Date   

Re: Sparrow strainer stall

David J. Gall
 

Jay,

Nice work. Your modified LS1 elevator would go a long way toward reducing the workload required of the sparrow strainers, but you’d still need something like sparrow strainers to push the TE down for normal ops. The Roncz airfoil’s elevator is intentionally designed with a slight “reflex” on the trailing edge just so that it won’t need sparrow strainers or trim tabs. I suppose that with a little more work you could achieve the same with your modified LS1 elevator. 

Keep at it!

(BTW, what software is that?)


David J. Gall

On Mar 24, 2020, at 8:38 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Hi Bruce,

 

A few years ago, I tried modeling the existing LS1 and only changing the shape of the elevator to try to eliminate the strong asymmetric pressure on the trailing edge (which is the reason you need the sparrow strainer). The reasoning was, that maybe someday, I would build a new set of elevators with the revised shape and leave the sparrow strainer off because it would not be needed. Here is a comparison of the pressure distribution on the the original LS1 for 0,3,and 6 degrees AOA (first graph) and for the same airfoil with the revised elevator (second graph), which would fit in the same slot. Note the difference in pressure on the top/bottom near the trailing edge. The modified version provides slightly lower lift than the original.

<image002.png>

<image001.png>

<image005.png>

<image006.png>

 

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 9:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I see no Sparrow Strainer!  We've been "punked"!  Shoulda, Coulda Woulda!

B

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:13:28 -0600


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Bruce Crain
 

Soooo maybe when we meet at Oshkosh for our "40 Year Reunion" this summer we can corner Burt and see if he could advise.  He is available at times.  Huuuumm.
Bruce

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 13:47:47 -0600


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Jay Scheevel
 

With a different elevator, there would be no need for the sparrow strainer, but it would not produce as much lift, so may need more incidence or other adjustments. Not sure about the Roncz canard, I have never modeled it. The LS1 canard also has washout, not as much as the main wing, but I don’t remember how much. Here is a picture of the three: BL16, BL50, and BL100 templates, level lines horizontal and trailing edges matched up.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 12:22 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

So Jay,

Are you saying that the LS1 with a different elevator would not need a sparrow strainer?  Would it be better than a Roncz canard?

 

I also remember the main wing has wash out.  But I cannot remember if the canard does.  i would have to get out my templates to look unless someone remembers.  If there is wash out that would make designing a Roncz canard off of the templates pretty difficult.  Is it even possible?

Bruce

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 09:38:13 -0600


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Bruce Crain
 

So Jay,
Are you saying that the LS1 with a different elevator would not need a sparrow strainer?  Would it be better than a Roncz canard?
 
I also remember the main wing has wash out.  But I cannot remember if the canard does.  i would have to get out my templates to look unless someone remembers.  If there is wash out that would make designing a Roncz canard off of the templates pretty difficult.  Is it even possible?
Bruce

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 09:38:13 -0600


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Bruce Crain
 

Sweet!  I built the Waddelow Canard for my TriQ 200.  With you that assortment of spar caps and 2 shear webs etc make for a Roncz mid?
Bruce Crain


On Mar 24, 2020, at 9:40 AM, David J. Gall <David@...> wrote:


Bruce,

There would be no sparrow strainers on a Roncz canard, and the Roncz airfoil is thick enough (20.5%) vs. the GU thickness (21%) that the standard GU canard construction method could be used with, perhaps, a slight tweak to the spar layup schedule (no carbon spar needed).

Punked, indeed!

David J. Gall

On Mar 23, 2020, at 8:06 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:


I see no Sparrow Strainer!  We've been "punked"!  Shoulda, Coulda Woulda!
B

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:13:28 -0600

<mime-attachment>


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Bruce,

 

A few years ago, I tried modeling the existing LS1 and only changing the shape of the elevator to try to eliminate the strong asymmetric pressure on the trailing edge (which is the reason you need the sparrow strainer). The reasoning was, that maybe someday, I would build a new set of elevators with the revised shape and leave the sparrow strainer off because it would not be needed. Here is a comparison of the pressure distribution on the the original LS1 for 0,3,and 6 degrees AOA (first graph) and for the same airfoil with the revised elevator (second graph), which would fit in the same slot. Note the difference in pressure on the top/bottom near the trailing edge. The modified version provides slightly lower lift than the original.

 

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 9:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I see no Sparrow Strainer!  We've been "punked"!  Shoulda, Coulda Woulda!

B

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:13:28 -0600


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

David J. Gall
 

Bruce,

There would be no sparrow strainers on a Roncz canard, and the Roncz airfoil is thick enough (20.5%) vs. the GU thickness (21%) that the standard GU canard construction method could be used with, perhaps, a slight tweak to the spar layup schedule (no carbon spar needed).

Punked, indeed!

David J. Gall

On Mar 23, 2020, at 8:06 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:


I see no Sparrow Strainer!  We've been "punked"!  Shoulda, Coulda Woulda!
B

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:13:28 -0600

<mime-attachment>


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Bruce Crain
 

I see no Sparrow Strainer!  We've been "punked"!  Shoulda, Coulda Woulda!
B

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:13:28 -0600


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

David J. Gall
 

Jay,

 

The UIUC airfoil database has two files: AMSOIL1.DAT is the canard airfoil, AMSOIL2.DAT is the wing airfoil. They’re similar, but the canard airfoil has more camber. I’ve done zero analysis on them….

 

 

David J. Gall

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 5:13 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

 

Here’s another one:

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 6:09 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Hi David,

 

This is what I got off the University of Illinois airfoil database. There are two airfoils there listed under Rutan Amsoil racer. They look to be very similar. I wonder if they used nearly the same airfoil on both wings, but with differing incidences. Here is the only photo I could find of it but it is difficult to tell from this angle (I thin this is the second one built, first was destroyed in the crash).

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David J. Gall
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 5:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Jay,

 

I think you’ve got the wrong airfoil there. The topic of discussion is canard airfoil, you’re showing the Amsoil Racer *wing* airfoil.

 

That said, what airfoil software are you using?

 

 

David J. Gall

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:08 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I think it looked more like this.

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Did they use the Roncz canard on the Amzoil Racer?  Didn't Burt design that bird?

Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 20:05:32 -0600

I think that the Roncz airfoil would probably have been the way to go, but unfortunately, as David said, Burt Rutan did not win that argument. I think, if that airfoil had been used, there would have been no need for the carbon fiber spar.  Maybe the next time Sam replaces his canard, he can use that airfoil 😊

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 3:56 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I like this picture.  I wasn't smart 'nough to understand the others you sent Jay.

 

I am noticing the aft end of the airfoils look different.  It looks like there is negative camber on the aft end of the LS1.  The Epler does away with that negative camber.  Would that negative camber make the aft end want to pull up on the elevator?  Plus would it make the airflow blurble up after the trailing edge of the elevator.  

Not sure about the top of the LS1 airflow going inboard with respect to the 2 airfoils!

Any speculation Jay?

Do we need to design a new airfoil for the canard on the Quickie to make it go faster or slow the stall speed?

"Not a Rock Scientist"  

Bruce Crain



Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:54:41 -0600

 


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Jay Scheevel
 

 

Here’s another one:

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 6:09 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Hi David,

 

This is what I got off the University of Illinois airfoil database. There are two airfoils there listed under Rutan Amsoil racer. They look to be very similar. I wonder if they used nearly the same airfoil on both wings, but with differing incidences. Here is the only photo I could find of it but it is difficult to tell from this angle (I thin this is the second one built, first was destroyed in the crash).

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David J. Gall
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 5:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Jay,

 

I think you’ve got the wrong airfoil there. The topic of discussion is canard airfoil, you’re showing the Amsoil Racer *wing* airfoil.

 

That said, what airfoil software are you using?

 

 

David J. Gall

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:08 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I think it looked more like this.

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Did they use the Roncz canard on the Amzoil Racer?  Didn't Burt design that bird?

Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 20:05:32 -0600

I think that the Roncz airfoil would probably have been the way to go, but unfortunately, as David said, Burt Rutan did not win that argument. I think, if that airfoil had been used, there would have been no need for the carbon fiber spar.  Maybe the next time Sam replaces his canard, he can use that airfoil 😊

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 3:56 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I like this picture.  I wasn't smart 'nough to understand the others you sent Jay.

 

I am noticing the aft end of the airfoils look different.  It looks like there is negative camber on the aft end of the LS1.  The Epler does away with that negative camber.  Would that negative camber make the aft end want to pull up on the elevator?  Plus would it make the airflow blurble up after the trailing edge of the elevator.  

Not sure about the top of the LS1 airflow going inboard with respect to the 2 airfoils!

Any speculation Jay?

Do we need to design a new airfoil for the canard on the Quickie to make it go faster or slow the stall speed?

"Not a Rock Scientist"  

Bruce Crain



Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:54:41 -0600

 


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi David,

 

This is what I got off the University of Illinois airfoil database. There are two airfoils there listed under Rutan Amsoil racer. They look to be very similar. I wonder if they used nearly the same airfoil on both wings, but with differing incidences. Here is the only photo I could find of it but it is difficult to tell from this angle (I thin this is the second one built, first was destroyed in the crash).

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David J. Gall
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 5:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Jay,

 

I think you’ve got the wrong airfoil there. The topic of discussion is canard airfoil, you’re showing the Amsoil Racer *wing* airfoil.

 

That said, what airfoil software are you using?

 

 

David J. Gall

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:08 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I think it looked more like this.

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Did they use the Roncz canard on the Amzoil Racer?  Didn't Burt design that bird?

Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 20:05:32 -0600

I think that the Roncz airfoil would probably have been the way to go, but unfortunately, as David said, Burt Rutan did not win that argument. I think, if that airfoil had been used, there would have been no need for the carbon fiber spar.  Maybe the next time Sam replaces his canard, he can use that airfoil 😊

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 3:56 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I like this picture.  I wasn't smart 'nough to understand the others you sent Jay.

 

I am noticing the aft end of the airfoils look different.  It looks like there is negative camber on the aft end of the LS1.  The Epler does away with that negative camber.  Would that negative camber make the aft end want to pull up on the elevator?  Plus would it make the airflow blurble up after the trailing edge of the elevator.  

Not sure about the top of the LS1 airflow going inboard with respect to the 2 airfoils!

Any speculation Jay?

Do we need to design a new airfoil for the canard on the Quickie to make it go faster or slow the stall speed?

"Not a Rock Scientist"  

Bruce Crain



Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:54:41 -0600

 


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

David J. Gall
 

Jay,

 

I think you’ve got the wrong airfoil there. The topic of discussion is canard airfoil, you’re showing the Amsoil Racer *wing* airfoil.

 

That said, what airfoil software are you using?

 

 

David J. Gall

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:08 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I think it looked more like this.

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Did they use the Roncz canard on the Amzoil Racer?  Didn't Burt design that bird?

Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 20:05:32 -0600

I think that the Roncz airfoil would probably have been the way to go, but unfortunately, as David said, Burt Rutan did not win that argument. I think, if that airfoil had been used, there would have been no need for the carbon fiber spar.  Maybe the next time Sam replaces his canard, he can use that airfoil 😊

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 3:56 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I like this picture.  I wasn't smart 'nough to understand the others you sent Jay.

 

I am noticing the aft end of the airfoils look different.  It looks like there is negative camber on the aft end of the LS1.  The Epler does away with that negative camber.  Would that negative camber make the aft end want to pull up on the elevator?  Plus would it make the airflow blurble up after the trailing edge of the elevator.  

Not sure about the top of the LS1 airflow going inboard with respect to the 2 airfoils!

Any speculation Jay?

Do we need to design a new airfoil for the canard on the Quickie to make it go faster or slow the stall speed?

"Not a Rock Scientist"  

Bruce Crain



Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:54:41 -0600

 


Re: EXT :[Q-List] Oil leak - Cylinder Base

Kidd, Robert L [US] (IS)
 

Jim,

My C150 was leaving a trail when I’d land and taxi, I thought the seal on the vacuum pump shaft was leaking, so I replaced it several times before I dug a bit deeper and tightened the bottom center case bolts.  That significantly reduced the oil trail I was leaving, and the oil consumption on my O-200.  Just saying, you may want to look at that while you are working on it.

Robert Kidd

Logan, Utah

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io [mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 10:57 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: EXT :[Q-List] Oil leak - Cylinder Base

 

Hey Bruce,

I also have an oil leak I’ve been putting off fixing on #2 and #3 cylinders. I think it’s the thru bolts leaking.
I’ve heard that the leak can be stopped by pulling the cylinder away, pushing the thru bolt out a little, wrapping silk thread around the bolt shaft, pushing back in place  and reinstalling the cylinder.

Please let me know what you found and how you repaired it. 


Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Rik
 

To date, has there been a Q with the Roncz airfoil built and flown?


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Jay Scheevel
 

Since it was built as a pylon racer, the mission was quite different than fast cruise. Not sure, but I think Roncz designed the Amsoil airfoils also. Take a look at the area behind the 50% chord, you will see the camber there, but you are right, it is close to symmetrical.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 8:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Looks almost symmetrical!  Would perhaps need a bit of up incidence for cruise.  But then you're not looking for just cruise when racing!

Bruce

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 21:07:55 -0600


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Bruce Crain
 

Looks almost symmetrical!  Would perhaps need a bit of up incidence for cruise.  But then you're not looking for just cruise when racing!
Bruce

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 21:07:55 -0600


Re: Oil leak - Cylinder Base

Bruce Crain
 

Nothing on the threads.  The thread locker goes in the silk thread around the through bolt.  My mid engine through bolt has been dry for years.  The left two through bolts have not.  Today I hope to finish plumbing everything together for runup then cowl and fly.  Hoping for the best!
Bruce


On Mar 22, 2020, at 10:40 PM, Phil Lankford via Groups.Io <britmcman@...> wrote:

I am not sure you wouldn’t (double negative?) get a similar positive seal on those threads if you were to just dress them with Hylomar without the silk thread trick. But I’m listening. 

Phil Lankford  


On Mar 21, 2020, at 2:45 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:


YepI  That would be correct on the actual through bolt.  I did the silk thread with thread locker or RTV in the thread. 
I did both left and right ends to keep from leaking on either side.  You will need to pull both 2 and 3 cylinders away from the case halves. 
When you start wrapping the thread just keep wrapping it until it starts to fit snugly.  Then do the other end and make them both fit snugly.  I think I wrapped them at the outer ends but not outside the side of the case.  You don't want to let the thread and locker hold the cylinder away from the case half!  Add the thread locker to the thread and push the through bolt into place.  It should be snug enough to keep it in place but not enough to keep it from going into place.  
When you torque the bolt try to keep the ends fairly symmetrical.
 
My leak has been on the left front side of the case.  There are 2 bolts that thread into the case half on the other side.  I thought I might need to check out the cylinder base flat O ring but D and B Engines said the leak never happens with that base o ring.  He said the 2 bolts are the culprit.  I affirm that as I have seen oil coming out of the threads.
I finished remounting the cylinder and torquing the base nuts and installing the new push tube oil return tubes.  I will most likely finish plumbing the rest this week while Honey Lamb is working.  I get lonesome at the hanger so I came home to "entertain her"!  wink_smile
 
I will shout out loud if I can get this 0200 dry!
 
Bruce Crain 
 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jim Patillo" <Logistics_engineering@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Oil leak - Cylinder Base
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2020 09:57:07 -0700

Hey Bruce,

I also have an oil leak I’ve been putting off fixing on #2 and #3 cylinders. I think it’s the thru bolts leaking.
I’ve heard that the leak can be stopped by pulling the cylinder away, pushing the thru bolt out a little, wrapping silk thread around the bolt shaft, pushing back in place  and reinstalling the cylinder.

Please let me know what you found and how you repaired it. 


Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Re: Oil leak - Cylinder Base

Phil Lankford
 

I am not sure you wouldn’t (double negative?) get a similar positive seal on those threads if you were to just dress them with Hylomar without the silk thread trick. But I’m listening. 

Phil Lankford  


On Mar 21, 2020, at 2:45 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:


YepI  That would be correct on the actual through bolt.  I did the silk thread with thread locker or RTV in the thread. 
I did both left and right ends to keep from leaking on either side.  You will need to pull both 2 and 3 cylinders away from the case halves. 
When you start wrapping the thread just keep wrapping it until it starts to fit snugly.  Then do the other end and make them both fit snugly.  I think I wrapped them at the outer ends but not outside the side of the case.  You don't want to let the thread and locker hold the cylinder away from the case half!  Add the thread locker to the thread and push the through bolt into place.  It should be snug enough to keep it in place but not enough to keep it from going into place.  
When you torque the bolt try to keep the ends fairly symmetrical.
 
My leak has been on the left front side of the case.  There are 2 bolts that thread into the case half on the other side.  I thought I might need to check out the cylinder base flat O ring but D and B Engines said the leak never happens with that base o ring.  He said the 2 bolts are the culprit.  I affirm that as I have seen oil coming out of the threads.
I finished remounting the cylinder and torquing the base nuts and installing the new push tube oil return tubes.  I will most likely finish plumbing the rest this week while Honey Lamb is working.  I get lonesome at the hanger so I came home to "entertain her"!  wink_smile
 
I will shout out loud if I can get this 0200 dry!
 
Bruce Crain 
 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jim Patillo" <Logistics_engineering@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Oil leak - Cylinder Base
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2020 09:57:07 -0700

Hey Bruce,

I also have an oil leak I’ve been putting off fixing on #2 and #3 cylinders. I think it’s the thru bolts leaking.
I’ve heard that the leak can be stopped by pulling the cylinder away, pushing the thru bolt out a little, wrapping silk thread around the bolt shaft, pushing back in place  and reinstalling the cylinder.

Please let me know what you found and how you repaired it. 


Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Jay Scheevel
 

I think it looked more like this.

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Did they use the Roncz canard on the Amzoil Racer?  Didn't Burt design that bird?

Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 20:05:32 -0600

I think that the Roncz airfoil would probably have been the way to go, but unfortunately, as David said, Burt Rutan did not win that argument. I think, if that airfoil had been used, there would have been no need for the carbon fiber spar.  Maybe the next time Sam replaces his canard, he can use that airfoil 😊

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 3:56 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I like this picture.  I wasn't smart 'nough to understand the others you sent Jay.

 

I am noticing the aft end of the airfoils look different.  It looks like there is negative camber on the aft end of the LS1.  The Epler does away with that negative camber.  Would that negative camber make the aft end want to pull up on the elevator?  Plus would it make the airflow blurble up after the trailing edge of the elevator.  

Not sure about the top of the LS1 airflow going inboard with respect to the 2 airfoils!

Any speculation Jay?

Do we need to design a new airfoil for the canard on the Quickie to make it go faster or slow the stall speed?

"Not a Rock Scientist"  

Bruce Crain



Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:54:41 -0600

 


Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Bruce Crain
 

Did they use the Roncz canard on the Amzoil Racer?  Didn't Burt design that bird?
Bruce


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 20:05:32 -0600

I think that the Roncz airfoil would probably have been the way to go, but unfortunately, as David said, Burt Rutan did not win that argument. I think, if that airfoil had been used, there would have been no need for the carbon fiber spar.  Maybe the next time Sam replaces his canard, he can use that airfoil 😊

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 3:56 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I like this picture.  I wasn't smart 'nough to understand the others you sent Jay.

 

I am noticing the aft end of the airfoils look different.  It looks like there is negative camber on the aft end of the LS1.  The Epler does away with that negative camber.  Would that negative camber make the aft end want to pull up on the elevator?  Plus would it make the airflow blurble up after the trailing edge of the elevator.  

Not sure about the top of the LS1 airflow going inboard with respect to the 2 airfoils!

Any speculation Jay?

Do we need to design a new airfoil for the canard on the Quickie to make it go faster or slow the stall speed?

"Not a Rock Scientist"  

Bruce Crain



Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:54:41 -0600