joseph,

I would not recommend "jerking the controls back and forth or
purposely ground looping your plane. I've never done it in 800 hours
flying time and see no need to do that. It just puts more stress on
the tires, wheels, wheel pants and canard..... For what? If your
plane works correctly there is no need.

Reards, Jim P.

--- In Q-LIST@..., Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...> wrote:

Jim,

Thanks for the information. I am always interested in a ride.

However, undecided about Jean.

Joseph

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Hi Jim,

Good to hear from you. Thanks for the invitation of a ride in your
Q200 at Jean, Nv. Does this mean you have dual controlls, i.e. dual
rudder pedals, brakes, throttle?

******No I have dual rudder pedals only. I jsut thought a ride

might

be beneficial to you since you are ready to fly.

Interesting description of reflexor use. Does this mean you set the
reflexor at neutral for takeoff and landing?

*********Yes, the reflexor is set to neutral with pilot only or

pilot

and pax. IMO the reflexor came after the problem. The Q airplane

was

designed to fly without a reflexor. Because of individual mis-
interpertation of the plans, people got into trouble when they

found

(on their first taxi series) that something wasn't right (either

tail

was comming up first or nose was comming up first, W&B was

incorrect)

and used the reflexor as a bandage rather than fixing the problem.

*********A Q that depends on "addons" for standard flight isn't

built

right. Your airplane should be able to fly just fine without a
relfexor. Having said that, I enjoy the abilities my reflexor
provides as stated in previous posts. Its a very good "options"
device.

Did you make some kind of modification to the canard or wing
incidence to achieve this setting?

No. Standard Q200 plans.

I understand some Q200 drivers use some down reflexor during

approach

and landing to improve visibility over the nose and improve lift at
approach speeds. I think it is neat to be able to reduce main wing
drag during high cruise speeds with up reflexor.

*******I've tried that method, may work for them but doesn't make
much difference to me.

Do you have the belly board? If so, when do you deploy it?

*********Yes. Deployed on downwind or short final under 115K.

What is you pitch buck speed?

********63-66 MPH

What airspeed do you carry "over the fence"?

********85-90 mph depending on loading fo airplane.

**********Further, I rarely look at the end fo the runway. I'm more
interested how far down the runway I plant the tailwheel. My visual
clue is the left main to the ground. I don't know if this comes

with

experience or just different piloting skills.

After all, ITS ALL EXPERIMENTAL. Good luck.

Regards,
Jim Patillo

Joseph

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@> wrote:

Joseph,

The guys at Livermore recommend you get some time in an American
Yankee for pitch sensitivity and a Citabria for tail wheel

control.

(Then maybe a little time in a Lancair 4P for speed control -

just

kidding)

That works well for a transition to the Q200.

I set my plane up to be flown with no reflexor required during

take

off or landing with pilot and pax aboard. The plane runs down the
runway in neutral stick position and levitates (not rotate)at the
appropriate speed. I use reflexor in flight to offset various CG
configurations. The reflexor can also be used in flight to gain a
couple of knots in flight.

Sorry I wasn't around Livermore when you were here in December. I
would have been more than happy to give you a ride, maybe in

Jean?

Regards,
Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

I'll probably try an intentional groundloop when I get to that stage however I am slightly concerned about stressing the ac. I read in "Fibreglass Boat Repair Manual" by Allan H. Vaitses (35 years in the industry and now a fibreglass boat surveyor) that any stress in excess of 25% - 33% of the ultimate limits does irreversible accumulative damage to the fibreglass. I understand that our ac (if built right) have a strength safety factor of 3 (3 x stronger than they have to be?). I presume that means that the ac would have to be stressed to the max allowable (4.5g) to reach 33% of its ultimate limits. However if that high stress level is reached, it gradually lowers the safety factor so that over the years the ac is probably getting weaker. Therefore it will exceed 33% of its ultimate limit more and more often as the safety factor gets eroded.
Allan Farr

Hi Peter,
I kind giggled cause holding force on the stick of any kind for 4 hours is not going to happen. In cruise with full up ailerons I can easily trim out the stick forces which in this case is forward on the elevator, maybe 5 lbs?
Mike Q200 N3QP


Peter Harris wrote:

Jim,

Thanks for the information. I am always interested in a ride. However, undecided about Jean.

Joseph

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Hi Jim,

Good to hear from you. Thanks for the invitation of a ride in your
Q200 at Jean, Nv. Does this mean you have dual controlls, i.e. dual
rudder pedals, brakes, throttle?

******No I have dual rudder pedals only. I jsut thought a ride might
be beneficial to you since you are ready to fly.

Interesting description of reflexor use. Does this mean you set the
reflexor at neutral for takeoff and landing?

*********Yes, the reflexor is set to neutral with pilot only or pilot
and pax. IMO the reflexor came after the problem. The Q airplane was
designed to fly without a reflexor. Because of individual mis-
interpertation of the plans, people got into trouble when they found
(on their first taxi series) that something wasn't right (either tail
was comming up first or nose was comming up first, W&B was incorrect)
and used the reflexor as a bandage rather than fixing the problem.

*********A Q that depends on "addons" for standard flight isn't built
right. Your airplane should be able to fly just fine without a
relfexor. Having said that, I enjoy the abilities my reflexor
provides as stated in previous posts. Its a very good "options"
device.

Did you make some kind of modification to the canard or wing
incidence to achieve this setting?

No. Standard Q200 plans.

I understand some Q200 drivers use some down reflexor during approach
and landing to improve visibility over the nose and improve lift at
approach speeds. I think it is neat to be able to reduce main wing
drag during high cruise speeds with up reflexor.

*******I've tried that method, may work for them but doesn't make
much difference to me.

Do you have the belly board? If so, when do you deploy it?

*********Yes. Deployed on downwind or short final under 115K.

What is you pitch buck speed?

********63-66 MPH

What airspeed do you carry "over the fence"?

********85-90 mph depending on loading fo airplane.

**********Further, I rarely look at the end fo the runway. I'm more
interested how far down the runway I plant the tailwheel. My visual
clue is the left main to the ground. I don't know if this comes with
experience or just different piloting skills.

After all, ITS ALL EXPERIMENTAL. Good luck.

Regards,
Jim Patillo

Joseph

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Joseph,

The guys at Livermore recommend you get some time in an American
Yankee for pitch sensitivity and a Citabria for tail wheel control.
(Then maybe a little time in a Lancair 4P for speed control - just
kidding)

That works well for a transition to the Q200.

I set my plane up to be flown with no reflexor required during take
off or landing with pilot and pax aboard. The plane runs down the
runway in neutral stick position and levitates (not rotate)at the
appropriate speed. I use reflexor in flight to offset various CG
configurations. The reflexor can also be used in flight to gain a
couple of knots in flight.

Sorry I wasn't around Livermore when you were here in December. I
would have been more than happy to give you a ride, maybe in Jean?

Regards,
Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

--- In Q-LIST@..., Joseph M Snow <1flashq@> wrote:

Hi Darrell,

I have already configured my Q with dual controls; but the

aircraft has not flown its 40 hours. The problem is that I would
like to fly in another Q200 with dual controls for some hands on
experience prior to starting the flight testing phase.

I have two rides (much appreciated) and some data on a/c

configuration during various phases of flight, e.g. T.O., cruise,
pitch buck, traffic pattern, final approach, and touchdown. The
Q200's in which I have ridden did not have dual controls. As a
passenger, I can do turns, climbs, descents, and pitch bucks while
the pilot manages the throttle, rudder, reflexor, belly board. And

I

can observe the the takeoff and landing. With a dual controlled
Q200, I could "ride the controls" to feel the pilot's input during
flight phases, and so gain valuable experience in the management of
my a/c. While instructing my students, I have them ride the

controls

so that they will gain tactile experience along with visual,
auditory, kinesetic input during the instruction.

Further, I could use some more data as there are differences of

opinion on reflexor positioning as well as diffenceces in aircraft.
I have posted a chart in the Q-list Photo section which contains a
chart of the data desired. If anyone would be willing to complete
this chart (for their a/c: Q, Q2,Q2xxTri-Q2, etc. and mail it to
me (19101 South Lakeshore
Blvd, Euclid, Ohio 44119). See album CorvairQxx
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/photos I will compile
responses and make them available to the list. I have some

responses

already from the Emporia, Ka. flyin last fall and from Livermore,
Ca. in December.

It has been recommended that I acquire taildragger experience. I

am arranging a taildragger endorsement in a cub. An EAA aquaintence
has a Texas taildragger (C150 with 180hp, controllable pitch prop,
conventional gear) in which I can get some dual experience. I have
found a Pitts resource in Pa. ($217/hr.!!). I am looking for other
possibilities.

Thanks,
Joseph Snow, CFII
CorvairQ2xx
N240JS

All my bax are headed for Jon in CA right now.

j.



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hi Jim,

Good to hear from you. Thanks for the invitation of a ride in your
Q200 at Jean, Nv. Does this mean you have dual controlls, i.e. dual
rudder pedals, brakes, throttle?

******No I have dual rudder pedals only. I jsut thought a ride might
be beneficial to you since you are ready to fly.

Interesting description of reflexor use. Does this mean you set the
reflexor at neutral for takeoff and landing?

*********Yes, the reflexor is set to neutral with pilot only or pilot
and pax. IMO the reflexor came after the problem. The Q airplane was
designed to fly without a reflexor. Because of individual mis-
interpertation of the plans, people got into trouble when they found
(on their first taxi series) that something wasn't right (either tail
was comming up first or nose was comming up first, W&B was incorrect)
and used the reflexor as a bandage rather than fixing the problem.

*********A Q that depends on "addons" for standard flight isn't built
right. Your airplane should be able to fly just fine without a
relfexor. Having said that, I enjoy the abilities my reflexor
provides as stated in previous posts. Its a very good "options"
device.

Did you make some kind of modification to the canard or wing
incidence to achieve this setting?

No. Standard Q200 plans.

I understand some Q200 drivers use some down reflexor during approach
and landing to improve visibility over the nose and improve lift at
approach speeds. I think it is neat to be able to reduce main wing
drag during high cruise speeds with up reflexor.

*******I've tried that method, may work for them but doesn't make
much difference to me.

Do you have the belly board? If so, when do you deploy it?

*********Yes. Deployed on downwind or short final under 115K.

What is you pitch buck speed?

********63-66 MPH


What airspeed do you carry "over the fence"?

********85-90 mph depending on loading fo airplane.


**********Further, I rarely look at the end fo the runway. I'm more
interested how far down the runway I plant the tailwheel. My visual
clue is the left main to the ground. I don't know if this comes with
experience or just different piloting skills.

After all, ITS ALL EXPERIMENTAL. Good luck.

Regards,
Jim Patillo

Joseph

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Joseph,

The guys at Livermore recommend you get some time in an American
Yankee for pitch sensitivity and a Citabria for tail wheel control.
(Then maybe a little time in a Lancair 4P for speed control - just
kidding)

That works well for a transition to the Q200.

I set my plane up to be flown with no reflexor required during take
off or landing with pilot and pax aboard. The plane runs down the
runway in neutral stick position and levitates (not rotate)at the
appropriate speed. I use reflexor in flight to offset various CG
configurations. The reflexor can also be used in flight to gain a
couple of knots in flight.

Sorry I wasn't around Livermore when you were here in December. I
would have been more than happy to give you a ride, maybe in Jean?

Regards,
Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

--- In Q-LIST@..., Joseph M Snow <1flashq@> wrote:

Hi Darrell,

I have already configured my Q with dual controls; but the

aircraft has not flown its 40 hours. The problem is that I would
like to fly in another Q200 with dual controls for some hands on
experience prior to starting the flight testing phase.

I have two rides (much appreciated) and some data on a/c

configuration during various phases of flight, e.g. T.O., cruise,
pitch buck, traffic pattern, final approach, and touchdown. The
Q200's in which I have ridden did not have dual controls. As a
passenger, I can do turns, climbs, descents, and pitch bucks while
the pilot manages the throttle, rudder, reflexor, belly board. And

I

can observe the the takeoff and landing. With a dual controlled
Q200, I could "ride the controls" to feel the pilot's input during
flight phases, and so gain valuable experience in the management of
my a/c. While instructing my students, I have them ride the

controls

so that they will gain tactile experience along with visual,
auditory, kinesetic input during the instruction.

Further, I could use some more data as there are differences of

opinion on reflexor positioning as well as diffenceces in aircraft.
I have posted a chart in the Q-list Photo section which contains a
chart of the data desired. If anyone would be willing to complete
this chart (for their a/c: Q, Q2,Q2xxTri-Q2, etc. and mail it to
me (19101 South Lakeshore
Blvd, Euclid, Ohio 44119). See album CorvairQxx
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/photos I will compile
responses and make them available to the list. I have some

responses

already from the Emporia, Ka. flyin last fall and from Livermore,
Ca. in December.

It has been recommended that I acquire taildragger experience. I

am arranging a taildragger endorsement in a cub. An EAA aquaintence
has a Texas taildragger (C150 with 180hp, controllable pitch prop,
conventional gear) in which I can get some dual experience. I have
found a Pitts resource in Pa. ($217/hr.!!). I am looking for other
possibilities.

Thanks,
Joseph Snow, CFII
CorvairQ2xx
N240JS

Mike,

With full up aelerons have you got enough trim springs to trim for level
flight or do you need to hold the nose down with the stick?

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Mike Dwyer
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2007 8:25 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Spring Flyin



Best speed on my plane is with full (QCA limits) up ailerons. I
reported my max speed a while ago complete with baro and temps. It's in
the archive somewhere, probably under flight test... Say 200+ mph.
Mike Q200 N3QP

Joseph M Snow wrote:

Mike,

I had not thought about the effect on the canard when moving the reflexor

up on the main wing. Decreasing the canard's angle of attack would decrease
the drag there also. Does the 4 knot increase occur with full reflexor up?
What is your max cruise airspeed with reflexor full up?

Thanks,

Joseph






w

Mike Dwyer <mdwyer@tampabay. <mailto:mdwyer%40tampabay.rr.com> rr.com>

wrote:

Hey Joe,
One thing you wrote lead me to believe you have a slight
misunderstanding of the Reflexer.
This Q airplane is being lifted by two wings. If you put the ailerons
up, thus reducing lift on the rear wing then you have to go forward on
the stick thus reducing lift on the front wing (otherwise you'd be in a
fast climb). So in effect you are reducing the drag on both wings by
reflexing the rear ailerons up. I get 4mph for free by reflexing the
ailerons up in cruise.
Mike Q200 N3QP

Joseph M Snow wrote:

Hi Jim,

Good to hear from you. Thanks for the invitation of a ride in your Q200

at Jean, Nv. Does this mean you have dual controlls, i.e. dual rudder
pedals, brakes, throttle? I remember seeing the center stick when I was at
Livermore.

Interesting description of reflexor use. Does this mean you set the

reflexor at neutral for takeoff and landing? Did you make some kind of
modification to the canard or wing incidence to achieve this setting? I
understand some Q200 drivers use some down reflexor during approach and
landing to improve visibility over the nose and improve lift at approach
speeds. I think it is neat to be able to reduce main wing drag during high
cruise speeds with up reflexor. Do you have the belly board? If so, when do
you deploy it? What is you pitch buck speed? What airspeed do you carry
"over the fence"?

Joseph

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineeri <mailto:logistics_engineering%40msn.com>

ng@...> wrote:

Joseph,

The guys at Livermore recommend you get some time in an American
Yankee for pitch sensitivity and a Citabria for tail wheel control.
(Then maybe a little time in a Lancair 4P for speed control - just
kidding)

That works well for a transition to the Q200.

I set my plane up to be flown with no reflexor required during take
off or landing with pilot and pax aboard. The plane runs down the
runway in neutral stick position and levitates (not rotate)at the
appropriate speed. I use reflexor in flight to offset various CG
configurations. The reflexor can also be used in flight to gain a
couple of knots in flight.

Sorry I wasn't around Livermore when you were here in December. I
would have been more than happy to give you a ride, maybe in Jean?

Regards,
Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, Joseph

M Snow <1flashq@...> wrote:

Hi Darrell,

I have already configured my Q with dual controls; but the

aircraft has not flown its 40 hours. The problem is that I would
like to fly in another Q200 with dual controls for some hands on
experience prior to starting the flight testing phase.

I have two rides (much appreciated) and some data on a/c

configuration during various phases of flight, e.g. T.O., cruise,
pitch buck, traffic pattern, final approach, and touchdown. The
Q200's in which I have ridden did not have dual controls. As a
passenger, I can do turns, climbs, descents, and pitch bucks while
the pilot manages the throttle, rudder, reflexor, belly board. And I
can observe the the takeoff and landing. With a dual controlled
Q200, I could "ride the controls" to feel the pilot's input during
flight phases, and so gain valuable experience in the management of
my a/c. While instructing my students, I have them ride the controls
so that they will gain tactile experience along with visual,
auditory, kinesetic input during the instruction.

Further, I could use some more data as there are differences of

opinion on reflexor positioning as well as diffenceces in aircraft.
I have posted a chart in the Q-list Photo section which contains a
chart of the data desired. If anyone would be willing to complete
this chart (for their a/c: Q, Q2,Q2xxTri-Q2, etc. and mail it to
me (19101 South Lakeshore
Blvd, Euclid, Ohio 44119). See album CorvairQxx
http://ph.groups. <http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/photos>

yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/photos I will compile

responses and make them available to the list. I have some responses
already from the Emporia, Ka. flyin last fall and from Livermore,
Ca. in December.

It has been recommended that I acquire taildragger experience. I

am arranging a taildragger endorsement in a cub. An EAA aquaintence
has a Texas taildragger (C150 with 180hp, controllable pitch prop,
conventional gear) in which I can get some dual experience. I have
found a Pitts resource in Pa. ($217/hr.!!). I am looking for other
possibilities.

Thanks,
Joseph Snow, CFII
CorvairQ2xx
N240JS

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links

I would like to second Peters advice.
Mike Q200 N3QP 1000+ hours.

Peter Harris wrote:

Joseph if you have a Q dragger, before you fly, spend several sessions fast
taxi and when confident deliberately upset and practice recovery. Jerking
the stick back and forth may set up an oscillation which happens very
occasionally on landing. The fix for me is to hold the stick back hard and
that damps the oscillation. Try taking your eyes off the end of the runway
and I will bet you lose control due to PIO. Be sure to watch the end of the
runway no matter what.

I would recommend also try a ground loop at say 20KTS. There is no recovery
and normally no damage except to the ego but inspect for sure.

(If a Tri Q the above does not apply.)

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2007 8:59 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test



OOPs! I got that just opposit. Thanks for pointing that out.

Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
Joseph note that I am saying that my Q rotates better at take off and flares
better landing and steers better on roll out with the aelerons up not down.

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2007 7:16 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test

No, I am not yet flying. Hopefully in June. Currently painting the bottom
surfaces.
I have heard pitchbuck speeds range from 64-80 mph (your 55 kts is equal to
64 mph). The variations are functions of gross wt. and cg position. Several
Q dirvers agree with your assessment that the Q lands better with reflexor
down. Thanks for your description of landing configuration and performance.
Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
Joseph,

Pitch buck for my Q happens at 55 KTS. I have no belly board, there do seem
to be some various opinions about the merit of a belly board. I did not like
the idea of a board opening forward. In any case air speed is going to be
limited by the stall speed, but the board could reduce the ground run.I am
using a small amount of power on final approach. On a few occasions I have
used more power and flown on back of the curve with the nose higher but
visibility is less.The final flare is a mush I suppose, but it happens
quickly. I never could understand all the talk about ground handling
problems until I tried landing with the aelerons neutral. Now with reflex
ground handling is good again.

Are you flying Joseph.?

(Sometimes I get delays through Yahoo also)

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2007 2:57 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test

Ok, you seemed to get through. I have tried to respond to you post on three
occasions. It does not show up in my Inbox. Here is my earlier response:

Very interesting! So, on final your configuration is reflexor up, 70 kts
over the fence. Are you using a bellyboard? Are you using power to fly onto
the runway (power controls altitude at MCA)? At what airspeed does the pitch
buck occur in this configuration? Are you "mushing" without the pitch buck?

Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
What troubles Joseph ?

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2007 2:38 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Test

Is anyone having trouble with replies on the Q-list?

Joseph

OOPs! I got that just opposit. Thanks for pointing that out.

Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...> wrote:
Joseph note that I am saying that my Q rotates better at take off and flares
better landing and steers better on roll out with the aelerons up not down.

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2007 7:16 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test

No, I am not yet flying. Hopefully in June. Currently painting the bottom
surfaces.
I have heard pitchbuck speeds range from 64-80 mph (your 55 kts is equal to
64 mph). The variations are functions of gross wt. and cg position. Several
Q dirvers agree with your assessment that the Q lands better with reflexor
down. Thanks for your description of landing configuration and performance.
Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
Joseph,

Pitch buck for my Q happens at 55 KTS. I have no belly board, there do seem
to be some various opinions about the merit of a belly board. I did not like
the idea of a board opening forward. In any case air speed is going to be
limited by the stall speed, but the board could reduce the ground run.I am
using a small amount of power on final approach. On a few occasions I have
used more power and flown on back of the curve with the nose higher but
visibility is less.The final flare is a mush I suppose, but it happens
quickly. I never could understand all the talk about ground handling
problems until I tried landing with the aelerons neutral. Now with reflex
ground handling is good again.

Are you flying Joseph.?

(Sometimes I get delays through Yahoo also)

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2007 2:57 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test

Ok, you seemed to get through. I have tried to respond to you post on three
occasions. It does not show up in my Inbox. Here is my earlier response:

Very interesting! So, on final your configuration is reflexor up, 70 kts
over the fence. Are you using a bellyboard? Are you using power to fly onto
the runway (power controls altitude at MCA)? At what airspeed does the pitch
buck occur in this configuration? Are you "mushing" without the pitch buck?

Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
What troubles Joseph ?

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2007 2:38 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Test

Is anyone having trouble with replies on the Q-list?

Joseph

Best speed on my plane is with full (QCA limits) up ailerons. I reported my max speed a while ago complete with baro and temps. It's in the archive somewhere, probably under flight test... Say 200+ mph.
Mike Q200 N3QP



Joseph M Snow wrote:

Joseph note that I am saying that my Q rotates better at take off and flares
better landing and steers better on roll out with the aelerons up not down.

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2007 7:16 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test



No, I am not yet flying. Hopefully in June. Currently painting the bottom
surfaces.
I have heard pitchbuck speeds range from 64-80 mph (your 55 kts is equal to
64 mph). The variations are functions of gross wt. and cg position. Several
Q dirvers agree with your assessment that the Q lands better with reflexor
down. Thanks for your description of landing configuration and performance.
Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
Joseph,

Pitch buck for my Q happens at 55 KTS. I have no belly board, there do seem
to be some various opinions about the merit of a belly board. I did not like
the idea of a board opening forward. In any case air speed is going to be
limited by the stall speed, but the board could reduce the ground run.I am
using a small amount of power on final approach. On a few occasions I have
used more power and flown on back of the curve with the nose higher but
visibility is less.The final flare is a mush I suppose, but it happens
quickly. I never could understand all the talk about ground handling
problems until I tried landing with the aelerons neutral. Now with reflex
ground handling is good again.

Are you flying Joseph.?

(Sometimes I get delays through Yahoo also)

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2007 2:57 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Test

Ok, you seemed to get through. I have tried to respond to you post on three
occasions. It does not show up in my Inbox. Here is my earlier response:

Very interesting! So, on final your configuration is reflexor up, 70 kts
over the fence. Are you using a bellyboard? Are you using power to fly onto
the runway (power controls altitude at MCA)? At what airspeed does the pitch
buck occur in this configuration? Are you "mushing" without the pitch buck?

Joseph

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@ <mailto:peterjfharris%40bigpond.com>
bigpond.com> wrote:
What troubles Joseph ?

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph M Snow
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2007 2:38 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Test

Is anyone having trouble with replies on the Q-list?

Joseph

Also will compare activity at Yahoo groups.

Joseph

Mike Perry <dmperry1012@...> wrote:
Regarding replies not showing up: I found last spring (2006) that some of
my postings were showing up on the web site but not coming to me; then I
realized I was only getting some of the postings by others. The way to
find out is to compare what is on the list site
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/ with what comes to your in-box.

Apparently my ISP was screening out some of the files as spam. Problem
went away when I talked to the ISP. There may be other causes.

Mike Perry