Date   

Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is) [1 Attachment]

Matthew Curcio
 

In the interest of being a bit methodical and taking assumptions that the aircraft did not have this issue throughout its previous 235 hours of operations I'm looking at what has changed. What changed was that I replaced all of the fuel line with AN tube, hose and fittings, added the gascolator and associated rerouting of the fuel line. Additionally being that the aircraft sat for 15 years the carb could have some kind of fouling, and the cap could have developed a leak.

I have ruled out that the cap is leaking and ruled out that my modifications to the fuel system are restricting fuel flow in a static condition. That really leaves carb fouling and vapor lock as the primary suspects but can you think of anymore? 

I'm not ruling out the other suggestions and venting phenomena but I don't think they are as likely as if this were a new build. 


On Sep 1, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Dave Dugas davedq2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

One more dart to throw.  Are your fuel lines 3/8”, including the one out of the header tank?  My Q2 has ¼” fuel lines, which satisfies the Revmaster, but I don’t think large enough for the O200.  The original plans called for a ¼” aluminum tubing to be installed in the header tank, to supply the engine.  I hope you find the issue and good luck, be safe…….Dave D

 

From: 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:53 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

 

 

One last throw of the dart at this topic.  There can be a low pressure area behind the exit air of the cowl.  If the tank vent is close to that it can do strange things.

 Also if the tank vent comes out the bottom of the fuselage and makes a bit of a bend back up it can form a P-Trap, like in plumbing, if it fuel sloshes out the tank into the vent tube.  Look at those two things closely.  I put the vent out the top of my header tank for this reason.  Did  Kevin Boddicker make a longer vent tube out of the bottom of his fuselage with a short bend forward to avoid the P-Trap effect?  Help me out here "Special K"!

Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:11:50 +0000

 

I was able to make the maiden flight on the quickie Q200 I have been working on the past couple of months. It has 235 hrs on it but hasn't flown in about 15 years. As I said in an earlier message I had been doing some high speed taxi testing 70-75 mph and felt comfortable. The weather conditions were perfect last night and the airplane and I were ready to go. I spent quite a bit of time flying the chair yesterday and briefing up on a plan with a friend who has a lot of experience doing first flights. Flying wise it went great but I found I have some issues with the engine I need to resolve:

 

Right after takeoff I felt the engine lose a little power it was at that point where you're not high enough to turn around or make another runway and your not low enough to land ahead. I was still climbing but obviously nervous the situation was going to deteriorate. The engine was running smooth the entire time it was just a loss in power. The power seemed to come back at some point but it was not a very noticeable surge. I kept climbing and  turned towards the other runway so I was within glide range if I lost it. I believe it did it two more times. I set up for a landing and brought it in.

 

I was really pleased with the ground handling and flying of the airplane. Take-off run was fine and the landing I thought was very easy. I just flaired and held it right above the runway bleeding off all of the speed until the stick was all the way back and the airplane settled right onto the runway smoothly no bounce or shimmy.

 

Questions:

 

- What do you see on the tach in a climb at 100mph with a stock O-200?

- Thoughts on the cause of the power surge?

 

I'm getting a carb rebuilt kit here asap. I know I'm getting air, I know I'm getting fuel to the carb. That leaves carb and ignition. I think it is most likely that the carb has some build up on the hi speed jet or something to that nature. I discussed this with an experience A&P friend as well and he agreed and said it didn't sound like a mag issue he has ever come across. I know vapor lock could be a concern, I do have a gascolator mounted on the firewall. It is on the far left side and I put a tightly sealed aluminum enclosure around it with a small naca scoop in the cowl pushing cool air in direcetly at the top of the enclosure and then it flow out the bottom. Your thoughts are welcome.

 

 

 

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326

 

 



____________________________________________________________
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Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is) [1 Attachment]

Matthew Curcio
 

There is a 1/4" aluminum tube coming off of the fuel tank. I have a 4" piece of 1/4" hose attached to that and then it bumps up to 3/8" tube the rest of the way. 


On Sep 1, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Dave Dugas davedq2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

One more darts to throw.  Are your fuel lines 3/8”, including the one out of the header tank?  My Q2 has ¼” fuel lines, which satisfies the Revmaster, but I don’t think large enough for the O200.  The original plans called for a ¼” aluminum tubing to be installed in the header tank, to supply the engine.  I hope you find the issue and good luck, be safe…….Dave D

 

From: 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:53 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

 

 

One last throw of the dart at this topic.  There can be a low pressure area behind the exit air of the cowl.  If the tank vent is close to that it can do strange things.

 Also if the tank vent comes out the bottom of the fuselage and makes a bit of a bend back up it can form a P-Trap, like in plumbing, if it fuel sloshes out the tank into the vent tube.  Look at those two things closely.  I put the vent out the top of my header tank for this reason.  Did  Kevin Boddicker make a longer vent tube out of the bottom of his fuselage with a short bend forward to avoid the P-Trap effect?  Help me out here "Special K"!

Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:11:50 +0000

 

I was able to make the maiden flight on the quickie Q200 I have been working on the past couple of months. It has 235 hrs on it but hasn't flown in about 15 years. As I said in an earlier message I had been doing some high speed taxi testing 70-75 mph and felt comfortable. The weather conditions were perfect last night and the airplane and I were ready to go. I spent quite a bit of time flying the chair yesterday and briefing up on a plan with a friend who has a lot of experience doing first flights. Flying wise it went great but I found I have some issues with the engine I need to resolve:

 

Right after takeoff I felt the engine lose a little power it was at that point where you're not high enough to turn around or make another runway and your not low enough to land ahead. I was still climbing but obviously nervous the situation was going to deteriorate. The engine was running smooth the entire time it was just a loss in power. The power seemed to come back at some point but it was not a very noticeable surge. I kept climbing and  turned towards the other runway so I was within glide range if I lost it. I believe it did it two more times. I set up for a landing and brought it in.

 

I was really pleased with the ground handling and flying of the airplane. Take-off run was fine and the landing I thought was very easy. I just flaired and held it right above the runway bleeding off all of the speed until the stick was all the way back and the airplane settled right onto the runway smoothly no bounce or shimmy.

 

Questions:

 

- What do you see on the tach in a climb at 100mph with a stock O-200?

- Thoughts on the cause of the power surge?

 

I'm getting a carb rebuilt kit here asap. I know I'm getting air, I know I'm getting fuel to the carb. That leaves carb and ignition. I think it is most likely that the carb has some build up on the hi speed jet or something to that nature. I discussed this with an experience A&P friend as well and he agreed and said it didn't sound like a mag issue he has ever come across. I know vapor lock could be a concern, I do have a gascolator mounted on the firewall. It is on the far left side and I put a tightly sealed aluminum enclosure around it with a small naca scoop in the cowl pushing cool air in direcetly at the top of the enclosure and then it flow out the bottom. Your thoughts are welcome.

 

 

 

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326

 

 



____________________________________________________________
Affordable Wireless Plans
Set up is easy. Get online in minutes.
Starting at only $14.95 per month!
www.netzero.net

 

<C556A46B0A6143C5BC9CC3D7039154AA.png>


Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

Dave Dugas
 

One more dart to throw.  Are your fuel lines 3/8”, including the one out of the header tank?  My Q2 has ¼” fuel lines, which satisfies the Revmaster, but I don’t think large enough for the O200.  The original plans called for a ¼” aluminum tubing to be installed in the header tank, to supply the engine.  I hope you find the issue and good luck, be safe…….Dave D

 

From: 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:53 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

 

 

One last throw of the dart at this topic.  There can be a low pressure area behind the exit air of the cowl.  If the tank vent is close to that it can do strange things.

 Also if the tank vent comes out the bottom of the fuselage and makes a bit of a bend back up it can form a P-Trap, like in plumbing, if it fuel sloshes out the tank into the vent tube.  Look at those two things closely.  I put the vent out the top of my header tank for this reason.  Did  Kevin Boddicker make a longer vent tube out of the bottom of his fuselage with a short bend forward to avoid the P-Trap effect?  Help me out here "Special K"!

Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]"
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:11:50 +0000

 

I was able to make the maiden flight on the quickie Q200 I have been working on the past couple of months. It has 235 hrs on it but hasn't flown in about 15 years. As I said in an earlier message I had been doing some high speed taxi testing 70-75 mph and felt comfortable. The weather conditions were perfect last night and the airplane and I were ready to go. I spent quite a bit of time flying the chair yesterday and briefing up on a plan with a friend who has a lot of experience doing first flights. Flying wise it went great but I found I have some issues with the engine I need to resolve:

 

Right after takeoff I felt the engine lose a little power it was at that point where you're not high enough to turn around or make another runway and your not low enough to land ahead. I was still climbing but obviously nervous the situation was going to deteriorate. The engine was running smooth the entire time it was just a loss in power. The power seemed to come back at some point but it was not a very noticeable surge. I kept climbing and  turned towards the other runway so I was within glide range if I lost it. I believe it did it two more times. I set up for a landing and brought it in.

 

I was really pleased with the ground handling and flying of the airplane. Take-off run was fine and the landing I thought was very easy. I just flaired and held it right above the runway bleeding off all of the speed until the stick was all the way back and the airplane settled right onto the runway smoothly no bounce or shimmy.

 

Questions:

 

- What do you see on the tach in a climb at 100mph with a stock O-200?

- Thoughts on the cause of the power surge?

 

I'm getting a carb rebuilt kit here asap. I know I'm getting air, I know I'm getting fuel to the carb. That leaves carb and ignition. I think it is most likely that the carb has some build up on the hi speed jet or something to that nature. I discussed this with an experience A&P friend as well and he agreed and said it didn't sound like a mag issue he has ever come across. I know vapor lock could be a concern, I do have a gascolator mounted on the firewall. It is on the far left side and I put a tightly sealed aluminum enclosure around it with a small naca scoop in the cowl pushing cool air in direcetly at the top of the enclosure and then it flow out the bottom. Your thoughts are welcome.

 

 

 

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326

 

 



____________________________________________________________
Affordable Wireless Plans
Set up is easy. Get online in minutes.
Starting at only $14.95 per month!
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Tri-Q for sale

Jay Foss
 


Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

Mike Dwyer
 

Back 30 years ago I blew up a baloon, attached it to my fuel vent under the wing with a rubber band and in the morning I still had an inflated baloon.  Thus no leak in the entire system...

I'm going to the airport soon.  Will get a picture of my fuel vent location.

Fly Safe,
Mike Q200 N3QP

On Sep 1, 2017 9:30 AM, "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

My gas cap is a rubber pipe plug style. I wrapped some heavy plastic on the outside of the neck and put some heavy rubber bands over that to act as a diaphragm and ensure there is no chance of a leak. I took it up for another test flight hoping this solved the problem and at first it seemed better but then no bueno. I coaxed it up to 2k feet and flew it around for probably 15 minutes and it runs just fine at lower power setting but as soon as you go full power after about 20 seconds the rpms drop to about 2050 and it won't come back until you bring the power back a bit. It is very evident that it is lean at this point. At the higher altitude I was more comfortable playing around with things. Its hard to tell exactly what rpm I am getting because the gauge is small and there is a lot of parallax, as it is on the right side of the dash. It looked like it was getting 2400rpm in the climb, at 100mph indicated - I am getting  1000 fpm climb there at 920lb gross TO weight and I though it would do better than that.


I feel confident now that it is not a venting issue related to the vacuum on the fill side of the tank. I am going to ground it until I can duplicate the problem on the ground and / or complete some thorough static testing. It seems clear that it is fuel starvation at high power settings and nose high attitudes. I regret not checking if it would still do it in a more level attitude. When I checked static fuel flow in the 3 point attitude a couple of months back I was getting about 20gph and I believe as Jim indicated that 15 gph is the minimum (10gph is the max fuel consumption at full throttle for the O-200 per the manual). My plan for now is to make up a big test cowl like used for run-in so that I can tie the airplane down and run it long enough to hopefully get the problem to occur. I would like to remove the gascolator from the system but I am not comfortable flying another test before doing some thorough static testing. I am confident if it is vapor lock that it will not occur on the ground. Extensive static testing will at least rule out some of the potential causes for fuel starvation; then, I will be left with the aerodynamic venting issues and vapor lock.


I wish I had a nice 3 mile long runway so I could feel more comfortable with an engine failure shortly after take off. I could rig up a pressure / vacuum gauge to read a few inches of WC into the header tank that would be the tell all for the venting issue.


On a related-unrelated note, the engine doesn't seem to be developing full power but that may be a function of the propeller pitch. What kind of climb rate can you get at around 900lbs? 


Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326





From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...> on behalf of 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)
 
 

One last throw of the dart at this topic.  There can be a low pressure area behind the exit air of the cowl.  If the tank vent is close to that it can do strange things.
 Also if the tank vent comes out the bottom of the fuselage and makes a bit of a bend back up it can form a P-Trap, like in plumbing, if it fuel sloshes out the tank into the vent tube.  Look at those two things closely.  I put the vent out the top of my header tank for this reason.  Did  Kevin Boddicker make a longer vent tube out of the bottom of his fuselage with a short bend forward to avoid the P-Trap effect?  Help me out here "Special K"!
Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:11:50 +0000

 

I was able to make the maiden flight on the quickie Q200 I have been working on the past couple of months. It has 235 hrs on it but hasn't flown in about 15 years. As I said in an earlier message I had been doing some high speed taxi testing 70-75 mph and felt comfortable. The weather conditions were perfect last night and the airplane and I were ready to go. I spent quite a bit of time flying the chair yesterday and briefing up on a plan with a friend who has a lot of experience doing first flights. Flying wise it went great but I found I have some issues with the engine I need to resolve:

 

Right after takeoff I felt the engine lose a little power it was at that point where you're not high enough to turn around or make another runway and your not low enough to land ahead. I was still climbing but obviously nervous the situation was going to deteriorate. The engine was running smooth the entire time it was just a loss in power. The power seemed to come back at some point but it was not a very noticeable surge. I kept climbing and  turned towards the other runway so I was within glide range if I lost it. I believe it did it two more times. I set up for a landing and brought it in.

 

I was really pleased with the ground handling and flying of the airplane. Take-off run was fine and the landing I thought was very easy. I just flaired and held it right above the runway bleeding off all of the speed until the stick was all the way back and the airplane settled right onto the runway smoothly no bounce or shimmy.

 

Questions:

 

- What do you see on the tach in a climb at 100mph with a stock O-200?

- Thoughts on the cause of the power surge?

 

I'm getting a carb rebuilt kit here asap. I know I'm getting air, I know I'm getting fuel to the carb. That leaves carb and ignition. I think it is most likely that the carb has some build up on the hi speed jet or something to that nature. I discussed this with an experience A&P friend as well and he agreed and said it didn't sound like a mag issue he has ever come across. I know vapor lock could be a concern, I do have a gascolator mounted on the firewall. It is on the far left side and I put a tightly sealed aluminum enclosure around it with a small naca scoop in the cowl pushing cool air in direcetly at the top of the enclosure and then it flow out the bottom. Your thoughts are welcome.

 

 

 

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326


 



____________________________________________________________
Affordable Wireless Plans
Set up is easy. Get online in minutes.
Starting at only $14.95 per month!
www.netzero.net


Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

Matthew Curcio
 

My gas cap is a rubber pipe plug style. I wrapped some heavy plastic on the outside of the neck and put some heavy rubber bands over that to act as a diaphragm and ensure there is no chance of a leak. I took it up for another test flight hoping this solved the problem and at first it seemed better but then no bueno. I coaxed it up to 2k feet and flew it around for probably 15 minutes and it runs just fine at lower power setting but as soon as you go full power after about 20 seconds the rpms drop to about 2050 and it won't come back until you bring the power back a bit. It is very evident that it is lean at this point. At the higher altitude I was more comfortable playing around with things. Its hard to tell exactly what rpm I am getting because the gauge is small and there is a lot of parallax, as it is on the right side of the dash. It looked like it was getting 2400rpm in the climb, at 100mph indicated - I am getting  1000 fpm climb there at 920lb gross TO weight and I though it would do better than that.


I feel confident now that it is not a venting issue related to the vacuum on the fill side of the tank. I am going to ground it until I can duplicate the problem on the ground and / or complete some thorough static testing. It seems clear that it is fuel starvation at high power settings and nose high attitudes. I regret not checking if it would still do it in a more level attitude. When I checked static fuel flow in the 3 point attitude a couple of months back I was getting about 20gph and I believe as Jim indicated that 15 gph is the minimum (10gph is the max fuel consumption at full throttle for the O-200 per the manual). My plan for now is to make up a big test cowl like used for run-in so that I can tie the airplane down and run it long enough to hopefully get the problem to occur. I would like to remove the gascolator from the system but I am not comfortable flying another test before doing some thorough static testing. I am confident if it is vapor lock that it will not occur on the ground. Extensive static testing will at least rule out some of the potential causes for fuel starvation; then, I will be left with the aerodynamic venting issues and vapor lock.


I wish I had a nice 3 mile long runway so I could feel more comfortable with an engine failure shortly after take off. I could rig up a pressure / vacuum gauge to read a few inches of WC into the header tank that would be the tell all for the venting issue.


On a related-unrelated note, the engine doesn't seem to be developing full power but that may be a function of the propeller pitch. What kind of climb rate can you get at around 900lbs? 


Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326





From: Q-LIST@... on behalf of 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)
 
 

One last throw of the dart at this topic.  There can be a low pressure area behind the exit air of the cowl.  If the tank vent is close to that it can do strange things.
 Also if the tank vent comes out the bottom of the fuselage and makes a bit of a bend back up it can form a P-Trap, like in plumbing, if it fuel sloshes out the tank into the vent tube.  Look at those two things closely.  I put the vent out the top of my header tank for this reason.  Did  Kevin Boddicker make a longer vent tube out of the bottom of his fuselage with a short bend forward to avoid the P-Trap effect?  Help me out here "Special K"!
Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]"
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:11:50 +0000

 

I was able to make the maiden flight on the quickie Q200 I have been working on the past couple of months. It has 235 hrs on it but hasn't flown in about 15 years. As I said in an earlier message I had been doing some high speed taxi testing 70-75 mph and felt comfortable. The weather conditions were perfect last night and the airplane and I were ready to go. I spent quite a bit of time flying the chair yesterday and briefing up on a plan with a friend who has a lot of experience doing first flights. Flying wise it went great but I found I have some issues with the engine I need to resolve:

 

Right after takeoff I felt the engine lose a little power it was at that point where you're not high enough to turn around or make another runway and your not low enough to land ahead. I was still climbing but obviously nervous the situation was going to deteriorate. The engine was running smooth the entire time it was just a loss in power. The power seemed to come back at some point but it was not a very noticeable surge. I kept climbing and  turned towards the other runway so I was within glide range if I lost it. I believe it did it two more times. I set up for a landing and brought it in.

 

I was really pleased with the ground handling and flying of the airplane. Take-off run was fine and the landing I thought was very easy. I just flaired and held it right above the runway bleeding off all of the speed until the stick was all the way back and the airplane settled right onto the runway smoothly no bounce or shimmy.

 

Questions:

 

- What do you see on the tach in a climb at 100mph with a stock O-200?

- Thoughts on the cause of the power surge?

 

I'm getting a carb rebuilt kit here asap. I know I'm getting air, I know I'm getting fuel to the carb. That leaves carb and ignition. I think it is most likely that the carb has some build up on the hi speed jet or something to that nature. I discussed this with an experience A&P friend as well and he agreed and said it didn't sound like a mag issue he has ever come across. I know vapor lock could be a concern, I do have a gascolator mounted on the firewall. It is on the far left side and I put a tightly sealed aluminum enclosure around it with a small naca scoop in the cowl pushing cool air in direcetly at the top of the enclosure and then it flow out the bottom. Your thoughts are welcome.

 

 

 

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326


 



____________________________________________________________
Affordable Wireless Plans
Set up is easy. Get online in minutes.
Starting at only $14.95 per month!
www.netzero.net


Re: New video - Finishing Composite Aircraft using the Epoxy Wipe method

Paul Fisher
 

We're sorry you are going miss the FOD too.  Keep healing my friend!

Paul

On Sep 1, 2017 06:36, "Jerry Marstall jnmarstall@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Absolutely outstanding demo.  After seeing your demo years ago I continue to use it - even on small repairs.

I'm getting better every minute.   Really pissed about missing FOD.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 8/31/17 2:04 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Quickie List <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: [Q-LIST] New video - Finishing Composite Aircraft using the Epoxy Wipe method

 

Hi Guys.

Just uploaded a 20 minute video on how I use the epoxy wipe method on my aircraft.  I hope you find it useful.


Thanks.

Sam Hoskins
Q-200
Just passed 2,000 hours.


Re: New video - Finishing Composite Aircraft using the Epoxy Wipe method

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Absolutely outstanding demo.  After seeing your demo years ago I continue to use it - even on small repairs.

I'm getting better every minute.   Really pissed about missing FOD.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 8/31/17 2:04 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Quickie List <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: [Q-LIST] New video - Finishing Composite Aircraft using the Epoxy Wipe method

 

Hi Guys.

Just uploaded a 20 minute video on how I use the epoxy wipe method on my aircraft.  I hope you find it useful.


Thanks.

Sam Hoskins
Q-200
Just passed 2,000 hours.


Re: New video - Finishing Composite Aircraft using the Epoxy Wipe method

Sam Hoskins
 

Thanks Rob.

 Over the years I've tried to describe this the folks realized it would be much more descriptive if I had some type of video. The epoxy wipe method works so much better than any other thing that I've tried in the past.

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.

On Sep 1, 2017 5:43 AM, "Rob de Bie robdebie@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Sam, thanks for this great instructional video! I hope to try it soon.

Rob

At 20:04 31 08 2017, you wrote:
>Hi Guys.
>
>Just uploaded a 20 minute video on how I use the
>epoxy wipe method on my aircraft. I hope you find it useful.
>
><https://youtu.be/43K1qwoHbnc>https://youtu.be/43K1qwoHbnc
>
>Thanks.
>
>Sam Hoskins
>Q-200
>Just passed 2,000 hours.
>
>
>


Re: New video - Finishing Composite Aircraft using the Epoxy Wipe method

Rob de Bie
 

Sam, thanks for this great instructional video! I hope to try it soon.

Rob

At 20:04 31 08 2017, you wrote:
Hi Guys.

Just uploaded a 20 minute video on how I use the
epoxy wipe method on my aircraft. I hope you find it useful.

<https://youtu.be/43K1qwoHbnc>https://youtu.be/43K1qwoHbnc

Thanks.

Sam Hoskins
Q-200
Just passed 2,000 hours.



Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

Bruce Crain
 


Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

Jim Patillo
 

Charlie is 100% right on the glass filters. One of our fellow Dragonfly guys, Tim had it happen to him on a return trip to Southern California. I actually flew over to Modesto to help when he called.

The filter elements looked white and clean but when I took them apart, you could not blow through the elements. Fram makes nice big plastic ones that don't clog up like the smaller glass ones.

If you haven't done so, you need to do fuel flow tests with your plane in a climb and static position. For the Q200 if I remember correctly, the FAA calls for 1.5x the max fuel burn per hour to the carb. You probably want to see a minimum of about 15 gallons per hour to the carb (gravity flow from header to carburetor).

Jim
N46JP Q200


Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

One Sky Dog
 

Speaking of fuel filters check for the small glass hot rod filters, if found replace with larger pleated filter. The plastic filter clogs with glass fiber and it is invisible but will put you n the ground.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson


On Aug 31, 2017, at 9:49 AM, jay@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

Mathew,

Since everyone keyed in on the most likely problem (fuel cap), I will give you another area to check. The fuel filter, it probably needs to be changed. Old ones can gel up and debris if there is loose debris it can cause erratic response depending on fuel flow rate. The other potential item is water, as soon as you rotate into take off attitude, water that may have been pooled in the system could move into the fuel stream. The fact that you have a gascolator makes this unlikely though. I would suggest as Jim and Phil did that you dump the gascolator. I put a hardline straight through instead.  You will not have problems with water in Mojave, and if there is potential for heat soak and vapor lock, it will be compounded once you are operating there. Congratulations on the Scaled job. That would be my dream job, if I had to start over.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, Still building...but happy ;-)


Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

Matthew Curcio
 

I did a very thorough inspection on the engine prior to flying it and I did remove and inspect the intake tubes as part of that. I was pleasantly surprised by the condition of them and I am confident they are in place and secure.


I feel like an idiot saying this but I did not do a static run up to WOT. I will do that prior to flying it again just to see if anything peculiar shows up.


I wasn't really looking at the dash much but as I recall the RPM's were in the 2400 range in the climb and I was just over 1k fpm on the climb. The whole engine not running properly right after take off kind of dictates that your eyes be out the cockpit the entire time - a video camera would have helped with that info.


Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326





From: Q-LIST@... on behalf of logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 3:11 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)
 
 

Mathew,

You should also check or replace intake rubber tubes. Clamps may be loose or rubber no good. This can cause similar issues. Did you tie your plane down and do static run up prior to first flight?

Paul is right! Prop/mfg will define RPM. I have a 60/72 Catto prop. Turns 2350 RPM down the runway. If you have a 60/66 Warnke it should turn around 2450 RPM from my experience. Either way you have sufficient power to launch.

Congratulations and be very careful in your flight test program. This AC can kick your butt quickly.

Jim
N46JP Q200


Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

sanjay <Sanjay@...>
 

Congrats Matt,  on the first flight, and the job at Scaled...
What were your rpms on take off,  and your climb rate?
What we're your rpms on static run up? 
I recall experiencing similar symptoms on a very steep climb out on a hot day, and recovered leveling out along with carb heat, as counter intuitive as that sounds. 
Sanjay



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO


-------- Original message --------
From: "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 08/31/2017 9:36 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

 

The sister ship to this airplane had a a venting problem. Cap had a crack in it and that was causing the negative pressure problem as described. The replaced caps on both airplanes with a rubber compression type of cap. (Seems to be very well sealed) and flaired the vent out. 

I agree on how insanely expensive carb kits are. I have one coming and can always return it if need be. I'm in a bit of a time crunch. Long story short a chance encounter at Oshkosh got me an engineering job at scaled composites and I start the 18th. I would really like to be able to fly this airplane out there when ready and not ship it but obviously I need to fly it a good amount before doing that. I'm not rushing anything but I'm definitely not wasting any time. 


On Aug 31, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Mike Dwyer q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Power loss on takeoff.
It's possible your fuel system is not sealed well.  The idea is that ram air pressure comes in the fuel vent tube.  It pressurizes the fuel tank and you get good fuel flow.  If your fuel tank lid is vented I think the air flow past it causes a vacuum and you lose fuel flow.  I found I had more power by pulling back the throttle a bit when it happened to me.  Could also be that you put your fuel vent in a poor location.  I measured where the factory Q200 had its vent and put mine there.  Now your going to ask for the numbers....that was 30 years ago.  I'll have to dig it out....

Carb rebuild kits are crazy expensive.  Don't go there yet.

Great job on first flight!
Make N3QP Q200


On Aug 31, 2017 8:11 AM, "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I was able to make the maiden flight on the quickie Q200 I have been working on the past couple of months. It has 235 hrs on it but hasn't flown in about 15 years. As I said in an earlier message I had been doing some high speed taxi testing 70-75 mph and felt comfortable. The weather conditions were perfect last night and the airplane and I were ready to go. I spent quite a bit of time flying the chair yesterday and briefing up on a plan with a friend who has a lot of experience doing first flights. Flying wise it went great but I found I have some issues with the engine I need to resolve:


Right after takeoff I felt the engine lose a little power it was at that point where you're not high enough to turn around or make another runway and your not low enough to land ahead. I was still climbing but obviously nervous the situation was going to deteriorate. The engine was running smooth the entire time it was just a loss in power. The power seemed to come back at some point but it was not a very noticeable surge. I kept climbing and  turned towards the other runway so I was within glide range if I lost it. I believe it did it two more times. I set up for a landing and brought it in.


I was really pleased with the ground handling and flying of the airplane. Take-off run was fine and the landing I thought was very easy. I just flaired and held it right above the runway bleeding off all of the speed until the stick was all the way back and the airplane settled right onto the runway smoothly no bounce or shimmy.


Questions:


- What do you see on the tach in a climb at 100mph with a stock O-200?

- Thoughts on the cause of the power surge?


I'm getting a carb rebuilt kit here asap. I know I'm getting air, I know I'm getting fuel to the carb. That leaves carb and ignition. I think it is most likely that the carb has some build up on the hi speed jet or something to that nature. I discussed this with an experience A&P friend as well and he agreed and said it didn't sound like a mag issue he has ever come across. I know vapor lock could be a concern, I do have a gascolator mounted on the firewall. It is on the far left side and I put a tightly sealed aluminum enclosure around it with a small naca scoop in the cowl pushing cool air in direcetly at the top of the enclosure and then it flow out the bottom. Your thoughts are welcome.




Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326




Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

Jim Patillo
 

Mathew,

You should also check or replace intake rubber tubes. Clamps may be loose or rubber no good. This can cause similar issues. Did you tie your plane down and do static run up prior to first flight?

Paul is right! Prop/mfg will define RPM. I have a 60/72 Catto prop. Turns 2350 RPM down the runway. If you have a 60/66 Warnke it should turn around 2450 RPM from my experience. Either way you have sufficient power to launch.

Congratulations and be very careful in your flight test program. This AC can kick your butt quickly.

Jim
N46JP Q200


New video - Finishing Composite Aircraft using the Epoxy Wipe method

Sam Hoskins
 

Hi Guys.

Just uploaded a 20 minute video on how I use the epoxy wipe method on my aircraft.  I hope you find it useful.


Thanks.

Sam Hoskins
Q-200
Just passed 2,000 hours.


Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

Jay Scheevel
 

Mathew,

Since everyone keyed in on the most likely problem (fuel cap), I will give you another area to check. The fuel filter, it probably needs to be changed. Old ones can gel up and debris if there is loose debris it can cause erratic response depending on fuel flow rate. The other potential item is water, as soon as you rotate into take off attitude, water that may have been pooled in the system could move into the fuel stream. The fact that you have a gascolator makes this unlikely though. I would suggest as Jim and Phil did that you dump the gascolator. I put a hardline straight through instead.  You will not have problems with water in Mojave, and if there is potential for heat soak and vapor lock, it will be compounded once you are operating there. Congratulations on the Scaled job. That would be my dream job, if I had to start over.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, Still building...but happy ;-)


Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

ryan goodman
 

May I ask if this setup needs to be changed from stock for fuel injection?


On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]
wrote:
 

Mathew, it sounds like issues myself and others have had with fuel tank venting. Look at the fuel filler cap.  It should be constructed so no air passes through it. If the cap leaks, the low pressure on the outside of the fuselage is "delivered" to the fuel tank, reducing the pressure that helps deliver fuel to the carb.  If you have the plans filler cap made out of a plastic bottle, ground the aircraft until you have installed something that does not leak. 

Also verify that the header tank vent is functioning and that ram air pressure is delivered to the header tank, per plans.

Sam

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 7:13 AM Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I was able to make the maiden flight on the quickie Q200 I have been working on the past couple of months. It has 235 hrs on it but hasn't flown in about 15 years. As I said in an earlier message I had been doing some high speed taxi testing 70-75 mph and felt comfortable. The weather conditions were perfect last night and the airplane and I were ready to go. I spent quite a bit of time flying the chair yesterday and briefing up on a plan with a friend who has a lot of experience doing first flights. Flying wise it went great but I found I have some issues with the engine I need to resolve:


Right after takeoff I felt the engine lose a little power it was at that point where you're not high enough to turn around or make another runway and your not low enough to land ahead. I was still climbing but obviously nervous the situation was going to deteriorate. The engine was running smooth the entire time it was just a loss in power. The power seemed to come back at some point but it was not a very noticeable surge. I kept climbing and  turned towards the other runway so I was within glide range if I lost it. I believe it did it two more times. I set up for a landing and brought it in.


I was really pleased with the ground handling and flying of the airplane. Take-off run was fine and the landing I thought was very easy. I just flaired and held it right above the runway bleeding off all of the speed until the stick was all the way back and the airplane settled right onto the runway smoothly no bounce or shimmy.


Questions:


- What do you see on the tach in a climb at 100mph with a stock O-200?

- Thoughts on the cause of the power surge?


I'm getting a carb rebuilt kit here asap. I know I'm getting air, I know I'm getting fuel to the carb. That leaves carb and ignition. I think it is most likely that the carb has some build up on the hi speed jet or something to that nature. I discussed this with an experience A&P friend as well and he agreed and said it didn't sound like a mag issue he has ever come across. I know vapor lock could be a concern, I do have a gascolator mounted on the firewall. It is on the far left side and I put a tightly sealed aluminum enclosure around it with a small naca scoop in the cowl pushing cool air in direcetly at the top of the enclosure and then it flow out the bottom. Your thoughts are welcome.




Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326



Re: Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

Matthew Curcio
 

I will definitely be looking into the fuel system sealing first thing. I know that the original plans plastic cap is not being used and the one that is on there is a rubber compression cap. I don't think it would have any potential to leak but I obviously need to inspect more closely and I will double check the touting on the vent line and confirm that it is clear. 


On Aug 31, 2017, at 9:45 AM, Paul Fisher rv7a.n18pf@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Congratulations Matthew!  A successful first flight is a huge accomplishment.

For your surge issue, I would also check the fuel system.  We have had folks who lost power because they had a loose or cracked fuel cap.  The fuel vent slightly pressurizes the tank to give you a little more head pressure at the carburetor.  Just one more thing to check.

RPM on climb is very dependent on the propeller.  I get about 2400.  You will need to learn what is "normal" for you.

Good luck on your test flights.  Please keep us informed.

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF ~1650 hours


On Aug 31, 2017 7:13 AM, "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I was able to make the maiden flight on the quickie Q200 I have been working on the past couple of months. It has 235 hrs on it but hasn't flown in about 15 years. As I said in an earlier message I had been doing some high speed taxi testing 70-75 mph and felt comfortable. The weather conditions were perfect last night and the airplane and I were ready to go. I spent quite a bit of time flying the chair yesterday and briefing up on a plan with a friend who has a lot of experience doing first flights. Flying wise it went great but I found I have some issues with the engine I need to resolve:


Right after takeoff I felt the engine lose a little power it was at that point where you're not high enough to turn around or make another runway and your not low enough to land ahead. I was still climbing but obviously nervous the situation was going to deteriorate. The engine was running smooth the entire time it was just a loss in power. The power seemed to come back at some point but it was not a very noticeable surge. I kept climbing and  turned towards the other runway so I was within glide range if I lost it. I believe it did it two more times. I set up for a landing and brought it in.


I was really pleased with the ground handling and flying of the airplane. Take-off run was fine and the landing I thought was very easy. I just flaired and held it right above the runway bleeding off all of the speed until the stick was all the way back and the airplane settled right onto the runway smoothly no bounce or shimmy.


Questions:


- What do you see on the tach in a climb at 100mph with a stock O-200?

- Thoughts on the cause of the power surge?


I'm getting a carb rebuilt kit here asap. I know I'm getting air, I know I'm getting fuel to the carb. That leaves carb and ignition. I think it is most likely that the carb has some build up on the hi speed jet or something to that nature. I discussed this with an experience A&P friend as well and he agreed and said it didn't sound like a mag issue he has ever come across. I know vapor lock could be a concern, I do have a gascolator mounted on the firewall. It is on the far left side and I put a tightly sealed aluminum enclosure around it with a small naca scoop in the cowl pushing cool air in direcetly at the top of the enclosure and then it flow out the bottom. Your thoughts are welcome.




Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326



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