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Re: noise filters
Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
I think those are the plugs I have Dave.
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Doug "Hawkeye" Humble A Sign Above www.asignabove.net Omaha NE N25974
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Dugas To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:33 PM Subject: [Q-LIST] noise filters Hi Rene Doug Jon and Larry, Thanks for the responses. I'm going to look at all of the suggestions, especially the filters. What kind of spark plugs do you use, because I believe the plugs are the source of my trouble. I've got NGK resistor plugs installed now. Thanks again......Dave Dugas --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Help!
Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
This subject really needs to go to the performance list.
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Doug "Hawkeye" Humble A Sign Above www.asignabove.net Omaha NE N25974
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Muscat To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Help! Larry hate to pick on ya but...yes you are correct in that the IDEA behind a canard is to have it stall fisrt.. and in a nice level stall where every part of the wing is going the same speed, as long as the canard stalls first you don't have to worry about wash out. but wash out is also used for stability in turns..you can tip stall a canard aircrafts wing with out stalling the canard if there is no wash out ... this is especially relevant in highly swept wings like the Cozy mk IV which also has 2.1* net washout with a 22.98* wing sweep... the tip of the largest wing (like on the Cozy) during a turn is traveling a smaller circle than the innermost tip of the smaller canard .. it is the slowest part of the aircraft .. if there is no wash out it is very possible (and probable) that at close to canard stall speeds (unless you hike up the canards incidence so much that it turns into a barn door) that the tip will slow and stall first (the wing stalling first). Wash out is mostly critical in flying wings but it is used in every aircraft i know of in varying degrees for this reason. Including all of rutans canards. now im sure it will come up . "but the q-birds have the same size wings there for the canards tip will stall first .aaaha the canard stalls first". but you don't want just a tip to stall in any configuration ,or that one flight during your approach turn when you have over shooting winds and you rap it up to make extended runway centerline, the plane flops on its back and scares you out of your mind because you stalled the inboard half of your lifting surfaces . so we put wash out on both the canard and the wing . and that is what we have on the quickies. (overdramatic but you get the idea) . larry severson <larry2@...> wrote: >Washout is used to prevent tip stall as the aircraft approaches full >stall, and thereby enhancing low speed roll stability, especially >useful during the landing flare. >Without it, using aileron to pick up a low wing could actually cause >a flick roll in the opposite direction to that commanded. I absolutely agree with your statement when referencing a conventional A/C with the aft stab and elevator. However, the purpose of the canard design is to ensure that the main wing NEVER stalls over any portion of the wing. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@... --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: noise filters
Dave,
Forgot to mention in my last post,I'm also using NGK resistor plugs. They have screw on caps so check them to make sure they are not loose. That also will cause the problem. im P. --- In Q-LIST@..., Dave Dugas <davedq2@...> wrote: suggestions, especially the filters. What kind of spark plugs do you use, because I believe the plugs are the source of my trouble. I've got NGK resistor plugs installed now. Thanks again......Dave Dugas 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
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Re: noise filters
Hello Brother Dave,
I got some radio noise a couple of months ago and thought my electronic ingitions were at fault. Close up reception was clear but when I received from a distance the radio had a lot of static. I changed out all four coils but nothing happened. Changed out my resistor auto plugs ($16.00 total) that had about 50 hours on them and the problem went away. Sometimes a resistor in the plug will fail prematurely. Hope your problem is that simple! Tell your lovely wife I said hello. Regards, Jim Patillo N46JP Q200 800 hours in type with twisted and warped wings. God I hope this thing continues to fly. Jason, Larry and Peter are scarin' the hell out of me. Maybe I should stop doing vertical departures. What do you think? -- In Q-LIST@..., "Jon Finley" <jon@...> wrote: 270-041 filter as described by Bob Nuckollsconversion, and can suggest how to eliminate it? Do noise filters work? Thanks.......Dave Dugas
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noise filters
Dave Dugas
Hi Rene Doug Jon and Larry,
Thanks for the responses. I'm going to look at all of the suggestions, especially the filters. What kind of spark plugs do you use, because I believe the plugs are the source of my trouble. I've got NGK resistor plugs installed now. Thanks again......Dave Dugas --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Help!
Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...>
Larry
hate to pick on ya but...yes you are correct in that the IDEA behind a canard is to have it stall fisrt.. and in a nice level stall where every part of the wing is going the same speed, as long as the canard stalls first you don’t have to worry about wash out… but wash out is also used for stability in turns….you can tip stall a canard aircrafts wing with out stalling the canard if there is no wash out ... this is especially relevant in highly swept wings like the Cozy mk IV which also has 2.1* net washout with a 22.98* wing sweep... the tip of the largest wing (like on the Cozy) during a turn is traveling a smaller circle than the innermost tip of the smaller canard .. it is the slowest part of the aircraft .. if there is no wash out it is very possible (and probable) that at close to canard stall speeds (unless you hike up the canards incidence so much that it turns into a barn door) that the tip will slow and stall first (the wing stalling first). Wash out is mostly critical in flying wings but it is used in every aircraft i know of in varying degrees for this reason. Including all of rutans canards… now im sure it will come up … “but the q-birds have the same size wings there for the canards tip will stall first …aaaha the canard stalls first”… but you don’t want just a tip to stall in any configuration ,or that one flight during your approach turn when you have over shooting winds and you rap it up to make extended runway centerline, the plane flops on its back and scares you out of your mind because you stalled the inboard half of your lifting surfaces … so we put wash out on both the canard and the wing … and that is what we have on the quickies. (overdramatic but you get the idea) … larry severson <larry2@...> wrote: Washout is used to prevent tip stall as the aircraft approaches fullI absolutely agree with your statement when referencing a conventional A/C with the aft stab and elevator. However, the purpose of the canard design is to ensure that the main wing NEVER stalls over any portion of the wing. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@... --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Help!
Larry Severson
Not to beat a dead horse but in short ...please,agree It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout.Aero logic, NOT recommendation! What are your reasons for considering washin for the Q wing, just because it has inboard ailerons? I did not recommend washin. I said that it made more sense than washout for the main wing since the aileron was inboard, If the wing would ever stall. What I said was that ANY twist on the main wing was contraindicated for a canard bird. However, I would not change a successful design. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@...
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Re: noise filters
Larry Severson
At 07:31 AM 9/27/2006, you wrote:
Hi all,yes and can suggest how to eliminate it?I wrapped alum foil around all of the electrical wires from the fire wall.Noise went. Removed foil from one side. It returned. Do noise filters work?The one on my plane didn't. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@...
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Re: Help!
Larry Severson
Washout is used to prevent tip stall as the aircraft approaches full stall, and thereby enhancing low speed roll stability, especially useful during the landing flare.I absolutely agree with your statement when referencing a conventional A/C with the aft stab and elevator. However, the purpose of the canard design is to ensure that the main wing NEVER stalls over any portion of the wing. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@...
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Re: noise filters
Jon Finley <jon@...>
Hi Dave,
Not an answer to your question but perhaps something more for you to consider. I had strobe noise in my intercom and installed a Radio Shack 270-041 filter as described by Bob Nuckolls (http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf), it solved the problem. Jon Finley N90MG - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 Legacy http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru Mid-Valley Airpark, Los Lunas, NM From: Dave Dugas davedq2@... Hi all, Anyone experience engine noise with the Revmaster auto plug conversion, and can suggest how to eliminate it? Do noise filters work? Thanks...... .Dave Dugas
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Re: Help!
Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...>
lol
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Bob Farnam <bfarnam@...> wrote: This discussion has gotten off track with a number of half truths and inaccuracies. If anyone wants to read a straightforward discussion of airfoils and wings, I suggest the following link. It is complete enough to be useful, but not heavy reading. http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule4.html Bob F. N200QK
-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of larry severson Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:19 PM To: Q-LIST@... Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Help! This discussion actually belongs on the Qperformance list; however, I will sink deeper. Washout (washin, or any twisting of the wing) makes the wing less effective as a lifting device, and increases drag. So, why is it done? Simple, it allows controlled stall area on a wing. This is important when one wants to insure that the ailerons aren't in the stall area. Washin is used when the aileron is near the wing root. No one does this because the moment arm provided by placing the aileron near the wing tip allows a significantly smaller aileron to achieve the same control effectiveness. The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout. The canard has a large elevator for the same reason. It's placement relative to the CG provides a small moment arm as compared to having the elevator well back on a horizontal stab. It also has a higher angle of incidence than the main wing to insure that it ALWAYS stalls first in EVERY area of flight (within the design CG range). A couple Velocity canard planes have crashed due to flying aft of the design CG range. The whole idea of a canard aircraft design was to solve problems: 1. Remove the stall/spin. 2. Simplify wing construction. 3. Reduce drag. Simply stated, any twisting of the wings is contra-indicated for a canard aircraft, as long as the ailerons are on the main wing. The Q would not be anywhere as efficient as it is if it had the twist claimed! (Look at the bottom of a Gu canard or Q2 wing and look for that twisting.) Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Help!
Bob Farnam <bfarnam@...>
This discussion has gotten off track with a number of half truths and
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
inaccuracies. If anyone wants to read a straightforward discussion of airfoils and wings, I suggest the following link. It is complete enough to be useful, but not heavy reading. http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule4.html Bob F. N200QK
-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of larry severson Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:19 PM To: Q-LIST@... Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Help! This discussion actually belongs on the Qperformance list; however, I will sink deeper. Washout (washin, or any twisting of the wing) makes the wing less effective as a lifting device, and increases drag. So, why is it done? Simple, it allows controlled stall area on a wing. This is important when one wants to insure that the ailerons aren't in the stall area. Washin is used when the aileron is near the wing root. No one does this because the moment arm provided by placing the aileron near the wing tip allows a significantly smaller aileron to achieve the same control effectiveness. The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout. The canard has a large elevator for the same reason. It's placement relative to the CG provides a small moment arm as compared to having the elevator well back on a horizontal stab. It also has a higher angle of incidence than the main wing to insure that it ALWAYS stalls first in EVERY area of flight (within the design CG range). A couple Velocity canard planes have crashed due to flying aft of the design CG range. The whole idea of a canard aircraft design was to solve problems: 1. Remove the stall/spin. 2. Simplify wing construction. 3. Reduce drag. Simply stated, any twisting of the wings is contra-indicated for a canard aircraft, as long as the ailerons are on the main wing. The Q would not be anywhere as efficient as it is if it had the twist claimed! (Look at the bottom of a Gu canard or Q2 wing and look for that twisting.) Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@...
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Re: Inspector and Instructor for Q-2
jerry kennedy <jerrykennedy2001@...>
--- Dave Dugas <davedq2@...> wrote:
Phil'side to close the canopy. He had to fly home on comercial. ---------- JerryKennedy----------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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Re: noise filters
Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
Dave- I had a noise when the mag was on to the point that I always turned it off after takeoff and turned it on for landing, using only the electronic ignition in between. I bought auto plugs with noise filter built in and the noise went away.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Doug "Hawkeye" Humble A Sign Above www.asignabove.net Omaha NE N25974
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Dugas To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:31 AM Subject: [Q-LIST] noise filters Hi all, Anyone experience engine noise with the Revmaster auto plug conversion, and can suggest how to eliminate it? Do noise filters work? Thanks.......Dave Dugas --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
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Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1
Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...>
LMAO ... i gues i could just start putting math formulas up as i dont realy comunicate well with text, but thats no fun ... :)
Tri-Q1 <rryan@...> wrote: Quarky, this is the first time you have made any cents. Ryan --- In Q-LIST@..., Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...> wrote: TWENETY ONE GIGAWATS !!!! (slides the spectacles deeper in his brow) .... im realy not that bad ... i have simply nothign better to do with my time right now except read my e-mail and plan out building my plane ... have to "veg" as long as i can wile i can ;) .. sorry guys ill shut up ... lol --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Help!
Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...>
Not to beat a dead horse but in short ...please, no body put wash IN on your wings ... i cant think of any aircraft ever that has ever utilized wash in or a reason why you would …it would be very bad … for any one building the q and reading this don’t do it … just don’t… lol
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Paul Buckley <paulbuckley@...> wrote: Larry Severson wrote:- The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout. I don't wish to be argumentative Larry, but I don't agree with your statements. Washout is used to prevent tip stall as the aircraft approaches full stall, and thereby enhancing low speed roll stability, especially useful during the landing flare. Without it, using aileron to pick up a low wing could actually cause a flick roll in the opposite direction to that commanded. The fact that the ailerons are inboard on the Q's has no influence on washout, or lack of it. What are your reasons for considering washin for the Q wing, just because it has inboard ailerons? Paul Buckley Cheshire England
----- Original Message -----
From: larry severson To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Help! This discussion actually belongs on the Qperformance list; however, I will sink deeper. Washout (washin, or any twisting of the wing) makes the wing less effective as a lifting device, and increases drag. So, why is it done? Simple, it allows controlled stall area on a wing. This is important when one wants to insure that the ailerons aren't in the stall area. Washin is used when the aileron is near the wing root. No one does this because the moment arm provided by placing the aileron near the wing tip allows a significantly smaller aileron to achieve the same control effectiveness. The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout. The canard has a large elevator for the same reason. It's placement relative to the CG provides a small moment arm as compared to having the elevator well back on a horizontal stab. It also has a higher angle of incidence than the main wing to insure that it ALWAYS stalls first in EVERY area of flight (within the design CG range). A couple Velocity canard planes have crashed due to flying aft of the design CG range. The whole idea of a canard aircraft design was to solve problems: 1. Remove the stall/spin. 2. Simplify wing construction. 3. Reduce drag. Simply stated, any twisting of the wings is contra-indicated for a canard aircraft, as long as the ailerons are on the main wing. The Q would not be anywhere as efficient as it is if it had the twist claimed! (Look at the bottom of a Gu canard or Q2 wing and look for that twisting.) Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@... ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 26/09/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
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Re: noise filters
Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...>
Hi Dave,
I converted my dual Revmaster mag harness over to automotive wires and am using automotive plugs. I have never had any electrical noise from the system. What sort of interferance problems are you having, is it on radio reception, transmission, or on the intercom system? Radio Shack (here "The Source") has inexpensive noise filters and they should be mounted as close to the input power to your radio or intercom as possible, but I have never tried them and don't know if they work. Regards Rene Q2 C-FBWV From: Dave Dugas davedq2@... Hi all, Anyone experience engine noise with the Revmaster auto plug conversion, and can suggest how to eliminate it? Do noise filters work? Thanks...... .Dave Dugas ------------ --------- --------- --- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
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noise filters
Dave Dugas
Hi all,
Anyone experience engine noise with the Revmaster auto plug conversion, and can suggest how to eliminate it? Do noise filters work? Thanks.......Dave Dugas --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
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Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1
Tri-Q1 <rryan@...>
Quarky, this is the first time you have made any cents.
Ryan --- In Q-LIST@..., Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...> wrote: TWENETY ONE GIGAWATS !!!! (slides the spectacles deeper in his brow) .... im realy not that bad ... i have simply nothign better to do with my time right now except read my e-mail and plan out building my plane ... have to "veg" as long as i can wile i can ;) .. sorry guys ill shut up ... lol
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Re: Help!
Paul Buckley
Larry Severson wrote:-
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout. I don't wish to be argumentative Larry, but I don't agree with your statements. Washout is used to prevent tip stall as the aircraft approaches full stall, and thereby enhancing low speed roll stability, especially useful during the landing flare. Without it, using aileron to pick up a low wing could actually cause a flick roll in the opposite direction to that commanded. The fact that the ailerons are inboard on the Q's has no influence on washout, or lack of it. What are your reasons for considering washin for the Q wing, just because it has inboard ailerons? Paul Buckley Cheshire England
----- Original Message -----
From: larry severson To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Help! This discussion actually belongs on the Qperformance list; however, I will sink deeper. Washout (washin, or any twisting of the wing) makes the wing less effective as a lifting device, and increases drag. So, why is it done? Simple, it allows controlled stall area on a wing. This is important when one wants to insure that the ailerons aren't in the stall area. Washin is used when the aileron is near the wing root. No one does this because the moment arm provided by placing the aileron near the wing tip allows a significantly smaller aileron to achieve the same control effectiveness. The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout. The canard has a large elevator for the same reason. It's placement relative to the CG provides a small moment arm as compared to having the elevator well back on a horizontal stab. It also has a higher angle of incidence than the main wing to insure that it ALWAYS stalls first in EVERY area of flight (within the design CG range). A couple Velocity canard planes have crashed due to flying aft of the design CG range. The whole idea of a canard aircraft design was to solve problems: 1. Remove the stall/spin. 2. Simplify wing construction. 3. Reduce drag. Simply stated, any twisting of the wings is contra-indicated for a canard aircraft, as long as the ailerons are on the main wing. The Q would not be anywhere as efficient as it is if it had the twist claimed! (Look at the bottom of a Gu canard or Q2 wing and look for that twisting.) Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 26/09/2006
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