Date   

Re: Fuel Vent Lines

Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

James, the method of vent routing you are describing is already in the
plans. See Q-200 plans, Section II, page 2. I have used it all these years
and it works fine.

If you have to enlist an unreliable condition, such as not keeping the
header completely full during takeoff, you may be putting yourself at risk
if that condition is not met. Better to ensure your system works in all
scenarios.

I also cycle my pump. What is the point of having it on all the time when
it has excess flow capacity?

It's 16 degrees here in southern Illinois.

Sam Hoskins



_____

From: James Postma [mailto:james@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 8:10 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Peter,

Frank Follmer believed that the vent line should be terminated in the top of
the overflow pipe by extending it an inch or so into the overflow and that
this would eliminate the venting problem you describe.

He talked to Gene Sheehan about this and got him to agree with him, but I
don't know if Gene ever published a builders note about it.

Another way of dealing with the problem is to not have the header tank
completely full during take off so that the vent line will drain. My
procedure is to fill the header tank during preflight and then leave the
transfer pump off until after takeoff. I also cycle the transfer pump
during cruise and do not run it always. I use a similar procedure when
landing by filling the header tank during approach, and turning off the
transfer pump during landing.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Guys,
With respect and due humiliosity.
1. We seem to agree that fuel sometimes gets into the vent line.
2. It therefore follows that this will cause a partial vacuum in the
header tank as fuel is taken down to the carb. and this restricts the fuel
flow to the carb. If the carbs are gravity fed and no fuel bowl the effect
is an immediate loss of power .If you have a fuelbowl carb the fuel level in
the bowl will be lowered. If you pump feed the carbs, the pump will have to
work harder.Unless you run a gravity fed throttle body like Posa with no
fuel bowl , you may not be aware of the compromise to fuel supply.That does
not mean it is not happening.
3. How long before the vent line clears itself ? Will it drain down
under gravity or will it be pushed into the header under the combined effect
of air pressure and the developing vacuum in the header ? If a fuel pump is
used to draw from the header to supply the carb then the vent fuel will
probably be cleared up into the header sooner. There will be a condition
when the forces are in balance and there is no movement of this slug of
fuel.
That was enough to almost stop my Revmaster/Posa and I turned back at
250ft and managed to get around the circuit before the engine fully
recovered.
To me it makes sense to use a short 2" ,up facing vent because it will
hold less fuel and air pressure will combine with gravity to clear the vent.
The plans vent line is almost 3ft long and it can fill and gravity works
against air pressure to delay or stop the clearance.
I don't see the need to pressurise the tanks if the carbs are pump fed.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 9:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines


All,



Throughout the homebuilt world fuel related issues are the number one
cause
of accidents. Not enough fuel, poor management, contaminated, it's a
long
list. Don't make your system too complicated. Here's a little article
I
found of another guy's opinions:
http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/article/fuelsystemsforhomebuilts/fuelsy
stems.htm

The incident Lynn is referring to, happened to me and at least one other
Q-200 driver. If the fuel cap seal is compromised, or if it is left
completely off, a scary incident can follow. During run-up all seems
fine.
However, once you get into the air the hell breaks loose. Relatively
low
pressure air is delivered to the fuel tank(s) through the fuel leaking
cap
which results in a partial fuel starvation. This then follows with a
mayday
call and a dicey return to the runway.

The vent system should do two things, keep positive air pressure on the
fuel
to help deliver it to the carburetor, and to prevent overpressure while
you
are sitting in the sun.

The fix is simple. Build the vent system to the plans but build a fuel
cap
that won't come apart. There are various was of doing this, here is how
I
built mine:
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06fuelfiller.jpg
and here's a photo of my battered ram-air vent
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06speedbrake.jpg (You
can
also see a little curved tube behind the ram-air vent. This is simply a
fuel overflow drain that runs from the fuel fill area. If I overfill
the
fuel system the excess splash just runs out to the ground).

I cannot see any reason to vent the fuel tank cap with a small hole,
since
the fuel system is already vented to ram air.

You can easily test your vent system. Wrap your lips around your
ram-air
vent and simply blow hard into the tube to pressurize your system (do
not
use compressed air, you could rupture a tank). Place your thumb over
the
vent and wait about 5 seconds. Uncover the vent and you should feel
your
own breath coming back at you. If you do, your system is sealed well
enough.

Hope this helps.

Sam Hoskins, Glutton for Punishment

Murphysboro, IL



_____

From: French [mailto:LJFrench@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:36 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Sam,
As I looked in my database of Q-talk back issues, I see that fuel
related
problems is one of the top two reported problems that are statistically
significant. I also see that you wrote an article about your incident.
Did
you change anything to get at the root cause of your problem (i.e. vent)
or
did you just limit your fix to the gas cap?
LF


> I have used it all these years and it works fine.
>
> .
> Works just great.
>
> And of course, as we have discussed in the past, throw away the
original
> QAC
> plastic bottle fuel filler and get something more substantial.




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






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Re: Fuel Vent Lines

Ron <rondefly@...>
 

Hey Sam, I see you get some of that nice warm weather also.



Ron T in foggy South Lake Tahoe, CA



Ron Triano N4710P
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page8.html

_____

From: Sam Hoskins [mailto:shoskins@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 7:10 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



James, the method of vent routing you are describing is already in the
plans. See Q-200 plans, Section II, page 2. I have used it all these years
and it works fine.

If you have to enlist an unreliable condition, such as not keeping the
header completely full during takeoff, you may be putting yourself at risk
if that condition is not met. Better to ensure your system works in all
scenarios.

I also cycle my pump. What is the point of having it on all the time when
it has excess flow capacity?

It's 16 degrees here in southern Illinois.

Sam Hoskins



_____

From: James Postma [mailto:james@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 8:10 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Peter,

Frank Follmer believed that the vent line should be terminated in the top of
the overflow pipe by extending it an inch or so into the overflow and that
this would eliminate the venting problem you describe.

He talked to Gene Sheehan about this and got him to agree with him, but I
don't know if Gene ever published a builders note about it.

Another way of dealing with the problem is to not have the header tank
completely full during take off so that the vent line will drain. My
procedure is to fill the header tank during preflight and then leave the
transfer pump off until after takeoff. I also cycle the transfer pump
during cruise and do not run it always. I use a similar procedure when
landing by filling the header tank during approach, and turning off the
transfer pump during landing.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Guys,
With respect and due humiliosity.
1. We seem to agree that fuel sometimes gets into the vent line.
2. It therefore follows that this will cause a partial vacuum in the
header tank as fuel is taken down to the carb. and this restricts the fuel
flow to the carb. If the carbs are gravity fed and no fuel bowl the effect
is an immediate loss of power .If you have a fuelbowl carb the fuel level in
the bowl will be lowered. If you pump feed the carbs, the pump will have to
work harder.Unless you run a gravity fed throttle body like Posa with no
fuel bowl , you may not be aware of the compromise to fuel supply.That does
not mean it is not happening.
3. How long before the vent line clears itself ? Will it drain down
under gravity or will it be pushed into the header under the combined effect
of air pressure and the developing vacuum in the header ? If a fuel pump is
used to draw from the header to supply the carb then the vent fuel will
probably be cleared up into the header sooner. There will be a condition
when the forces are in balance and there is no movement of this slug of
fuel.
That was enough to almost stop my Revmaster/Posa and I turned back at
250ft and managed to get around the circuit before the engine fully
recovered.
To me it makes sense to use a short 2" ,up facing vent because it will
hold less fuel and air pressure will combine with gravity to clear the vent.
The plans vent line is almost 3ft long and it can fill and gravity works
against air pressure to delay or stop the clearance.
I don't see the need to pressurise the tanks if the carbs are pump fed.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 9:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines


All,



Throughout the homebuilt world fuel related issues are the number one
cause
of accidents. Not enough fuel, poor management, contaminated, it's a
long
list. Don't make your system too complicated. Here's a little article
I
found of another guy's opinions:
http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/article/fuelsystemsforhomebuilts/fuelsy
stems.htm

The incident Lynn is referring to, happened to me and at least one other
Q-200 driver. If the fuel cap seal is compromised, or if it is left
completely off, a scary incident can follow. During run-up all seems
fine.
However, once you get into the air the hell breaks loose. Relatively
low
pressure air is delivered to the fuel tank(s) through the fuel leaking
cap
which results in a partial fuel starvation. This then follows with a
mayday
call and a dicey return to the runway.

The vent system should do two things, keep positive air pressure on the
fuel
to help deliver it to the carburetor, and to prevent overpressure while
you
are sitting in the sun.

The fix is simple. Build the vent system to the plans but build a fuel
cap
that won't come apart. There are various was of doing this, here is how
I
built mine:
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06fuelfiller.jpg
and here's a photo of my battered ram-air vent
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06speedbrake.jpg (You
can
also see a little curved tube behind the ram-air vent. This is simply a
fuel overflow drain that runs from the fuel fill area. If I overfill
the
fuel system the excess splash just runs out to the ground).

I cannot see any reason to vent the fuel tank cap with a small hole,
since
the fuel system is already vented to ram air.

You can easily test your vent system. Wrap your lips around your
ram-air
vent and simply blow hard into the tube to pressurize your system (do
not
use compressed air, you could rupture a tank). Place your thumb over
the
vent and wait about 5 seconds. Uncover the vent and you should feel
your
own breath coming back at you. If you do, your system is sealed well
enough.

Hope this helps.

Sam Hoskins, Glutton for Punishment

Murphysboro, IL



_____

From: French [mailto:LJFrench@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:36 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Sam,
As I looked in my database of Q-talk back issues, I see that fuel
related
problems is one of the top two reported problems that are statistically
significant. I also see that you wrote an article about your incident.
Did
you change anything to get at the root cause of your problem (i.e. vent)
or
did you just limit your fix to the gas cap?
LF


> I have used it all these years and it works fine.
>
> .
> Works just great.
>
> And of course, as we have discussed in the past, throw away the
original
> QAC
> plastic bottle fuel filler and get something more substantial.




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






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ADVERTISEMENT





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Re: starter

James Postma <james@...>
 

Rich,

A Subaru starter works well on the Revmaster. It is smaller, lighter, more
reliable, and more powerful than the VW. You have to make an adapter
plate.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Marstall" <jnmarstall@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] starter



I didn't see you previous post but I have one of the original starters
that came on the Revmaster. Never been used.
Jerry Marstall

tbatch2000 wrote:

Does anyone have a starter for a 2100? I put a post on the net a few
days a ago but didn't see any reply.

Thanks
Rich

N66522


Re: Fuel Vent Lines

James Postma <james@...>
 

Peter,

Frank Follmer believed that the vent line should be terminated in the top of
the overflow pipe by extending it an inch or so into the overflow and that
this would eliminate the venting problem you describe.

He talked to Gene Sheehan about this and got him to agree with him, but I
don't know if Gene ever published a builders note about it.

Another way of dealing with the problem is to not have the header tank
completely full during take off so that the vent line will drain. My
procedure is to fill the header tank during preflight and then leave the
transfer pump off until after takeoff. I also cycle the transfer pump
during cruise and do not run it always. I use a similar procedure when
landing by filling the header tank during approach, and turning off the
transfer pump during landing.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Guys,
With respect and due humiliosity.
1. We seem to agree that fuel sometimes gets into the vent line.
2. It therefore follows that this will cause a partial vacuum in the
header tank as fuel is taken down to the carb. and this restricts the fuel
flow to the carb. If the carbs are gravity fed and no fuel bowl the effect
is an immediate loss of power .If you have a fuelbowl carb the fuel level in
the bowl will be lowered. If you pump feed the carbs, the pump will have to
work harder.Unless you run a gravity fed throttle body like Posa with no
fuel bowl , you may not be aware of the compromise to fuel supply.That does
not mean it is not happening.
3. How long before the vent line clears itself ? Will it drain down
under gravity or will it be pushed into the header under the combined effect
of air pressure and the developing vacuum in the header ? If a fuel pump is
used to draw from the header to supply the carb then the vent fuel will
probably be cleared up into the header sooner. There will be a condition
when the forces are in balance and there is no movement of this slug of
fuel.
That was enough to almost stop my Revmaster/Posa and I turned back at
250ft and managed to get around the circuit before the engine fully
recovered.
To me it makes sense to use a short 2" ,up facing vent because it will
hold less fuel and air pressure will combine with gravity to clear the vent.
The plans vent line is almost 3ft long and it can fill and gravity works
against air pressure to delay or stop the clearance.
I don't see the need to pressurise the tanks if the carbs are pump fed.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 9:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines


All,



Throughout the homebuilt world fuel related issues are the number one
cause
of accidents. Not enough fuel, poor management, contaminated, it's a
long
list. Don't make your system too complicated. Here's a little article
I
found of another guy's opinions:
http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/article/fuelsystemsforhomebuilts/fuelsy
stems.htm

The incident Lynn is referring to, happened to me and at least one other
Q-200 driver. If the fuel cap seal is compromised, or if it is left
completely off, a scary incident can follow. During run-up all seems
fine.
However, once you get into the air the hell breaks loose. Relatively
low
pressure air is delivered to the fuel tank(s) through the fuel leaking
cap
which results in a partial fuel starvation. This then follows with a
mayday
call and a dicey return to the runway.

The vent system should do two things, keep positive air pressure on the
fuel
to help deliver it to the carburetor, and to prevent overpressure while
you
are sitting in the sun.

The fix is simple. Build the vent system to the plans but build a fuel
cap
that won't come apart. There are various was of doing this, here is how
I
built mine:
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06fuelfiller.jpg
and here's a photo of my battered ram-air vent
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06speedbrake.jpg (You
can
also see a little curved tube behind the ram-air vent. This is simply a
fuel overflow drain that runs from the fuel fill area. If I overfill
the
fuel system the excess splash just runs out to the ground).

I cannot see any reason to vent the fuel tank cap with a small hole,
since
the fuel system is already vented to ram air.

You can easily test your vent system. Wrap your lips around your
ram-air
vent and simply blow hard into the tube to pressurize your system (do
not
use compressed air, you could rupture a tank). Place your thumb over
the
vent and wait about 5 seconds. Uncover the vent and you should feel
your
own breath coming back at you. If you do, your system is sealed well
enough.

Hope this helps.

Sam Hoskins, Glutton for Punishment

Murphysboro, IL



_____

From: French [mailto:LJFrench@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:36 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Sam,
As I looked in my database of Q-talk back issues, I see that fuel
related
problems is one of the top two reported problems that are statistically
significant. I also see that you wrote an article about your incident.
Did
you change anything to get at the root cause of your problem (i.e. vent)
or
did you just limit your fix to the gas cap?
LF


> I have used it all these years and it works fine.
>
> .
> Works just great.
>
> And of course, as we have discussed in the past, throw away the
original
> QAC
> plastic bottle fuel filler and get something more substantial.




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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ADVERTISEMENT





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Re: Too Much Information

James Postma <james@...>
 

Using a landing light during approach and departure is a great safety device
and relatively inexpensive. It enables other traffic to see you when you
are on a collision course. Airliners use their lights day and night during
takeoff and landing for this reason. The landing light is cheaper than
strobes and more effective during a head on course.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Finley" <jon@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 7:45 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Too Much Information



Hi Phil,

I think those devices are awesome (and getting better all the time).
I've had a few 'proximity scares' (not really near misses) and have
learned that our Q's are just not visible to other pilots. So, we must
take the lead and make sure we don't get hit (obviously, don't want to
hit anyone either). I have never used one of these devices but gotta
believe they are better than nothing. However; not quite in my budget
yet.

Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 467 Hrs. TT
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/Q2Subaru


-----Original Message-----
From: britmcman@... [mailto:britmcman@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 10:17 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Too Much Information


This might be a little off topic, rather broader in topic for the group,
but
I would like some feedback from the group nevertheless. I have a very
well
equipped Q-200 - essentially IFR capable, thought not certified. As an

enthusiastic pilot I want to have the latest and greatest avionics
within my
financial reach and although that reach is not very high, I have been
tempted to
add things to the flight deck. For example, an angle of attack
indicator.
That sounds like a good idea. I believe that if I had an engine out, I
would be
able to use the device to optimize my glide ratio regardless of weight.
Another device, the Traffic Scope Alert devices that provide some
aircraft
avoidance information seems useful. As a pilot in Southern California,
I believe
that aircraft avoidance is very high on my list of priorities.

Does anyone have any experience or consumer reports regarding the
Traffic
Scope VRX as seen at the following link?

_http://www.surecheck.net/avionics/_
(http://www.surecheck.net/avionics/)

I would like to break with a few hundred to $800 if it meant avoiding a

mid-air.

Of major concern is the fact that adding another instrument has a
tendency
of pulling the pilots eyes into the cockpit and creates distractions
that
ultimately compete with the pilot's efforts to scan the aeroscape for
other
potentially threatening aircraft.

The Traffic Scope VRX reports nearby aircraft via transponder signals.
Your
thoughts please.

Phil Lankford
Bible Thumpin Redneck Republican
N870BM










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http://www.quickiebuilders.org


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Re: Onan Engines

Keith L WeL Welsh <welshq1@...>
 

OK !!!
Will be glad to share what I know, however just remember Crouch is the
technical expert on these engines. I'm street smart on these but he is
technically smart. By that I mean I've learned to much the hard way where
he's
figured many things out ahead of time just by virtue of his mechanical
and
aeronautical background. I'm used to fixing things with a welder, big
hammer
and baling wire. Farmer in a past life.
Thanks to the help of others the Quickie I'm running today is much
different
than that purchased many years ago. Basically the same but much improved.
I now have a sound platform both mechanically and electrically.

I'm living proof that it dosen't pay to get to stuck on your own opinion.
No matter what the
experience level or past qualificatioins one person simply can't know it
all.
There are to many successful flying airplanes out there which can serve
as teachers for the rest.

And this is one GREAT sharing group.
Will put something together.

Welsh



On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:55:56 -0800 "David J. Gall" <David@...>
writes:


Keith,

I would very much like to read whatever you write about your Linamar
P220
experience, including the simple things like where to get them and
model
numbers, etc. Perhaps you could do a write-up for Q-Talk?

Thank you,


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith L WeL Welsh [mailto:welshq1@...]
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 4:24 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Onan Engines


Ben:

If you intend to purchase a new engine......good move. The
engines have improved much over the years. To see the old and
new is....well.....impressive. I'm running the P220 engine
which started as a short block. Last purchase was the Linamar
engine for my John Deere and was cheaper than purchasing the
short block.
I can pass on the the model and spec. nos. if you would like.
The breaker ignition type may or may not be available any
more...don't know.

Once purchased we can then begin a whole new set of
discussions. Yes there are a few things to do. Its close to a
bolt on and go but not quite. I burned up mine on the first
flight for example.
Learned the internal differences the hard way. The new
engines can't take the heat in specific areas the old ones
could and the carbueration must follow the engine ie...the
old carb and intake won't work, will fit but won't work.

Later
Welsh


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Re: new to group

Mark/Pat Pearson/Pound <wlkabout@...>
 

The original Quickie can be built from the plans -- though you would
need to find additional specs on "the welded parts" and you would have
to find a way to fabricate the cowling. The easiest way for both is to
borrow originals and copy them -- using an original cowling as a plug
for building a new one. Otherwise the original "kit" really was just a
collection of raw materials with virtually no prefabrication.
The Q2/200, TriQ etc. may be a different story.
By the way, Welcome.

Mark

Chuck and Judene wrote:


Hello all, I'm new to the group, just joined today.

I'm curious, can the quickie be built from just the plans, or do
you have to have the kit?

Thanks for the help,
Chuck
Houston, TX








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org




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Re: new to group

Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

Welcome,

Your answer is somewhere in these faqs
http://quickiebuilders.org/cgi-bin/smartfaq.cgi





_____

From: Chuck and Judene [mailto:chknjdn@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 4:41 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] new to group




Hello all, I'm new to the group, just joined today.

I'm curious, can the quickie be built from just the plans, or do
you have to have the kit?

Thanks for the help,
Chuck
Houston, TX








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






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<mailto:Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe>

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new to group

Chuck and Judene <chknjdn@...>
 

Hello all, I'm new to the group, just joined today.

I'm curious, can the quickie be built from just the plans, or do
you have to have the kit?

Thanks for the help,
Chuck
Houston, TX


Re: Too Much Information

David Chalmers <David@...>
 

I have a Monroy ATD-200 which works on the same principle as the Traffic Scope. It's a great idea but it doesn't work correctly with my Microair transponder. In between transmissions the transponder puts out a low level signal which is normally not noticeable but is picked up by the traffic monitor and in effect blanks out other aircraft. I spent many hours trying to get it to work correctly. Monroy suggested that it may be a problem with any transponder using a solid-state oscillator. I talked to SureCheck and they would not guarantee that the Traffic Scope would work correctly with a solid-state oscillator and suggested taking advantage of their 30-day money back guarantee if it didn't work.

Just my experience.

Dave Chalmers
TriQ200 N4016G (200 hrs)
Redmond, WA

-----Original Message-----
From: britmcman@... [mailto:britmcman@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:17 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Too Much Information



This might be a little off topic, rather broader in topic for the group, but
I would like some feedback from the group nevertheless. I have a very well
equipped Q-200 - essentially IFR capable, thought not certified. As an
enthusiastic pilot I want to have the latest and greatest avionics within my
financial reach and although that reach is not very high, I have been tempted to
add things to the flight deck. For example, an angle of attack indicator.
That sounds like a good idea. I believe that if I had an engine out, I would be
able to use the device to optimize my glide ratio regardless of weight.
Another device, the Traffic Scope Alert devices that provide some aircraft
avoidance information seems useful. As a pilot in Southern California, I believe
that aircraft avoidance is very high on my list of priorities.

Does anyone have any experience or consumer reports regarding the Traffic
Scope VRX as seen at the following link?

_http://www.surecheck.net/avionics/_ (http://www.surecheck.net/avionics/)

I would like to break with a few hundred to $800 if it meant avoiding a
mid-air.

Of major concern is the fact that adding another instrument has a tendency
of pulling the pilots eyes into the cockpit and creates distractions that
ultimately compete with the pilot's efforts to scan the aeroscape for other
potentially threatening aircraft.

The Traffic Scope VRX reports nearby aircraft via transponder signals. Your
thoughts please.

Phil Lankford
Bible Thumpin Redneck Republican
N870BM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Too Much Information

Jon Finley <jon@...>
 

Hi Phil,

I think those devices are awesome (and getting better all the time).
I've had a few 'proximity scares' (not really near misses) and have
learned that our Q's are just not visible to other pilots. So, we must
take the lead and make sure we don't get hit (obviously, don't want to
hit anyone either). I have never used one of these devices but gotta
believe they are better than nothing. However; not quite in my budget
yet.

Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 467 Hrs. TT
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/Q2Subaru

-----Original Message-----
From: britmcman@... [mailto:britmcman@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 10:17 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Too Much Information


This might be a little off topic, rather broader in topic for the group,
but
I would like some feedback from the group nevertheless. I have a very
well
equipped Q-200 - essentially IFR capable, thought not certified. As an

enthusiastic pilot I want to have the latest and greatest avionics
within my
financial reach and although that reach is not very high, I have been
tempted to
add things to the flight deck. For example, an angle of attack
indicator.
That sounds like a good idea. I believe that if I had an engine out, I
would be
able to use the device to optimize my glide ratio regardless of weight.
Another device, the Traffic Scope Alert devices that provide some
aircraft
avoidance information seems useful. As a pilot in Southern California,
I believe
that aircraft avoidance is very high on my list of priorities.

Does anyone have any experience or consumer reports regarding the
Traffic
Scope VRX as seen at the following link?

_http://www.surecheck.net/avionics/_
(http://www.surecheck.net/avionics/)

I would like to break with a few hundred to $800 if it meant avoiding a

mid-air.

Of major concern is the fact that adding another instrument has a
tendency
of pulling the pilots eyes into the cockpit and creates distractions
that
ultimately compete with the pilot's efforts to scan the aeroscape for
other
potentially threatening aircraft.

The Traffic Scope VRX reports nearby aircraft via transponder signals.
Your
thoughts please.

Phil Lankford
Bible Thumpin Redneck Republican
N870BM


Re: Fuel Vent Lines

Bruce Crain
 

One other problem is that the Q is such a tightly cowled engine that when the Q is shut down the heat has a hard time getting out. Then when the engine is started and taxi begins the heat is pushed down to the bottom of the cowl and the fuel line etc. Vapor lock is a very present problem if you don't let the engine cool down enough.
My friend John Spurling put fans in the inlets to cool in between engine runs. I believe he used the 12 volt system to power them from the battery.
Bruce


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Re: Gascolators

Bruce Crain
 

I like President Bush also John. What up Dude?
Bruce

-- "JohntenHave" <Jtenhave@...> wrote:



sorry Phil, it was the first four letter word that popped into my
head...

John

--- In Q-LIST@..., britmcman@a... wrote:
I am really at odds at your comments, John. On the one hand, you
basically
take my side on the issue of gascolators being a good thing when
properly
installed. Then you turn around and say something like," a piece
of Bush" when
I am sure you meant to say,"a piece of Kerry."

Phil Lankford
N870BM









Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links






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Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.
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Re: Fuel Vent Lines

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Guys,
With respect and due humiliosity.
1. We seem to agree that fuel sometimes gets into the vent line.
2. It therefore follows that this will cause a partial vacuum in the header tank as fuel is taken down to the carb. and this restricts the fuel flow to the carb. If the carbs are gravity fed and no fuel bowl the effect is an immediate loss of power .If you have a fuelbowl carb the fuel level in the bowl will be lowered. If you pump feed the carbs, the pump will have to work harder.Unless you run a gravity fed throttle body like Posa with no fuel bowl , you may not be aware of the compromise to fuel supply.That does not mean it is not happening.
3. How long before the vent line clears itself ? Will it drain down under gravity or will it be pushed into the header under the combined effect of air pressure and the developing vacuum in the header ? If a fuel pump is used to draw from the header to supply the carb then the vent fuel will probably be cleared up into the header sooner. There will be a condition when the forces are in balance and there is no movement of this slug of fuel.
That was enough to almost stop my Revmaster/Posa and I turned back at 250ft and managed to get around the circuit before the engine fully recovered.
To me it makes sense to use a short 2" ,up facing vent because it will hold less fuel and air pressure will combine with gravity to clear the vent. The plans vent line is almost 3ft long and it can fill and gravity works against air pressure to delay or stop the clearance.
I don't see the need to pressurise the tanks if the carbs are pump fed.
Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 9:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines


All,



Throughout the homebuilt world fuel related issues are the number one cause
of accidents. Not enough fuel, poor management, contaminated, it's a long
list. Don't make your system too complicated. Here's a little article I
found of another guy's opinions:
http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/article/fuelsystemsforhomebuilts/fuelsy
stems.htm

The incident Lynn is referring to, happened to me and at least one other
Q-200 driver. If the fuel cap seal is compromised, or if it is left
completely off, a scary incident can follow. During run-up all seems fine.
However, once you get into the air the hell breaks loose. Relatively low
pressure air is delivered to the fuel tank(s) through the fuel leaking cap
which results in a partial fuel starvation. This then follows with a mayday
call and a dicey return to the runway.

The vent system should do two things, keep positive air pressure on the fuel
to help deliver it to the carburetor, and to prevent overpressure while you
are sitting in the sun.

The fix is simple. Build the vent system to the plans but build a fuel cap
that won't come apart. There are various was of doing this, here is how I
built mine: http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06fuelfiller.jpg
and here's a photo of my battered ram-air vent
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06speedbrake.jpg (You can
also see a little curved tube behind the ram-air vent. This is simply a
fuel overflow drain that runs from the fuel fill area. If I overfill the
fuel system the excess splash just runs out to the ground).

I cannot see any reason to vent the fuel tank cap with a small hole, since
the fuel system is already vented to ram air.

You can easily test your vent system. Wrap your lips around your ram-air
vent and simply blow hard into the tube to pressurize your system (do not
use compressed air, you could rupture a tank). Place your thumb over the
vent and wait about 5 seconds. Uncover the vent and you should feel your
own breath coming back at you. If you do, your system is sealed well
enough.

Hope this helps.

Sam Hoskins, Glutton for Punishment

Murphysboro, IL



_____

From: French [mailto:LJFrench@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:36 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Sam,
As I looked in my database of Q-talk back issues, I see that fuel related
problems is one of the top two reported problems that are statistically
significant. I also see that you wrote an article about your incident. Did
you change anything to get at the root cause of your problem (i.e. vent) or
did you just limit your fix to the gas cap?
LF


> I have used it all these years and it works fine.
>
> .
> Works just great.
>
> And of course, as we have discussed in the past, throw away the original
> QAC
> plastic bottle fuel filler and get something more substantial.




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






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Vent Lines

Ron <rondefly@...>
 

I really want to thank all the response to the question about the venting of
the fuel tanks. From what I can gather, several variations are working, what
I am putting together is pretty simple, I do have a low fuel valve in the
header tank that will start a red light on the annunciator panel, I am going
to try and get it to start a backup pump from the 2nd feeder line from the
main tank also, I have all -6 fittings and the stainless braided fuel line.
Other than that the venting is stock. I will however be connecting the aux
tank into the system by quick couplers. Never did get any answer about the
Fram HPG1 filter that I thought would be nice to put a water release valve
in the bottom, I did send a email to the glassair list as Bob suggested.



Thank you all again



Ron Triano N4710P


Too Much Information

britmcman99
 

This might be a little off topic, rather broader in topic for the group, but
I would like some feedback from the group nevertheless. I have a very well
equipped Q-200 - essentially IFR capable, thought not certified. As an
enthusiastic pilot I want to have the latest and greatest avionics within my
financial reach and although that reach is not very high, I have been tempted to
add things to the flight deck. For example, an angle of attack indicator.
That sounds like a good idea. I believe that if I had an engine out, I would be
able to use the device to optimize my glide ratio regardless of weight.
Another device, the Traffic Scope Alert devices that provide some aircraft
avoidance information seems useful. As a pilot in Southern California, I believe
that aircraft avoidance is very high on my list of priorities.

Does anyone have any experience or consumer reports regarding the Traffic
Scope VRX as seen at the following link?

_http://www.surecheck.net/avionics/_ (http://www.surecheck.net/avionics/)

I would like to break with a few hundred to $800 if it meant avoiding a
mid-air.

Of major concern is the fact that adding another instrument has a tendency
of pulling the pilots eyes into the cockpit and creates distractions that
ultimately compete with the pilot's efforts to scan the aeroscape for other
potentially threatening aircraft.

The Traffic Scope VRX reports nearby aircraft via transponder signals. Your
thoughts please.

Phil Lankford
Bible Thumpin Redneck Republican
N870BM


Re: Gascolators

JohntenHave <Jtenhave@...>
 

sorry Phil, it was the first four letter word that popped into my
head...

John

--- In Q-LIST@..., britmcman@a... wrote:
I am really at odds at your comments, John. On the one hand, you
basically
take my side on the issue of gascolators being a good thing when
properly
installed. Then you turn around and say something like," a piece
of Bush" when
I am sure you meant to say,"a piece of Kerry."

Phil Lankford
N870BM





Re: Fuel Vent Lines

Letempt, Jeffrey CW4 <jeffrey.letempt@...>
 

Since you are re-working your plane I think you should get a new one :<)

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Marstall [mailto:jnmarstall@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 10:38 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



What do you think? Should I keep it?
Jerry

Letempt, Jeffrey CW4 wrote:

Jerry,

Your innovative thermos bottle fuel cap looked......well it worked. I have
one of your photos showing the cap on the 2003 event web site at:

http://www.fidnet.com/~letempt/jerry_marstall.htm

Jeff

ps - it actually happened at Sullivan, unless you had it happen twice.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Marstall [mailto:jnmarstall@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 6:09 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Accidentally I learned that you can fly without a fuel cap if your fuel
filler inlet is in the top of the header tank. In Ottawa my fuel cap
blew out about 10 miles from the airport. Fortunately the engine didn't
skip a beat, nor did I lose any fuel from the header. Evidently the top
of the fuselage, directly in front of the windscreen is a high pressure
area. Lucky break!!

Some of you may remember the thermos bottle cap I stuck in the filler to
make it back to NC.
Jerry Marstall

Sam Hoskins wrote:



All,



Throughout the homebuilt world fuel related issues are the number one
cause
of accidents. Not enough fuel, poor management, contaminated, it's a long
list. Don't make your system too complicated. Here's a little article I
found of another guy's opinions:
http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/article/fuelsystemsforhomebuilts/fuel
s

y


stems.htm

The incident Lynn is referring to, happened to me and at least one other
Q-200 driver. If the fuel cap seal is compromised, or if it is left
completely off, a scary incident can follow. During run-up all seems
fine.
However, once you get into the air the hell breaks loose. Relatively low
pressure air is delivered to the fuel tank(s) through the fuel leaking cap
which results in a partial fuel starvation. This then follows with a

mayday


call and a dicey return to the runway.

The vent system should do two things, keep positive air pressure on the

fuel


to help deliver it to the carburetor, and to prevent overpressure while
you
are sitting in the sun.

The fix is simple. Build the vent system to the plans but build a fuel
cap
that won't come apart. There are various was of doing this, here is how I
built mine:
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06fuelfiller.jpg
and here's a photo of my battered ram-air vent
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06speedbrake.jpg (You can
also see a little curved tube behind the ram-air vent. This is simply a
fuel overflow drain that runs from the fuel fill area. If I overfill the
fuel system the excess splash just runs out to the ground).

I cannot see any reason to vent the fuel tank cap with a small hole, since
the fuel system is already vented to ram air.

You can easily test your vent system. Wrap your lips around your ram-air
vent and simply blow hard into the tube to pressurize your system (do not
use compressed air, you could rupture a tank). Place your thumb over the
vent and wait about 5 seconds. Uncover the vent and you should feel your
own breath coming back at you. If you do, your system is sealed well
enough.

Hope this helps.

Sam Hoskins, Glutton for Punishment

Murphysboro, IL



_____

From: French [mailto:LJFrench@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:36 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Sam,
As I looked in my database of Q-talk back issues, I see that fuel related
problems is one of the top two reported problems that are statistically
significant. I also see that you wrote an article about your incident. Did
you change anything to get at the root cause of your problem (i.e. vent)
or



did you just limit your fix to the gas cap?
LF






I have used it all these years and it works fine.

.
Works just great.

And of course, as we have discussed in the past, throw away the original
QAC
plastic bottle fuel filler and get something more substantial.




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






_____

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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
<mailto:Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe>

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Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links

















Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links















Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Fuel Vent Lines

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

What do you think? Should I keep it?
Jerry

Letempt, Jeffrey CW4 wrote:

Jerry,

Your innovative thermos bottle fuel cap looked......well it worked. I have
one of your photos showing the cap on the 2003 event web site at:

http://www.fidnet.com/~letempt/jerry_marstall.htm

Jeff

ps - it actually happened at Sullivan, unless you had it happen twice.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Marstall [mailto:jnmarstall@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 6:09 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Accidentally I learned that you can fly without a fuel cap if your fuel
filler inlet is in the top of the header tank. In Ottawa my fuel cap
blew out about 10 miles from the airport. Fortunately the engine didn't
skip a beat, nor did I lose any fuel from the header. Evidently the top
of the fuselage, directly in front of the windscreen is a high pressure
area. Lucky break!!

Some of you may remember the thermos bottle cap I stuck in the filler to
make it back to NC.
Jerry Marstall

Sam Hoskins wrote:



All,



Throughout the homebuilt world fuel related issues are the number one cause
of accidents. Not enough fuel, poor management, contaminated, it's a long
list. Don't make your system too complicated. Here's a little article I
found of another guy's opinions:
http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/article/fuelsystemsforhomebuilts/fuels

y


stems.htm

The incident Lynn is referring to, happened to me and at least one other
Q-200 driver. If the fuel cap seal is compromised, or if it is left
completely off, a scary incident can follow. During run-up all seems fine.
However, once you get into the air the hell breaks loose. Relatively low
pressure air is delivered to the fuel tank(s) through the fuel leaking cap
which results in a partial fuel starvation. This then follows with a

mayday


call and a dicey return to the runway.

The vent system should do two things, keep positive air pressure on the

fuel


to help deliver it to the carburetor, and to prevent overpressure while you
are sitting in the sun.

The fix is simple. Build the vent system to the plans but build a fuel cap
that won't come apart. There are various was of doing this, here is how I
built mine: http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06fuelfiller.jpg
and here's a photo of my battered ram-air vent
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06speedbrake.jpg (You can
also see a little curved tube behind the ram-air vent. This is simply a
fuel overflow drain that runs from the fuel fill area. If I overfill the
fuel system the excess splash just runs out to the ground).

I cannot see any reason to vent the fuel tank cap with a small hole, since
the fuel system is already vented to ram air.

You can easily test your vent system. Wrap your lips around your ram-air
vent and simply blow hard into the tube to pressurize your system (do not
use compressed air, you could rupture a tank). Place your thumb over the
vent and wait about 5 seconds. Uncover the vent and you should feel your
own breath coming back at you. If you do, your system is sealed well
enough.

Hope this helps.

Sam Hoskins, Glutton for Punishment

Murphysboro, IL



_____

From: French [mailto:LJFrench@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:36 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Sam,
As I looked in my database of Q-talk back issues, I see that fuel related
problems is one of the top two reported problems that are statistically
significant. I also see that you wrote an article about your incident. Did
you change anything to get at the root cause of your problem (i.e. vent) or



did you just limit your fix to the gas cap?
LF






I have used it all these years and it works fine.

.
Works just great.

And of course, as we have discussed in the past, throw away the original
QAC
plastic bottle fuel filler and get something more substantial.




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
<mailto:Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
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Re: Fuel Vent Lines

Letempt, Jeffrey CW4 <jeffrey.letempt@...>
 

Jerry,

Your innovative thermos bottle fuel cap looked......well it worked. I have
one of your photos showing the cap on the 2003 event web site at:

http://www.fidnet.com/~letempt/jerry_marstall.htm

Jeff

ps - it actually happened at Sullivan, unless you had it happen twice.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Marstall [mailto:jnmarstall@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 6:09 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Accidentally I learned that you can fly without a fuel cap if your fuel
filler inlet is in the top of the header tank. In Ottawa my fuel cap
blew out about 10 miles from the airport. Fortunately the engine didn't
skip a beat, nor did I lose any fuel from the header. Evidently the top
of the fuselage, directly in front of the windscreen is a high pressure
area. Lucky break!!

Some of you may remember the thermos bottle cap I stuck in the filler to
make it back to NC.
Jerry Marstall

Sam Hoskins wrote:

All,



Throughout the homebuilt world fuel related issues are the number one cause
of accidents. Not enough fuel, poor management, contaminated, it's a long
list. Don't make your system too complicated. Here's a little article I
found of another guy's opinions:
http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/article/fuelsystemsforhomebuilts/fuels
y
stems.htm

The incident Lynn is referring to, happened to me and at least one other
Q-200 driver. If the fuel cap seal is compromised, or if it is left
completely off, a scary incident can follow. During run-up all seems fine.
However, once you get into the air the hell breaks loose. Relatively low
pressure air is delivered to the fuel tank(s) through the fuel leaking cap
which results in a partial fuel starvation. This then follows with a
mayday
call and a dicey return to the runway.

The vent system should do two things, keep positive air pressure on the
fuel
to help deliver it to the carburetor, and to prevent overpressure while you
are sitting in the sun.

The fix is simple. Build the vent system to the plans but build a fuel cap
that won't come apart. There are various was of doing this, here is how I
built mine: http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06fuelfiller.jpg
and here's a photo of my battered ram-air vent
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/aircraftdetail/06speedbrake.jpg (You can
also see a little curved tube behind the ram-air vent. This is simply a
fuel overflow drain that runs from the fuel fill area. If I overfill the
fuel system the excess splash just runs out to the ground).

I cannot see any reason to vent the fuel tank cap with a small hole, since
the fuel system is already vented to ram air.

You can easily test your vent system. Wrap your lips around your ram-air
vent and simply blow hard into the tube to pressurize your system (do not
use compressed air, you could rupture a tank). Place your thumb over the
vent and wait about 5 seconds. Uncover the vent and you should feel your
own breath coming back at you. If you do, your system is sealed well
enough.

Hope this helps.

Sam Hoskins, Glutton for Punishment

Murphysboro, IL



_____

From: French [mailto:LJFrench@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:36 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Vent Lines



Sam,
As I looked in my database of Q-talk back issues, I see that fuel related
problems is one of the top two reported problems that are statistically
significant. I also see that you wrote an article about your incident. Did
you change anything to get at the root cause of your problem (i.e. vent) or
did you just limit your fix to the gas cap?
LF




I have used it all these years and it works fine.

.
Works just great.

And of course, as we have discussed in the past, throw away the original
QAC
plastic bottle fuel filler and get something more substantial.




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