Date   

Re: The difficulty of high-lift devices for tandem wing aircraft (long)

Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

Hi Jeff,

By all means, build your 1/3 scale R/C model. We will love to see it.

Bring it to Sullivan or Livermore and show us.

In the mean time, let us know where you are located and maybe someone can
invite you over to see a Q in progress - or flying.

Sam Hoskins

http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/





_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
slottedflaps
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 12:07 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] The difficulty of high-lift devices for tandem wing
aircraft (long)



Good evening Quickie group,

I'm a third year mechanical engineering student who wants a corvair
powered Q2 but I'm unwilling to fly an aircraft that lands at 90mph
with a passenger. The comments I've read regarding high landing
speeds of these aircraft relate to loss of elevator effectiveness
and / or canard stall on final approach, the only remedy being to add
a few units to the target landing speed.

Q200s appear to have a CG change over the original 2100D powered
version, and my experimentation with free flight tandem wing models
showed an increase in minimum speed with forward CG.

In a nutshell, I'm pondering a mechanism for the LS1 canard which
would produce a fowler flap action for the elevators with a slot to
recharge the boundary layer at the corner produced by a downward
deflected elevator.

So I've been looking through reports of deep stall vs. center of
pressure relative to CG; it goes without saying that adding lift to
the front wing only will disturb the safe stalling characteristics of
the original design. However, the stall of the rear wing appears to
be AOA dependent, and a slotted flap on the front wing might achieve
its max. lift at a similar AOA as the plain flap original. The belly
board could be integrated with the fowler flaps to move in the same
motion.

Anyhow, the Q2 seems to be a very fast aircraft with 100ish HP and an
efficient cruise prop, but the landing speed is a seriously high
price of admission to most people, myself included. I don't want to
impact the ground at 80mph if I have an engine failure.

My plans are to build a 1/3 scale Q2 and experiment with a scale LS1
canard and fowler type flaps, and find where the CG needs to be to be
safe. Getting enough down elevator could be be a challenge though.

Anyhow, nice to meet you, I'd buy Henry Hurd's project if I was out
of school. :)

-Jeff Quinn





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http://www.quickiebuilders.org






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Re: 40.3

Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>
 

Dave & Suzie,

Congratulations on successfully completing your testing program. Now you can expand your fun even further. Joseph


Re: The difficulty of high-lift devices for tandem wing aircraft (lo...

britmcman99
 

You wrote,"I don't want to impact the ground at 80mph if I have an engine
failure."

It's really not that bad if you can manage to plan your impact in a somewhat
parallel to the earth fashion, and can avoid running into obstacles like
light poles and fences. This is why I plan to install a "HELP ME, MR. WISARD!
I DON'T WANT TO BE A Q-200 PILOT" button on the panel of my next Q-200.

Regards,

Crash


Re: 40.3

stanhopeairport <airport@...>
 

Dave, well done. Look forward to seeing you at Oshkosh.
John Packer

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
shoskins@...
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 10:12 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] 40.3

Dave, that is just great. I'm so glad all was successful.

You did it all the right way. You gathered information, you sought
qualified
advice, you developed a solid plan and you executed it. I welcome another
Quickie role model.

Fly a lot. Then when you get 300 hours on it, you can switch from the
Revmaster to the O-200!

Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com










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Re: 40.3

Bob Farnam <bfarnam@...>
 

Congratulations, Dave. It's not too early to start planning your trip to
Livermore next year. Happy flying!
Bob F.
N200QK
EAA Flight Advisor

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
Dave
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 6:33 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] 40.3


Yesterday around sunset I touched down in my Tri-Q2 after an hour and a
half of stability and climb/glide data collection at gross weight and my
total flight hours are 40.3. I am finally ready to sign off the logbook
for the completion of the FAA phase one restrictions.

I have nothing but the deepest admiration and respect for those who have
contributed so much to help make this not only possible but safe and
successful. I will always be in your debt.

Thank you. Thank you all for your help with this lifelong goal.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 825DR 40.3 hrs




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Re: 40.3

Sam Kittle
 

Congratulations Dave,

This must be quite a feeling, I am sure we will all want to hear about the first ride for Susie.

Regards,
Sam

Dave wrote:

Yesterday around sunset I touched down in my Tri-Q2 after an hour and a
half of stability and climb/glide data collection at gross weight and my
total flight hours are 40.3. I am finally ready to sign off the logbook
for the completion of the FAA phase one restrictions.

I have nothing but the deepest admiration and respect for those who have
contributed so much to help make this not only possible but safe and
successful. I will always be in your debt.

Thank you. Thank you all for your help with this lifelong goal.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 825DR 40.3 hrs





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links









Accident report N1711Q

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

It has been brought to my attention that a Q200 owned by Harry Scarfe had an accident in the last few days. The FAA report indicates the aircraft hit a PAPI light and flipped over resulting in injuries but no fatalities. The aircraft had substantial damage. Harry is from St. Helena Is. SC.

Anyone one else have more info.?

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974


Re: Radio antenna

Paul Spackman
 

Bruce,

I am using a modified Whiteside antenna (Q-Talk #42 P.4). I checked
it with a VSWR meter and made some change to the balum but did not
keep any notes, darn. Were you thinking of the transponter antenna
that I purchased? I did not test that but it is working great.

Paul Spackman

--- In Q-LIST@..., "jcrain2@j..." <jcrain2@j...> wrote:

Paul Spackman,
My friend Gene has a Lancair with a ribbon antenna in the vertical
(for comm). I don't know if it is just like yours so bare with me
(no don't take off your clothes not that kind of bare).
Gene says that when checked with a Fluke meter it tested as closed
so it was shorted. Bevan Rabel in Wichita says that sometimes the
ribbon antennas show a closed circuit. Did yours show closed when
you tested it upon installation.

Bruce Crain
N96BJ


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Re: The difficulty of high-lift devices for tandem wing aircraft (long)

Leon - C <leon@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "slottedflaps" <quinnj@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 11:06 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] The difficulty of high-lift devices for tandem wing
aircraft (long)


Good evening Quickie group,

I'm a third year mechanical engineering student who wants a corvair
powered Q2 but I'm unwilling to fly an aircraft that lands at 90mph
with a passenger.
You are probably going to find that the general opinion of this group is
that you should.............Build/look for another plane!

We have been over this ground before and it kind of resulted in forming a
second group "Q-performance" to hash out modifications like this. I'm of
the camp that believes there is room for improvement in this area, but do
agree with most of the others here that if you want to fly something like a
Q in a reasonable amount of time stick to the plans and other proven
modifications.

Ask your question again on the Q-performance board and I think you will get
some feed back.
=======================
Leon McAtee
Building something like a Q-1


Re: 40.3

shoskins@...
 

Dave, that is just great. I'm so glad all was successful.

You did it all the right way. You gathered information, you sought qualified
advice, you developed a solid plan and you executed it. I welcome another
Quickie role model.

Fly a lot. Then when you get 300 hours on it, you can switch from the
Revmaster to the O-200!

Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com


Re: 40.3

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

Way to go Dave! When are you flying to Omaha for a visit?

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 8:33 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] 40.3


Yesterday around sunset I touched down in my Tri-Q2 after an hour and a
half of stability and climb/glide data collection at gross weight and my
total flight hours are 40.3. I am finally ready to sign off the logbook
for the completion of the FAA phase one restrictions.

I have nothing but the deepest admiration and respect for those who have
contributed so much to help make this not only possible but safe and
successful. I will always be in your debt.

Thank you. Thank you all for your help with this lifelong goal.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 825DR 40.3 hrs





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: 40.3

Mark/Pat Pearson/Pound <wlkabout@...>
 

Congratulations Dave. What an achievement!!!

Mark

Dave wrote:

Yesterday around sunset I touched down in my Tri-Q2 after an hour and a
half of stability and climb/glide data collection at gross weight and my
total flight hours are 40.3. I am finally ready to sign off the logbook
for the completion of the FAA phase one restrictions.

I have nothing but the deepest admiration and respect for those who have
contributed so much to help make this not only possible but safe and
successful. I will always be in your debt.

Thank you. Thank you all for your help with this lifelong goal.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 825DR 40.3 hrs


Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links




40.3

Dave <dave@...>
 

Yesterday around sunset I touched down in my Tri-Q2 after an hour and a
half of stability and climb/glide data collection at gross weight and my
total flight hours are 40.3. I am finally ready to sign off the logbook
for the completion of the FAA phase one restrictions.

I have nothing but the deepest admiration and respect for those who have
contributed so much to help make this not only possible but safe and
successful. I will always be in your debt.

Thank you. Thank you all for your help with this lifelong goal.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 825DR 40.3 hrs


The difficulty of high-lift devices for tandem wing aircraft (long)

slottedflaps <quinnj@...>
 

Good evening Quickie group,

I'm a third year mechanical engineering student who wants a corvair
powered Q2 but I'm unwilling to fly an aircraft that lands at 90mph
with a passenger. The comments I've read regarding high landing
speeds of these aircraft relate to loss of elevator effectiveness
and / or canard stall on final approach, the only remedy being to add
a few units to the target landing speed.

Q200s appear to have a CG change over the original 2100D powered
version, and my experimentation with free flight tandem wing models
showed an increase in minimum speed with forward CG.

In a nutshell, I'm pondering a mechanism for the LS1 canard which
would produce a fowler flap action for the elevators with a slot to
recharge the boundary layer at the corner produced by a downward
deflected elevator.

So I've been looking through reports of deep stall vs. center of
pressure relative to CG; it goes without saying that adding lift to
the front wing only will disturb the safe stalling characteristics of
the original design. However, the stall of the rear wing appears to
be AOA dependent, and a slotted flap on the front wing might achieve
its max. lift at a similar AOA as the plain flap original. The belly
board could be integrated with the fowler flaps to move in the same
motion.

Anyhow, the Q2 seems to be a very fast aircraft with 100ish HP and an
efficient cruise prop, but the landing speed is a seriously high
price of admission to most people, myself included. I don't want to
impact the ground at 80mph if I have an engine failure.

My plans are to build a 1/3 scale Q2 and experiment with a scale LS1
canard and fowler type flaps, and find where the CG needs to be to be
safe. Getting enough down elevator could be be a challenge though.

Anyhow, nice to meet you, I'd buy Henry Hurd's project if I was out
of school. :)

-Jeff Quinn


Radio antenna

Bruce Crain
 

Paul Spackman,
My friend Gene has a Lancair with a ribbon antenna in the vertical (for comm). I don't know if it is just like yours so bare with me (no don't take off your clothes not that kind of bare).
Gene says that when checked with a Fluke meter it tested as closed so it was shorted. Bevan Rabel in Wichita says that sometimes the ribbon antennas show a closed circuit. Did yours show closed when you tested it upon installation.

Bruce Crain
N96BJ


___________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage.
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Re: Q-Talk

Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>
 

2 gallons... Thanks John,
Joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: John Loram
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 3:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Q-Talk


Joseph; I've did the tail cone and top-side of my Q2 with one gallon,
and expect to finish the bottom side with another gallon. However; I
didn't use the approach advocated by Jerry's article. I expect I would
have use 50% more (and save a lot of time) had I used Jerry's approach.

-john-
p.s. Jerry's approach is describe in much greater detail in this
article: http://curedcomposites.netfirms.com/index.html
(scan down toward the bottom of the page.)

________________________________

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of Joseph Snow
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 9:02 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Q-Talk


Hello all,

Just finished reading the current issue of Q-Talk. The finishing
article is very timely for me. Does anyone know about how much of the
West System epoxy (how many gallons) is needed to finish a Q2. I can
estimate the microballons from Jerry's formula.

Thanks to Jerry Marstall for a great article. I will be eagerly waiting
for the next installment.

Joseph





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http://www.quickiebuilders.org






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Re: Q-Talk

Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>
 

Thanks Jerry. I will put in my order for the epoxy tomorrow.

Joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Marstall
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Q-Talk


Joseph,
You can do the wing and canard with one gallon (assuming a relatively
smooth set of flying surfaces to begin with). While it should take you
less than a gallon to do the fuselage, cowling, flight controls, etc.,
you will find ways of using the reset of it up.
Thanks for comment on the article
Jerry

Joseph Snow wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>Just finished reading the current issue of Q-Talk. The finishing article is very timely for me. Does anyone know about how much of the West System epoxy (how many gallons) is needed to finish a Q2. I can estimate the microballons from Jerry's formula.
>
>Thanks to Jerry Marstall for a great article. I will be eagerly waiting for the next installment.
>
>Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Quickie Builders Association WEB site
>http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: rudder trim

Kerri & Mark <ksm@...>
 

Hi Team

Can anyone offer any comments on Atkins rotary and Camdon supar chargers
thay have offered me a turnkey engine single rotor for $4595.00 and $6595.00
for the fuel injected one. Any good or bad points please as its a long way
to New Zealand and if I go with this engine I have to ask all the
questions...
The other question I had was The factory tail cut mod has anybody had any
problems with it as the tail has been cut and the glass work done except for
the 9bid pads for the alloy plates

Mark Q1 S/N 0358


Re: Q-Talk

John Loram <johnl@...>
 

Joseph; I've did the tail cone and top-side of my Q2 with one gallon,
and expect to finish the bottom side with another gallon. However; I
didn't use the approach advocated by Jerry's article. I expect I would
have use 50% more (and save a lot of time) had I used Jerry's approach.

-john-
p.s. Jerry's approach is describe in much greater detail in this
article: http://curedcomposites.netfirms.com/index.html
(scan down toward the bottom of the page.)

________________________________

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of Joseph Snow
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 9:02 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Q-Talk


Hello all,

Just finished reading the current issue of Q-Talk. The finishing
article is very timely for me. Does anyone know about how much of the
West System epoxy (how many gallons) is needed to finish a Q2. I can
estimate the microballons from Jerry's formula.

Thanks to Jerry Marstall for a great article. I will be eagerly waiting
for the next installment.

Joseph





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






SPONSORED LINKS
Aviation maintenance
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Aviation+maintenance&w1=Aviation+ma
intenance&w2=Aviation+maintenance+training&w3=Aviation+maintenance+schoo
ls&w4=Aviation+maintenance+schools&w5=Aviation&w6=Aviation+art&c=6&s=161
&.sig=NYqbfrCRSu-_RfVcTvi4nA> Aviation maintenance training
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iation+maintenance&w2=Aviation+maintenance+training&w3=Aviation+maintena
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Re: engine off set

Mark/Pat Pearson/Pound <wlkabout@...>
 

Marvin:
I think these are empirical questions.

Mark

pinemiser wrote:

I'm putting a more powerful engine in my q1. Does anyone know if I
need engine off-set? Do I need more rudder? Marvin


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