Date   

Re: Report of a Q-200 crash today

Mike Dwyer
 

Yes.  Looks like it may go to their materials lab for analysis.
Fly Safe,
Mike Dwyer

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 4:11 PM David J. Gall <David@...> wrote:
Mike, did you notify the FAA since that’s a certified part? They might be interested.

On Apr 8, 2022, at 1:03 PM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:


So an update on my engine failure.  
I got a bit further into the engine tear down and when I pulled the starter, there was the smoking gun.  The starter motor turns a large gear that goes through a sprag clutch into a small gear that drives the crankshaft.  I have a pull starter on mine so this whole mess disengages from the crankshaft gear when you release the pull handle.  My small gear had disintegrated.  I only found about half of it.  The rest is rattling around in the accessory case somewhere, which happens to be located where the oil pump is driven.  Or possibly a piece of hardened steel got into the oil pump and damaged it.  More to follow, but it looks like the root cause was a starter gear failure.  The part was the almost new Niagara Airparts upgraded Sprag Clutch and it had about 100 hours on it!   On the day of the accident, the plane started perfectly.
Mike Dwyer xQ200

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 6:39 AM Adam hied <hiedadam@...> wrote:
Hey mike,

Glad you’re okay. I was really sad about the accident. Was really hoping to get in touch with you and do some formation once I finish the install of the new engine in the dragonfly since I’m over on the east coast and my family lives near brooksville.


Re: Report of a Q-200 crash today

David J. Gall
 

Mike, did you notify the FAA since that’s a certified part? They might be interested.

On Apr 8, 2022, at 1:03 PM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:


So an update on my engine failure.  
I got a bit further into the engine tear down and when I pulled the starter, there was the smoking gun.  The starter motor turns a large gear that goes through a sprag clutch into a small gear that drives the crankshaft.  I have a pull starter on mine so this whole mess disengages from the crankshaft gear when you release the pull handle.  My small gear had disintegrated.  I only found about half of it.  The rest is rattling around in the accessory case somewhere, which happens to be located where the oil pump is driven.  Or possibly a piece of hardened steel got into the oil pump and damaged it.  More to follow, but it looks like the root cause was a starter gear failure.  The part was the almost new Niagara Airparts upgraded Sprag Clutch and it had about 100 hours on it!   On the day of the accident, the plane started perfectly.
Mike Dwyer xQ200

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 6:39 AM Adam hied <hiedadam@...> wrote:
Hey mike,

Glad you’re okay. I was really sad about the accident. Was really hoping to get in touch with you and do some formation once I finish the install of the new engine in the dragonfly since I’m over on the east coast and my family lives near brooksville.


Re: Report of a Q-200 crash today

Paul Fisher
 

I also eliminated the sprag clutch on my key start O-200, but went with the SkyTek starter.  I suspect the B&C starter is better, but the SkyTek didn't require any changes.  Unbolt the old and bolt on the new.  I've got less than 50 hours on it, but so far I'm very happy with it.

I have replaced the sprag clutch multiple times in the last 30+ years.  It would fail "open", so the starter wouldn't turn the engine, it would just slip.  The last time it failed, it failed "closed" such that the starter would continue to spin with the engine running.  That seemed like a failure waiting to happen!  So I got rid of it all together.  I'm much more comfortable with the SkyTek C12ST2.

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 23:05 Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
B and C in Newton, KS makes a light weight starter that eliminates the old Sprag Clutch.  It turns over a lot faster than the old starter.  You will need to modify the firewall cut out a small bit but the starter is a solid player!
Bruce Crain


On Apr 8, 2022, at 3:54 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Thanks for the update, Mike. This is all good stuff to know. Again, sorry about your airplane, but glad you are doing well, and willing to share the results of what you find.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 2:02 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Report of a Q-200 crash today

 

So an update on my engine failure.  

I got a bit further into the engine tear down and when I pulled the starter, there was the smoking gun.  The starter motor turns a large gear that goes through a sprag clutch into a small gear that drives the crankshaft.  I have a pull starter on mine so this whole mess disengages from the crankshaft gear when you release the pull handle.  My small gear had disintegrated.  I only found about half of it.  The rest is rattling around in the accessory case somewhere, which happens to be located where the oil pump is driven.  Or possibly a piece of hardened steel got into the oil pump and damaged it.  More to follow, but it looks like the root cause was a starter gear failure.  The part was the almost new Niagara Airparts upgraded Sprag Clutch and it had about 100 hours on it!   On the day of the accident, the plane started perfectly.

Mike Dwyer xQ200

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 

On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 6:39 AM Adam hied <hiedadam@...> wrote:

Hey mike,

Glad you’re okay. I was really sad about the accident. Was really hoping to get in touch with you and do some formation once I finish the install of the new engine in the dragonfly since I’m over on the east coast and my family lives near brooksville.


Re: Report of a Q-200 crash today

Frankenbird Vern
 

 Investigation on heat treat of starter gears is in order. It is not difficult to Embrittle (thin glass) when heat treating, Mike. Also the heat treat is not done correctly then you have an Annealed gear (peanut butter).  You were fortunate to land off-field away from other folks,,the next fail might NOT be as fortunate. 

  I hope this is not yet another case of Chinese Mystery Metal arriving in the fleet...again!   😒

 My 150B had the same kind of starter on the O-200.  It reminded me of antique tractors but worked well for the decades I owned the Cessna.

Vern  
The Village Idiot werkin in OKC at the LazyB again.    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 11:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Report of a Q-200 crash today
 
B and C in Newton, KS makes a light weight starter that eliminates the old Sprag Clutch.  It turns over a lot faster than the old starter.  You will need to modify the firewall cut out a small bit but the starter is a solid player!
Bruce Crain


On Apr 8, 2022, at 3:54 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Thanks for the update, Mike. This is all good stuff to know. Again, sorry about your airplane, but glad you are doing well, and willing to share the results of what you find.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 2:02 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Report of a Q-200 crash today

 

So an update on my engine failure.  

I got a bit further into the engine tear down and when I pulled the starter, there was the smoking gun.  The starter motor turns a large gear that goes through a sprag clutch into a small gear that drives the crankshaft.  I have a pull starter on mine so this whole mess disengages from the crankshaft gear when you release the pull handle.  My small gear had disintegrated.  I only found about half of it.  The rest is rattling around in the accessory case somewhere, which happens to be located where the oil pump is driven.  Or possibly a piece of hardened steel got into the oil pump and damaged it.  More to follow, but it looks like the root cause was a starter gear failure.  The part was the almost new Niagara Airparts upgraded Sprag Clutch and it had about 100 hours on it!   On the day of the accident, the plane started perfectly.

Mike Dwyer xQ200

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 

On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 6:39 AM Adam hied <hiedadam@...> wrote:

Hey mike,

Glad you’re okay. I was really sad about the accident. Was really hoping to get in touch with you and do some formation once I finish the install of the new engine in the dragonfly since I’m over on the east coast and my family lives near brooksville.


Re: Update on Avionics Progress

Mike Steinsland
 

Ok 
Thanks
I should be able to figure something out.
Sure like the workmanship on that airplane

On Sat., Apr. 9, 2022, 7:58 a.m. Corbin via groups.io, <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Unfortunately, I don’t.  It was a design Mark Summers implemented.
--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Update on Avionics Progress

Corbin
 

Unfortunately, I don’t.  It was a design Mark Summers implemented.
--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Update on Avionics Progress

Mike Steinsland
 

Good observation Jay!
I haven't installed my wing yet and was considering a redesign on the seat belt harness mount.

Corbin, do you know how the core of that crossmember is made?

Cheers from the north....still have snow

On Fri., Apr. 8, 2022, 9:37 p.m. Corbin via groups.io, <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Haha….I’ll just fly inverted to keep the electronics running right.

Martin - looking forward to your Velocity.  There’s one for sale I’ve got my eye on in San Diego.
--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Report of a Q-200 crash today

Bruce Crain
 

B and C in Newton, KS makes a light weight starter that eliminates the old Sprag Clutch.  It turns over a lot faster than the old starter.  You will need to modify the firewall cut out a small bit but the starter is a solid player!
Bruce Crain


On Apr 8, 2022, at 3:54 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Thanks for the update, Mike. This is all good stuff to know. Again, sorry about your airplane, but glad you are doing well, and willing to share the results of what you find.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 2:02 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Report of a Q-200 crash today

 

So an update on my engine failure.  

I got a bit further into the engine tear down and when I pulled the starter, there was the smoking gun.  The starter motor turns a large gear that goes through a sprag clutch into a small gear that drives the crankshaft.  I have a pull starter on mine so this whole mess disengages from the crankshaft gear when you release the pull handle.  My small gear had disintegrated.  I only found about half of it.  The rest is rattling around in the accessory case somewhere, which happens to be located where the oil pump is driven.  Or possibly a piece of hardened steel got into the oil pump and damaged it.  More to follow, but it looks like the root cause was a starter gear failure.  The part was the almost new Niagara Airparts upgraded Sprag Clutch and it had about 100 hours on it!   On the day of the accident, the plane started perfectly.

Mike Dwyer xQ200

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 

On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 6:39 AM Adam hied <hiedadam@...> wrote:

Hey mike,

Glad you’re okay. I was really sad about the accident. Was really hoping to get in touch with you and do some formation once I finish the install of the new engine in the dragonfly since I’m over on the east coast and my family lives near brooksville.


Re: Update on Avionics Progress

Corbin
 

Haha….I’ll just fly inverted to keep the electronics running right.

Martin - looking forward to your Velocity.  There’s one for sale I’ve got my eye on in San Diego.
--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Update on Avionics Progress

Martin Skiby
 

Jay is right.  All the electrons may run backwards now.  Keep an eye out!!

Martin

 


On Apr 8, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Thanks Corbin. Nice to see your progress. You know when you mount the power unit upside down on the wing, you get an inverter.  😉  (a little electrical humor, sorry).

 

I have the bulk of my avionics mounted on the bottom of the wing also. You have an interesting shoulder harness anchor. I wish I had thought of that. You also have the roll servo mounted where I mounted mine. Anxious to hear when you get everything up and running.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 12:59 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Update on Avionics Progress

 

Good afternoon all,

It is a quiet and lazy day so I thought I would give a small update while I am out here at the hangar.  As a reminder, I am doing a new panel with a Garmin G3X, remote comm radio, 2 axis autopilot, full engine monitoring, a Vertical Power system for electronic circuit breakers, and a backup battery.  Oh, and push-button start and rocker switches.

We have all the new wiring run (and harnesses built) to where they need to be.  We have seven of the ten units/boxes mounted.  Hopefully, the remaining three will get mounted by Tuesday of next week and all the wiring tucked away.  With some luck, the new panel will be cut by next weekend and we can start that installation.

A few pics below just cause I have them handy.  I am hopeful everything can be completed by the end of April (of what year, not sure).


  

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Report of a Q-200 crash today

Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks for the update, Mike. This is all good stuff to know. Again, sorry about your airplane, but glad you are doing well, and willing to share the results of what you find.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 2:02 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Report of a Q-200 crash today

 

So an update on my engine failure.  

I got a bit further into the engine tear down and when I pulled the starter, there was the smoking gun.  The starter motor turns a large gear that goes through a sprag clutch into a small gear that drives the crankshaft.  I have a pull starter on mine so this whole mess disengages from the crankshaft gear when you release the pull handle.  My small gear had disintegrated.  I only found about half of it.  The rest is rattling around in the accessory case somewhere, which happens to be located where the oil pump is driven.  Or possibly a piece of hardened steel got into the oil pump and damaged it.  More to follow, but it looks like the root cause was a starter gear failure.  The part was the almost new Niagara Airparts upgraded Sprag Clutch and it had about 100 hours on it!   On the day of the accident, the plane started perfectly.

Mike Dwyer xQ200

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 

On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 6:39 AM Adam hied <hiedadam@...> wrote:

Hey mike,

Glad you’re okay. I was really sad about the accident. Was really hoping to get in touch with you and do some formation once I finish the install of the new engine in the dragonfly since I’m over on the east coast and my family lives near brooksville.


Re: Update on Avionics Progress

Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks Corbin. Nice to see your progress. You know when you mount the power unit upside down on the wing, you get an inverter.  😉  (a little electrical humor, sorry).

 

I have the bulk of my avionics mounted on the bottom of the wing also. You have an interesting shoulder harness anchor. I wish I had thought of that. You also have the roll servo mounted where I mounted mine. Anxious to hear when you get everything up and running.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 12:59 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Update on Avionics Progress

 

Good afternoon all,

It is a quiet and lazy day so I thought I would give a small update while I am out here at the hangar.  As a reminder, I am doing a new panel with a Garmin G3X, remote comm radio, 2 axis autopilot, full engine monitoring, a Vertical Power system for electronic circuit breakers, and a backup battery.  Oh, and push-button start and rocker switches.

We have all the new wiring run (and harnesses built) to where they need to be.  We have seven of the ten units/boxes mounted.  Hopefully, the remaining three will get mounted by Tuesday of next week and all the wiring tucked away.  With some luck, the new panel will be cut by next weekend and we can start that installation.

A few pics below just cause I have them handy.  I am hopeful everything can be completed by the end of April (of what year, not sure).


  

Corbin 
N121CG


Quickie Q 1 kit - $750

Bill Higdon
 

Found this on the Seattle Craigslist https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/avo/d/seattle-quickie-1-kit/7468572565.html


Re: Update on Avionics Progress

Corbin
 
Edited

Those look to be the thermocouple wires:   https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/jpiktypewire.php --

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Update on Avionics Progress

John Frank
 

I am curious as to what type of wire you have connected to the Garmin box in the photo? Specifically the Brown colored wire?

John


On Apr 8, 2022, at 11:58 AM, Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...> wrote:

Good afternoon all,

It is a quiet and lazy day so I thought I would give a small update while I am out here at the hangar.  As a reminder, I am doing a new panel with a Garmin G3X, remote comm radio, 2 axis autopilot, full engine monitoring, a Vertical Power system for electronic circuit breakers, and a backup battery.  Oh, and push-button start and rocker switches.

We have all the new wiring run (and harnesses built) to where they need to be.  We have seven of the ten units/boxes mounted.  Hopefully, the remaining three will get mounted by Tuesday of next week and all the wiring tucked away.  With some luck, the new panel will be cut by next weekend and we can start that installation.

A few pics below just cause I have them handy.  I am hopeful everything can be completed by the end of April (of what year, not sure).


  

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Report of a Q-200 crash today

Mike Dwyer
 

So an update on my engine failure.  
I got a bit further into the engine tear down and when I pulled the starter, there was the smoking gun.  The starter motor turns a large gear that goes through a sprag clutch into a small gear that drives the crankshaft.  I have a pull starter on mine so this whole mess disengages from the crankshaft gear when you release the pull handle.  My small gear had disintegrated.  I only found about half of it.  The rest is rattling around in the accessory case somewhere, which happens to be located where the oil pump is driven.  Or possibly a piece of hardened steel got into the oil pump and damaged it.  More to follow, but it looks like the root cause was a starter gear failure.  The part was the almost new Niagara Airparts upgraded Sprag Clutch and it had about 100 hours on it!   On the day of the accident, the plane started perfectly.
Mike Dwyer xQ200

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 6:39 AM Adam hied <hiedadam@...> wrote:
Hey mike,

Glad you’re okay. I was really sad about the accident. Was really hoping to get in touch with you and do some formation once I finish the install of the new engine in the dragonfly since I’m over on the east coast and my family lives near brooksville.


Update on Avionics Progress

Corbin
 

Good afternoon all,

It is a quiet and lazy day so I thought I would give a small update while I am out here at the hangar.  As a reminder, I am doing a new panel with a Garmin G3X, remote comm radio, 2 axis autopilot, full engine monitoring, a Vertical Power system for electronic circuit breakers, and a backup battery.  Oh, and push-button start and rocker switches.

We have all the new wiring run (and harnesses built) to where they need to be.  We have seven of the ten units/boxes mounted.  Hopefully, the remaining three will get mounted by Tuesday of next week and all the wiring tucked away.  With some luck, the new panel will be cut by next weekend and we can start that installation.

A few pics below just cause I have them handy.  I am hopeful everything can be completed by the end of April (of what year, not sure).


  

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Hot Lap in Fast Glass

Bruce Crain
 

“Yank n bank” Baby! I’ll bet someone on the field was wondering “what is that”!
Bruce

On Apr 6, 2022, at 12:54 AM, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

https://vimeo.com/9013756

This is an old video but I thought it would be fun to post again, since we have some new members.

Jim
N46JP Q200


For the best experience, get the Vimeo app:
Android - https://bit.ly/vimeo_android
iOS - https://bit.ly/vimeo_ios


Sent from Outer Space





Re: Unusual attitude

Dave Dugas
 

Thanks Jay


On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 10:09 PM, Jay Scheevel
<jay@...> wrote:
Hi Dave,

Had friend that I worked with at Chevron in the Bay Area in the late 80’s. He told me that in between high school and college he worked for the outfit in Mojave that built the fuselage shells for Quickie and the early Berkuts. He told me they were using 4.5 ounce BID (2 plies). Not sure where they sourced it from. I have roll (5 oz. I think) that I bought from spruce a few years ago that I use here and there. 

Cheers,
Jay


On Apr 6, 2022, at 7:41 PM, Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2@...> wrote:


Thank you all for the support. I want to remove as much of the oil before I start to cut off the delaminated fiberglass so I don't contaminate the foam. It doesn't feel like the heat caused much of any damage when I push on the fiberglass that has lifted off the belly. It's pretty light weight cloth on the fuselage, so I'm not sure what weight cloth to use when I do the repair.  
Revmaster has finished my new engine and they are running it any day now before it's shipped.
Jon,
Nice picture. Do you think it's possible in a Quickie. I don't want to be the one to find out!!


On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 1:09 PM, Jim Patillo
<Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Hey Dave, 

Nice talking with you recently. Good to hear your voice. 

It looks like your digging’ in. Good luck with your repairs. May they go fast for you. 

Hope to see you in the air soon. 

Jim 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 9:31:56 AM
To: Q. List <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Unusual attitude
 






Preparing to determine the amount of heat and fire damage. Hopefully the foam will be fine. Just stood the fuselage on a frame that I bolted to the engine mounts.
Dave D



Re: Unusual attitude

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Dave,

Had friend that I worked with at Chevron in the Bay Area in the late 80’s. He told me that in between high school and college he worked for the outfit in Mojave that built the fuselage shells for Quickie and the early Berkuts. He told me they were using 4.5 ounce BID (2 plies). Not sure where they sourced it from. I have roll (5 oz. I think) that I bought from spruce a few years ago that I use here and there. 

Cheers,
Jay


On Apr 6, 2022, at 7:41 PM, Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2@...> wrote:


Thank you all for the support. I want to remove as much of the oil before I start to cut off the delaminated fiberglass so I don't contaminate the foam. It doesn't feel like the heat caused much of any damage when I push on the fiberglass that has lifted off the belly. It's pretty light weight cloth on the fuselage, so I'm not sure what weight cloth to use when I do the repair.  
Revmaster has finished my new engine and they are running it any day now before it's shipped.
Jon,
Nice picture. Do you think it's possible in a Quickie. I don't want to be the one to find out!!


On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 1:09 PM, Jim Patillo
<Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Hey Dave, 

Nice talking with you recently. Good to hear your voice. 

It looks like your digging’ in. Good luck with your repairs. May they go fast for you. 

Hope to see you in the air soon. 

Jim 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 9:31:56 AM
To: Q. List <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Unusual attitude
 






Preparing to determine the amount of heat and fire damage. Hopefully the foam will be fine. Just stood the fuselage on a frame that I bolted to the engine mounts.
Dave D


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