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Re: [SPAM]Re: the Official Runway Distance thread

Jon Finley <jon@...>
 

Hi Mike,

I don't usually go to full up (nose up) reflex but am close.

Given the comments lately (Mike, Phil), I think I'll try a few approaches
with down reflex (nose down) to see what happens - I've never tried that
before. I'll also do the flight angle versus pitch buck tests - again,
interesting experiment.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
Mike Dwyer
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 6:58 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [SPAM]Re: [Q-LIST] the Official Runway Distance thread


Hey Jon,
Did I read that right, you land with full up aileron reflexer?
Re: the Official Runway Distance thread

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

I have just set my fixed aelerons flush (again). Is anyone else setting
flush aelerons?

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
britmcman@...
Sent: Monday, 23 October 2006 10:57 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: the Official Runway Distance thread



Q: Is FULL down reflexor on the ailerons, on 870BM, the same aileron
position as planes without a reflexor installed?

A: No. Full down reflexor on N870BM meant that the trailing edges of the
ailerons were about 3/8" up above the main wing.

Phil
Fuel in foam

Bill <bilfli1@...>
 

I'm installing a belly board in my Q2 and I discovered some fuel in the foam while trimming the foam away. I got most of the foam out that was soaked in fuel but there is more where I didn't trim away. Has anyone else had this problem?
thing to consider: my airplane has been sitting for about 15 years without fuel in it. I don't think it has a leak, but I'm not sure now.
Any insight/opinion is appreciated.

Bill McCaleb
Tucson, AZ
Re: the Official Runway Distance thread

britmcman99
 

You wrote:

objective is to get the tailwheel down early and load it with aft elevator
and a stalled canard.

Peter. The elevator is at the wrong end of the craft to make the tail go
down. It has no effect on the downward force applied to the tail. This is
going to turn into a physics class and for some minute degree of force
differences there might be some small amount argued by some.

You are doing something right since you are flying in that Jabiru craft. I
can't knock success, but I still get a since that you absolutely have a
closed mind to the whole 6-pack contributions. In N870BM there was not any reflex
setting that made the aircraft dangerous to fly. Aileron authority was
positive regardless of setting. It just made a lot more things possible and it
definitely helped stick the tail wheel during landing rollout. Your comment
about holding elevator makes me think that your sparrow strainer setting might
be a factor.

How many flight hours do you have on that Jab to-date?

Cheers,

Phil
Re: "Exponential" differential via mechanics

quickieaircraft
 

Just remember that the torque you can apply will vary
inversely with the displacement ratio--not that your
feet are torque-limited.

Imraan
UAV systems engineer and pilot in Washington DC
still looking for Q2/Q200

--- "David J. Gall" <David@...> wrote:

Bob,

Larry Hamm's suggestion is good but it requires
significant angular
displacement of the belcrank to get any substantial
differential.

Consider this alternative: Make your tailcone
belcrank in the shape of the
letter 'K' with the angled legs pointing forward.
The rudder pedal cables
connect to the angled legs, but the rudder and
tailwheel cables connect to
the straight leg. This gives a differential since
the angular displacement
of the belcrank is increased for any given linear
displacement of the cable
the more the angled belcrank leg moves forward in
its arc [d-theta/d-x goes
as 1/cos(theta)].

Similarly, move the cable attachment points on the
rudder pedals aft of the
plane of the rudder pedal pivot so that as the
rudder pedal is pressed
forward, the attachment point arm becomes more
perpendicular to the line of
travel of the cable.

Either of these geometries will induce a
differential movement in the
belcrank; both together will give even more
differential.

The resulting angular differential can be amplified
or reduced by varying
the ratio between the length of the angled legs of
the belcrank and the
effective lengths of the rudder pedal arms (and the
desired throw of the
pedals forward of neutral). The ratio of the length
of the angled legs of
the belcrank to the straight legs and, finally, to
the length of the rudder
and tailwheel belhorns will control the total angle
of the rudder and
tailwheel deflections with rudder pedal
displacement.


David J. Gall
P.S. Larry's suggestion does not have to be
fabricated as an oval or
ellipse; a simple diamond or even a rectangle will
work.

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@...
[mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Bob Farnam
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 10:08 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Taxiing before first flight.
(long editorial)

My ratio is not as much as I would like, but is
limited by my
own requirement that I be able to reach the unlock
detent on
the full swivelling tailwheel at full rudder. This
so I can
pivot around a wheel on the ground.
The result is that my airplane is less sensitive
than the
original design - enough that I can fairly easily
steer it
straight at takeoff speed, but still sensitive. I
would
really like to have what the RC guys refer to as
"exponential" control, where the response is low
in the
center part of the travel, but increases at full
rudder
input. Easy to do with an RC transmitter which has
it
builtin, but I haven't yet figured out a simple
and durable
mechanical way to make it happen. Anyone have a
sudden flash
of insight?

Bob F
EAA Flight Advisor

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
"Exponential" differential via mechanics

David J. Gall
 

Bob,

Larry Hamm's suggestion is good but it requires significant angular
displacement of the belcrank to get any substantial differential.

Consider this alternative: Make your tailcone belcrank in the shape of the
letter 'K' with the angled legs pointing forward. The rudder pedal cables
connect to the angled legs, but the rudder and tailwheel cables connect to
the straight leg. This gives a differential since the angular displacement
of the belcrank is increased for any given linear displacement of the cable
the more the angled belcrank leg moves forward in its arc [d-theta/d-x goes
as 1/cos(theta)].

Similarly, move the cable attachment points on the rudder pedals aft of the
plane of the rudder pedal pivot so that as the rudder pedal is pressed
forward, the attachment point arm becomes more perpendicular to the line of
travel of the cable.

Either of these geometries will induce a differential movement in the
belcrank; both together will give even more differential.

The resulting angular differential can be amplified or reduced by varying
the ratio between the length of the angled legs of the belcrank and the
effective lengths of the rudder pedal arms (and the desired throw of the
pedals forward of neutral). The ratio of the length of the angled legs of
the belcrank to the straight legs and, finally, to the length of the rudder
and tailwheel belhorns will control the total angle of the rudder and
tailwheel deflections with rudder pedal displacement.


David J. Gall
P.S. Larry's suggestion does not have to be fabricated as an oval or
ellipse; a simple diamond or even a rectangle will work.

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Bob Farnam
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 10:08 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Taxiing before first flight. (long editorial)

My ratio is not as much as I would like, but is limited by my
own requirement that I be able to reach the unlock detent on
the full swivelling tailwheel at full rudder. This so I can
pivot around a wheel on the ground.
The result is that my airplane is less sensitive than the
original design - enough that I can fairly easily steer it
straight at takeoff speed, but still sensitive. I would
really like to have what the RC guys refer to as
"exponential" control, where the response is low in the
center part of the travel, but increases at full rudder
input. Easy to do with an RC transmitter which has it
builtin, but I haven't yet figured out a simple and durable
mechanical way to make it happen. Anyone have a sudden flash
of insight?

Bob F
EAA Flight Advisor
Re: the Official Runway Distance thread

britmcman99
 

Peter:

Do you mean to say that you have a unibody Q2 with no split aft of the main
wing? How do you parallel park at the grocery store? :')

I am beginning to realize why you have so much resistance to this mod. You
don't have access to the work site. I liked being able to pitch the nose
down for approach using the reflexor. I can't tell you what reflexor setting
was best for fastest cruise, but having the reflexor makes the plane tuneable
and since N870BM has posted some of the fastest speeds on record, I can't say
that the reflexor system did any harm. Were you able to install the reflexor
mod, you could also install the Jim Bob 6 pack bell crank and you would
probably not regret having done them.

You write that the Q flies faster and also flares better for landing with
the ailerons up. How can it be that the plane flies faster with the ailerons
up, while also, the plane flares better with ailerons up? I think you might
be tricking yourself into believing that both conditions exist with your
present fixed ailerons high condition. In my experience I had no trouble with
landing reflexor full down (nose down/tail high). I always had sufficient
elevator authority to control pitch attitude so that tail wheel landed first and
able to hold the canard off the deck till it settled on. At that point did I
pull full reflexors up to kill any aspirations the main wing had for flight
and to encourage tail wheel authority.

I am really happy to read about your progress with the Jabiru engine. this
could soon become a popular choice for many of the existing Q2s now powered
by Revmaster 2100s.

Cheers,

Phil
Re: quickie web site

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

Trust me Darrell, you have one username. Please email me off list at HawkiDoug@...

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] quickie web site


Doug, I have two user names, The correct one is written down with the new
password. I tried them both and neither worked. Thanks Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Humble" <hawkidoug@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] quickie web site

> Darrell- try throwing the first index card out before you write the new
> password down on the new index card. Should work fine then.
>
> Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
> A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
> Omaha NE
> N25974
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Darrell Daniels
> To: Q-LIST@...
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:13 AM
> Subject: [Q-LIST] quickie web site
>
>
> I was wondering if anyone but me had trouble with logging onto our web
> site.
> If I do not use the members only section for a while I cannot get in
> without
> getting a new password. I write it down correctly on a index card so I
> will
> not forget it and still I am told it is invalid . Any ideas. Thanks
> Darrell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Re: the Official Runway Distance thread

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Phil I have not fitted a reflexor because I think I would need to cut the
hull for access to make it. But it seems to me that the only reason to have
a reflexor is so that you can improve visibility as in your case on the
final approach. Otherwise the Q flies faster and also flares better for
landing with the aelerons up.

I have been working with aelerons fixed up 3/8" and suffer a slight
visibility issue on late final and flare but flare and cruise are optimum
with the fixed setting.

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
britmcman@...
Sent: Monday, 23 October 2006 4:31 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] the Official Runway Distance thread



870BM had good elevator authority on landing with full down reflexor (Nose
down / tail high - main wing highest lift factor configuration). This gave
best view of runway during approach. Landing was tail wheel first with
elevator controlling attitude. Upon canard touchdown I would pull full up
reflex
(reflex control on right hand).

With this configuration, I suspect the plane could fly at its slowest since
both reflexed ailerons and the elevators presented a high lift wind
configuration. Once on the deck, the switched reflexor assures main wing
won't fly
and tail wheel authority is better assured.

Phil Lankford
Re: the Official Runway Distance thread

Tri-Q1 <rryan@...>
 

Phil,

Is FULL down reflexor on the ailerons, on 870BM, the same aileron
position as planes without a reflexor installed?

Ryan

--- In Q-LIST@..., britmcman@... wrote:

870BM had good elevator authority on landing with full down
reflexor (Nose down / tail high - main wing highest lift factor
configuration). This gave best view of runway during approach.
Landing was tail wheel first with elevator controlling attitude.


Upon canard touchdown I would pull full up reflex
(reflex control on right hand).

With this configuration, I suspect the plane could fly at its
slowest since
both reflexed ailerons and the elevators presented a high lift
wind
configuration. Once on the deck, the switched reflexor assures
main wing won't fly
and tail wheel authority is better assured.

Phil Lankford


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: the Official Runway Distance thread

britmcman99
 

Q: Is FULL down reflexor on the ailerons, on 870BM, the same aileron
position as planes without a reflexor installed?

A: No. Full down reflexor on N870BM meant that the trailing edges of the
ailerons were about 3/8" up above the main wing.

Phil
Re: quickie web site

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

I am having trouble with Yahoo. A lot of my messages are found in the
archive but they are not being broadcast. I confirmed it is a Yahoo problem
not my ISP. Also I cannot send multiple messages out from another Yahoo
group and the site is loaded with crap popups. Someone let the nerds loose
in there. Is there another alternative to Yahoo Groups that we could check
out?

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Monday, 23 October 2006 12:14 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] quickie web site



I was wondering if anyone but me had trouble with logging onto our web site.

If I do not use the members only section for a while I cannot get in without

getting a new password. I write it down correctly on a index card so I will
not forget it and still I am told it is invalid . Any ideas. Thanks
Darrell
Re: quickie web site

Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

Doug, I have two user names, The correct one is written down with the new password. I tried them both and neither worked. Thanks Darrell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Humble" <hawkidoug@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] quickie web site


Darrell- try throwing the first index card out before you write the new password down on the new index card. Should work fine then.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974
----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:13 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] quickie web site


I was wondering if anyone but me had trouble with logging onto our web site.
If I do not use the members only section for a while I cannot get in without
getting a new password. I write it down correctly on a index card so I will
not forget it and still I am told it is invalid . Any ideas. Thanks
Darrell








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: the Official Runway Distance thread

Mike Dwyer <mdwyer@...>
 

Hey Sam,
Have you posted your landing distances using that method? I searched the thread any didn't see the info. I'd also be curious what your best landing distance would be with and without the speed brake. This would help us understand how important it is (maybe I'll install one some day).
Happy Flyin,
Mike Q200



Sam Hoskins wrote:

I also land with full up reflexor. In fact, when I'm on downwind, abeam the
numbers, I pull power to 1,500 RPM, drop the speed brake, then set the
reflexor to full up and leave it there. I often land tail wheel first.
This is the scenario I use to get it slowed down the best.

Then I use my finger brakes and my unmodified tail wheel and the small
rudder to keep it on the center line.

I guess I'm just kind of contrary. Must be lucky too.

Sam Hoskins 1,600 hrs. (probably that many landings also)

Murphysboro, IL


_____
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Mike Dwyer
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:58 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] the Official Runway Distance thread


Hey Jon,
Did I read that right, you land with full up aileron reflexer? This makes you need more speed to three point it cause the tail will be low I believe.... An experiment you could try would be to get a level in your plane that reads 0 degrees pitch on the ground (your landing attitude). Go up a few thousand feet. Set the reflexer to neutral and see what speed you get when the level is 0. Then set the reflexer up and see what speed it takes to get a 0 degrees. I bet the speed is much higher with the reflexer up. Also, maybe your doing high sink rate landings. I find that if I'm sinking fast then I can run out of elevator in the flare so I use a little power to stop the sink rate. Try using some power and keep the sink rate down, then chop the power over the numbers.

Another way to think of this is the reflexer reduces the lift on the rear wing so you've got to go forward on the elevator to maintain a balance. You've reduced lift overall so the stall speed has to be higher. Just my opinion...

Here's my numbers N3QP

1. Q200 Taildragger - Cont 0-200 unmodified
2. Marge Warnkee 2 blade 58 Dia 64 pitch?
3. Reflexor - NO belly board. Always shoot for a three-point touchdown
attitude on base/final (ailerons reflexed neutral). Use the reflexer full up
to cruise faster (4mph) and to kill lift just after touchdown.
4. Typically <1100 lbs
5. Dry, asphalt/concrete
6. Aft
7. 85MPH indicated single place, 90 mph indicated two place over the
numbers. Sea level 59F takeoff single place 700', best landing 1600' Two place with
full full and baggage I'm happy with 3000' to land. Narrowest runway I've
ever landed on 60'. Chicken factor 10, I want to be an old pilot...

Jon Finley wrote:

1. Q2(GU-Taildragger) - Subaru EJ-22
2. Warp Drive 3 blade (about 13 degrees)
3. Reflexor - NO belly board - No numbers on the Reflexor but always shoot
for a three-point touchdown attitude on base/final (which is ailerons
reflexed UP (tail down))
4. Typically 1050-1100 lbs - Occasionally more
5. Dry, asphalt/concrete
6. Aft
7. Below...

My home airport is now E98 which has a 4340' x 37' runway at 4830' MSL. I
prefer to think of it as a 4350' x 40'.... ;-) Most of my flying here has
been at 7000-8000' density altitudes. I've got some things to test to see
if I screwed up my airplane (during the move here) but currently, I have
to

be at 100mph all the way to touchdown or I am out of elevator. That speed
plus focus on keeping it on the runway result in using the WHOLE runway.
Takeoff only requires about 2500' (a guess).

Previous home base (FCM) had 3900x75 at 900' MSL. Same setup, DA of around
1500-2000'. Had to be over the numbers at 90 mph and generally touched
down

around 85 mph. Typically used about 1500' on TO. Landings required about
2500'. If anything was amiss, I could chew up the whole length without a
second thought.

I NEVER do ANYTHING but fly the airplane until I am stopped (as in not
moving at all).

Jon Finley
N90MG - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 Legacy
http://www.finleywe <http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru> b.net/Q2Subaru
Mid-Valley Airpark, Los Lunas, NM

P.S. I tried to land on a 2500' runway a couple of times in MN (no wind)
and

could never get myself to commit as the end of the runway always appeared
to

approaching must too fast.


-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com]On Behalf
Of

quickieaircraft
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 7:14 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] the Official Runway Distance thread


I've been looking through the archives trying to figure out what a
reasonable expectation for a minimum TO/LD distance is for these
planes. I have encountered everything from 700ft (Mike!) to 3500
ft. If you want, post the distance that YOU takeoff/land in.

Please also include:
1)if you've got a tri (you might be able to hit the brakes harder) or
taildragger
2) Your prop--unless you like to land deadstick
3) any mods, esp the reflexor (and its setting) or VGs.
4) GVW during the TO/LD
5) field condition: wet, asphalt, grass?
6) whether you're pulling the stick aft, neutral, or fwd.
7) the airspeed @which you flare, hit the brakes, call your wife, and
do other important things.


Hopefully, we'll be able to identify what it is that those short
landing guys are doing right. But I've got a personal motivation
too. There's an airport by my house (CGS) that's 2607 x60ft and
could represent a high pucker factor.









Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: quickie web site

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

Darrell - I checked the log records and you are not using the right username, so the password won't be right either.

Email me at HawkiDoug@... for help.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:13 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] quickie web site


I was wondering if anyone but me had trouble with logging onto our web site.
If I do not use the members only section for a while I cannot get in without
getting a new password. I write it down correctly on a index card so I will
not forget it and still I am told it is invalid . Any ideas. Thanks
Darrell
Re: quickie web site

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

Darrell- try throwing the first index card out before you write the new password down on the new index card. Should work fine then.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:13 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] quickie web site


I was wondering if anyone but me had trouble with logging onto our web site.
If I do not use the members only section for a while I cannot get in without
getting a new password. I write it down correctly on a index card so I will
not forget it and still I am told it is invalid . Any ideas. Thanks
Darrell
Re: the Official Runway Distance thread

britmcman99
 

870BM had good elevator authority on landing with full down reflexor (Nose
down / tail high - main wing highest lift factor configuration). This gave
best view of runway during approach. Landing was tail wheel first with
elevator controlling attitude. Upon canard touchdown I would pull full up reflex
(reflex control on right hand).

With this configuration, I suspect the plane could fly at its slowest since
both reflexed ailerons and the elevators presented a high lift wind
configuration. Once on the deck, the switched reflexor assures main wing won't fly
and tail wheel authority is better assured.

Phil Lankford
Re: quickie web site

Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

I have trouble getting in when using Firefox. When I switch to Internet
Explorer it works fine.

Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:14 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] quickie web site



I was wondering if anyone but me had trouble with logging onto our web site.

If I do not use the members only section for a while I cannot get in without

getting a new password. I write it down correctly on a index card so I will
not forget it and still I am told it is invalid . Any ideas. Thanks
Darrell
quickie web site

Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

I was wondering if anyone but me had trouble with logging onto our web site. If I do not use the members only section for a while I cannot get in without getting a new password. I write it down correctly on a index card so I will not forget it and still I am told it is invalid . Any ideas. Thanks Darrell
Re: the Official Runway Distance thread

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Sam

To me it also makes sense to have the aelerons up for the flare so as to get
the tailwheel down and hold it down as early as possible. The aim I think is
not to three point it but get the tailwheel down first then stall the
canard. Once it is stalled the rest is easier.

Peter





_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Sam Hoskins
Sent: Sunday, 22 October 2006 1:54 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] the Official Runway Distance thread



I also land with full up reflexor. In fact, when I'm on downwind, abeam the
numbers, I pull power to 1,500 RPM, drop the speed brake, then set the
reflexor to full up and leave it there. I often land tail wheel first.
This is the scenario I use to get it slowed down the best.

Then I use my finger brakes and my unmodified tail wheel and the small
rudder to keep it on the center line.

I guess I'm just kind of contrary. Must be lucky too.

Sam Hoskins 1,600 hrs. (probably that many landings also)

Murphysboro, IL

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Mike Dwyer
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:58 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] the Official Runway Distance thread

Hey Jon,
Did I read that right, you land with full up aileron reflexer? This
makes you need more speed to three point it cause the tail will be low I
believe.... An experiment you could try would be to get a level in your
plane that reads 0 degrees pitch on the ground (your landing attitude).
Go up a few thousand feet. Set the reflexer to neutral and see what
speed you get when the level is 0. Then set the reflexer up and see
what speed it takes to get a 0 degrees. I bet the speed is much higher
with the reflexer up. Also, maybe your doing high sink rate landings.
I find that if I'm sinking fast then I can run out of elevator in the
flare so I use a little power to stop the sink rate. Try using some
power and keep the sink rate down, then chop the power over the numbers.

Another way to think of this is the reflexer reduces the lift on the
rear wing so you've got to go forward on the elevator to maintain a
balance. You've reduced lift overall so the stall speed has to be
higher. Just my opinion...

Here's my numbers N3QP

1. Q200 Taildragger - Cont 0-200 unmodified
2. Marge Warnkee 2 blade 58 Dia 64 pitch?
3. Reflexor - NO belly board. Always shoot for a three-point touchdown
attitude on base/final (ailerons reflexed neutral). Use the reflexer full up
to cruise faster (4mph) and to kill lift just after touchdown.
4. Typically <1100 lbs
5. Dry, asphalt/concrete
6. Aft
7. 85MPH indicated single place, 90 mph indicated two place over the
numbers.
Sea level 59F takeoff single place 700', best landing 1600' Two place with
full full and baggage I'm happy with 3000' to land. Narrowest runway I've
ever landed on 60'. Chicken factor 10, I want to be an old pilot...

Jon Finley wrote:
1. Q2(GU-Taildragger) - Subaru EJ-22
2. Warp Drive 3 blade (about 13 degrees)
3. Reflexor - NO belly board - No numbers on the Reflexor but always shoot
for a three-point touchdown attitude on base/final (which is ailerons
reflexed UP (tail down))
4. Typically 1050-1100 lbs - Occasionally more
5. Dry, asphalt/concrete
6. Aft
7. Below...

My home airport is now E98 which has a 4340' x 37' runway at 4830' MSL. I
prefer to think of it as a 4350' x 40'.... ;-) Most of my flying here has
been at 7000-8000' density altitudes. I've got some things to test to see
if I screwed up my airplane (during the move here) but currently, I have
to
be at 100mph all the way to touchdown or I am out of elevator. That speed
plus focus on keeping it on the runway result in using the WHOLE runway.
Takeoff only requires about 2500' (a guess).

Previous home base (FCM) had 3900x75 at 900' MSL. Same setup, DA of around
1500-2000'. Had to be over the numbers at 90 mph and generally touched
down
around 85 mph. Typically used about 1500' on TO. Landings required about
2500'. If anything was amiss, I could chew up the whole length without a
second thought.

I NEVER do ANYTHING but fly the airplane until I am stopped (as in not
moving at all).

Jon Finley
N90MG - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 Legacy
http://www.finleywe <http://www.finleywe
<http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru> b.net/Q2Subaru> b.net/Q2Subaru
Mid-Valley Airpark, Los Lunas, NM

P.S. I tried to land on a 2500' runway a couple of times in MN (no wind)
and
could never get myself to commit as the end of the runway always appeared
to
approaching must too fast.


-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com]On Behalf
Of
quickieaircraft
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 7:14 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] the Official Runway Distance thread


I've been looking through the archives trying to figure out what a
reasonable expectation for a minimum TO/LD distance is for these
planes. I have encountered everything from 700ft (Mike!) to 3500
ft. If you want, post the distance that YOU takeoff/land in.

Please also include:
1)if you've got a tri (you might be able to hit the brakes harder) or
taildragger
2) Your prop--unless you like to land deadstick
3) any mods, esp the reflexor (and its setting) or VGs.
4) GVW during the TO/LD
5) field condition: wet, asphalt, grass?
6) whether you're pulling the stick aft, neutral, or fwd.
7) the airspeed @which you flare, hit the brakes, call your wife, and
do other important things.


Hopefully, we'll be able to identify what it is that those short
landing guys are doing right. But I've got a personal motivation
too. There's an airport by my house (CGS) that's 2607 x60ft and
could represent a high pucker factor.
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