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Re: flight report

Mike Dwyer
 

Good trip report.  I got a question tho... what was the dewpoint?  At that temp it would be real easy to get the carb to freeze but shouldn't freeze at high power.  Your fuel doesn't have water in it I hope.  

I had carb icing once.  The engine died on base when I pulled the carb heat.  After that I built a carb temp gauge out of a digital inside outside temp gauge.  Now I can see my carb temp and don't pull the heat unless I need to.

Fly Safe,
Mike Q200 N3QP

On Dec 17, 2017 21:12, "Kevin Boddicker trumanst@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Had the opportinity to take to the air yesterday. The mission was to meet Paul Fisher at DVN for lunch.
Had flown once since signing off my condition inspection and all went well.
Forecast was sunny and 41F winds light and variable.
Arrived at the AP and started the pre heater (hair dryer), did the pre flight, had full fuel. All is good
Fired her up, taxied to 11, did the runup, into position, full power, lift off at 80, All is good.
Climb out at 100, start a right hand turn on coarse, ALL IS BAD!!! Lost partial power! Applied cab heat, cough, sputter, gaining RPM, seems to be full power.
Carb heat off while changing from right turn to left turn (trying to find the AP) to a downwind, still climbing slightly. Power loss again to 2000, 2100 rpm.
Again with the carb heat, off with the fuel pump, PRM increases slowly, but getting better. Back to full power with carb heat on, about 2400 rpm.
200’ below pattern altitude, power back to 1700 rpm (that makes you pucker as well) a bit fast on final, but not a problem. Nice touch down, brake hard to get speed down. Make first intersection and clear the active.

Carb ice is bad shit! Thought I had a handle on this problem a few years back. I had problems then, because the cabin heat box had an overflow hole to let hot air escape. When I applied carb heat, the air would draw from the overflow hole, across the top of the heat muff and into the carb, rather than from the fresh air inlet in the baffling, through the length of the heat muff and into the carb, taking the path of least resistance. When this happened, the air was not warmed sufficiently, and ice could form. Solution. Cover the overflow on the top of the cabin heat box. No problems since.

Back to the story. Did passes down the runway full power. Chopped power and did the second and third. Forth the pass, climb out at 100 to 3000’ and fly around the airport for about 15 min. No sign of that nasty bastard ice! Got on coarse and headed for DVN. Every little noise or bump gets your attention, RIGHT NOW! Took about half the flight to get the edge off. Fair landing at DVN. Taxied to Paul’s hanger. Had a nice lunch. Played with some wires and annunciator boards that Paul had made. Paul got his pre heat going. We both took off from runway 21. Paul followed me for about half the trip home, (just because he could) and turned back. Engine ran fine all the way home and made an excellent LDG at DEH.
Now the to conclusion. Remember the cabin heat box? Wellll, I had turned on cabin heat before taxiing to 11 on my first attempt. Thus allowing the engine to pull air from the cabin, across the heat muff, instead of through the muff, and was not getting hot air on runup. Started to form ice and by the time I was 400’ off the ground bad things happened. When I left DVN, I closed the cabin heat on TO and left it that way all the way home, as it wasn’t too cold. A bit chilly when I got there.
You can draw your own conclusions, but be aware of carb ice. It will make you sit up and take notice!

Merry Christmas

Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B 445 hrs
Luana, IA.
Re: flight report

Sam Hoskins
 

Fun stuff, eh Kevin?

I'm trying to get a handle on your cab heat and cabin heat setup. How about sending a few photos? You have two heat muffs right? There should be one for cabin heat and one for carb heat. The cabin heat will use fresh air from the intake area of the cowling and the carb heat would use simply a muff from the inside of the cowling. Is that what you have?

Sam

On Dec 17, 2017 8:13 PM, "Kevin Boddicker trumanst@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Had the opportinity to take to the air yesterday. The mission was to meet Paul Fisher at DVN for lunch.
Had flown once since signing off my condition inspection and all went well.
Forecast was sunny and 41F winds light and variable.
Arrived at the AP and started the pre heater (hair dryer), did the pre flight, had full fuel. All is good
Fired her up, taxied to 11, did the runup, into position, full power, lift off at 80, All is good.
Climb out at 100, start a right hand turn on coarse, ALL IS BAD!!! Lost partial power! Applied cab heat, cough, sputter, gaining RPM, seems to be full power.
Carb heat off while changing from right turn to left turn (trying to find the AP) to a downwind, still climbing slightly. Power loss again to 2000, 2100 rpm.
Again with the carb heat, off with the fuel pump, PRM increases slowly, but getting better. Back to full power with carb heat on, about 2400 rpm.
200’ below pattern altitude, power back to 1700 rpm (that makes you pucker as well) a bit fast on final, but not a problem. Nice touch down, brake hard to get speed down. Make first intersection and clear the active.

Carb ice is bad shit! Thought I had a handle on this problem a few years back. I had problems then, because the cabin heat box had an overflow hole to let hot air escape. When I applied carb heat, the air would draw from the overflow hole, across the top of the heat muff and into the carb, rather than from the fresh air inlet in the baffling, through the length of the heat muff and into the carb, taking the path of least resistance. When this happened, the air was not warmed sufficiently, and ice could form. Solution. Cover the overflow on the top of the cabin heat box. No problems since.

Back to the story. Did passes down the runway full power. Chopped power and did the second and third. Forth the pass, climb out at 100 to 3000’ and fly around the airport for about 15 min. No sign of that nasty bastard ice! Got on coarse and headed for DVN. Every little noise or bump gets your attention, RIGHT NOW! Took about half the flight to get the edge off. Fair landing at DVN. Taxied to Paul’s hanger. Had a nice lunch. Played with some wires and annunciator boards that Paul had made. Paul got his pre heat going. We both took off from runway 21. Paul followed me for about half the trip home, (just because he could) and turned back. Engine ran fine all the way home and made an excellent LDG at DEH.
Now the to conclusion. Remember the cabin heat box? Wellll, I had turned on cabin heat before taxiing to 11 on my first attempt. Thus allowing the engine to pull air from the cabin, across the heat muff, instead of through the muff, and was not getting hot air on runup. Started to form ice and by the time I was 400’ off the ground bad things happened. When I left DVN, I closed the cabin heat on TO and left it that way all the way home, as it wasn’t too cold. A bit chilly when I got there.
You can draw your own conclusions, but be aware of carb ice. It will make you sit up and take notice!

Merry Christmas

Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B 445 hrs
Luana, IA.
flight report

Kevin Boddicker
 

Had the opportinity to take to the air yesterday. The mission was to meet Paul Fisher at DVN for lunch.
Had flown once since signing off my condition inspection and all went well.
Forecast was sunny and 41F winds light and variable.
Arrived at the AP and started the pre heater (hair dryer), did the pre flight, had full fuel. All is good
Fired her up, taxied to 11, did the runup, into position, full power, lift off at 80, All is good.
Climb out at 100, start a right hand turn on coarse, ALL IS BAD!!! Lost partial power! Applied cab heat, cough, sputter, gaining RPM, seems to be full power.
Carb heat off while changing from right turn to left turn (trying to find the AP) to a downwind, still climbing slightly. Power loss again to 2000, 2100 rpm.
Again with the carb heat, off with the fuel pump, PRM increases slowly, but getting better. Back to full power with carb heat on, about 2400 rpm.
200’ below pattern altitude, power back to 1700 rpm (that makes you pucker as well) a bit fast on final, but not a problem. Nice touch down, brake hard to get speed down. Make first intersection and clear the active.

Carb ice is bad shit! Thought I had a handle on this problem a few years back. I had problems then, because the cabin heat box had an overflow hole to let hot air escape. When I applied carb heat, the air would draw from the overflow hole, across the top of the heat muff and into the carb, rather than from the fresh air inlet in the baffling, through the length of the heat muff and into the carb, taking the path of least resistance. When this happened, the air was not warmed sufficiently, and ice could form. Solution. Cover the overflow on the top of the cabin heat box. No problems since.

Back to the story. Did passes down the runway full power. Chopped power and did the second and third. Forth the pass, climb out at 100 to 3000’ and fly around the airport for about 15 min. No sign of that nasty bastard ice! Got on coarse and headed for DVN. Every little noise or bump gets your attention, RIGHT NOW! Took about half the flight to get the edge off. Fair landing at DVN. Taxied to Paul’s hanger. Had a nice lunch. Played with some wires and annunciator boards that Paul had made. Paul got his pre heat going. We both took off from runway 21. Paul followed me for about half the trip home, (just because he could) and turned back. Engine ran fine all the way home and made an excellent LDG at DEH.
Now the to conclusion. Remember the cabin heat box? Wellll, I had turned on cabin heat before taxiing to 11 on my first attempt. Thus allowing the engine to pull air from the cabin, across the heat muff, instead of through the muff, and was not getting hot air on runup. Started to form ice and by the time I was 400’ off the ground bad things happened. When I left DVN, I closed the cabin heat on TO and left it that way all the way home, as it wasn’t too cold. A bit chilly when I got there.
You can draw your own conclusions, but be aware of carb ice. It will make you sit up and take notice!

Merry Christmas


Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B 445 hrs
Luana, IA.
Re: Torpedo heaters - epoxy contamination?

Bruce McCormack
 

Carbon monoxide is never our friend. It bonds to the red corpuscles blocking them from moving oxygen.
For a better alternative surf up   ‘   Infrared tube heater gas   ‘ 

On 17Dec, 2017, at 16:08, Sanjay@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Is there a problem in using Torpedo heaters in workshop/ hangar while working on composite airplane projects? 

Thanks

Sanjay
Re: Torpedo heaters - epoxy contamination?

sanjay <Sanjay@...>
 

Charlie,  thanks.
 I am considering a Kerosene heater to keep me and the hangar warm, not much epoxy work, but the project is not painted so is there threat of some contamination on composite surface?

For curing epoxy I have been using plastic tenting around layup with space heater inside. 

Thanks
Sanjay

-------- Original message --------
From: "Charlie oneskydog@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 12/17/17 5:40 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Torpedo heaters - epoxy contamination?

 

Like propane or kerosene ?

Propane produces a lot of water vapor, this can react with epoxy cure agents to produce amine blush on the surface of your laminate. Amine blush can be removed by scrubbing with soap and water before sanding. If not removed before sanding it is just spread all over and will compromise subsequent bonding.

Kerosene heaters emit vaporized kerosene as well as water vapor.

I like local plastic tents with electric space heaters like the radiator kind to keep the layup warm untitled cured.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson


On Dec 17, 2017, at 3:08 PM, Sanjay@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

Is there a problem in using Torpedo heaters in workshop/ hangar while working on composite airplane projects? 

Thanks

Sanjay
Re: Torpedo heaters - epoxy contamination?

One Sky Dog
 

Like propane or kerosene ?

Propane produces a lot of water vapor, this can react with epoxy cure agents to produce amine blush on the surface of your laminate. Amine blush can be removed by scrubbing with soap and water before sanding. If not removed before sanding it is just spread all over and will compromise subsequent bonding.

Kerosene heaters emit vaporized kerosene as well as water vapor.

I like local plastic tents with electric space heaters like the radiator kind to keep the layup warm untitled cured.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson


On Dec 17, 2017, at 3:08 PM, Sanjay@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

Is there a problem in using Torpedo heaters in workshop/ hangar while working on composite airplane projects? 

Thanks

Sanjay
Torpedo heaters - epoxy contamination?

Sanjay@...
 

Is there a problem in using Torpedo heaters in workshop/ hangar while working on composite airplane projects? 

Thanks

Sanjay
Re: Update on Quickie Builders Association / Quickheads website

Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks Jon and Dan,

Looks good.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q still building
Re: Pre-buy Checklist

Chris Walterson
 

Shaun-----------  I don't have a Q but on my Dragonfly I needed to reinforce the area where my heals sit.  After about ten years it was a bit hollow. Drilled it, filled it with micro, and glassed multiple layers on top.  I am building a Q200 and this will be incorporated in the canard from the start.  Take care--------------  Chris
Update on Quickie Builders Association / Quickheads website

Jon Matcho
 

Hello,

 

The QBA website has been restored and is back online thanks to Dan’s key assistance.

 

http://www.quickheads.com

 

Looking forward, the site will be reworked into a platform that is better designed for maintenance and upkeep so that situations like these do not happen again.

 

Thank you for your patience and support, and please do not hesitate to let me know of any issues or suggestions.

 

Kind regards,

Jon

 

 

 

Jon Matcho

 

Repairing Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E

Building a Cozy Mark IV+

Quickie Builders Association Administrator www.quickheads.com

Canard Zone Administrator www.canardzone.com

Canard Avaitors Mailing List Administrator https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/canard-aviators

Re: Pre-buy Checklist

Sam Hoskins
 

I will send you my condition inspection checklist. Seven pages.

Sam

On Dec 15, 2017 5:07 PM, "Shaun Milke shaun_milke@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Hi and thanks for the add into the group!

I'm seriously considering buying a Q200 and am having a buddy take a look at the airplane for me this weekend.  I'm pretty familiar with general items to look for during a prebuy, but I was hoping I could get tips for some Q200-specific items to check for.  Common wear items, likely damage locations, service problems, approximate wear limits, etc. and general tips would be extremely helpful.

Thanks!
Shaun
Re: BRS Chute in a Q2

Bruce Crain
 

Re: BRS Chute in a Q2

Bruce Crain
 

Re: Pre-buy Checklist

Patrick Panzera
 

If it's actually a Q-200 it'll have factory-built tapered tubular carbon fiber spars, that are semi-exposed in the cockpit. Be sure to coin-tap test them inside the cockpit.

Pat 

On Dec 15, 2017 3:21 PM, "jay@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Look along the top surface of the canard. Any waviness means probable damage from hard landing (disqualifier unless you want to do extensive repairs).

Check log books and see when it last ran (long down time not a good sign).

check the locations where torque tubes enter the fuselage for any damage to the glass there means wings were over-flexed, not good.

Check cockpit for fuel stains or odors indicating tank leaks.

Check tailwheel assembly for cracks. If it is the original 5/8" fiberglass round rod tailspring, you will probably need to replace.

A positive sign would be if you see separate cables emerging from the fuselage to control the tail wheel and rudder independently. That would mean that a prior owner has been paying attention and has fixed some or all of the deficiencies in original design.

The rest are probably more like regular "plane stuff", or are easily updated.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building
Re: Pre-buy Checklist

Jay Scheevel
 

Look along the top surface of the canard. Any waviness means probable damage from hard landing (disqualifier unless you want to do extensive repairs).

Check log books and see when it last ran (long down time not a good sign).

check the locations where torque tubes enter the fuselage for any damage to the glass there means wings were over-flexed, not good.

Check cockpit for fuel stains or odors indicating tank leaks.

Check tailwheel assembly for cracks. If it is the original 5/8" fiberglass round rod tailspring, you will probably need to replace.

A positive sign would be if you see separate cables emerging from the fuselage to control the tail wheel and rudder independently. That would mean that a prior owner has been paying attention and has fixed some or all of the deficiencies in original design.

The rest are probably more like regular "plane stuff", or are easily updated.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building
Pre-buy Checklist

Shaun Milke
 

Hi and thanks for the add into the group!

I'm seriously considering buying a Q200 and am having a buddy take a look at the airplane for me this weekend.  I'm pretty familiar with general items to look for during a prebuy, but I was hoping I could get tips for some Q200-specific items to check for.  Common wear items, likely damage locations, service problems, approximate wear limits, etc. and general tips would be extremely helpful.

Thanks!
Shaun
Re: BRS Chute in a Q2

Jay Scheevel
 

According to my modeling, once you reach Vmin the only way to arrest the sink rate is with power, so I can see what you are saying Jerry.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building
Re: BRS Chute in a Q2

Larry Severson
 

Not a chance. But, flying the q200 model in X-Plane a lot would help.

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 6:07 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Cc: Jerry Marstall
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] BRS Chute in a Q2

 

 

Another perspective. Would anybody send a non pilot on a solo in a q 200 with only 10 hours of instruction? 

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: "Paul Fisher rv7a.n18pf@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 12/14/17 5:38 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] BRS Chute in a Q2

 

I'm trying to stay out of this ("if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all"), but I will provide some real world numbers.  I've been flying my Q-200 taildragger for 27 years and have about 1,650 hours on it, so I think I can speak authoritatively about my particular airplane.

 

In a typical pattern I slow down to 120mph on downwind.  Abeam the numbers I slow to 100mph.  On short final I slow to 90mph.  My plane stops flying at 80mph, so I always touchdown at or above that number.

 

I have flown 152s.  I can't quote the speeds, but I know things happen considerably faster in my Q-200.  In my opinion anyone who thinks they are about the same has clearly never flown a Q-200 and is doing the community a disservice by implying they are.  Just my opinion.

 

Paul Fisher

Q-200 N17PF

 

On Dec 14, 2017 4:12 PM, "ryan goodman elboy0712@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 Sorry Jay, but that was not what I saw as an apples to apples comparison and here is why. I’m happy to be wrong here, but this is where I was coming from.

Approach speed in a 152 is 55kts(63mph). Jim is correct that I have not flown my Q yet, but my understanding is most come in in the area of 70 for final approach(Though the book says 85 which definitely kills my original comparison). It's also my understanding(correct me if I'm wrong)  that you don't want to stall a q down onto the runway like you can with a Cessna, that you must fly it all the way down to avoid bucking. So, assuming you're flying them both all the way down, those stall numbers are not an accurate comparison, and the final approach numbers should be applied.. That is my logic for the 7mph difference i mentioned and my reason for the comparison on approach speeds.  I wont for a second suggest  that a similar speed= similar skill required to land it. I’m aware that there is a reason it is highly advised that folks get some real dual time with an experienced pilot in a q before forging out alone.

Matt, let me finish that formula for you. You know “Science 101” K.E. = 1/2 m v2 and I will do so with Jays numbers just to keep this on you guys side of the argument.


Cessna 152
Stall Speed Landing Configuration    43 Knots (22m/s)
Wing Area 160 sq. ft.
Gross weight 1670 lb. (757kg)
Wing Loading (gross)    10.43 lbs./sq. ft.
Power Loading    15.2 lbs./hp

Q-200
Stall Speed Landing Configuration    63 Knots (32m/s)
Wing Area 67 sq. ft.
Gross weight 1200 lb. (544kg)
Wing Loading (gross)    17.9 lbs./sq. ft.
Power Loading    12 lbs./hp

 

.5(757) x (22)2 = 183194 kg-m2/s2

.5(544)x(32)2 = 131648 kg-m2/s2

Approach speed in a 152 is 55kts(63mph). Jim is correct that I have not flown my Q yet, but my understanding is most come in on the area of 70 for final approach. It's also my understanding(correct me if I'm wrong)  that you don't want to stall a q down onto the runway like you can with a Cessna, that you must fly out all the way down. So, assuming you're flying them both all the way down, those stall numbers are not an accurate comparison, and the final approach numbers should be applied. 

 

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:54 AM, jay@... [Q-LIST]

<Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Here are the relevant data:

Cessna 152
Stall Speed Landing Configuration    43 Knots
Wing Area 160 sq. ft.
Gross weight 1670 lb.
Wing Loading (gross)    10..43 lbs./sq. ft.
P
Re: BRS Chute in a Q2

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

With AOA I can fly final at 80MPH. However final is with power.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 12/15/17 11:36 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] BRS Chute in a Q2

 

My approach and landing inumbers are the same as Paul’s.

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200
1450 hours on my Q
Re: BRS Chute in a Q2

Jim Patillo
 

My approach and landing inumbers are the same as Paul’s.

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200
1450 hours on my Q
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