Date   

Gas Chits

Don Stewart <siinc@...>
 

Doug is referring to the Gas Chits that the FBO sells to you for $1.00
each. Your job is to reward any pilot who gives you a checkride, or
helps you in some other significant way by giving him one (or more) Gas
Chits. The pilot can then redeem the Gas Chits at the FBO for gas so he
can fly you all around some more. Pretty classy, huh?
Regards,
Don
http://www.si-inc.com/Ottawa2000

----------------------------------------------

Subject: [Q-LIST] I Need check ride @ Ottawa
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:47:46 EDT
From: HawkiDoug@...
Reply-To: Q-LIST@...

This will be my 7th year at Ottawa (wow!) and I have asked for, and
gotten
two rides. One in a Dragonfly and one in a Q200 (Paul Fisher). Its
always
somewhat of a zoo trying to get rides so I wasn't that aggressive in my
attempts. Well, this year is different!!! The FAA inspector comes
tomorrow
and I will be doing my annual on Sunday. So, I would like to beg a
ride
from whomever I can this year, It doesn't matter who's Q or what
type.
I'll be buying lots of gas tickets. Will anyone help me out????

Thanks in advance!

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
Omaha NE


Re: Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)

Chris Adkins <ccadkins@...>
 

Thanks for the compliment Don! Vitals are: 6'-0" tall, 175lbs
(pre-airport-hotdogs, Mt. Dews, etc.)

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)



A most excellent job of begging, Chris. Surely someone from the Q group
will take pity on you. What are your vital statistics (Height/Weight)?

Chris Adkins wrote:


OK, I'm openly and shamelessly begging...I need to ride in a Q2 while
I'm
there. That's what I'm driving all the way from Ashland, KY for!!!! I
just
bought a "project" a couple of months ago that had flown about 200 hrs.
with
a Revmaster, and I'm doing a firewall-forward with a 'vair, but I've
never
been up in one.

Anybody??? PLEASE???? $$$$$$????

I'm arriving 10/6pm, departing 10/9am

Chris Adkins
ccadkins@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
To: Q-List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 12:57 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)



I sent this to the Dragonlist, but thought you might want to see what
I
say about you Q-guys behind your back!
------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DFLY: Rides at Ottawa2000
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:03:30 -0700
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
Organization STEWART INSTRUMENTS, INC.
To: dragonlist@...

I repeat: Do not wait to the last moment to try to arrange for rides
at
Ottawa. Only the very lucky are able to arrange for DF rides at the
airport. "Well, do you feel lucky, punk?" (Clint Eastwood said it not
me).

Traditionally there are more Q-craft than DFs at Ottawa, and the
Q-guys
are a bunch of flying fools (in the good sense), so it is possible to
connect with a two-place Q pilot to get a ride that approximates the
DF
experience (of course, they say it's a better experience).

I do not get in the middle of arranging rides at Ottawa. Someone
usually
steps up to volunteer to organize a sign-up sheet, but it tain't me. I
have yet to see a sign-up plan that makes everyone happy. But
something
is probably better than nothing. I'm still waiting for this year's
volunteer.

With the cooler weather in October we definitely get more air hours
than
when we held this thing in September. More air hours means more happy
checkriders. Having the Awards Dinner at the airport means we don't
have
to shut air operations down early just to drive cross-town for food,
which means more air hours (see above).

If you can talk a pilot into arriving early (or possibly, staying
late),
Friday or Sunday are great times to get checkrides. But it is
difficult
to accomplish because pilots are tired when they arrive on Friday and
want to get on their way back home on Sunday. Things you should be
aware
of.

Did I mention that the Early Fly-In Registration Discount goes away
after this Friday, then standard Registration rates apply? Did you see
the great list of door prizes?

Best Regards,
Don Stewart
http://www.si-inc.com/Ottawa2000/


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Re: Rough Revmaster

mjmorea@...
 

I have had a gascolator for 14 years with no problem. It is shielded and air
cooled (per Q Aircraft specs, Quickie nwsltrs no 21)). Never found any water.

Q2FLYBOY@... a crit:


Gascolator is bad. I hac the same problem 10yrs ago. Changed to car filter
inside cockpit like plans and never had any trouble since,

dave carlson

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Re: A VG question, sorry.

mjmorea@...
 

Ed,the Quickie Aircraft specs are 50%

Edward N. MacLeod a crit:


For you GU experts out there, a quick VG question:

I noticed on the QBA site
(http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html), the VGs should be
located at the 50% chord.

Another site shows them near the max thickness line,
http://www.si-inc.com/dragonfly/dropbox/vg-place.gif

Unfortunately I put mine at the latter location.

Thanks for the feedback.

Ed m

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Re: Airflow over the canard

mbrowner1@...
 

I was planning on putting fences on the otbd elevators....originally not for
aerodynamics, but to index with control deflection angle marks for my test
phase.

Mike

In a message dated 09/14/2000 6:05:34 PM Central Daylight Time,
tvanmeter@... writes:

<< One would probably only need an upper and lower fence on both the outboard
and inboard of the elevator. The vertical dimensions would be dictated by
elevator travel. The gap could then be "sealed" by the little fuzzy strips.
This setup could still utilize a canard to fuselage fairing or fillet. Ted
- >>


Re: Airflow over the canard

L Koutz <koutzl@...>
 

Jon
My tufts (3 of them) mid elevator did the same thing, spin around, that is.
I don't remember which direction. What do you think of that!?!
Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Finley" <finley@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Airflow over the canard



Guys,

I've been reading your thoughts and pondering my experiences. I really do
not know what is happening so any ideas that I may offer are only
GUESSES!!

I do not recall if my tuft "bank" moves one way or the other when airflow
is
gone/degraded/disturbed/etc BUT I do know that I have one tuft that likes
to
spin in circles almost all the time. It attached in the middle (both
horizontally and vertically) of the left (pilot side) elevator, is about
three inches long, and spins clockwise about the end that is attached to
the
elevator (with a really small piece of fine tape). Next time I fly I will
pay attention to see if there is a direction that all tufts move.

Keep up the discussion - fun stuff!! For all those that are flying - put
a
few tufts on your canard and tell us what they are doing!! It takes about
five minutes, is free (unless you don't have tape and
yarn/string/whatever),
and you may learn something about your airplane!
Jon Finley
Q1 N54JF - 1835cc VW
Q2 N90MG - Subaru EA-81 DD Turbo
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://63.90.191.136/Finley/finley-subaru.html



-----Original Message-----
From: Ed MacLeod [mailto:ed@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 7:49 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Airflow over the canard



My Groups | Q-LIST Main Page | Start a new group!


--- In Q-LIST@..., "L Koutz" <koutzl@S...> wrote:
Hi Larry,

I have a hard time dreaming up another expaination for the inboard
flowing tufts. With the elevators down, you get a strong wing tip
vortex at the outer elevator edge. The flow on the top would be
inboard. Seal the outer (and inner?) edges of the elevator and you
eliminate this vortex flow, the tufts should not flow inboard as
readily.
This is why they add droopy wing tips to stol aircraft, to make it
harder for the vortex to roll back onto the trailing edge of the wing
and disrupting the normal airflow over the wing.

As always, I could be wrong.

Ed m



> Ed
>
> I don't read the tufts moving inboard together as a sign that air
is
leaking
> through the outboard elevator/ canard gap. I don't know why they do
this
> just yet.
> Larry
>
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > It sound like the inboard leak phenomenon is occurring at the
> > outboard end of the elevator. Does this agree with your
observations?
> > Perhaps the prop is blasting away the air leaking in at the root
and
> > the outboard leak becomes more significant.
> >
> > Ed m
>




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Re: Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)

Bruce Crain
 

When a pilot is giving rides he is focused on his airplane and temps etc.
I know in the past Don has suggested that builders who are closest to
completion should get the 1st rides. It has been a pleasure and a
priveledge to give excited folks rides. I know it will work out well if
the weather is good. If you are nearing completion and are shy let Don
or "Jemmeh" or someone know that you want and need a ride and I'm sure
they will try to help. Hopefully we will have many planes and can give
everyone many rides. It is always a blessing to give rides at Ottawa and
myself and the Q/Dragon fly pilots will do our best. Sometimes all you
have to do is ask.

Bruce Crain
Yiiipppeee Skiiipppeee!!! It's time for Ottawow!!!!

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:43:06 -0400 "Chris Adkins" <ccadkins@...>
writes:
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

Thanks for the compliment Don! Vitals are: 6'-0" tall, 175lbs
(pre-airport-hotdogs, Mt. Dews, etc.)


----- Original Message -----
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)



A most excellent job of begging, Chris. Surely someone from the Q
group
will take pity on you. What are your vital statistics
(Height/Weight)?

Chris Adkins wrote:


OK, I'm openly and shamelessly begging...I need to ride in a Q2
while
I'm
there. That's what I'm driving all the way from Ashland, KY
for!!!! I
just
bought a "project" a couple of months ago that had flown about 200
hrs.
with
a Revmaster, and I'm doing a firewall-forward with a 'vair, but
I've
never
been up in one.

Anybody??? PLEASE???? $$$$$$????

I'm arriving 10/6pm, departing 10/9am

Chris Adkins
ccadkins@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
To: Q-List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 12:57 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)



I sent this to the Dragonlist, but thought you might want to see
what
I
say about you Q-guys behind your back!
------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DFLY: Rides at Ottawa2000
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:03:30 -0700
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
Organization STEWART INSTRUMENTS, INC.
To: dragonlist@...

I repeat: Do not wait to the last moment to try to arrange for
rides
at
Ottawa. Only the very lucky are able to arrange for DF rides at
the
airport. "Well, do you feel lucky, punk?" (Clint Eastwood said
it not
me).

Traditionally there are more Q-craft than DFs at Ottawa, and the
Q-guys
are a bunch of flying fools (in the good sense), so it is
possible to
connect with a two-place Q pilot to get a ride that approximates
the
DF
experience (of course, they say it's a better experience).

I do not get in the middle of arranging rides at Ottawa. Someone
usually
steps up to volunteer to organize a sign-up sheet, but it tain't
me. I
have yet to see a sign-up plan that makes everyone happy. But
something
is probably better than nothing. I'm still waiting for this
year's
volunteer.

With the cooler weather in October we definitely get more air
hours
than
when we held this thing in September. More air hours means more
happy
checkriders. Having the Awards Dinner at the airport means we
don't
have
to shut air operations down early just to drive cross-town for
food,
which means more air hours (see above).

If you can talk a pilot into arriving early (or possibly,
staying
late),
Friday or Sunday are great times to get checkrides. But it is
difficult
to accomplish because pilots are tired when they arrive on
Friday and
want to get on their way back home on Sunday. Things you should
be
aware
of.

Did I mention that the Early Fly-In Registration Discount goes
away
after this Friday, then standard Registration rates apply? Did
you see
the great list of door prizes?

Best Regards,
Don Stewart
http://www.si-inc.com/Ottawa2000/


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html

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Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Re: Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)

Don Stewart <siinc@...>
 

A most excellent job of begging, Chris. Surely someone from the Q group
will take pity on you. What are your vital statistics (Height/Weight)?

Chris Adkins wrote:



OK, I'm openly and shamelessly begging...I need to ride in a Q2 while I'm
there. That's what I'm driving all the way from Ashland, KY for!!!! I just
bought a "project" a couple of months ago that had flown about 200 hrs. with
a Revmaster, and I'm doing a firewall-forward with a 'vair, but I've never
been up in one.

Anybody??? PLEASE???? $$$$$$????

I'm arriving 10/6pm, departing 10/9am

Chris Adkins
ccadkins@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
To: Q-List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 12:57 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)



I sent this to the Dragonlist, but thought you might want to see what I
say about you Q-guys behind your back!
------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DFLY: Rides at Ottawa2000
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:03:30 -0700
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
Organization STEWART INSTRUMENTS, INC.
To: dragonlist@...

I repeat: Do not wait to the last moment to try to arrange for rides at
Ottawa. Only the very lucky are able to arrange for DF rides at the
airport. "Well, do you feel lucky, punk?" (Clint Eastwood said it not
me).

Traditionally there are more Q-craft than DFs at Ottawa, and the Q-guys
are a bunch of flying fools (in the good sense), so it is possible to
connect with a two-place Q pilot to get a ride that approximates the DF
experience (of course, they say it's a better experience).

I do not get in the middle of arranging rides at Ottawa. Someone usually
steps up to volunteer to organize a sign-up sheet, but it tain't me. I
have yet to see a sign-up plan that makes everyone happy. But something
is probably better than nothing. I'm still waiting for this year's
volunteer.

With the cooler weather in October we definitely get more air hours than
when we held this thing in September. More air hours means more happy
checkriders. Having the Awards Dinner at the airport means we don't have
to shut air operations down early just to drive cross-town for food,
which means more air hours (see above).

If you can talk a pilot into arriving early (or possibly, staying late),
Friday or Sunday are great times to get checkrides. But it is difficult
to accomplish because pilots are tired when they arrive on Friday and
want to get on their way back home on Sunday. Things you should be aware
of.

Did I mention that the Early Fly-In Registration Discount goes away
after this Friday, then standard Registration rates apply? Did you see
the great list of door prizes?

Best Regards,
Don Stewart
http://www.si-inc.com/Ottawa2000/


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html

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Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

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Re: Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)

Chris Adkins <ccadkins@...>
 

OK, I'm openly and shamelessly begging...I need to ride in a Q2 while I'm
there. That's what I'm driving all the way from Ashland, KY for!!!! I just
bought a "project" a couple of months ago that had flown about 200 hrs. with
a Revmaster, and I'm doing a firewall-forward with a 'vair, but I've never
been up in one.

Anybody??? PLEASE???? $$$$$$????

I'm arriving 10/6pm, departing 10/9am

Chris Adkins
ccadkins@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
To: Q-List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 12:57 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)




I sent this to the Dragonlist, but thought you might want to see what I
say about you Q-guys behind your back!
------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DFLY: Rides at Ottawa2000
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:03:30 -0700
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
Organization STEWART INSTRUMENTS, INC.
To: dragonlist@...

I repeat: Do not wait to the last moment to try to arrange for rides at
Ottawa. Only the very lucky are able to arrange for DF rides at the
airport. "Well, do you feel lucky, punk?" (Clint Eastwood said it not
me).

Traditionally there are more Q-craft than DFs at Ottawa, and the Q-guys
are a bunch of flying fools (in the good sense), so it is possible to
connect with a two-place Q pilot to get a ride that approximates the DF
experience (of course, they say it's a better experience).

I do not get in the middle of arranging rides at Ottawa. Someone usually
steps up to volunteer to organize a sign-up sheet, but it tain't me. I
have yet to see a sign-up plan that makes everyone happy. But something
is probably better than nothing. I'm still waiting for this year's
volunteer.

With the cooler weather in October we definitely get more air hours than
when we held this thing in September. More air hours means more happy
checkriders. Having the Awards Dinner at the airport means we don't have
to shut air operations down early just to drive cross-town for food,
which means more air hours (see above).

If you can talk a pilot into arriving early (or possibly, staying late),
Friday or Sunday are great times to get checkrides. But it is difficult
to accomplish because pilots are tired when they arrive on Friday and
want to get on their way back home on Sunday. Things you should be aware
of.

Did I mention that the Early Fly-In Registration Discount goes away
after this Friday, then standard Registration rates apply? Did you see
the great list of door prizes?

Best Regards,
Don Stewart
http://www.si-inc.com/Ottawa2000/


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html


I Need check ride @ Ottawa

HawkiDoug@...
 

This will be my 7th year at Ottawa (wow!) and I have asked for, and gotten
two rides. One in a Dragonfly and one in a Q200 (Paul Fisher). Its always
somewhat of a zoo trying to get rides so I wasn't that aggressive in my
attempts. Well, this year is different!!! The FAA inspector comes tomorrow
and I will be doing my annual on Sunday. So, I would like to beg a ride
from whomever I can this year, It doesn't matter who's Q or what type.
I'll be buying lots of gas tickets. Will anyone help me out????

Thanks in advance!

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
Omaha NE


Re: A simple STOL mod for Qs?

Hot Wings
 

In a message dated 9/13/00 6:16:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
terry.l.sickler@... writes:

<< How would you then deflect the elevator "up"? Inquiring minds...... ~T~
>>
=============================
spring to hold it up and just a lever to move it down in parallel with the
elevator.


"Think outside the box - but fly in the envelope"
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/bd5er/Qpage.html">Q-2 page</A>
Leon McAtee


Re: A simple STOL mod for Qs?

Hot Wings
 

In a message dated 9/13/00 5:03:25 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
koutzl@... writes:

<< I can't seem to get this web page to come up
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html">Quickie . What am I doing
wrong?
Larry
>>
=========================
May be some kind of AOL problem on my end. All it points to is the color air
pressure map on the QBA site.

"Think outside the box - but fly in the envelope"
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/bd5er/Qpage.html">Q-2 page</A>
Leon McAtee


Re: A simple STOL mod for Qs?

Chris McAtee <Subcanis@...>
 

I thought that gap sealing was a bad idea on the Q's- flutter reasons.
HAve I been misinformed?

Chris McAtee

=====================================================
From: "Michael D. Callahan" <micallahan@...>
Reply-To: Q-LIST@...
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] A simple STOL mod for Qs?
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:11:45 -0500

I'm not flying yet, but it sounds plausible. We know there is a
divergent cone at the trailing edge near the fuselage and dropping the
elevator only exacerbates the condition. I'm going to fill the
fuselage/canard intersection vertically and I'm still trying to figure how
to seal the elevator hinge gap. Maybe the inboard end of the elevator could
be extended up under the fuselage like a flap? Don't know about STOL but it
might make it faster (and that's what we like!).

----- Original Message -----
From: Edward N. MacLeod <ed@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 7:10 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] A simple STOL mod for Qs?



For you bored aero intellects out there:

After reading through the archives regarding canard tuft testing and the
associated confusing results, I had a thought about what is going on.

What if high-pressure air, under the canard, at the root, is flowing
around the inboard elevator gap (not the hinge gap) when the elevator
is down? This higher pressure air would tend to fill the low-pressure
area above the elevator. The lower pressure laminar flow air on the top
of the canard would flow over this stationary longitudinal bubble of
higher pressure air, prematurely stalling the canard, root first. There
would be little tendency for the bubble to dissipate as it is not in the
slipstream. A relatively low volume flow through the inboard elevator
gap could maintain the stationary bubble.

It gets worse. I believe the shape of the gap on Qs when the elevator
is down (at least on my Q2) actually directs the air longitudinally
along the top of the elevator!

The hypothesis is: Seal the gap and you significantly reduce
elevator-down stall speed.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Food for thought,

Ed m





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Re: Airflow over the canard

Ted VanMeter <tvanmeter@...>
 

One would probably only need an upper and lower fence on both the outboard
and inboard of the elevator. The vertical dimensions would be dictated by
elevator travel. The gap could then be "sealed" by the little fuzzy strips.
This setup could still utilize a canard to fuselage fairing or fillet. Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Finley <finley@...>
To: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...>
Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 6:13 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Airflow over the canard



Guys,

I've been reading your thoughts and pondering my experiences. I really do
not know what is happening so any ideas that I may offer are only GUESSES!!

I do not recall if my tuft "bank" moves one way or the other when airflow
is
gone/degraded/disturbed/etc BUT I do know that I have one tuft that likes
to
spin in circles almost all the time. It attached in the middle (both
horizontally and vertically) of the left (pilot side) elevator, is about
three inches long, and spins clockwise about the end that is attached to
the
elevator (with a really small piece of fine tape). Next time I fly I will
pay attention to see if there is a direction that all tufts move.

Keep up the discussion - fun stuff!! For all those that are flying - put a
few tufts on your canard and tell us what they are doing!! It takes about
five minutes, is free (unless you don't have tape and
yarn/string/whatever),
and you may learn something about your airplane!
Jon Finley
Q1 N54JF - 1835cc VW
Q2 N90MG - Subaru EA-81 DD Turbo
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://63.90.191.136/Finley/finley-subaru.html



-----Original Message-----
From: Ed MacLeod [mailto:ed@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 7:49 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Airflow over the canard



My Groups | Q-LIST Main Page | Start a new group!


--- In Q-LIST@..., "L Koutz" <koutzl@S...> wrote:
Hi Larry,

I have a hard time dreaming up another expaination for the inboard
flowing tufts. With the elevators down, you get a strong wing tip
vortex at the outer elevator edge. The flow on the top would be
inboard. Seal the outer (and inner?) edges of the elevator and you
eliminate this vortex flow, the tufts should not flow inboard as
readily.
This is why they add droopy wing tips to stol aircraft, to make it
harder for the vortex to roll back onto the trailing edge of the wing
and disrupting the normal airflow over the wing.

As always, I could be wrong.

Ed m



> Ed
>
> I don't read the tufts moving inboard together as a sign that air
is
leaking
> through the outboard elevator/ canard gap. I don't know why they do
this
> just yet.
> Larry
>
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > It sound like the inboard leak phenomenon is occurring at the
> > outboard end of the elevator. Does this agree with your
observations?
> > Perhaps the prop is blasting away the air leaking in at the root
and
> > the outboard leak becomes more significant.
> >
> > Ed m
>




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Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)

Don Stewart <siinc@...>
 

I sent this to the Dragonlist, but thought you might want to see what I
say about you Q-guys behind your back!
------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DFLY: Rides at Ottawa2000
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:03:30 -0700
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
Organization STEWART INSTRUMENTS, INC.
To: dragonlist@...

I repeat: Do not wait to the last moment to try to arrange for rides at
Ottawa. Only the very lucky are able to arrange for DF rides at the
airport. "Well, do you feel lucky, punk?" (Clint Eastwood said it not
me).

Traditionally there are more Q-craft than DFs at Ottawa, and the Q-guys
are a bunch of flying fools (in the good sense), so it is possible to
connect with a two-place Q pilot to get a ride that approximates the DF
experience (of course, they say it's a better experience).

I do not get in the middle of arranging rides at Ottawa. Someone usually
steps up to volunteer to organize a sign-up sheet, but it tain't me. I
have yet to see a sign-up plan that makes everyone happy. But something
is probably better than nothing. I'm still waiting for this year's
volunteer.

With the cooler weather in October we definitely get more air hours than
when we held this thing in September. More air hours means more happy
checkriders. Having the Awards Dinner at the airport means we don't have
to shut air operations down early just to drive cross-town for food,
which means more air hours (see above).

If you can talk a pilot into arriving early (or possibly, staying late),
Friday or Sunday are great times to get checkrides. But it is difficult
to accomplish because pilots are tired when they arrive on Friday and
want to get on their way back home on Sunday. Things you should be aware
of.

Did I mention that the Early Fly-In Registration Discount goes away
after this Friday, then standard Registration rates apply? Did you see
the great list of door prizes?

Best Regards,
Don Stewart
http://www.si-inc.com/Ottawa2000/


Motels

Don Stewart <siinc@...>
 

This was in answer to a question about motels at the Ottawa Fly-In, from
the Dragonlist:

The four or five motels on the website are not all of the motels that
are available. You might want to click on the Ottawa Kansas Chamber site
(or search yahoo.com for "Ottawa Kansas") and call around the
neighborhood. The motels listed are right at the intersection of the
Interstate and the city's main drag. The city is North of the
Interstate, the airport is 1-1/2 miles South of the Interstate.

Hope this helps.

Don
http://www.si-inc.com/Ottawa2000


Re: Airflow over the canard

Don Stewart <siinc@...>
 

Is that what those ridges are, on the Eagle 150B wing?
Don

Ted VanMeter wrote:



One would probably only need an upper and lower fence on both the outboard
and inboard of the elevator. The vertical dimensions would be dictated by
elevator travel. The gap could then be "sealed" by the little fuzzy strips.
This setup could still utilize a canard to fuselage fairing or fillet. Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Finley <finley@...>
To: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...>
Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 6:13 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Airflow over the canard


Guys,

I've been reading your thoughts and pondering my experiences. I really do
not know what is happening so any ideas that I may offer are only GUESSES!!

I do not recall if my tuft "bank" moves one way or the other when airflow
is
gone/degraded/disturbed/etc BUT I do know that I have one tuft that likes
to
spin in circles almost all the time. It attached in the middle (both
horizontally and vertically) of the left (pilot side) elevator, is about
three inches long, and spins clockwise about the end that is attached to
the
elevator (with a really small piece of fine tape). Next time I fly I will
pay attention to see if there is a direction that all tufts move.

Keep up the discussion - fun stuff!! For all those that are flying - put a
few tufts on your canard and tell us what they are doing!! It takes about
five minutes, is free (unless you don't have tape and
yarn/string/whatever),
and you may learn something about your airplane!
Jon Finley
Q1 N54JF - 1835cc VW
Q2 N90MG - Subaru EA-81 DD Turbo
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://63.90.191.136/Finley/finley-subaru.html



-----Original Message-----
From: Ed MacLeod [mailto:ed@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 7:49 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Airflow over the canard



My Groups | Q-LIST Main Page | Start a new group!


--- In Q-LIST@..., "L Koutz" <koutzl@S...> wrote:
Hi Larry,

I have a hard time dreaming up another expaination for the inboard
flowing tufts. With the elevators down, you get a strong wing tip
vortex at the outer elevator edge. The flow on the top would be
inboard. Seal the outer (and inner?) edges of the elevator and you
eliminate this vortex flow, the tufts should not flow inboard as
readily.
This is why they add droopy wing tips to stol aircraft, to make it
harder for the vortex to roll back onto the trailing edge of the wing
and disrupting the normal airflow over the wing.

As always, I could be wrong.

Ed m



> Ed
>
> I don't read the tufts moving inboard together as a sign that air
is
leaking
> through the outboard elevator/ canard gap. I don't know why they do
this
> just yet.
> Larry
>
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > It sound like the inboard leak phenomenon is occurring at the
> > outboard end of the elevator. Does this agree with your
observations?
> > Perhaps the prop is blasting away the air leaking in at the root
and
> > the outboard leak becomes more significant.
> >
> > Ed m
>




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html










To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Quickie Builders Association WEB site
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Re: Airflow over the canard

Jon Finley <finley@...>
 

Guys,

I've been reading your thoughts and pondering my experiences. I really do
not know what is happening so any ideas that I may offer are only GUESSES!!

I do not recall if my tuft "bank" moves one way or the other when airflow is
gone/degraded/disturbed/etc BUT I do know that I have one tuft that likes to
spin in circles almost all the time. It attached in the middle (both
horizontally and vertically) of the left (pilot side) elevator, is about
three inches long, and spins clockwise about the end that is attached to the
elevator (with a really small piece of fine tape). Next time I fly I will
pay attention to see if there is a direction that all tufts move.

Keep up the discussion - fun stuff!! For all those that are flying - put a
few tufts on your canard and tell us what they are doing!! It takes about
five minutes, is free (unless you don't have tape and yarn/string/whatever),
and you may learn something about your airplane!
Jon Finley
Q1 N54JF - 1835cc VW
Q2 N90MG - Subaru EA-81 DD Turbo
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://63.90.191.136/Finley/finley-subaru.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed MacLeod [mailto:ed@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 7:49 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Airflow over the canard



My Groups | Q-LIST Main Page | Start a new group!


--- In Q-LIST@..., "L Koutz" <koutzl@S...> wrote:
Hi Larry,

I have a hard time dreaming up another expaination for the inboard
flowing tufts. With the elevators down, you get a strong wing tip
vortex at the outer elevator edge. The flow on the top would be
inboard. Seal the outer (and inner?) edges of the elevator and you
eliminate this vortex flow, the tufts should not flow inboard as
readily.
This is why they add droopy wing tips to stol aircraft, to make it
harder for the vortex to roll back onto the trailing edge of the wing
and disrupting the normal airflow over the wing.

As always, I could be wrong.

Ed m



> Ed
>
> I don't read the tufts moving inboard together as a sign that air
is
leaking
> through the outboard elevator/ canard gap. I don't know why they do
this
> just yet.
> Larry
>
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > It sound like the inboard leak phenomenon is occurring at the
> > outboard end of the elevator. Does this agree with your
observations?
> > Perhaps the prop is blasting away the air leaking in at the root
and
> > the outboard leak becomes more significant.
> >
> > Ed m
>




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html


Re: Airflow over the canard

Ed MacLeod <ed@...>
 

--- In Q-LIST@..., "L Koutz" <koutzl@S...> wrote:
Hi Larry,

I have a hard time dreaming up another expaination for the inboard
flowing tufts. With the elevators down, you get a strong wing tip
vortex at the outer elevator edge. The flow on the top would be
inboard. Seal the outer (and inner?) edges of the elevator and you
eliminate this vortex flow, the tufts should not flow inboard as
readily.
This is why they add droopy wing tips to stol aircraft, to make it
harder for the vortex to roll back onto the trailing edge of the wing
and disrupting the normal airflow over the wing.

As always, I could be wrong.

Ed m



Ed

I don't read the tufts moving inboard together as a sign that air
is
leaking
through the outboard elevator/ canard gap. I don't know why they do
this
just yet.
Larry

Hi Larry,

It sound like the inboard leak phenomenon is occurring at the
outboard end of the elevator. Does this agree with your
observations?
Perhaps the prop is blasting away the air leaking in at the root
and
the outboard leak becomes more significant.

Ed m


Re: Airflow over the canard

L Koutz <koutzl@...>
 

Ed

I don't read the tufts moving inboard together as a sign that air is leaking
through the outboard elevator/ canard gap. I don't know why they do this
just yet.
Larry

Hi Larry,

It sound like the inboard leak phenomenon is occurring at the
outboard end of the elevator. Does this agree with your observations?
Perhaps the prop is blasting away the air leaking in at the root and
the outboard leak becomes more significant.

Ed m
Ed

I read your theory.

Here is what I have found. This is on a Q-200 (LS-1) canard. I
originally
tufted the whole wing and found the elevator portion of the canard
"stalled"
first. Procceding the elevator stall (tufts lifting and flopping
about) the
tufts all moved inboard in unison on the outboard portion of the
canard
elevator (this is the only portion of the canard I can see from the
cockpit
so I don't know what happens on the inboard portion). This
indicated
to me
that the air after it crossed the elevator gap was a different
animal with a
lot less energy to drive it along the airflow shape. The air moving
inboard
just prior to stall I assumed to be because of the anhedral of the
canard. I
don't know if this is true but at the time it seemed to make sense.
So I
don't think that air leaking between the elevator and fuselage
would
be
moving outboard and cause a bubble. I also filled up the canard gap
with a
foam weatherstrip "seal" since I thought air was leaking through
the
gap and
disturbing the air. The gap seal didn't seem to make a difference
as
the
wing stalled the same.

I have put VG's on the canard starting at the outboard end (about
50% chord
and triangles 1/2" high X 1 1/2" long). these seemed to delay the
elevator
stall. So I added more in 18" sections. The third section I put on
caused
some of the tufts on the elevator to rise up during cruise flight
at
about a
30 degrees from the elevator. This really puzzled me! That's when I
put in
the gap seals. No difference! So here I sit with no clue. Only more
testing
can fill in my information gap and I have been working on some
other
areas
of the plane right now.

Does anyone have any theories on this?

Larry


----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward N. MacLeod" <ed@m...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 8:10 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] A simple STOL mod for Qs?

For you bored aero intellects out there:

After reading through the archives regarding canard tuft testing
and the
associated confusing results, I had a thought about what is going
on.

What if high-pressure air, under the canard, at the root, is
flowing
around the inboard elevator gap (not the hinge gap) when the
elevator
is down? This higher pressure air would tend to fill the
low-pressure
area above the elevator. The lower pressure laminar flow air on
the top
of the canard would flow over this stationary longitudinal bubble
of
higher pressure air, prematurely stalling the canard, root first.
There
would be little tendency for the bubble to dissipate as it is not
in the
slipstream. A relatively low volume flow through the inboard
elevator
gap could maintain the stationary bubble.

It gets worse. I believe the shape of the gap on Qs when the
elevator
is down (at least on my Q2) actually directs the air
longitudinally
along the top of the elevator!

The hypothesis is: Seal the gap and you significantly reduce
elevator-down stall speed.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Food for thought,

Ed m



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