Date   

Re: noise filters

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

I think those are the plugs I have Dave.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Dugas
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:33 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] noise filters


Hi Rene Doug Jon and Larry,

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to look at all of the suggestions, especially the filters. What kind of spark plugs do you use, because I believe the plugs are the source of my trouble. I've got NGK resistor plugs installed now. Thanks again......Dave Dugas


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Re: Help!

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

This subject really needs to go to the performance list.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Muscat
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Help!


Larry
hate to pick on ya but...yes you are correct in that the IDEA behind a canard is to have it stall fisrt.. and in a nice level stall where every part of the wing is going the same speed, as long as the canard stalls first you don't have to worry about wash out. but wash out is also used for stability in turns..you can tip stall a canard aircrafts wing with out stalling the canard if there is no wash out ... this is especially relevant in highly swept wings like the Cozy mk IV which also has 2.1* net washout with a 22.98* wing sweep... the tip of the largest wing (like on the Cozy) during a turn is traveling a smaller circle than the innermost tip of the smaller canard .. it is the slowest part of the aircraft .. if there is no wash out it is very possible (and probable) that at close to canard stall speeds (unless you hike up the canards incidence so much that it turns into a barn door) that the tip will slow and stall first (the wing stalling first). Wash out is mostly
critical in flying wings but it is used in every aircraft i know of in varying degrees for this reason. Including all of rutans canards. now im sure it will come up . "but the q-birds have the same size wings there for the canards tip will stall first .aaaha the canard stalls first". but you don't want just a tip to stall in any configuration ,or that one flight during your approach turn when you have over shooting winds and you rap it up to make extended runway centerline, the plane flops on its back and scares you out of your mind because you stalled the inboard half of your lifting surfaces . so we put wash out on both the canard and the wing . and that is what we have on the quickies. (overdramatic but you get the idea) .

larry severson <larry2@...> wrote:

>Washout is used to prevent tip stall as the aircraft approaches full
>stall, and thereby enhancing low speed roll stability, especially
>useful during the landing flare.
>Without it, using aileron to pick up a low wing could actually cause
>a flick roll in the opposite direction to that commanded.

I absolutely agree with your statement when referencing a
conventional A/C with the aft stab and elevator. However, the purpose
of the canard design is to ensure that the main wing NEVER stalls
over any portion of the wing.

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


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Re: noise filters

Jim Patillo
 

Dave,

Forgot to mention in my last post,I'm also using NGK resistor plugs.
They have screw on caps so check them to make sure they are not loose.
That also will cause the problem.

im P.


--- In Q-LIST@..., Dave Dugas <davedq2@...> wrote:

Hi Rene Doug Jon and Larry,

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to look at all of the
suggestions, especially the filters. What kind of spark plugs do you
use, because I believe the plugs are the source of my trouble. I've
got NGK resistor plugs installed now. Thanks again......Dave Dugas


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
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Re: noise filters

Jim Patillo
 

Hello Brother Dave,

I got some radio noise a couple of months ago and thought my
electronic ingitions were at fault. Close up reception was clear but
when I received from a distance the radio had a lot of static.
I changed out all four coils but nothing happened. Changed out my
resistor auto plugs ($16.00 total) that had about 50 hours on them
and the problem went away. Sometimes a resistor in the plug will fail
prematurely. Hope your problem is that simple! Tell your lovely wife I
said hello.

Regards,
Jim Patillo N46JP Q200 800 hours in type with twisted and warped
wings. God I hope this thing continues to fly. Jason, Larry and Peter
are scarin' the hell out of me. Maybe I should stop doing vertical
departures. What do you think?



-- In Q-LIST@..., "Jon Finley" <jon@...> wrote:

Hi Dave,

Not an answer to your question but perhaps something more for you to
consider.

I had strobe noise in my intercom and installed a Radio Shack
270-041 filter
as described by Bob Nuckolls
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf), it
solved the problem.

Jon Finley
N90MG - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 Legacy
http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru
Mid-Valley Airpark, Los Lunas, NM


From: Dave Dugas davedq2@...
Hi all,

Anyone experience engine noise with the Revmaster auto plug
conversion, and
can suggest how to eliminate it? Do noise filters work? Thanks......
.Dave
Dugas


noise filters

Dave Dugas
 

Hi Rene Doug Jon and Larry,

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to look at all of the suggestions, especially the filters. What kind of spark plugs do you use, because I believe the plugs are the source of my trouble. I've got NGK resistor plugs installed now. Thanks again......Dave Dugas


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

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Re: Help!

Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...>
 

Larry
hate to pick on ya but...yes you are correct in that the IDEA behind a canard is to have it stall fisrt.. and in a nice level stall where every part of the wing is going the same speed, as long as the canard stalls first you don’t have to worry about wash out… but wash out is also used for stability in turns….you can tip stall a canard aircrafts wing with out stalling the canard if there is no wash out ... this is especially relevant in highly swept wings like the Cozy mk IV which also has 2.1* net washout with a 22.98* wing sweep... the tip of the largest wing (like on the Cozy) during a turn is traveling a smaller circle than the innermost tip of the smaller canard .. it is the slowest part of the aircraft .. if there is no wash out it is very possible (and probable) that at close to canard stall speeds (unless you hike up the canards incidence so much that it turns into a barn door) that the tip will slow and stall first (the wing stalling first). Wash out is mostly
critical in flying wings but it is used in every aircraft i know of in varying degrees for this reason. Including all of rutans canards… now im sure it will come up … “but the q-birds have the same size wings there for the canards tip will stall first …aaaha the canard stalls first”… but you don’t want just a tip to stall in any configuration ,or that one flight during your approach turn when you have over shooting winds and you rap it up to make extended runway centerline, the plane flops on its back and scares you out of your mind because you stalled the inboard half of your lifting surfaces … so we put wash out on both the canard and the wing … and that is what we have on the quickies. (overdramatic but you get the idea) …

larry severson <larry2@...> wrote:

Washout is used to prevent tip stall as the aircraft approaches full
stall, and thereby enhancing low speed roll stability, especially
useful during the landing flare.
Without it, using aileron to pick up a low wing could actually cause
a flick roll in the opposite direction to that commanded.
I absolutely agree with your statement when referencing a
conventional A/C with the aft stab and elevator. However, the purpose
of the canard design is to ensure that the main wing NEVER stalls
over any portion of the wing.

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...






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Re: Help!

Larry Severson
 

Not to beat a dead horse but in short ...please,
no body put wash IN on your wings ... i cant
think of any aircraft ever that has ever
utilized wash in or a reason why you would …it
would be very bad … for any one building the q
and reading this don’t do it … just don’t… lol
agree

It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the
main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout.
Aero logic, NOT recommendation!

What are your reasons for considering washin for
the Q wing, just because it has inboard ailerons?

I did not recommend washin. I said that it made
more sense than washout for the main wing since
the aileron was inboard, If the wing would ever
stall. What I said was that ANY twist on the main
wing was contraindicated for a canard bird.
However, I would not change a successful design.

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: noise filters

Larry Severson
 

At 07:31 AM 9/27/2006, you wrote:

Hi all,

Anyone experience engine noise with the Revmaster auto plug conversion,
yes

and can suggest how to eliminate it?
I wrapped alum foil around all of the electrical wires from the fire wall.Noise went. Removed foil from one side. It returned.

Do noise filters work?
The one on my plane didn't.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: Help!

Larry Severson
 

Washout is used to prevent tip stall as the aircraft approaches full stall, and thereby enhancing low speed roll stability, especially useful during the landing flare.
Without it, using aileron to pick up a low wing could actually cause a flick roll in the opposite direction to that commanded.
I absolutely agree with your statement when referencing a conventional A/C with the aft stab and elevator. However, the purpose of the canard design is to ensure that the main wing NEVER stalls over any portion of the wing.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: noise filters

Jon Finley <jon@...>
 

Hi Dave,

Not an answer to your question but perhaps something more for you to
consider.

I had strobe noise in my intercom and installed a Radio Shack 270-041 filter
as described by Bob Nuckolls
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf), it
solved the problem.

Jon Finley
N90MG - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 Legacy
http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru
Mid-Valley Airpark, Los Lunas, NM


From: Dave Dugas davedq2@...
Hi all,

Anyone experience engine noise with the Revmaster auto plug conversion, and
can suggest how to eliminate it? Do noise filters work? Thanks...... .Dave
Dugas


Re: Help!

Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...>
 

lol

Bob Farnam <bfarnam@...> wrote: This discussion has gotten off track with a number of half truths and
inaccuracies. If anyone wants to read a straightforward discussion of
airfoils and wings, I suggest the following link. It is complete enough to
be useful, but not heavy reading.

http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule4.html

Bob F.
N200QK

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
larry severson
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:19 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Help!

This discussion actually belongs on the Qperformance list; however, I
will sink deeper.

Washout (washin, or any twisting of the wing) makes the wing less
effective as a lifting device, and increases drag. So, why is it
done? Simple, it allows controlled stall area on a wing. This is
important when one wants to insure that the ailerons aren't in the
stall area. Washin is used when the aileron is near the wing root. No
one does this because the moment arm provided by placing the aileron
near the wing tip allows a significantly smaller aileron to achieve
the same control effectiveness.

The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement
inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the
builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the
main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout.

The canard has a large elevator for the same reason. It's placement
relative to the CG provides a small moment arm as compared to having
the elevator well back on a horizontal stab. It also has a higher
angle of incidence than the main wing to insure that it ALWAYS stalls
first in EVERY area of flight (within the design CG range). A couple
Velocity canard planes have crashed due to flying aft of the design CG
range.

The whole idea of a canard aircraft design was to solve problems:
1. Remove the stall/spin.
2. Simplify wing construction.
3. Reduce drag.

Simply stated, any twisting of the wings is contra-indicated for a
canard aircraft, as long as the ailerons are on the main wing. The Q
would not be anywhere as efficient as it is if it had the twist
claimed! (Look at the bottom of a Gu canard or Q2 wing and look for
that twisting.)

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Re: Help!

Bob Farnam <bfarnam@...>
 

This discussion has gotten off track with a number of half truths and
inaccuracies. If anyone wants to read a straightforward discussion of
airfoils and wings, I suggest the following link. It is complete enough to
be useful, but not heavy reading.

http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule4.html

Bob F.
N200QK

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
larry severson
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:19 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Help!


This discussion actually belongs on the Qperformance list; however, I
will sink deeper.

Washout (washin, or any twisting of the wing) makes the wing less
effective as a lifting device, and increases drag. So, why is it
done? Simple, it allows controlled stall area on a wing. This is
important when one wants to insure that the ailerons aren't in the
stall area. Washin is used when the aileron is near the wing root. No
one does this because the moment arm provided by placing the aileron
near the wing tip allows a significantly smaller aileron to achieve
the same control effectiveness.

The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement
inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the
builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the
main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout.

The canard has a large elevator for the same reason. It's placement
relative to the CG provides a small moment arm as compared to having
the elevator well back on a horizontal stab. It also has a higher
angle of incidence than the main wing to insure that it ALWAYS stalls
first in EVERY area of flight (within the design CG range). A couple
Velocity canard planes have crashed due to flying aft of the design CG
range.

The whole idea of a canard aircraft design was to solve problems:
1. Remove the stall/spin.
2. Simplify wing construction.
3. Reduce drag.

Simply stated, any twisting of the wings is contra-indicated for a
canard aircraft, as long as the ailerons are on the main wing. The Q
would not be anywhere as efficient as it is if it had the twist
claimed! (Look at the bottom of a Gu canard or Q2 wing and look for
that twisting.)

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: Inspector and Instructor for Q-2

jerry kennedy <jerrykennedy2001@...>
 

--- Dave Dugas <davedq2@...> wrote:

Phil'
How far up in VT are you? I live 25 minutes
below Brattleboro. I could show you my Q2 this
weekend. Home phone is (978) 544-8638.

philmarshall05640 <phil@...> wrote:
I am buying a Q-2 from Jerry Kennedy in
Sioux Falls, SD. I am flying
out to get it Sept 20th. Is there anyone on the list
who can vouch
for Jerry's Q-2 or could come and inspect it for me?

I will also need to get at least 5 hours of dual
with an instructor
with time in a Quickie because the insurance company
insists (and it's
a good idea). I'm willing to fly with Jerry to get
comfortable with
it and fly somewhere to get instruction. I hope to
go to the fly-in on
the 23rd, but the weather may prevent it. I will be
flying it back to
Vermont in anycase.

Phil Marshall, 450 hours (SEL & glider)
Kitfox N1585F and (soon) Q-2 N214FK
Adamant, VT
phil@...
Dave
Phil was here as planed. We were able to take a
flight the weather was terible all weekend,rained
for three days. He loved the plane but he
didn't fit in the plane very good, he was too
tall in the body' he had to lay his head over to the
side to close the canopy. He had to fly home on
comercial.
---------- Jerry
Kennedy-----------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email
and get things done faster.

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Re: noise filters

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

Dave- I had a noise when the mag was on to the point that I always turned it off after takeoff and turned it on for landing, using only the electronic ignition in between. I bought auto plugs with noise filter built in and the noise went away.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Dugas
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] noise filters


Hi all,

Anyone experience engine noise with the Revmaster auto plug conversion, and can suggest how to eliminate it? Do noise filters work? Thanks.......Dave Dugas


---------------------------------
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Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...>
 

LMAO ... i gues i could just start putting math formulas up as i dont realy comunicate well with text, but thats no fun ... :)

Tri-Q1 <rryan@...> wrote: Quarky, this is the first time you have made any cents.

Ryan
--- In Q-LIST@..., Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...> wrote:

or just people are tired of hearing my 2 cents .. lol .. ONE POINT
TWENETY ONE GIGAWATS !!!! (slides the spectacles deeper in his
brow) .... im realy not that bad ... i have simply nothign better to
do with my time right now except read my e-mail and plan out building
my plane ... have to "veg" as long as i can wile i can ;) .. sorry
guys ill shut up ... lol





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Re: Help!

Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...>
 

Not to beat a dead horse but in short ...please, no body put wash IN on your wings ... i cant think of any aircraft ever that has ever utilized wash in or a reason why you would …it would be very bad … for any one building the q and reading this don’t do it … just don’t… lol

Paul Buckley <paulbuckley@...> wrote: Larry Severson wrote:-

The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement
inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the
builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the
main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout.

I don't wish to be argumentative Larry, but I don't agree with your statements.
Washout is used to prevent tip stall as the aircraft approaches full stall, and thereby enhancing low speed roll stability, especially useful during the landing flare.
Without it, using aileron to pick up a low wing could actually cause a flick roll in the opposite direction to that commanded.
The fact that the ailerons are inboard on the Q's has no influence on washout, or lack of it.
What are your reasons for considering washin for the Q wing, just because it has inboard ailerons?

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

----- Original Message -----
From: larry severson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Help!

This discussion actually belongs on the Qperformance list; however, I
will sink deeper.

Washout (washin, or any twisting of the wing) makes the wing less
effective as a lifting device, and increases drag. So, why is it
done? Simple, it allows controlled stall area on a wing. This is
important when one wants to insure that the ailerons aren't in the
stall area. Washin is used when the aileron is near the wing root. No
one does this because the moment arm provided by placing the aileron
near the wing tip allows a significantly smaller aileron to achieve
the same control effectiveness.

The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement
inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the
builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the
main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout.

The canard has a large elevator for the same reason. It's placement
relative to the CG provides a small moment arm as compared to having
the elevator well back on a horizontal stab. It also has a higher
angle of incidence than the main wing to insure that it ALWAYS stalls
first in EVERY area of flight (within the design CG range). A couple
Velocity canard planes have crashed due to flying aft of the design CG range.

The whole idea of a canard aircraft design was to solve problems:
1. Remove the stall/spin.
2. Simplify wing construction.
3. Reduce drag.

Simply stated, any twisting of the wings is contra-indicated for a
canard aircraft, as long as the ailerons are on the main wing. The Q
would not be anywhere as efficient as it is if it had the twist
claimed! (Look at the bottom of a Gu canard or Q2 wing and look for
that twisting.)

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...

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Re: noise filters

Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...>
 

Hi Dave,
I converted my dual Revmaster mag harness over to automotive wires and am using automotive plugs. I have never had any electrical noise from the system.
What sort of interferance problems are you having, is it on radio reception, transmission, or on the intercom system? Radio Shack (here "The Source") has inexpensive noise filters and they should be mounted as close to the input power to your radio or intercom as possible, but I have never tried them and don't know if they work.
Regards
Rene
Q2 C-FBWV



From: Dave Dugas davedq2@...
Hi all,

Anyone experience engine noise with the Revmaster auto plug conversion, and can suggest how to eliminate it? Do noise filters work? Thanks...... .Dave Dugas


------------ --------- --------- ---
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.


noise filters

Dave Dugas
 

Hi all,

Anyone experience engine noise with the Revmaster auto plug conversion, and can suggest how to eliminate it? Do noise filters work? Thanks.......Dave Dugas


---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Tri-Q1 <rryan@...>
 

Quarky, this is the first time you have made any cents.

Ryan
--- In Q-LIST@..., Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...> wrote:

or just people are tired of hearing my 2 cents .. lol .. ONE POINT
TWENETY ONE GIGAWATS !!!! (slides the spectacles deeper in his
brow) .... im realy not that bad ... i have simply nothign better to
do with my time right now except read my e-mail and plan out building
my plane ... have to "veg" as long as i can wile i can ;) .. sorry
guys ill shut up ... lol


Re: Help!

Paul Buckley
 

Larry Severson wrote:-

The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement
inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the
builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the
main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout.

I don't wish to be argumentative Larry, but I don't agree with your statements.
Washout is used to prevent tip stall as the aircraft approaches full stall, and thereby enhancing low speed roll stability, especially useful during the landing flare.
Without it, using aileron to pick up a low wing could actually cause a flick roll in the opposite direction to that commanded.
The fact that the ailerons are inboard on the Q's has no influence on washout, or lack of it.
What are your reasons for considering washin for the Q wing, just because it has inboard ailerons?

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

----- Original Message -----
From: larry severson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Help!


This discussion actually belongs on the Qperformance list; however, I
will sink deeper.

Washout (washin, or any twisting of the wing) makes the wing less
effective as a lifting device, and increases drag. So, why is it
done? Simple, it allows controlled stall area on a wing. This is
important when one wants to insure that the ailerons aren't in the
stall area. Washin is used when the aileron is near the wing root. No
one does this because the moment arm provided by placing the aileron
near the wing tip allows a significantly smaller aileron to achieve
the same control effectiveness.

The Q bird has relatively large ailerons because of their placement
inboard. (This was done to achieve a simple method of control for the
builder). It should be clear from this that if any twisting of the
main wing was designed for the Q, it would have been washin - NOT washout.

The canard has a large elevator for the same reason. It's placement
relative to the CG provides a small moment arm as compared to having
the elevator well back on a horizontal stab. It also has a higher
angle of incidence than the main wing to insure that it ALWAYS stalls
first in EVERY area of flight (within the design CG range). A couple
Velocity canard planes have crashed due to flying aft of the design CG range.

The whole idea of a canard aircraft design was to solve problems:
1. Remove the stall/spin.
2. Simplify wing construction.
3. Reduce drag.

Simply stated, any twisting of the wings is contra-indicated for a
canard aircraft, as long as the ailerons are on the main wing. The Q
would not be anywhere as efficient as it is if it had the twist
claimed! (Look at the bottom of a Gu canard or Q2 wing and look for
that twisting.)

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...






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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 26/09/2006