Date
1 - 13 of 13
Aero Poxy
Jeremy Prizevoits <JerryPrize@...>
Hey guys,
I need some quick input. I did a lay up last week and the surface feels
slightly "tacky" . Today is the first day that we have seen above 65
degree's but I am concerned that I may not have a good cure. My lay up seems
hard as a rock, but I still concerned. Any advice you can offer would be
greatly appreciated and I am not opposed to sanding the glass off and
starting over. So if it's tuff love you have to give me fire away.
Jerry Prizevoits
Q200 builder extraordinaire
I need some quick input. I did a lay up last week and the surface feels
slightly "tacky" . Today is the first day that we have seen above 65
degree's but I am concerned that I may not have a good cure. My lay up seems
hard as a rock, but I still concerned. Any advice you can offer would be
greatly appreciated and I am not opposed to sanding the glass off and
starting over. So if it's tuff love you have to give me fire away.
Jerry Prizevoits
Q200 builder extraordinaire
Jerry,
You should have had some epoxie left in the mixing cup. Scratch it with
a nail- if it leaves a scratch and doesn't gum or move with the nail the
"batch" is good. If the batch is good then your lay-up is alright. It
may just need a "little" warmth for a day or 2 to "cook it off". If you
can rig something up to cover the part and bring the temp up for a
couple of days it would probably clear up the problem. If the part is
small you could use a light bulb under cover to do the trick. This can
be a fire hazard so be careful!! Put the left over cup of epoxie in the
"warming tent" so you can be sure you got the mix right or the epoxie is
still good. Remember, the canard is to be heat cured before use and with
the temp. well below 70 degrees F it will need some help for other parts
also. A friend that helped me get started on my Q once said that epoxie
takes about a week to fully cure at normal temps. Hope this helps.
Bruce Crain
On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:35:34 -0500 "Jeremy Prizevoits"
<JerryPrize@...> writes:
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You should have had some epoxie left in the mixing cup. Scratch it with
a nail- if it leaves a scratch and doesn't gum or move with the nail the
"batch" is good. If the batch is good then your lay-up is alright. It
may just need a "little" warmth for a day or 2 to "cook it off". If you
can rig something up to cover the part and bring the temp up for a
couple of days it would probably clear up the problem. If the part is
small you could use a light bulb under cover to do the trick. This can
be a fire hazard so be careful!! Put the left over cup of epoxie in the
"warming tent" so you can be sure you got the mix right or the epoxie is
still good. Remember, the canard is to be heat cured before use and with
the temp. well below 70 degrees F it will need some help for other parts
also. A friend that helped me get started on my Q once said that epoxie
takes about a week to fully cure at normal temps. Hope this helps.
Bruce Crain
On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:35:34 -0500 "Jeremy Prizevoits"
<JerryPrize@...> writes:
Hey guys,________________________________________________________________
I need some quick input. I did a lay up last week and the surface
feels
slightly "tacky" . Today is the first day that we have seen above 65
degree's but I am concerned that I may not have a good cure. My lay up
seems
hard as a rock, but I still concerned. Any advice you can offer would
be
greatly appreciated and I am not opposed to sanding the glass off and
starting over. So if it's tuff love you have to give me fire away.
Jerry Prizevoits
Q200 builder extraordinaire
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JAMES MASAL
In a message dated 10/20/00 9:41:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
JerryPrize@... writes:
<< I did a lay up last week and the surface feels
slightly "tacky" . >>
mORE data please. Do you have any suspicion at all that your mix wasn't right
or your measurement devices are out of cal. Did you save the cup with the
leftover epoxy so you can scratch test it? Is it tacky too? You should put it
in a warm place in the house for a couple days and see if it untacks and
cures. You don't wanna be screwing around with primary structure in question.
JerryPrize@... writes:
<< I did a lay up last week and the surface feels
slightly "tacky" . >>
mORE data please. Do you have any suspicion at all that your mix wasn't right
or your measurement devices are out of cal. Did you save the cup with the
leftover epoxy so you can scratch test it? Is it tacky too? You should put it
in a warm place in the house for a couple days and see if it untacks and
cures. You don't wanna be screwing around with primary structure in question.
Jerry,
Don't use anything with an open flame such as candles or propane gas or
wood as these kind of things emit "stuff" that act as a mold release. I
know that was pretty obvious but that's the kind of guy I am.
Adios Amigo
Bruce Crain
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Don't use anything with an open flame such as candles or propane gas or
wood as these kind of things emit "stuff" that act as a mold release. I
know that was pretty obvious but that's the kind of guy I am.
Adios Amigo
Bruce Crain
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Don Stewart <siinc@...>
Jeremy,
It's the old Humidity vs Temp problem. You will need to either lower the
humidity during layups/curing or raise the temperature in the layup
booth, or both.
Probably raising the temps a little in a closed space is the easier of
the two and should allow that cure to progress to a satisfactory
conclusion.
Others have suggested making up a batch of resin with a healthy dose of
catalyst and applying it to the tacky surface. The idea is to create a
really warm exothermic reaction which might cure the resin below.
Don
Jeremy Prizevoits wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
It's the old Humidity vs Temp problem. You will need to either lower the
humidity during layups/curing or raise the temperature in the layup
booth, or both.
Probably raising the temps a little in a closed space is the easier of
the two and should allow that cure to progress to a satisfactory
conclusion.
Others have suggested making up a batch of resin with a healthy dose of
catalyst and applying it to the tacky surface. The idea is to create a
really warm exothermic reaction which might cure the resin below.
Don
Jeremy Prizevoits wrote:
Hey guys,
I need some quick input. I did a lay up last week and the surface feels
slightly "tacky" . Today is the first day that we have seen above 65
degree's but I am concerned that I may not have a good cure. My lay up seems
hard as a rock, but I still concerned. Any advice you can offer would be
greatly appreciated and I am not opposed to sanding the glass off and
starting over. So if it's tuff love you have to give me fire away.
Jerry Prizevoits
Q200 builder extraordinaire
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html
Jeff Russell <Jeff@...>
Jeremy Prizevoits wrote:
I might later show that it got hard but...... the chemical cure will
suffer because it could not link correctly at the proper temps.
We have had this happen at the factory and we trashed the part because
it never became stable.
Here is a post from Gary Hunter that works at Shell Chemical. He said
this to the Canard group:
"Doing a layup at 40F ambient, with a surface temperature of 75F is
OK too, PROVIDED the surface temperature STAYS at 75F for a least 24
hrs. If the surface temperature is allowed to cool to ambient (40F)
immediately after the layup is completed, I seriously doubt the laminate
will actually cure within the first 24 hrs. Instead it will only
advance
to a 'B-stage' - a vitrified solid state that gives all the appearance
that it is cured, but in actuality it is something like hard taffy
candy.
Warming the laminate to optimum cure temperatures will re-start the
curing reaction. Depending on what point in time during the B-stage,
re-heating the laminate can make the resin re-liquefy (like melting the
taffy candy) or at least soften to the consistency of chewing gum.
As it cures it will eventually become a full fledged cured thermoset
plastic.
But, if the laminate is kept cold enough long enough, the chemical
reaction
may never restart upon warming - even at elevated temperatures.
It can remain a brittle, low peel strength laminate forever
(we have seen this before). In some cases, it may
never harden at all, and stay a rubbery solid forever.
More often than not, the laminates will eventually see enough warmth
to allow the reaction to progress to a gel point at least. However, it
will have a very low Tg until it sees additional heat. Probably around
100-105F. So if you ACCIDENTALLY, have a sudden cool spell after a
layup, it would be prudent to NOT move the article until it warms up
enough to allow the cure to advance to a reasonable gel stage.
This may take a week or more. Then a post cure would be highly
recommended.
Folks, the cool season is upon us once again. Please, don't take
any chances. IMHO - if you have an enclosed environment with some
reasonable amount of insulation - buy a dual mode window air-conditioner
for your shop. It will provide safe heat in the winter, and keep things
cool and dry during the summer. A new one runs about $400 - used ones
are
cheaper. Having a comfortable environment to work in year round will
speed up the completion of your project considerably. It is money well
spent."
Gary Hunter
Hope that helps Jeremy
--
Jeff Russell/AeroCad Inc.
Website: http://www.Aerocad.com
Jerry, you should never let a lay up try to cure under 65 degrees.
Hey guys,
I need some quick input. I did a lay up last week and the surface feels
slightly "tacky" . Today is the first day that we have seen above 65
degree's but I am concerned that I may not have a good cure. My lay up seems
hard as a rock, but I still concerned. Any advice you can offer would be
greatly appreciated and I am not opposed to sanding the glass off and
starting over. So if it's tuff love you have to give me fire away.
I might later show that it got hard but...... the chemical cure will
suffer because it could not link correctly at the proper temps.
We have had this happen at the factory and we trashed the part because
it never became stable.
Here is a post from Gary Hunter that works at Shell Chemical. He said
this to the Canard group:
"Doing a layup at 40F ambient, with a surface temperature of 75F is
OK too, PROVIDED the surface temperature STAYS at 75F for a least 24
hrs. If the surface temperature is allowed to cool to ambient (40F)
immediately after the layup is completed, I seriously doubt the laminate
will actually cure within the first 24 hrs. Instead it will only
advance
to a 'B-stage' - a vitrified solid state that gives all the appearance
that it is cured, but in actuality it is something like hard taffy
candy.
Warming the laminate to optimum cure temperatures will re-start the
curing reaction. Depending on what point in time during the B-stage,
re-heating the laminate can make the resin re-liquefy (like melting the
taffy candy) or at least soften to the consistency of chewing gum.
As it cures it will eventually become a full fledged cured thermoset
plastic.
But, if the laminate is kept cold enough long enough, the chemical
reaction
may never restart upon warming - even at elevated temperatures.
It can remain a brittle, low peel strength laminate forever
(we have seen this before). In some cases, it may
never harden at all, and stay a rubbery solid forever.
More often than not, the laminates will eventually see enough warmth
to allow the reaction to progress to a gel point at least. However, it
will have a very low Tg until it sees additional heat. Probably around
100-105F. So if you ACCIDENTALLY, have a sudden cool spell after a
layup, it would be prudent to NOT move the article until it warms up
enough to allow the cure to advance to a reasonable gel stage.
This may take a week or more. Then a post cure would be highly
recommended.
Folks, the cool season is upon us once again. Please, don't take
any chances. IMHO - if you have an enclosed environment with some
reasonable amount of insulation - buy a dual mode window air-conditioner
for your shop. It will provide safe heat in the winter, and keep things
cool and dry during the summer. A new one runs about $400 - used ones
are
cheaper. Having a comfortable environment to work in year round will
speed up the completion of your project considerably. It is money well
spent."
Gary Hunter
Hope that helps Jeremy
--
Jeff Russell/AeroCad Inc.
Website: http://www.Aerocad.com
mbrowner1@...
Jerry,
I use a 500W halogen work lamp to warm the area. Takes close supervision and
touch testing to just warm up the part and not cook it. Works great to warm
up the epoxy pump too (and my hands). Cheap too.
Mike Brown
Your wheel pants are in my pickup.
Got my vert stab and tailwheel spring glued in place :-)
I use a 500W halogen work lamp to warm the area. Takes close supervision and
touch testing to just warm up the part and not cook it. Works great to warm
up the epoxy pump too (and my hands). Cheap too.
Mike Brown
Your wheel pants are in my pickup.
Got my vert stab and tailwheel spring glued in place :-)
Jeremy Prizevoits <JerryPrize@...>
Don,
That sounds like a good idea I might mix a bath that's a little hot and put
a small lay up over the first one.
Jerry
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
That sounds like a good idea I might mix a bath that's a little hot and put
a small lay up over the first one.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Stewart [mailto:siinc@...]
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:42 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Aero Poxy
Jeremy,
It's the old Humidity vs Temp problem. You will need to either lower the
humidity during layups/curing or raise the temperature in the layup
booth, or both.
Probably raising the temps a little in a closed space is the easier of
the two and should allow that cure to progress to a satisfactory
conclusion.
Others have suggested making up a batch of resin with a healthy dose of
catalyst and applying it to the tacky surface. The idea is to create a
really warm exothermic reaction which might cure the resin below.
Don
Jeremy Prizevoits wrote:
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html
From: Don Stewart [mailto:siinc@...]
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:42 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Aero Poxy
Jeremy,
It's the old Humidity vs Temp problem. You will need to either lower the
humidity during layups/curing or raise the temperature in the layup
booth, or both.
Probably raising the temps a little in a closed space is the easier of
the two and should allow that cure to progress to a satisfactory
conclusion.
Others have suggested making up a batch of resin with a healthy dose of
catalyst and applying it to the tacky surface. The idea is to create a
really warm exothermic reaction which might cure the resin below.
Don
Jeremy Prizevoits wrote:
seems
Hey guys,
I need some quick input. I did a lay up last week and the surface feels
slightly "tacky" . Today is the first day that we have seen above 65
degree's but I am concerned that I may not have a good cure. My lay up
hard as a rock, but I still concerned. Any advice you can offer would be
greatly appreciated and I am not opposed to sanding the glass off and
starting over. So if it's tuff love you have to give me fire away.
Jerry Prizevoits
Q200 builder extraordinaire
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html
terry.l.sickler@...
Jeremy,
Just try to cure what you have first. Just warm it in a "tent" and see what happens. Then let us know. ~T~
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Just try to cure what you have first. Just warm it in a "tent" and see what happens. Then let us know. ~T~
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Prizevoits [mailto:JerryPrize@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:17 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Aero Poxy
Don,
That sounds like a good idea I might mix a bath that's a little hot and put
a small lay up over the first one.
Jerry
From: Jeremy Prizevoits [mailto:JerryPrize@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:17 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Aero Poxy
Don,
That sounds like a good idea I might mix a bath that's a little hot and put
a small lay up over the first one.
Jerry
Don Stewart <siinc@...>
There is a weight penalty with the extra layer of resin. Just a thought.
Don
Jeremy Prizevoits wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Don
Jeremy Prizevoits wrote:
Don,
That sounds like a good idea I might mix a bath that's a little hot and put
a small lay up over the first one.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Stewart [mailto:siinc@...]
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:42 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Aero Poxy
Jeremy,
It's the old Humidity vs Temp problem. You will need to either lower the
humidity during layups/curing or raise the temperature in the layup
booth, or both.
Probably raising the temps a little in a closed space is the easier of
the two and should allow that cure to progress to a satisfactory
conclusion.
Others have suggested making up a batch of resin with a healthy dose of
catalyst and applying it to the tacky surface. The idea is to create a
really warm exothermic reaction which might cure the resin below.
Don
Jeremy Prizevoits wrote:seems
Hey guys,
I need some quick input. I did a lay up last week and the surface feels
slightly "tacky" . Today is the first day that we have seen above 65
degree's but I am concerned that I may not have a good cure. My lay uphard as a rock, but I still concerned. Any advice you can offer would beTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
greatly appreciated and I am not opposed to sanding the glass off and
starting over. So if it's tuff love you have to give me fire away.
Jerry Prizevoits
Q200 builder extraordinaire
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Quickie Builders Association WEB site
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Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
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Michael D. Callahan <micallahan@...>
I'm with Terry on this one, try some heat first. I mixed up some
polyester that just would not set up a few years ago. It took a couple of
weeks, but it finally kicked off completely. I tried the hot topcoat on that
and it didn't help much.
Epoxy is a different animal, the hardener and resin must completely link
up and depend on correct ratios to harden properly. Adding more hardener to
the second coat will only ensure that you will have one incorrectly mixed
layer of resin on top of one that never cured properly to begin with. IMHO
Mike C.
polyester that just would not set up a few years ago. It took a couple of
weeks, but it finally kicked off completely. I tried the hot topcoat on that
and it didn't help much.
Epoxy is a different animal, the hardener and resin must completely link
up and depend on correct ratios to harden properly. Adding more hardener to
the second coat will only ensure that you will have one incorrectly mixed
layer of resin on top of one that never cured properly to begin with. IMHO
Mike C.
Jeremy Prizevoits <JerryPrize@...>
Terry,
Thanks for the sound advice. I talked with one of the main guys in our bond
shop at Cessna (I had official business there of course) and I shared with
him my dilemma and he offered the same advice that you have kindly giving
me. I am looking into some radiant heaters to elevate the garage to 100 and
keep it there for a while.
I'll keep you all posted.
Jerry
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks for the sound advice. I talked with one of the main guys in our bond
shop at Cessna (I had official business there of course) and I shared with
him my dilemma and he offered the same advice that you have kindly giving
me. I am looking into some radiant heaters to elevate the garage to 100 and
keep it there for a while.
I'll keep you all posted.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: terry.l.sickler@... [mailto:terry.l.sickler@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:49 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Aero Poxy
Jeremy,
Just try to cure what you have first. Just warm it in a "tent" and see what
happens. Then let us know. ~T~
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Prizevoits [mailto:JerryPrize@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:17 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Aero Poxy
Don,
That sounds like a good idea I might mix a bath that's a little hot and put
a small lay up over the first one.
Jerry
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html
From: terry.l.sickler@... [mailto:terry.l.sickler@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:49 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Aero Poxy
Jeremy,
Just try to cure what you have first. Just warm it in a "tent" and see what
happens. Then let us know. ~T~
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Prizevoits [mailto:JerryPrize@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:17 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Aero Poxy
Don,
That sounds like a good idea I might mix a bath that's a little hot and put
a small lay up over the first one.
Jerry
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html
Don Stewart <siinc@...>
Jerry,
Remember that you want to warm the mass of the plane, not soften the
surface. Temp rises should be done in small increments and with adequate
moving air so there are no hotspots on your plastic aeroplane.
We're all pulling for you.
Don
Jeremy Prizevoits wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Remember that you want to warm the mass of the plane, not soften the
surface. Temp rises should be done in small increments and with adequate
moving air so there are no hotspots on your plastic aeroplane.
We're all pulling for you.
Don
Jeremy Prizevoits wrote:
Terry,
Thanks for the sound advice. I talked with one of the main guys in our bond
shop at Cessna (I had official business there of course) and I shared with
him my dilemma and he offered the same advice that you have kindly giving
me. I am looking into some radiant heaters to elevate the garage to 100 and
keep it there for a while.
I'll keep you all posted.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: terry.l.sickler@... [mailto:terry.l.sickler@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:49 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Aero Poxy
Jeremy,
Just try to cure what you have first. Just warm it in a "tent" and see what
happens. Then let us know. ~T~
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Prizevoits [mailto:JerryPrize@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:17 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Aero Poxy
Don,
That sounds like a good idea I might mix a bath that's a little hot and put
a small lay up over the first one.
Jerry
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://web2.airmail.net/qba321tm/q-page1.html
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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