Re: Flush Type Finishing Washer Used on Tail?
This is true.. the current folks have equipment not available to us in the past. In the previous factory contracts I was working in 2021, because it is production,
they must keep pace using tools as this.. same as on the ramps. The speeds of the drivers are variable and auto torque is also a feature.
Of course you probably know what I observed in the factory where time studies with stop watches are part of the Industrial Engineers job (not my cog in the
wheel but of course I knew them). Another issue was hardware itself recently. The company was experiencing major issues with unavailable aerospace hardware!
Shanking a screw into a nutplate with a full on pneumatic driver ends up snapping off the float element or worse, shearing off the #3 rivets in the ears of the nutplate.
Floor managers tend to get very irate at boneheads working for them when they do this. One
of the tools used to check for blind grip length measuring is a Hi Lok grip length gauge, which is what we instructed to do IF they were not 100% certain of the screw grip. Of course a simple bent hook wire would do the same. Each aircraft in our case probably
would be different grip length on these fasteners.
I probably aught purchase one of these tools since there are uses that would cause no ill.
One reason I chose the Q2 initially was because of layup tooled fuselage shells, and the unique access design to the aft fuselage compared to the Dragonfly. This
is why I am confident the Frankenbird is probably the best option for my mission, including the Conditional Inspections and any need to get to the aft fuselage area without
being a Harry Houdini clone. I am now 65 and my agility is only a little less than when I was 22 crawling up behind instrument panels and slinking back to the tailcones (well..that is what the mind says anyway, the body has another opinion).
One thing I know for sure...I'll be doing what I can to NOT experience what Chris had happen..a stripped head on a (or several) tailcone screw and now a very difficult
access condition. I am sure in the same situation I would have plenty of confessions to make to my Priest, Father Moore!
Vern
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Thomson <richard@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2022 4:04 AM To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Flush Type Finishing Washer Used on Tail? Vern, Yep, working in the baggage bay is a pain literally. There is a picture somewhere of Sam I believe it is, curled up in his baggage bay looking comfortable working on his controls.
I am lucky if I can get half way in these days as the joints are not as supple as they used to be, and no longer the skinny apprentice that 45 years ago used to get sent up the Gazelle tailcone to fit the cables up the fin. I agree, you have to be careful with power drivers and always start the screw first. Taking my cowls off or on by hand is about 10 times longer than with the PD. My PD like most these days have a variable torque feature so easier to see if the screw
locks up and just check tight when finished by hand. If you go out on the line today, most mechs have a PD in their kit. Otherwise how would they meet the 90 minute turn around. :-)
Rich T. On 14/02/2022 18:55,
smeshno1@... wrote:
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Re: Flush Type Finishing Washer Used on Tail?
Vern, Yep, working in the baggage bay is a pain literally. There
is a picture somewhere of Sam I believe it is, curled up in his
baggage bay looking comfortable working on his controls. I am lucky if I can get half way in these days as the joints are not as supple as they used to be, and no longer the skinny apprentice that 45 years ago used to get sent up the Gazelle tailcone to fit the cables up the fin. I agree, you have to be careful with power drivers and always
start the screw first. Taking my cowls off or on by hand is about
10 times longer than with the PD. My PD like most these days have
a variable torque feature so easier to see if the screw locks up
and just check tight when finished by hand. If you go out on the
line today, most mechs have a PD in their kit. Otherwise how would
they meet the 90 minute turn around. :-) Rich T.
On 14/02/2022 18:55,
smeshno1@... wrote:
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Re: Pat Panzera
That could have been at Jean, Nevada.
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Phil Lankford
On Feb 14, 2022, at 7:51 PM, ryan goodman via groups.io <elboy0712@...> wrote:
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Re: Pat Panzera
ryan goodman
Quite possibly one of the people on this planet that was most in love with aviation. Few can claim to have given so much of themselves to this community. I will miss him. Many will!
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Pat Panzera
Here’s a picture of me and Pat somewhere in the Southwest as Jon would say. For those of you who didn’t know Pat, he was a real good guy and a fellow Navy Vet.
Jim
N46JP
Sent from Outer Space
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Re: Flush Type Finishing Washer Used on Tail?
This is a major issue with the replaceable element floating nutplates (used on Gulfstream wing fairings for example). Don't push too
hard on installation. The shop techs at IAI (Israel Aerospace) in Tel Aviv were complaining to me about the nutplate design when running in the stainless screws on the fairings with a
power driver. I was polite but firm about the preferred process. In the States we use speed wrenches once the screws were in 2 or 3 turns by hand..therefore
verifying the threads are not crossed. Engineering Change Request: Rejected!
Rich, good catch and you are correct on the stainless into cadmium plated nutplate..the galling of the threads is a concern between the two metals. Its why we
used candle wax on the screw threads and install slowly to final torque. I personally have never used power drivers to install
on my own or other owners aircraft.
Speed wrenches are not really so speedy in this case, nor should they be! Chris already found out how much "fun" it is to get into the aft
fuselage with a galled-in screw (from rust in his case). What first is an easy task ends up being a major pain repair.
Vern
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Thomson <richard@...>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 4:10 AM To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Flush Type Finishing Washer Used on Tail? Hi Corbin, Take care if you are using stainless screws with standard anchor nuts and you use a power screwdriver. They can seize and damage the nut or the mounting rivets.
I use a slight smear of anti seize on the thread to lubricate those regularly removed like my cowling screws, it still has enough friction to lock the screw.
Rich T. On 13/02/2022 21:55, Corbin via groups.io wrote:
On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 11:30 PM, Richard Gammon wrote:
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Re: Pat Panzera - Gone West
Pat was a good friend and he struggled for a long time. Fast passage my friend. Our prayers are with you Veronica and the family.
Jim
N46JP
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Martin Skiby <mskiby@...>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 9:31:29 AM To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Pat Panzera - Gone West He put up one hell of a fight! God speed my friend.
Martin
On Feb 14, 2022, at 8:48 AM, smeshno1@... wrote:
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Re: Pat Panzera - Gone West
Terrence ONeill
Thanks, Jon.
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Pat befriended me years ago, and ran my project in his Issue 16 of CONTACT! Magazine. Also many of my parts for sale…always friendly., and discussed many prjjects of like minded guys. So sorry to see Pat pass, but look forward top seeing him in the Next. Terrence O'Neill
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Re: Pat Panzera - Gone West
Martin Skiby
He put up one hell of a fight! God speed my friend.
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Martin
On Feb 14, 2022, at 8:48 AM, smeshno1@... wrote:
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Re: Pat Panzera - Gone West
I believe you have close ties to Pat yourself, Jon. I grieve with you. Your very special Q aircraft was part of a great issue
of Contact! His passing is a loss to all of Experiential
Aviation. Pats' long term dedication to the activity we also
participate in drives home the deep
positive character of all aviators. None of us would be pilots had we not been
strongly dedicated AND kept a positive desire to earn our General
Aviation certificates and more specifically
as builders in Experimental Aviation. Pat flew West at about 4 pm yesterday surrounded by family at home
in Hanford California.
Pats' Son, Anthony, called William Wynne to inform. William and Pat were close friends.
Vern
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jon Finley <jd@...>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 6:52 AM To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> Subject: [Q-List] Pat Panzera - Gone West I just saw a note on VAF that Pat Panzera recently succumbed to pancreatic cancer after a long, tough fight. Afraid I don't have any details.
Jon Finley Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4
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Re: Pat Panzera - Gone West
Larry
Rest In Peace my friend
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On Feb 14, 2022, at 6:17 AM, Anthony P <solarant@...> wrote:
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Re: Pat Panzera - Gone West
Anthony P
Copied from the Dragonfly List:
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"Pat flew West this morning. From William Wynne:Pat’s son Antonio called me to say that his father had passed about an hour ago, at home, surrounded with his family. -- Q2 N86KL
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Pat Panzera - Gone West
Jon Finley
I just saw a note on VAF that Pat Panzera recently succumbed to pancreatic cancer after a long, tough fight. Afraid I don't have any details.
Jon Finley Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4
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Re: Reminder! Saturday's Q-Tour - Matthew Curcio's Well Traveled Q-200 February 12 - 10:00 Central Time
Thanks Matthew for your tour, nice to see there is another MGL
EFis on the list, we will have to compare notes. As always, thanks to Sam for the invite. Great job both of you. Rich T GB
On 10/02/2022 23:20, Sam Hoskins wrote:
Please note the time, it is a little different. It should be a really interesting presentation.
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Re: Flush Type Finishing Washer Used on Tail?
Hi Corbin, Take care if you are using stainless screws with standard anchor
nuts and you use a power screwdriver. They can seize and damage
the nut or the mounting rivets. I use a slight smear of anti seize on the thread to lubricate
those regularly removed like my cowling screws, it still has
enough friction to lock the screw. Rich T.
On 13/02/2022 21:55, Corbin via
groups.io wrote:
On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 11:30 PM, Richard Gammon wrote:
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New videos, wheel cam location
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Re: Flush Type Finishing Washer Used on Tail?
On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 11:30 PM, Richard Gammon wrote:
MS24694CThanks Richard. I placed an order with Aircraft Spruce a few days ago so I am hoping they are the right ones. They have a warehouse close to my house so I typically receive orders with a day or two, at most. I hate their shipping costs though and try to order from other sources as much as possible. -- Corbin N121CG
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Re: Flush Type Finishing Washer Used on Tail?
Richard Gammon <gamzoom@...>
Hi Corbin,
Looking at the Hardware section, HA, in the Aircraft Spruce and Specialty
Co. catalog, you will find them under :
Tinnerman countersunk washers.
There are a few types to choose from. Stainless, plated spring steel,
(and G8 with No8 hole OD as a No10 .
All are for AN or MS flat head/countersunk screws.
The correct screws are NAS514 Philips flat head or MS24694C Stainless
Steel.
Note all are 100 deg heads and NOT the hardware store angle or the familiar
wood countersink angle.
I am trusting that the Q installation design was
using all AN or MS fasteners. Of The same thread sizes, AN,MS threads are of a
closer fit to give a stronger fastener. (incase you wondered).
You can order a free of charge catalog but is
“one and a half inch thick”, so use online unless you like thick books or are
building a plane.
Richard G
*************
From: Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2022 4:23 PM
Subject: [Q-List] Flush Type Finishing Washer Used on
Tail? I
am trying to find the flush-type finishing washer used with the screws to join
the tail to the fuselage. I don't believe they are conical washers so I am
hoping many of us out there know what I am referring to. There are likely
so many different ways to connect the tail but if anyone knows what I am talking
about and the size/name I would greatly appreciate it. I don't have access to my plans right now but will in a day or two and can look through in case these are a "per plan" part. -- Corbin N121CG
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Re: Reminder! Saturday's Q-Tour - Matthew Curcio's Well Traveled Q-200 February 12 - 10:00 Central Time
Sorry I had to miss this morning but I am looking forward to catching up with the show when it is online. Thanks especially to Sam for archiving those for us slackers.
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Cheers, Jay
On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2@...> wrote:
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Re: Reminder! Saturday's Q-Tour - Matthew Curcio's Well Traveled Q-200 February 12 - 10:00 Central Time
Dave Dugas
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