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Wingtip Lenses
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Michael D. Callahan <micallahan@...>
Doug,
Did you vacu-form those lenses? I was considering the same thing since the exposed nav and strobe lights were one of the points the aero guys jumped on. I've got a homemade frame made out of pegboard and plywood that I use a shopvac to draw with. I bought a radiant space heater from the thrift store for a heat source. It works well, but don't try LEXAN. LEXAN has a lot of water in it, so unless you heat it slowly to around 200f and hold it there for an hour or so in an oven it will bubble severely. Plexi is not a problem. Mike C. |
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HawkiDoug@...
In a message dated 10/17/00 6:16:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
micallahan@... writes: << Doug, Did you vacu-form those lenses? I was considering the same thing since the exposed nav and strobe lights were one of the points the aero guys jumped on. I've got a homemade frame made out of pegboard and plywood that I use a shopvac to draw with. I bought a radiant space heater from the thrift store for a heat source. It works well, but don't try LEXAN. LEXAN has a lot of water in it, so unless you heat it slowly to around 200f and hold it there for an hour or so in an oven it will bubble severely. Plexi is not a problem. Mike C. >> I am vacu-forming them; or at least trying to. I am using Lexan (polycabonite), but I am having them professionally done and we are aware of the water content of this material and how to extract it. If we are sucessful we'll let everyone know. I was fortunate to have the original mold. We'll see how this developes. Doug "Hawkeye" Humble Omaha NE |
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HawkiDoug@...
In a message dated 10/17/00 12:15:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
iveshive@... writes: << Any chance of incorporating some sort of winglet or vortex gate into the application? Tom Ives >> Only if you do it yourself Tom. These things need molds and the molds can get quite expensive to make. The shape I have is the shape I can reproduce. Doug "Hawkeye" Humble Omaha NE |
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The Ives Hive <iveshive@...>
Any chance of incorporating some sort of winglet or vortex gate into the
application? Tom Ives |
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Pat Panzera <panzera@...>
HawkiDoug@... wrote:
For what it's worth, Spuds wrote a nice article in the Dragonfly newsletter, describing how to make a mold from plaster, heat the plexi in Mom's oven, and drawing it down with the trusty Hoover. Actual cost out of pocket can't be more than $10. Pat |
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terry.l.sickler@...
Tom, I made wing tips from foam, glassed them, then removed the foam. It
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isn't all that hard. I also have a Plexiglas form for wing-tip light lenses. Check out the QBA site under builder's tips for a narrative. I think that I have pictures that I can send to you off-line. ~T~ -----Original Message-----
From: HawkiDoug@... [mailto:HawkiDoug@...] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 1:26 PM To: Q-LIST@... Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses In a message dated 10/17/00 12:15:41 PM Central Daylight Time, iveshive@... writes: << Any chance of incorporating some sort of winglet or vortex gate into the application? Tom Ives >> Only if you do it yourself Tom. These things need molds and the molds can get quite expensive to make. The shape I have is the shape I can reproduce. Doug "Hawkeye" Humble Omaha NE To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Q-LIST-unsubscribe@... Quickie Builders Association WEB site http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html |
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The Ives Hive <iveshive@...>
A question for the Q - group. Doug's wingtip lense covers really look like a
great idea pertaining to refining drag. It looks like it wouldn't be too hard to incorporate an add on winglet to attach to the same mounting point. Winglets - are they just for low end performance? Do they have any negatives attributed with them . Is it a good idea to pursue this for the Quickie application? Tom Ives |
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James Patillo <patillo@...>
Terry,
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Have you got that bird back in the air yet? Tried to call you today but got a busy signal at the Rocket Center! Flew my Q to 14,500 AGL today. Tomorrow I may go til it stops. Where do you think it will be? Saw 215 MPH for the first time today @ 8,500'. Things are running smooooth now! The oil cooler keeps temps @ 190-200F consistently. Ripped out the gascolator and tossed it! My required FAA hours will be flown off tomorrow or Thursday. Hooray! Hooray! Regards N46JP ----- Original Message -----
From: terry.l.sickler@... To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 1:54 PM Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses Tom, I made wing tips from foam, glassed them, then removed the foam. It isn't all that hard. I also have a Plexiglas form for wing-tip light lenses. Check out the QBA site under builder's tips for a narrative. I think that I have pictures that I can send to you off-line. ~T~ -----Original Message----- From: HawkiDoug@... [mailto:HawkiDoug@...] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 1:26 PM To: Q-LIST@... Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses In a message dated 10/17/00 12:15:41 PM Central Daylight Time, iveshive@... writes: << Any chance of incorporating some sort of winglet or vortex gate into the application? Tom Ives >> Only if you do it yourself Tom. These things need molds and the molds can get quite expensive to make. The shape I have is the shape I can reproduce. Doug "Hawkeye" Humble Omaha NE To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Q-LIST-unsubscribe@... Quickie Builders Association WEB site http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Q-LIST-unsubscribe@... Quickie Builders Association WEB site http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html |
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HawkiDoug@...
Hey Pat, I remember that article now (barely though). Has anyone actually
done this? If so, how did they turn out? Are there any photos of the finished product? Its my understanding that Lexan (polycarbonite) has a high water content and you need to extract it first. Also, my mold is about 4" deep and I've been told it would take more than a hoover to vacuum it. The whole process sounded more than I wanted to try on my own. Doug "Hawkeye" Humble Omaha NE |
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L Koutz <koutzl@...>
James
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That 215 mph, was it straight and level? Could you confirm it with something like GPS? Was it speed through the air? What was your RPM? I saw that speed coming back from Ottawa, but it was with a 50 Kt tailwind! If you got that speed on engine alone you have one fast bird. Larry ----- Original Message -----
From: "James Patillo" <patillo@...> To: <Q-LIST@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses Terry,got a busy signal at the Rocket Center! Flew my Q to 14,500 AGL today. Tomorrow I may go til it stops. Where do you think it will be? Saw 215 MPH for the first time today @ 8,500'. Things are running smooooth now! The oil cooler keeps temps @ 190-200F consistently. Ripped out the gascolator and tossed it! My required FAA hours will be flown off tomorrow or Thursday. Hooray! Hooray! It isn't all that hard. I also have a Plexiglas form for wing-tip lightthe application?can get quite expensive to make. The shape I have is the shape I canreproduce.
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Pat Panzera <panzera@...>
L Koutz wrote:
If I may, I'd like to rant politely on a pet peeve of mine. I hear people brag all the time about the speeds they got using a GPS, DME or Loran. That may be fine and dandy for flight planning and such, but it's no measure of performance. Unless you know EXACTLY how fast the winds aloft are, and at that angle to these winds you are traveling, and are capable of converting that to a true air speed, ground speed is a totally moot point. What really matters is indicated airspeed, or true airspeed adjusted for altitude and temperature. If ground speed was at all applicable to performance, then it could be possible to prove (given the right set of conditions) that an ultralite can out perform a P-51 Mustang. Pat |
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James Postma <james@...>
This is why record attempts are two way over a closed course. YOu can do
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the same with your GPS by doing a 180 and averaging the two. Do it into the wind if you can and then downwind to minimize crosswind components. James Postma james@... (253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT (GMT-8) voice ----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Panzera" <panzera@...> To: <Q-LIST@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses something like GPS?If I may, I'd like to rant politely on a pet peeve of mine. |
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Pat Panzera <panzera@...>
James Postma wrote:
That sounds all fine and dandy, but can you guarantee the wind speed, direction and temperature will remain constant for each run? I can't. And here's an extreme example. Say you want to find the PERFORMANCE capability of tiny single seater, 1/2 veedub, 80mph vne aircraft. You plot a course between 2 points. Your down wind leg has a 100mph tailwind. You arrive at the finish line and turn around. Start heading toward the new finish line and never make it because you are flying backwards across the ground. What dose this tell you about the performance of this aircraft? Ground references for performance verification is ridiculous. If you want to know how fast your airplane is capable of traveling, look at your airspeed and adjust what you see for alittude and temperature. If you want to know how long it's going to take to go someplace, use this new PERFORMANCE information against the predicted winds to get an anticipated ground speed. Record attempts are done both ways because it's the only possible way to attempt to factor out any tail wind. In all reality, anyone hoping to set a new record, would hope for no wind at all, especially if it's over a timed course. Hope this helps. Pat |
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What Larry said Jim!!!
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James Patillo <patillo@...>
Larry,
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It was straight and level. The engine has about 35 hours since zero time overhaul. I read the speed off my Garmin 295. RPM's were 2850 and yes I had a tailwind. Don't think it was 50Kt though. To Panzera - not bragging - simply stating what I saw. In the next few months I will make the Klaus Savier engine mod and change to new cylinders with 9:1 pistons and electronic ignition on one side. My goal is to fly with Mr. Bob M. So Panzera if you want to join in you should at least get something that fly's and get with it! N46JP Q200 ----- Original Message -----
From: L Koutz To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses James That 215 mph, was it straight and level? Could you confirm it with something like GPS? Was it speed through the air? What was your RPM? I saw that speed coming back from Ottawa, but it was with a 50 Kt tailwind! If you got that speed on engine alone you have one fast bird. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Patillo" <patillo@...> To: <Q-LIST@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses > Terry, > > Have you got that bird back in the air yet? Tried to call you today but got a busy signal at the Rocket Center! Flew my Q to 14,500 AGL today. Tomorrow I may go til it stops. Where do you think it will be? Saw 215 MPH for the first time today @ 8,500'. Things are running smooooth now! The oil cooler keeps temps @ 190-200F consistently. Ripped out the gascolator and tossed it! My required FAA hours will be flown off tomorrow or Thursday. Hooray! Hooray! > > Regards N46JP > ----- Original Message ----- > From: terry.l.sickler@... > To: Q-LIST@... > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 1:54 PM > Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses > > > Tom, I made wing tips from foam, glassed them, then removed the foam. It > isn't all that hard. I also have a Plexiglas form for wing-tip light > lenses. Check out the QBA site under builder's tips for a narrative. I > think that I have pictures that I can send to you off-line. ~T~ > > -----Original Message----- > From: HawkiDoug@... [mailto:HawkiDoug@...] > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 1:26 PM > To: Q-LIST@... > Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses > > > In a message dated 10/17/00 12:15:41 PM Central Daylight Time, > iveshive@... writes: > > << Any chance of incorporating some sort of winglet or vortex gate into the > application? > Tom Ives >> > Only if you do it yourself Tom. These things need molds and the molds can > get quite expensive to make. The shape I have is the shape I can reproduce. > > Doug "Hawkeye" Humble > Omaha NE > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Q-LIST-unsubscribe@... > > Quickie Builders Association WEB site > http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html > > > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Q-LIST-unsubscribe@... > > Quickie Builders Association WEB site > http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Q-LIST-unsubscribe@... > > Quickie Builders Association WEB site > http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html > > > > eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Q-LIST-unsubscribe@... Quickie Builders Association WEB site http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html |
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Patrick Panzera <panzera@...>
James Patillo wrote:
To Panzera - not bragging - simply stating what I saw.I meant no disrespect. However, what was your IAS at the time, and at what altitude. That way we can factor out the tail wind. On the way to Ottawa from Phoenix, my GPS said 500kts and 37,580'. In the next few months I will make the Klaus Savier engine mod andJoin in? I should own a flying aircraft before I may express an opinion?!? Perhaps if I owned a flying aircraft, a Mr. could go before my last initial also, and I could have a first name too? Sorry to have offended you. Panzera |
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David J. Gall
Pat,
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The out-and-back ground speed run has been the standard method of calibrating the airspeed indicator for "position error" for a number of years now. Your example is absurd, but a more realistic exaggeration will make the point of just how good the method is: take your 80 mph plane out on a measured course in a 40 mph tailwind, then return. You'll find that the outbound leg took one-third the time of the return leg. Turn this process around: you measure out a ten-mile leg, then fly it both directions and note the times. Each time value will give you a groundspeed, and the difference between the groundspeeds will be twice the wind speed. Subtract the windspeed from the fast groundspeed value, or add it to the slower, and you'll have the true groundspeed. Run the true groundspeed through your E6B computer for altitude and temperature and it becomes True Indicated Airspeed. Be careful, though, because you need to make that calculation backwards from the TAS calculation you're used to. Whereas you would normally take your indicated airspeed in cruise and use your E6B to find your TAS, here you have the TAS (true groundspeed) and you're trying to find out what your airspeed indicator should read. Once you've done that, compare this against what your airspeed indicator actually indicated during the flight (you did fly a steady airspeed at constant altitude and RPM, didn't you?) and you'll have one data point on your airspeed calibration card for your airplane flight manual. See AC 90-89A Chapter 4, Section 3, paragraph 5. With the advent of GPS, we no longer have to fly a measured course over the ground; just take your GPS groundspeed readings while traveling in two opposite directions, then average them. That's your true airspeed as you would find it in no wind conditions. If you wish, plug that into your E6B for temperature and altitude (backward calculating, again), and you'll know what your airspeed indicator >should< have been reading at the time. David J. Gall ----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Panzera" <panzera@...> To: <Q-LIST@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses do thethe same with your GPS by doing a 180 and averaging the two. Do it into temperature.wind if you can and then downwind to minimize crosswind components.That sounds all fine and dandy, but can you guarantee the wind speed,
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pwright5@...
Before being allowed to air-race, I had to do a max-power run over a 1 mile
course into wind (with a RAeC qualified check pilot), and then back down-wind, with a portable DGPS . The average speed was then used to calculate the initial handicap. I believe this is the only real way to get a handle on your speed. If you have a GPS ..... make a run up-wind and down-wind over a known distance, and take the average! Pat Panzera <panzera@...> on 10/18/2000 05:37:58 PM Please respond to Q-LIST@... To: Q-LIST@... cc: Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses L Koutz wrote: something like GPS?If I may, I'd like to rant politely on a pet peeve of mine. I hear people brag all the time about the speeds they got using a GPS, DME or Loran. That may be fine and dandy for flight planning and such, but it's no measure of performance. Unless you know EXACTLY how fast the winds aloft are, and at that angle to these winds you are traveling, and are capable of converting that to a true air speed, ground speed is a totally moot point. What really matters is indicated airspeed, or true airspeed adjusted for altitude and temperature. If ground speed was at all applicable to performance, then it could be possible to prove (given the right set of conditions) that an ultralite can out perform a P-51 Mustang. Pat To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Q-LIST-unsubscribe@... Quickie Builders Association WEB site http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html |
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pwright5@...
"You plot a course between 2 points. Your down wind leg has a 100mph
tailwind. You arrive at the finish line and turn around. Start heading toward the new finish line and never make it because you are flying backwards across the ground. What dose this tell you about the performance of this aircraft? Ground references for performance verification is ridiculous." Hmm ..... so you would have ((100+80)+(-100+80)) = (180-20)/2 = 160/2 = 80 ..... result the same! Negative speed does not affect the mathematics. The only difference is that you can't fly the same course, but have to go the same known distance further down-wind. Just being picky ..... :-) Paul Pat Panzera <panzera@...> on 10/18/2000 09:24:16 PM Please respond to Q-LIST@... To: Q-LIST@... cc: Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Wingtip Lenses James Postma wrote: the wind if you can and then downwind to minimize crosswind components.That sounds all fine and dandy, but can you guarantee the wind speed, direction and temperature will remain constant for each run? I can't. And here's an extreme example. Say you want to find the PERFORMANCE capability of tiny single seater, 1/2 veedub, 80mph vne aircraft. You plot a course between 2 points. Your down wind leg has a 100mph tailwind. You arrive at the finish line and turn around. Start heading toward the new finish line and never make it because you are flying backwards across the ground. What dose this tell you about the performance of this aircraft? Ground references for performance verification is ridiculous. If you want to know how fast your airplane is capable of traveling, look at your airspeed and adjust what you see for alittude and temperature. If you want to know how long it's going to take to go someplace, use this new PERFORMANCE information against the predicted winds to get an anticipated ground speed. Record attempts are done both ways because it's the only possible way to attempt to factor out any tail wind. In all reality, anyone hoping to set a new record, would hope for no wind at all, especially if it's over a timed course. Hope this helps. Pat To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Q-LIST-unsubscribe@... Quickie Builders Association WEB site http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html |
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