Date   
Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

One Sky Dog
 

VG highly recommended for GU losing lift on the canard is not a fun time.


On Apr 13, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Hi Corbin,

 

You will not notice the difference until you get some bugs or precipitation on the wing, then you will notice a big difference (kills a lot of lift on the canard). I would suggest putting the vg’s back on and leaving them, since this situation will only occur when it is least convenient for you, according to Murphy.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 9:15 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Cc: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

So I should put my VG's back on, huh?  I have been considering doing that.  I only flew once or twice without them (not at gross) and couldn't tell a difference but wasn't really paying attention either.

 

Corbin


On April 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Oh, btw the plane has an LS1 canard and typically flown from sea level 495’ msl airport. Do not try this with a GU canard!

Jim 
N46JP

 

 


--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Corbin
 

I have tons of VG's, the metal style also sold on Spruce.  However, the white ones are appealing for a cleaner look.  Hmm...

Corbin 

On April 13, 2020 at 11:08 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Here is the page describing installing those available from Spruce. You can replace, whenever you accidentally (or intentionally) knock one off:

 

https://www.stolspeed.com/installing-vortex-generators

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 9:59 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

I believe you can get them from AC Spruce with sticky tape you just peel and put on wing.

 

Jim

N46JP Q200

 

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:36:28 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

Thanks Jim.  What material would be best to adhere them onto the wing?  Silicone?

 

Corbin


On April 13, 2020 at 10:28 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

I would 2nd what Jay is saying. I’ve flown next to your “GU plane” with and without vortex generators.

Without them, I’ve seen your plane depart from straight and level flight, nose down until it ran out of elevator authority. The LS1 stayed straight and level. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

 

 


--

Corbin 
N33QR






--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Jay Scheevel
 

Here is the page describing installing those available from Spruce. You can replace, whenever you accidentally (or intentionally) knock one off:

 

https://www.stolspeed.com/installing-vortex-generators

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 9:59 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

I believe you can get them from AC Spruce with sticky tape you just peel and put on wing.

 

Jim

N46JP Q200

 

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:36:28 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

Thanks Jim.  What material would be best to adhere them onto the wing?  Silicone?

 

Corbin


On April 13, 2020 at 10:28 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

I would 2nd what Jay is saying. I’ve flown next to your “GU plane” with and without vortex generators.

Without them, I’ve seen your plane depart from straight and level flight, nose down until it ran out of elevator authority. The LS1 stayed straight and level. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

 

 


--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Jim Patillo
 

I believe you can get them from AC Spruce with sticky tape you just peel and put on wing.

Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:36:28 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie
 
Thanks Jim.  What material would be best to adhere them onto the wing?  Silicone?

Corbin

On April 13, 2020 at 10:28 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

I would 2nd what Jay is saying. I’ve flown next to your “GU plane” with and without vortex generators.

Without them, I’ve seen your plane depart from straight and level flight, nose down until it ran out of elevator authority. The LS1 stayed straight and level. 

Jim
N46JP Q200




--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Corbin
 

Thanks Jim.  What material would be best to adhere them onto the wing?  Silicone?

Corbin

On April 13, 2020 at 10:28 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

I would 2nd what Jay is saying. I’ve flown next to your “GU plane” with and without vortex generators.

Without them, I’ve seen your plane depart from straight and level flight, nose down until it ran out of elevator authority. The LS1 stayed straight and level. 

Jim
N46JP Q200




--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Jim Patillo
 

I would 2nd what Jay is saying. I’ve flown next to your “GU plane” with and without vortex generators.

Without them, I’ve seen your plane depart from straight and level flight, nose down until it ran out of elevator authority. The LS1 stayed straight and level. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Corbin
 

Thanks Jay.  Appreciate it.  Might just do that.

Corbin

On April 13, 2020 at 10:19 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Corbin,

 

You will not notice the difference until you get some bugs or precipitation on the wing, then you will notice a big difference (kills a lot of lift on the canard). I would suggest putting the vg’s back on and leaving them, since this situation will only occur when it is least convenient for you, according to Murphy.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 9:15 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Cc: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

So I should put my VG's back on, huh?  I have been considering doing that.  I only flew once or twice without them (not at gross) and couldn't tell a difference but wasn't really paying attention either.

 

Corbin


On April 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Oh, btw the plane has an LS1 canard and typically flown from sea level 495’ msl airport. Do not try this with a GU canard!

Jim 
N46JP

 

 


--

Corbin 
N33QR






--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Corbin,

 

You will not notice the difference until you get some bugs or precipitation on the wing, then you will notice a big difference (kills a lot of lift on the canard). I would suggest putting the vg’s back on and leaving them, since this situation will only occur when it is least convenient for you, according to Murphy.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 9:15 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Cc: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

So I should put my VG's back on, huh?  I have been considering doing that.  I only flew once or twice without them (not at gross) and couldn't tell a difference but wasn't really paying attention either.

 

Corbin


On April 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Oh, btw the plane has an LS1 canard and typically flown from sea level 495’ msl airport. Do not try this with a GU canard!

Jim 
N46JP

 

 


--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Corbin
 

So I should put my VG's back on, huh?  I have been considering doing that.  I only flew once or twice without them (not at gross) and couldn't tell a difference but wasn't really paying attention either.

Corbin

On April 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Oh, btw the plane has an LS1 canard and typically flown from sea level 495’ msl airport. Do not try this with a GU canard!

Jim 
N46JP




--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Jim Patillo
 

Cylinders and rings are steel.

Jim

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:11:22 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie
 

Hi Jim,

 

Did not want to mention you by name, but I figured you would pipe up.   😊

 

By the way, Are your cylinders chromed?

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:55 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

Joe,

 

N46JP has a 740 lb. empty weight and 1325 lb. gross weight which I established during flight tests.

 

It has an O200 that has been been pumped up from 6:7.1 to 9:4.1 with ceramic coated Lycon pistons and polished, ported and flow balanced Millinum cylinders. The plane has dual Lightspeed Plasma III ignitions, (no mags) and a reflexor which balances loads in flight. Engine has a 4 into 1 ceramic coated exhaust.

 

The plane has a 15 gallon main tank, 5 gallon header tank and removable 6.5 gallon Aux tank for long cross country trips.

 

When the plane is loaded to gross, the cg shifts full aft to the rear of the envelope, making the plane very light on the controls. On a long cross country I typically burn off about 30 minutes of fuel, then start transferring fuel from the Aux  tank in the storage area behind the pax to the main tank. The cg moves forward and the control feel returns to normal.Hope that clears it up for you.

 

Jim

N46JP Q200

 

 

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 7:13:54 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

The general rule of thumb is 10 lb./horsepower for wing-loading similar to the Q2. The original Q2 was 1000 lb. gross with 85 horsepower engine (some would say more like 75-80 horsepower from the original Revmaster). So the ratio was demonstrated to be about 12.5 lb./hp on the prototype (80 hp). Once the dust settled on the design specs for the Q-200 w/ LS1, the factory approved gross weight was 1200 lb. for the 100 hp 0-200 engine. The Q2 with LS-1 and revmaster was raised to 1100 lb gross weight, or 13.75 lb/hp (assuming 80 hp revmaster). So 1325 would be at the high end of that range for 100 hp. (although exceeding the QAC specs) That is more than I would want to carry, but I think some in this group have demonstrated over1300 lb. gross near sea level.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>On Behalf Of Joe Hood
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 6:53 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

Yes, sorry, gross weight. Interesting that the article shows a 1325 lb gross.

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Jim Patillo
 

Oh, btw the plane has an LS1 canard and typically flown from sea level 495’ msl airport. Do not try this with a GU canard!

Jim 
N46JP

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Jim,

 

Did not want to mention you by name, but I figured you would pipe up.   😊

 

By the way, Are your cylinders chromed?

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:55 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

Joe,

 

N46JP has a 740 lb. empty weight and 1325 lb. gross weight which I established during flight tests.

 

It has an O200 that has been been pumped up from 6:7.1 to 9:4.1 with ceramic coated Lycon pistons and polished, ported and flow balanced Millinum cylinders. The plane has dual Lightspeed Plasma III ignitions, (no mags) and a reflexor which balances loads in flight. Engine has a 4 into 1 ceramic coated exhaust.

 

The plane has a 15 gallon main tank, 5 gallon header tank and removable 6.5 gallon Aux tank for long cross country trips.

 

When the plane is loaded to gross, the cg shifts full aft to the rear of the envelope, making the plane very light on the controls. On a long cross country I typically burn off about 30 minutes of fuel, then start transferring fuel from the Aux  tank in the storage area behind the pax to the main tank. The cg moves forward and the control feel returns to normal.Hope that clears it up for you.

 

Jim

N46JP Q200

 

 

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 7:13:54 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

The general rule of thumb is 10 lb./horsepower for wing-loading similar to the Q2. The original Q2 was 1000 lb. gross with 85 horsepower engine (some would say more like 75-80 horsepower from the original Revmaster). So the ratio was demonstrated to be about 12.5 lb./hp on the prototype (80 hp). Once the dust settled on the design specs for the Q-200 w/ LS1, the factory approved gross weight was 1200 lb. for the 100 hp 0-200 engine. The Q2 with LS-1 and revmaster was raised to 1100 lb gross weight, or 13.75 lb/hp (assuming 80 hp revmaster). So 1325 would be at the high end of that range for 100 hp. (although exceeding the QAC specs) That is more than I would want to carry, but I think some in this group have demonstrated over1300 lb. gross near sea level.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>On Behalf Of Joe Hood
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 6:53 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

Yes, sorry, gross weight. Interesting that the article shows a 1325 lb gross.

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Jim Patillo
 

Joe,

N46JP has a 740 lb. empty weight and 1325 lb. gross weight which I established during flight tests.

It has an O200 that has been been pumped up from 6:7.1 to 9:4.1 with ceramic coated Lycon pistons and polished, ported and flow balanced Millinum cylinders. The plane has dual Lightspeed Plasma III ignitions, (no mags) and a reflexor which balances loads in flight. Engine has a 4 into 1 ceramic coated exhaust.

The plane has a 15 gallon main tank, 5 gallon header tank and removable 6.5 gallon Aux tank for long cross country trips.

When the plane is loaded to gross, the cg shifts full aft to the rear of the envelope, making the plane very light on the controls. On a long cross country I typically burn off about 30 minutes of fuel, then start transferring fuel from the Aux  tank in the storage area behind the pax to the main tank. The cg moves forward and the control feel returns to normal.Hope that clears it up for you.

Jim
N46JP Q200




From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 7:13:54 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie
 

The general rule of thumb is 10 lb./horsepower for wing-loading similar to the Q2. The original Q2 was 1000 lb. gross with 85 horsepower engine (some would say more like 75-80 horsepower from the original Revmaster). So the ratio was demonstrated to be about 12.5 lb./hp on the prototype (80 hp). Once the dust settled on the design specs for the Q-200 w/ LS1, the factory approved gross weight was 1200 lb. for the 100 hp 0-200 engine. The Q2 with LS-1 and revmaster was raised to 1100 lb gross weight, or 13.75 lb/hp (assuming 80 hp revmaster). So 1325 would be at the high end of that range for 100 hp. (although exceeding the QAC specs) That is more than I would want to carry, but I think some in this group have demonstrated over1300 lb. gross near sea level.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>On Behalf Of Joe Hood
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 6:53 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

Yes, sorry, gross weight. Interesting that the article shows a 1325 lb gross.

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Jay Scheevel
 

The general rule of thumb is 10 lb./horsepower for wing-loading similar to the Q2. The original Q2 was 1000 lb. gross with 85 horsepower engine (some would say more like 75-80 horsepower from the original Revmaster). So the ratio was demonstrated to be about 12.5 lb./hp on the prototype (80 hp). Once the dust settled on the design specs for the Q-200 w/ LS1, the factory approved gross weight was 1200 lb. for the 100 hp 0-200 engine. The Q2 with LS-1 and revmaster was raised to 1100 lb gross weight, or 13.75 lb/hp (assuming 80 hp revmaster). So 1325 would be at the high end of that range for 100 hp. (although exceeding the QAC specs) That is more than I would want to carry, but I think some in this group have demonstrated over1300 lb. gross near sea level.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Hood
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 6:53 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

 

Yes, sorry, gross weight. Interesting that the article shows a 1325 lb gross.

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Joe Hood
 

Yes, sorry, gross weight. Interesting that the article shows a 1325 lb gross.

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Martin Skiby
 

Joe I believe you mean Gross weight not useful.

Martin

 


On Apr 12, 2020, at 2:04 PM, Joe Hood <joe.hood@...> wrote:

1325 lbs useful load on the Q200, 1100 lbs on the Q2?

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Mike Dwyer
 

On what Planet?  The Moon has way less gravity but has a problem with atmosphere...

The Q200 factory spec was 1100 Lbs Gross on the Q200.
The Q2 factory spec was 1000 lbs Gross.

Each builder can set his own gross weight based on testing.  I've flown my Q200 at sea level just fine at 1100lbs but at Denver I think I'd be real careful about that.  It's way more fun to fly under 900 lbs!  Mine is 640 empty, add me 175lb, add 10 gal fuel = 60lb and some oil 9lbs.  Sea level 59F gives you a 700 foot takeoff, 1500FPM climb and 210 mph.   I got to lose some weight!

Fly Safe.

Mike Dwyer Q200 N3QP

YouTube Videos: https://goo.gl/yKEHfK
Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:04 PM Joe Hood <joe.hood@...> wrote:
1325 lbs useful load on the Q200, 1100 lbs on the Q2?

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Kevin Boddicker
 

Depends if you are in YOUR plane, OR MINE!!!


Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B   506 hrs
Luana, IA.



On Apr 12, 2020, at 5:05 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Am I classified as useful load or useless load, Kevin?

Cheers,
Jay

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


Kevin Boddicker <trumanst@...> wrote:

Gross weight. Not useful load.



Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B   506 hrs
Luana, IA.



On Apr 12, 2020, at 4:04 PM, Joe Hood <joe.hood@...> wrote:

1325 lbs useful load on the Q200, 1100 lbs on the Q2?


Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Jay Scheevel
 

Am I classified as useful load or useless load, Kevin?

Cheers,
Jay

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


Kevin Boddicker <trumanst@...> wrote:

Gross weight. Not useful load.



Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B   506 hrs
Luana, IA.



On Apr 12, 2020, at 4:04 PM, Joe Hood <joe.hood@...> wrote:

1325 lbs useful load on the Q200, 1100 lbs on the Q2?

Re: KITPLANES - September 2006 - Las Vegas Quickie

Corbin
 

Typical useful load is ~565lbs.

Also, anyone else think the short final speed was a tad high?

Corbin

On Apr 12, 2020, at 4:37 PM, Kevin Boddicker <trumanst@...> wrote:

Gross weight. Not useful load.



Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B   506 hrs
Luana, IA.



On Apr 12, 2020, at 4:04 PM, Joe Hood <joe.hood@...> wrote:

1325 lbs useful load on the Q200, 1100 lbs on the Q2?


--

Corbin 
N33QR