A most excellent job of begging, Chris. Surely someone from the Q group
will take pity on you. What are your vital statistics (Height/Weight)?

Chris Adkins wrote:

OK, I'm openly and shamelessly begging...I need to ride in a Q2 while

there. That's what I'm driving all the way from Ashland, KY for!!!! I

bought a "project" a couple of months ago that had flown about 200 hrs.

a Revmaster, and I'm doing a firewall-forward with a 'vair, but I've

been up in one.

Anybody??? PLEASE???? $$$$$$????

I'm arriving 10/6pm, departing 10/9am

Chris Adkins
ccadkins@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
To: Q-List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 12:57 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)

I sent this to the Dragonlist, but thought you might want to see what

say about you Q-guys behind your back!
------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DFLY: Rides at Ottawa2000
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:03:30 -0700
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
Organization STEWART INSTRUMENTS, INC.
To: dragonlist@...

I repeat: Do not wait to the last moment to try to arrange for rides

Ottawa. Only the very lucky are able to arrange for DF rides at the
airport. "Well, do you feel lucky, punk?" (Clint Eastwood said it not
me).

Traditionally there are more Q-craft than DFs at Ottawa, and the

are a bunch of flying fools (in the good sense), so it is possible to
connect with a two-place Q pilot to get a ride that approximates the

experience (of course, they say it's a better experience).

I do not get in the middle of arranging rides at Ottawa. Someone

steps up to volunteer to organize a sign-up sheet, but it tain't me. I
have yet to see a sign-up plan that makes everyone happy. But

is probably better than nothing. I'm still waiting for this year's
volunteer.

With the cooler weather in October we definitely get more air hours

when we held this thing in September. More air hours means more happy
checkriders. Having the Awards Dinner at the airport means we don't

to shut air operations down early just to drive cross-town for food,
which means more air hours (see above).

If you can talk a pilot into arriving early (or possibly, staying

Friday or Sunday are great times to get checkrides. But it is

to accomplish because pilots are tired when they arrive on Friday and
want to get on their way back home on Sunday. Things you should be

of.

Did I mention that the Early Fly-In Registration Discount goes away
after this Friday, then standard Registration rates apply? Did you see
the great list of door prizes?

Best Regards,
Don Stewart
http://www.si-inc.com/Ottawa2000/


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Gascolator is bad. I hac the same problem 10yrs ago. Changed to car filter
inside cockpit like plans and never had any trouble since,

dave carlson

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For you GU experts out there, a quick VG question:

I noticed on the QBA site
(http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html), the VGs should be
located at the 50% chord.

Another site shows them near the max thickness line,
http://www.si-inc.com/dragonfly/dropbox/vg-place.gif

Unfortunately I put mine at the latter location.

Thanks for the feedback.

Ed m

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Guys,

I've been reading your thoughts and pondering my experiences. I really do
not know what is happening so any ideas that I may offer are only

I do not recall if my tuft "bank" moves one way or the other when airflow

gone/degraded/disturbed/etc BUT I do know that I have one tuft that likes

spin in circles almost all the time. It attached in the middle (both
horizontally and vertically) of the left (pilot side) elevator, is about
three inches long, and spins clockwise about the end that is attached to

elevator (with a really small piece of fine tape). Next time I fly I will
pay attention to see if there is a direction that all tufts move.

Keep up the discussion - fun stuff!! For all those that are flying - put

few tufts on your canard and tell us what they are doing!! It takes about
five minutes, is free (unless you don't have tape and

and you may learn something about your airplane!
Jon Finley
Q1 N54JF - 1835cc VW
Q2 N90MG - Subaru EA-81 DD Turbo
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://63.90.191.136/Finley/finley-subaru.html



-----Original Message-----
From: Ed MacLeod [mailto:ed@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 7:49 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Airflow over the canard



My Groups | Q-LIST Main Page | Start a new group!


--- In Q-LIST@..., "L Koutz" <koutzl@S...> wrote:
Hi Larry,

I have a hard time dreaming up another expaination for the inboard
flowing tufts. With the elevators down, you get a strong wing tip
vortex at the outer elevator edge. The flow on the top would be
inboard. Seal the outer (and inner?) edges of the elevator and you
eliminate this vortex flow, the tufts should not flow inboard as
readily.
This is why they add droopy wing tips to stol aircraft, to make it
harder for the vortex to roll back onto the trailing edge of the wing
and disrupting the normal airflow over the wing.

As always, I could be wrong.

Ed m



> Ed
>
> I don't read the tufts moving inboard together as a sign that air
is
leaking
> through the outboard elevator/ canard gap. I don't know why they do
this
> just yet.
> Larry
>
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > It sound like the inboard leak phenomenon is occurring at the
> > outboard end of the elevator. Does this agree with your
observations?
> > Perhaps the prop is blasting away the air leaking in at the root
and
> > the outboard leak becomes more significant.
> >
> > Ed m
>




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html










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OK, I'm openly and shamelessly begging...I need to ride in a Q2 while I'm
there. That's what I'm driving all the way from Ashland, KY for!!!! I just
bought a "project" a couple of months ago that had flown about 200 hrs. with
a Revmaster, and I'm doing a firewall-forward with a 'vair, but I've never
been up in one.

Anybody??? PLEASE???? $$$$$$????

I'm arriving 10/6pm, departing 10/9am

Chris Adkins
ccadkins@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
To: Q-List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 12:57 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Ottawa2000 Rides (FWD)

I sent this to the Dragonlist, but thought you might want to see what I
say about you Q-guys behind your back!
------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DFLY: Rides at Ottawa2000
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:03:30 -0700
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
Organization STEWART INSTRUMENTS, INC.
To: dragonlist@...

I repeat: Do not wait to the last moment to try to arrange for rides at
Ottawa. Only the very lucky are able to arrange for DF rides at the
airport. "Well, do you feel lucky, punk?" (Clint Eastwood said it not
me).

Traditionally there are more Q-craft than DFs at Ottawa, and the Q-guys
are a bunch of flying fools (in the good sense), so it is possible to
connect with a two-place Q pilot to get a ride that approximates the DF
experience (of course, they say it's a better experience).

I do not get in the middle of arranging rides at Ottawa. Someone usually
steps up to volunteer to organize a sign-up sheet, but it tain't me. I
have yet to see a sign-up plan that makes everyone happy. But something
is probably better than nothing. I'm still waiting for this year's
volunteer.

With the cooler weather in October we definitely get more air hours than
when we held this thing in September. More air hours means more happy
checkriders. Having the Awards Dinner at the airport means we don't have
to shut air operations down early just to drive cross-town for food,
which means more air hours (see above).

If you can talk a pilot into arriving early (or possibly, staying late),
Friday or Sunday are great times to get checkrides. But it is difficult
to accomplish because pilots are tired when they arrive on Friday and
want to get on their way back home on Sunday. Things you should be aware
of.

Did I mention that the Early Fly-In Registration Discount goes away
after this Friday, then standard Registration rates apply? Did you see
the great list of door prizes?

Best Regards,
Don Stewart
http://www.si-inc.com/Ottawa2000/


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html

I sent this to the Dragonlist, but thought you might want to see what I
say about you Q-guys behind your back!
------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DFLY: Rides at Ottawa2000
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:03:30 -0700
From: Don Stewart <siinc@...>
Organization STEWART INSTRUMENTS, INC.
To: dragonlist@...

I repeat: Do not wait to the last moment to try to arrange for rides at
Ottawa. Only the very lucky are able to arrange for DF rides at the
airport. "Well, do you feel lucky, punk?" (Clint Eastwood said it not
me).

Traditionally there are more Q-craft than DFs at Ottawa, and the Q-guys
are a bunch of flying fools (in the good sense), so it is possible to
connect with a two-place Q pilot to get a ride that approximates the DF
experience (of course, they say it's a better experience).

I do not get in the middle of arranging rides at Ottawa. Someone usually
steps up to volunteer to organize a sign-up sheet, but it tain't me. I
have yet to see a sign-up plan that makes everyone happy. But something
is probably better than nothing. I'm still waiting for this year's
volunteer.

With the cooler weather in October we definitely get more air hours than
when we held this thing in September. More air hours means more happy
checkriders. Having the Awards Dinner at the airport means we don't have
to shut air operations down early just to drive cross-town for food,
which means more air hours (see above).

If you can talk a pilot into arriving early (or possibly, staying late),
Friday or Sunday are great times to get checkrides. But it is difficult
to accomplish because pilots are tired when they arrive on Friday and
want to get on their way back home on Sunday. Things you should be aware
of.

Did I mention that the Early Fly-In Registration Discount goes away
after this Friday, then standard Registration rates apply? Did you see
the great list of door prizes?

Best Regards,
Don Stewart
http://www.si-inc.com/Ottawa2000/


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html

For you bored aero intellects out there:

After reading through the archives regarding canard tuft testing and the
associated confusing results, I had a thought about what is going on.

What if high-pressure air, under the canard, at the root, is flowing
around the inboard elevator gap (not the hinge gap) when the elevator
is down? This higher pressure air would tend to fill the low-pressure
area above the elevator. The lower pressure laminar flow air on the top
of the canard would flow over this stationary longitudinal bubble of
higher pressure air, prematurely stalling the canard, root first. There
would be little tendency for the bubble to dissipate as it is not in the
slipstream. A relatively low volume flow through the inboard elevator
gap could maintain the stationary bubble.

It gets worse. I believe the shape of the gap on Qs when the elevator
is down (at least on my Q2) actually directs the air longitudinally
along the top of the elevator!

The hypothesis is: Seal the gap and you significantly reduce
elevator-down stall speed.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Food for thought,

Ed m





To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html

Guys,

I've been reading your thoughts and pondering my experiences. I really do
not know what is happening so any ideas that I may offer are only GUESSES!!

I do not recall if my tuft "bank" moves one way or the other when airflow

gone/degraded/disturbed/etc BUT I do know that I have one tuft that likes

spin in circles almost all the time. It attached in the middle (both
horizontally and vertically) of the left (pilot side) elevator, is about
three inches long, and spins clockwise about the end that is attached to

elevator (with a really small piece of fine tape). Next time I fly I will
pay attention to see if there is a direction that all tufts move.

Keep up the discussion - fun stuff!! For all those that are flying - put a
few tufts on your canard and tell us what they are doing!! It takes about
five minutes, is free (unless you don't have tape and

and you may learn something about your airplane!
Jon Finley
Q1 N54JF - 1835cc VW
Q2 N90MG - Subaru EA-81 DD Turbo
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://63.90.191.136/Finley/finley-subaru.html



-----Original Message-----
From: Ed MacLeod [mailto:ed@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 7:49 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Airflow over the canard



My Groups | Q-LIST Main Page | Start a new group!


--- In Q-LIST@..., "L Koutz" <koutzl@S...> wrote:
Hi Larry,

I have a hard time dreaming up another expaination for the inboard
flowing tufts. With the elevators down, you get a strong wing tip
vortex at the outer elevator edge. The flow on the top would be
inboard. Seal the outer (and inner?) edges of the elevator and you
eliminate this vortex flow, the tufts should not flow inboard as
readily.
This is why they add droopy wing tips to stol aircraft, to make it
harder for the vortex to roll back onto the trailing edge of the wing
and disrupting the normal airflow over the wing.

As always, I could be wrong.

Ed m



> Ed
>
> I don't read the tufts moving inboard together as a sign that air
is
leaking
> through the outboard elevator/ canard gap. I don't know why they do
this
> just yet.
> Larry
>
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > It sound like the inboard leak phenomenon is occurring at the
> > outboard end of the elevator. Does this agree with your
observations?
> > Perhaps the prop is blasting away the air leaking in at the root
and
> > the outboard leak becomes more significant.
> >
> > Ed m
>




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html










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One would probably only need an upper and lower fence on both the outboard
and inboard of the elevator. The vertical dimensions would be dictated by
elevator travel. The gap could then be "sealed" by the little fuzzy strips.
This setup could still utilize a canard to fuselage fairing or fillet. Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Finley <finley@...>
To: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...>
Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 6:13 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Airflow over the canard

Guys,

I've been reading your thoughts and pondering my experiences. I really do
not know what is happening so any ideas that I may offer are only GUESSES!!

I do not recall if my tuft "bank" moves one way or the other when airflow

is

gone/degraded/disturbed/etc BUT I do know that I have one tuft that likes

to

spin in circles almost all the time. It attached in the middle (both
horizontally and vertically) of the left (pilot side) elevator, is about
three inches long, and spins clockwise about the end that is attached to

the

elevator (with a really small piece of fine tape). Next time I fly I will
pay attention to see if there is a direction that all tufts move.

Keep up the discussion - fun stuff!! For all those that are flying - put a
few tufts on your canard and tell us what they are doing!! It takes about
five minutes, is free (unless you don't have tape and

yarn/string/whatever),

and you may learn something about your airplane!
Jon Finley
Q1 N54JF - 1835cc VW
Q2 N90MG - Subaru EA-81 DD Turbo
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://63.90.191.136/Finley/finley-subaru.html



-----Original Message-----
From: Ed MacLeod [mailto:ed@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 7:49 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Airflow over the canard



My Groups | Q-LIST Main Page | Start a new group!


--- In Q-LIST@..., "L Koutz" <koutzl@S...> wrote:
Hi Larry,

I have a hard time dreaming up another expaination for the inboard
flowing tufts. With the elevators down, you get a strong wing tip
vortex at the outer elevator edge. The flow on the top would be
inboard. Seal the outer (and inner?) edges of the elevator and you
eliminate this vortex flow, the tufts should not flow inboard as
readily.
This is why they add droopy wing tips to stol aircraft, to make it
harder for the vortex to roll back onto the trailing edge of the wing
and disrupting the normal airflow over the wing.

As always, I could be wrong.

Ed m



> Ed
>
> I don't read the tufts moving inboard together as a sign that air
is
leaking
> through the outboard elevator/ canard gap. I don't know why they do
this
> just yet.
> Larry
>
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > It sound like the inboard leak phenomenon is occurring at the
> > outboard end of the elevator. Does this agree with your
observations?
> > Perhaps the prop is blasting away the air leaking in at the root
and
> > the outboard leak becomes more significant.
> >
> > Ed m
>




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html










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Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

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http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Hi Larry,

It sound like the inboard leak phenomenon is occurring at the
outboard end of the elevator. Does this agree with your observations?
Perhaps the prop is blasting away the air leaking in at the root and
the outboard leak becomes more significant.

Ed m

Ed

I read your theory.

Here is what I have found. This is on a Q-200 (LS-1) canard. I

originally

tufted the whole wing and found the elevator portion of the canard

"stalled"

first. Procceding the elevator stall (tufts lifting and flopping

about) the

tufts all moved inboard in unison on the outboard portion of the

canard

elevator (this is the only portion of the canard I can see from the

cockpit

so I don't know what happens on the inboard portion). This

indicated
to me

that the air after it crossed the elevator gap was a different

animal with a

lot less energy to drive it along the airflow shape. The air moving

inboard

just prior to stall I assumed to be because of the anhedral of the

canard. I

don't know if this is true but at the time it seemed to make sense.

So I

don't think that air leaking between the elevator and fuselage

would
be

moving outboard and cause a bubble. I also filled up the canard gap

with a

foam weatherstrip "seal" since I thought air was leaking through

the
gap and

disturbing the air. The gap seal didn't seem to make a difference

as
the

wing stalled the same.

I have put VG's on the canard starting at the outboard end (about

50% chord

and triangles 1/2" high X 1 1/2" long). these seemed to delay the

elevator

stall. So I added more in 18" sections. The third section I put on

caused

some of the tufts on the elevator to rise up during cruise flight

at
about a

30 degrees from the elevator. This really puzzled me! That's when I

put in

the gap seals. No difference! So here I sit with no clue. Only more

testing

can fill in my information gap and I have been working on some

other
areas

of the plane right now.

Does anyone have any theories on this?

Larry


----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward N. MacLeod" <ed@m...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 8:10 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] A simple STOL mod for Qs?

For you bored aero intellects out there:

After reading through the archives regarding canard tuft testing

and the

associated confusing results, I had a thought about what is going

on.

What if high-pressure air, under the canard, at the root, is

flowing

around the inboard elevator gap (not the hinge gap) when the

elevator

is down? This higher pressure air would tend to fill the

low-pressure

area above the elevator. The lower pressure laminar flow air on

the top

of the canard would flow over this stationary longitudinal bubble

of

higher pressure air, prematurely stalling the canard, root first.

There

would be little tendency for the bubble to dissipate as it is not

in the

slipstream. A relatively low volume flow through the inboard

elevator

gap could maintain the stationary bubble.

It gets worse. I believe the shape of the gap on Qs when the

elevator

is down (at least on my Q2) actually directs the air

longitudinally

along the top of the elevator!

The hypothesis is: Seal the gap and you significantly reduce
elevator-down stall speed.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Food for thought,

Ed m

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html