Date   

Re: First Flight soon

Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
 

Thank you Paul.  Good counsel!

Joseph




________________________________
From: Fisher Paul A. <fisherpaula@...>
To: "Q-LIST@..." <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 8:30:09 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon

 
Just to add confusion – I think I came to about 90MPH as the best glide speed
for my plane (most distance per altitude loss), but that was with the prop
windmilling. I never tested it with the prop stopped, so that may make a
difference.


But I do agree with Sam and Bruce that carrying a little more speed is good
until you’ve got the runway made is a good idea. At 90 MPH you don’t have a lot
of room left to flare – especially under pressure.


This may be an academic discussion though. The only time you’ll really need this
number on first flight is on climb out when you have no chance of getting back
to the runway. Once you reach 1000’ circling over the field, you won’t need to
extend your glide, so best glide speed isn’t terribly important (but the side
slip still is!).


My opinion is if you lose the engine before 1000 feet AGL on first flight, you
need to land straight ahead (plus or minus about 45 degrees). After first flight
when you’ve got a feel for the airplane, you can adjust that, but since you
don’t know the flying characteristics yet, straight ahead is the safest option.
I also suggest you survey the airport grounds from the air to find your
emergency landing spots (roads, fields, something soft!), and also things you
will want to avoid (playgrounds, schools, etc.).


Bottom line: Do not try to extend your glide on first flight – you’ve got too
much other work to do.


Just my opinion…

- Paul


From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Joseph
M Snow

Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 21:45
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon



Hi Bruce,

Thanks! That's two votes for 118 mph with an added side slip.

Joseph

__


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: First Flight soon

Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
 

Thanks for the refrence.  I have that publication.  It is time to reread it
again!

Joseph


________________________________
From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
To: Q-LIST <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 7:56:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon

I did some flight testing last year and I came up with something in that
range.  The data wasn't particularly even and I need to repeat
the sequence a couple of times to get it right.

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/ac90-89a.pdf , page34 puts
best glide as 1.5 times liftoff.

Sam

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>wrote:





Thanks to all that replied.  The Q2 manual says 90 mph; and the gross
weight is
1000 lbs.  My projected first flight gross weight at mid-CG is 1006 lbs.
Sam,
is your 118 mph for a heaver gross weight, i.e. 1200-1300 lbs.?


Joseph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: First Flight soon

Mike Dwyer
 

I think 1.5x is a poor approximation. All airframes are different so I doubt that is accurate. I found 120 mph as my best glide, this speed also gives you plenty of elevator authority in the flair, so this is my chosen engine out speed. I did test this once when I carb iced on the turn to final. Mike Q200 N3QPSent from my Windows Phone

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 7:56 AM
To: Q-LIST
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon


Re: First Flight soon

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Suggestion Joseph,
I believe the critical part of landing the Q is getting the "picture"
down final and through the flare. Ride with someone, even if they don't
have dual controls, around the pattern until you can tell the pilot when
he is high, when he is fast, when he is low, sinking, etc. In other
words, verbally guide the pilot down final and through the flare and
touchdown. When you have the picture, your mind/eye coordination will
get the job done. If we understand what we see, the hands will
automatically do it. Its when we don't know what we want done that we
get into trouble.

Don't under study the take off. I continue to believe the take off is
the most dangerous part of any flight. The Q has caused several pilots
serious consequences in this phase. I am sure a pilot will let you
"ride" along on the stick controls during the takeoff and landings so
you can get an idea as to how the stick pressures have to be dealt with.

Earnest Martin coached me in this manner. We shot about a dozen
patterns (not all in one day). I am sure a pilot will let you fly the
pattern down to short final, if you are "right on" maybe further. Make
sure you ride the controls through a go-around or two. Even if the
pilot has to do the rudder and throttle work for you, it can be done.
That way you can get a feel for the plane. When I could make verbal
corrections to his patterns, takeoffs and landings, airspeed, pitch,
etc, I felt ready. It worked great.
My $0.02.
Jerry

On 2/15/2011 10:41 PM, Joseph M Snow wrote:

Pat

That would be really great. However, I do not know of any Q2xx,
taildragger
version, equipped with dual controls. I have dual controls, but 40
hours must
be completed before she is alowed to carry passengers... I did have
excellent
rides with Sam, Paul and Lynn at Beatrice this past fall. And, I have
been
doing a lot of taxiing. Still, Avemco will not insure me until I have
completed
10 hours and 10 cycles. Probability stats are heavy against me.

Joseph Snow
Q2xx, N240JS
www.corvairq.info
Euclid, Ohio

________________________________
From: Pat Panzera <panzera@...
<mailto:panzera%40experimental-aviation.com>>
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011 6:07:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon


Is there any hope of getting some Q-200 stick-time prior to your first
flight, so that you can practice some engine-out work, along with
other skills?

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...
<mailto:1flashq%40ameritech.net>> wrote:
Hi , I need to know the engine-out best glide speed for the Q2xx,
taildragger
version...not that I plan to have an engine failure.

Joseph





------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: First Flight soon

Fisher Paul A. <fisherpaula@...>
 

Oh and I forgot to mention - Good Luck on the first flight!! We're all very excited for you!


From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Joseph M Snow
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 16:44
To: QBA
Subject: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon



Hi , I need to know the engine-out best glide speed for the Q2xx, taildragger
version...not that I plan to have an engine failure.

Joseph


Re: First Flight soon

Fisher Paul A. <fisherpaula@...>
 

Just to add confusion – I think I came to about 90MPH as the best glide speed for my plane (most distance per altitude loss), but that was with the prop windmilling. I never tested it with the prop stopped, so that may make a difference.

But I do agree with Sam and Bruce that carrying a little more speed is good until you’ve got the runway made is a good idea. At 90 MPH you don’t have a lot of room left to flare – especially under pressure.

This may be an academic discussion though. The only time you’ll really need this number on first flight is on climb out when you have no chance of getting back to the runway. Once you reach 1000’ circling over the field, you won’t need to extend your glide, so best glide speed isn’t terribly important (but the side slip still is!).

My opinion is if you lose the engine before 1000 feet AGL on first flight, you need to land straight ahead (plus or minus about 45 degrees). After first flight when you’ve got a feel for the airplane, you can adjust that, but since you don’t know the flying characteristics yet, straight ahead is the safest option. I also suggest you survey the airport grounds from the air to find your emergency landing spots (roads, fields, something soft!), and also things you will want to avoid (playgrounds, schools, etc.).

Bottom line: Do not try to extend your glide on first flight – you’ve got too much other work to do.

Just my opinion…

- Paul


From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Joseph M Snow
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 21:45
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon



Hi Bruce,

Thanks! That's two votes for 118 mph with an added side slip.

Joseph

__


Re: First Flight soon

Sam Hoskins
 

I did some flight testing last year and I came up with something in that
range. The data wasn't particularly even and I need to repeat
the sequence a couple of times to get it right.

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/ac90-89a.pdf , page34 puts
best glide as 1.5 times liftoff.

Sam

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>wrote:





Thanks to all that replied. The Q2 manual says 90 mph; and the gross
weight is
1000 lbs. My projected first flight gross weight at mid-CG is 1006 lbs.
Sam,
is your 118 mph for a heaver gross weight, i.e. 1200-1300 lbs.?


Joseph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: First Flight soon

Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
 

Ok,  Will give them a try.  However, your aircraft is a tricycle gear.  The
problem is conventional gear and lacking taildragger experience

Joseph




________________________________
From: Kevin Boddicker <trumanst@...>
To: "Q-LIST@..." <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011 11:31:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon

 
Joseph,
Check out Falcon insurance. They covered me from first flight.
I had 4 hours in type without dual controls.
Kevin Boddicker
Tri Q 200
Luana, IA. 196 hrs

Sent from my iPod Touch

On Feb 15, 2011, at 9:41 PM, Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
wrote:

Pat

That would be really great. However, I do not know of any Q2xx,
taildragger
version, equipped with dual controls. I have dual controls, but 40
hours must
be completed before she is alowed to carry passengers... I did have
excellent
rides with Sam, Paul and Lynn at Beatrice this past fall. And, I
have been
doing a lot of taxiing. Still, Avemco will not insure me until I
have completed
10 hours and 10 cycles. Probability stats are heavy against me.

Joseph Snow
Q2xx, N240JS
www.corvairq.info
Euclid, Ohio

________________________________
From: Pat Panzera <panzera@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011 6:07:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon


Is there any hope of getting some Q-200 stick-time prior to your first
flight, so that you can practice some engine-out work, along with
other skills?

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Joseph M Snow
<1flashq@...> wrote:
Hi , I need to know the engine-out best glide speed for the Q2xx,
taildragger
version...not that I plan to have an engine failure.

Joseph





------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: First Flight soon

Kevin Boddicker
 

Joseph,
Check out Falcon insurance. They covered me from first flight.
I had 4 hours in type without dual controls.
Kevin Boddicker
Tri Q 200
Luana, IA. 196 hrs

Sent from my iPod Touch

On Feb 15, 2011, at 9:41 PM, Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
wrote:

Pat

That would be really great. However, I do not know of any Q2xx,
taildragger
version, equipped with dual controls. I have dual controls, but 40
hours must
be completed before she is alowed to carry passengers... I did have
excellent
rides with Sam, Paul and Lynn at Beatrice this past fall. And, I
have been
doing a lot of taxiing. Still, Avemco will not insure me until I
have completed
10 hours and 10 cycles. Probability stats are heavy against me.

Joseph Snow
Q2xx, N240JS
www.corvairq.info
Euclid, Ohio

________________________________
From: Pat Panzera <panzera@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011 6:07:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon


Is there any hope of getting some Q-200 stick-time prior to your first
flight, so that you can practice some engine-out work, along with
other skills?

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Joseph M Snow
<1flashq@...> wrote:
Hi , I need to know the engine-out best glide speed for the Q2xx,
taildragger
version...not that I plan to have an engine failure.

Joseph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: First Flight soon

Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
 

Hi Bruce,

Thanks!  That's two votes for 118 mph  with an added side slip.

Joseph




________________________________
From: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011 10:39:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon

 
I concour with Sammy. 118 mph for engine out. And don't let yourself come up
short. Plan for half way down the runway for touch down and when you get to the
runway side slip to slow down.Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 19:22:22 -0800 (PST)

Thanks to all that replied.&#65533; The Q2 manual says 90 mph;&#65533;and the
gross weight is

1000 lbs.&#65533; My projected first flight gross weight at mid-CG is 1006
lbs.&#65533; Sam,

is your 118 mph for a heaver gross weight, i.e. 1200-1300 lbs.?

Joseph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


__________________________________________________________
$65/Hr Job - 25 Openings
Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d5b46edb57c73ecd2ast01vuc


Re: First Flight soon

Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
 

Pat

That would be really great.  However, I do not know of any Q2xx, taildragger
version, equipped with dual controls.  I have dual controls, but 40 hours must
be completed before she is alowed to carry passengers...  I did have excellent
rides with Sam, Paul and Lynn at Beatrice this past fall.  And, I have been
doing a lot of taxiing.  Still, Avemco will not insure me until I have completed
10 hours and 10 cycles.  Probability stats are heavy against me.

Joseph Snow
Q2xx, N240JS
www.corvairq.info
Euclid, Ohio




________________________________
From: Pat Panzera <panzera@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011 6:07:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon

 
Is there any hope of getting some Q-200 stick-time prior to your first
flight, so that you can practice some engine-out work, along with
other skills?

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...> wrote:
Hi ,  I need to know the engine-out best glide speed for the Q2xx, taildragger
version...not that I plan to have an engine failure.

Joseph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: First Flight soon

Bruce Crain
 

I concour with Sammy. 118 mph for engine out. And don't let yourself come up short. Plan for half way down the runway for touch down and when you get to the runway side slip to slow down.Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Flight soon
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 19:22:22 -0800 (PST)




Thanks to all that replied.&#65533; The Q2 manual says 90 mph;&#65533;and the gross weight is
1000 lbs.&#65533; My projected first flight gross weight at mid-CG is 1006 lbs.&#65533; Sam,
is your 118 mph for a heaver gross weight, i.e. 1200-1300 lbs.?

Joseph





____________________________________________________________
$65/Hr Job - 25 Openings
Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d5b46edb57c73ecd2ast01vuc


Re: First Flight soon

Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
 

Thanks to all that replied.  The Q2 manual says 90 mph; and the gross weight is
1000 lbs.  My projected first flight gross weight at mid-CG is 1006 lbs.  Sam,
is your 118 mph for a heaver gross weight, i.e. 1200-1300 lbs.?

Joseph


Re: First Flight soon

Mike Perry
 

The Q2 POH says 90 mph. There are two versions of the POH on Jon's
site, a pdf file and an editable doc file. Jon Finley Q2 documentation:

http://www.finleyweb.net/JonsStuff/QuickieQ2Docs/tabid/58/Default.aspx

There are also files I prepared for the differences between a Q2 and a Q200.

Mike Perry

On 2/15/2011 2:43 PM, Joseph M Snow wrote:

Hi , I need to know the engine-out best glide speed for the Q2xx,
taildragger
version...not that I plan to have an engine failure.

Joseph




Re: First Flight soon

Pat Panzera <panzera@...>
 

Is there any hope of getting some Q-200 stick-time prior to your first
flight, so that you can practice some engine-out work, along with
other skills?

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...> wrote:
Hi ,  I need to know the engine-out best glide speed for the Q2xx, taildragger
version...not that I plan to have an engine failure.

Joseph





------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: First Flight soon

Sam Hoskins
 

I think I once figured about 118 mph, but dont hold me to it.



Sent via mobile.
On Feb 15, 2011 4:43 PM, "Joseph M Snow" <1flashq@...> wrote:
Hi , I need to know the engine-out best glide speed for the Q2xx,
taildragger
version...not that I plan to have an engine failure.

Joseph



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


First Flight soon

Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
 

Hi ,  I need to know the engine-out best glide speed for the Q2xx, taildragger
version...not that I plan to have an engine failure.

Joseph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Important - Watch in amazement Garage Burglary Made Easy

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

You're right James, I just wanted to show off my new math.
J

On 2/15/2011 12:49 PM, JMasal@... wrote:

Marstall you Carolina ridege runners can only count as high as ten
that's why you must think of it as the fop number. In civilized
society, like Hollywood, a 5 star is tops!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...
<mailto:jnmarstall%40bellsouth.net>>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Sent: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:32 am
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fwd: Important - Watch in amazement Garage Burglary
Made Easy

*Subject:*Important - Watch in amazement Garage Burglary Made Easy

Technology is so wonderful; how to break into a home in less than 6
seconds with audio/visual aids!!

Please look at your garage door

After our home inspection the inspector noted that our garage door had a
dent in it. Rhys and I were in the garage last night talking about
it and
trying to figure out how it got a dent in it. Finally figured out
someone
tried to break in. Then I searched youtube and found the below video.
Please watch it. I took the pull string off of ours and zip tied the
lever up to the slider. Now you have to cut the zip tie in order to
release the lever. Please pass on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=CMz1tXBVT1s

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Important - Watch in amazement Garage Burglary Made Easy

JMasal@...
 

Marstall you Carolina ridege runners can only count as high as ten that's why you must think of it as the fop number. In civilized society, like Hollywood, a 5 star is tops!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Sent: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:32 am
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fwd: Important - Watch in amazement Garage Burglary Made Easy






*Subject:*Important - Watch in amazement Garage Burglary Made Easy

Technology is so wonderful; how to break into a home in less than 6
seconds with audio/visual aids!!

Please look at your garage door

After our home inspection the inspector noted that our garage door had a
dent in it. Rhys and I were in the garage last night talking about
it and
trying to figure out how it got a dent in it. Finally figured out
someone
tried to break in. Then I searched youtube and found the below video.
Please watch it. I took the pull string off of ours and zip tied the
lever up to the slider. Now you have to cut the zip tie in order to
release the lever. Please pass on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=CMz1tXBVT1s

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Beatrice Video

JMasal@...
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
To: Q-LIST <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:48 am
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Beatrice Video




Terry, your review was helpful, except the top score is 10.

On 2/14/2011 9:45 PM, Q1terryMDT@... wrote:


Hi Alan,

Great job on the video of the fly-in. Now it should be interesting to
see how many actually order one after all the interest at the fly-in last
year. And it is cheap enough they have no excuses. Anyway, my review 5
stars.

Terry Crouch

In a message dated 2/13/2011 3:12:30 A.M. Central Standard Time,
millenniumflier@... <mailto:millenniumflier%40netscape.net>;
writes:

Hey Fellow Q Listers,

The squeaky wheel gets the grease!? After being quite admonished at our
Beatrice Fly-in last September, i am now pleased (and relieved!) to
say that
i have made a 2 DVD set of the event, complete with a specially-designed
case, and? i'm making it available to anyone who would like one.? I
put alot
of work into it but it was all pure pleasure, and would like to make it
available for ten bucks, which includes the postage.? Not making much
out of
it at all, actually, as most of that is factored into materials, and of
course, covering the postage, but it came out really sharp, and i
think it
captures pretty well the feel of the whole weekend.

If anyone would like one, send me a note off-list, with your address, and
i'll send you my address for your check, and get a set out to you right
away.

The presentation runs about 2:15, and includes tons of flying (as seen
from the ground), lots of builders tips, highlights from our Saturday
evening
banquet, and our departures, including Bruce and Honeylamb in their
beautiful new car, which really should have done a fast pass for us
down the
runway, upon departure.? Actually, with a little Photoshopping, i
think i can
make that happen!? :-)

Our plan is to make this DVD set available through Dan's site at
Quickheads.com too, so you can pay with a credit card.? But for now,
you can send me
a check, and i'd be a happy camper. ?

The plan also includes posting a brief excerpt of the aerial stealth
reconnaissance that Sammy and i did upon Kevin's and Paul's arrival
Friday
afternoon... there are a few brief moments there of some nice footage
with both
planes in view over the Nebraska fields.? I'll eventually have that
posted
to Dan's site and hopefully on You Tube as well, once i learn how to post
things there.? I know you three would really enjoy seeing that!

Fly safely, and i hope you'll all enjoy the video,

All the best,

Alan T.

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