The Aircraft Factory and School


Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

James re the lower stall speed I think something could be done to improve the transition from the canard underside to the Qdragger wheel pant which might improve the performance of the canard. That is a subject for Q-Performance.
Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: James Postma
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:25 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] The Aircraft Factory and School


Group,

I have started marketing
The Aircraft Factory and School and wish your comments on it.
Please keep it constructive and nonflammable. If you are tempted to flame me on this, please do me the courtesy of calling me first and talking it over man-to-man.

First how I came to start it.
I have been trying to make a Q2 into a light sport aircraft. The main mod is to get the speed down. I now have the speed down to 59 mph. I thought that if I had more control authority, I may be able to get it down to the required 51 mph. However I now think that 59 is about it without increasing the wing area which would require a redesign which may be ugly.

This effort got me thinking that if not a light sport aircraft, why not sell it as an experimental amateur built aircraft as it is now.
The aircraft factory can not build it and register it, but it could do a builders assistance program with factory personnel supervising the construction in the factory and the builder registering it.
This is what I propose to do.

The builder will receive training in building, developing, testing, maintaining, and operating his aircraft as well as a standardized airplane with the best modifications as enumerated on this list.
He will start with an unfinished project, and built it to these specifications under factory supervision.

The factory will be wherever there are builders interested in the concept. There will be multiple factories, each one sized to fit the number of builders on this site (probably 3 to 5).

I do this primarily for the good-of-the-order. It will be a commercial venture and incorporated.

My main motivation is to get the fleet flying. This airplane has been the best one available in its' price range for many years. Everywhere I go, people flock to see it. We need to solve the problems with the aircraft (we have) and give the builder confidence in his ability to build and fly it which I feel my program can do. My goal is 1,000 aircraft.

This program in no way do I expect to replace the efforts of all youall as they say in the South. Please keep up the good work which I respect very much. I very much enjoy meeting with the typical homebuilding group and sharing ideas and helping others and getting help in their projects. Our efforts have been very worthwhile and have kept the Q bird alive. I know that I would have quit many years ago if not for Frank Follmer and other builders who helped me.

This is a small community. We have maybe 100 builders and 20 airplanes flying. QAC sold 2,000 kits and Revmaster sold 600 engines. Most of the kits have had some work done and I believe that there are maybe 1,000 projects floating around. These projects have not been completed due to lack of knowledge and fear of flying. These numbers may not be exact, but they are the ones that I have. I want to help many more people to complete and fly these projects.

My target customer for the factory is people who do not have these resources available and cannot do this themselves and need help. TAF will be a commercial venture so it will have to charge commercial rates to be able to hire people, pay taxes, and do all the other things that companies do. This means that resale prices for completed, certified aircraft will go up.

I will need part time and full time employees to participate in factories in your area, e.g.
1) experienced builders to supervise and train the amateur builders.
2) experienced flyers to flight train the owners.
3) persons to locate and retrieve the unfinished projects.
4) managers to locate space for the factories and manage them.
5) regional and local sales and marketing persons.
6) corporate directors and managers.
7) a national marketing manager.

Item 6 and 7 is the most immediate need as this is in the planning stage.

Please email me off line if you wish to participate.

I have not sold any aircraft yet and this effort is still in the planning stage so your comments will be appreciated.

If successful, the concept could be expanded to other experimental aircraft.

I will do this completely legal and observe the F.A.R's. I expect to get the cooperation of the local FISDO and hope to obtain Repairman Certificates for the builders.

This concept is being done now by certain kit manufacturers but at high cost to the builder. Lancair will let you build your airplane in their factory in Redmond, Oregon for $4.000 per week.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
"80% of the effort is just showing up." T. Harv Eker





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


James Postma <james@...>
 

Group,

I have started marketing
The Aircraft Factory and School and wish your comments on it.
Please keep it constructive and nonflammable. If you are tempted to flame me on this, please do me the courtesy of calling me first and talking it over man-to-man.

First how I came to start it.
I have been trying to make a Q2 into a light sport aircraft. The main mod is to get the speed down. I now have the speed down to 59 mph. I thought that if I had more control authority, I may be able to get it down to the required 51 mph. However I now think that 59 is about it without increasing the wing area which would require a redesign which may be ugly.

This effort got me thinking that if not a light sport aircraft, why not sell it as an experimental amateur built aircraft as it is now.
The aircraft factory can not build it and register it, but it could do a builders assistance program with factory personnel supervising the construction in the factory and the builder registering it.
This is what I propose to do.

The builder will receive training in building, developing, testing, maintaining, and operating his aircraft as well as a standardized airplane with the best modifications as enumerated on this list.
He will start with an unfinished project, and built it to these specifications under factory supervision.

The factory will be wherever there are builders interested in the concept. There will be multiple factories, each one sized to fit the number of builders on this site (probably 3 to 5).

I do this primarily for the good-of-the-order. It will be a commercial venture and incorporated.

My main motivation is to get the fleet flying. This airplane has been the best one available in its' price range for many years. Everywhere I go, people flock to see it. We need to solve the problems with the aircraft (we have) and give the builder confidence in his ability to build and fly it which I feel my program can do. My goal is 1,000 aircraft.

This program in no way do I expect to replace the efforts of all youall as they say in the South. Please keep up the good work which I respect very much. I very much enjoy meeting with the typical homebuilding group and sharing ideas and helping others and getting help in their projects. Our efforts have been very worthwhile and have kept the Q bird alive. I know that I would have quit many years ago if not for Frank Follmer and other builders who helped me.

This is a small community. We have maybe 100 builders and 20 airplanes flying. QAC sold 2,000 kits and Revmaster sold 600 engines. Most of the kits have had some work done and I believe that there are maybe 1,000 projects floating around. These projects have not been completed due to lack of knowledge and fear of flying. These numbers may not be exact, but they are the ones that I have. I want to help many more people to complete and fly these projects.

My target customer for the factory is people who do not have these resources available and cannot do this themselves and need help. TAF will be a commercial venture so it will have to charge commercial rates to be able to hire people, pay taxes, and do all the other things that companies do. This means that resale prices for completed, certified aircraft will go up.

I will need part time and full time employees to participate in factories in your area, e.g.
1) experienced builders to supervise and train the amateur builders.
2) experienced flyers to flight train the owners.
3) persons to locate and retrieve the unfinished projects.
4) managers to locate space for the factories and manage them.
5) regional and local sales and marketing persons.
6) corporate directors and managers.
7) a national marketing manager.

Item 6 and 7 is the most immediate need as this is in the planning stage.

Please email me off line if you wish to participate.

I have not sold any aircraft yet and this effort is still in the planning stage so your comments will be appreciated.

If successful, the concept could be expanded to other experimental aircraft.

I will do this completely legal and observe the F.A.R's. I expect to get the cooperation of the local FISDO and hope to obtain Repairman Certificates for the builders.

This concept is being done now by certain kit manufacturers but at high cost to the builder. Lancair will let you build your airplane in their factory in Redmond, Oregon for $4.000 per week.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
"80% of the effort is just showing up." T. Harv Eker


JMasal@...
 

At one point I printed a list of 160 flown airplanes in Quicktalk. It took
lotsa work to get that list so I think a lot more were flying.

j.


James Postma <james@...>
 

Thanks Jim for the number. My estimate I want is for airplanes that are
actually flying now. There are a lot of airplanes that have flown, and then
the builders give up on them because of all the problems and park them.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: <JMasal@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Aircraft Factory and School



At one point I printed a list of 160 flown airplanes in Quicktalk. It took
lotsa work to get that list so I think a lot more were flying.

j.







Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








haiqu
 

James,

There are 6 on the VH register (counting Q200's).

Rob

--- In Q-LIST@..., "James Postma" <james@p...> wrote:
Thanks Jim for the number. My estimate I want is for airplanes that are
actually flying now. There are a lot of airplanes that have flown,
and then
the builders give up on them because of all the problems and park them.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: <JMasal@a...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Aircraft Factory and School



At one point I printed a list of 160 flown airplanes in Quicktalk.
It took
lotsa work to get that list so I think a lot more were flying.

j.







Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

That is a very bad statistic if true Is that a world wide number ?. How can we help to change the picture ? How about direct contact ?
Peter

<I estimate that 80% of airplanes with airworthiness certificates are hangar
queens.

James Postma>
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "HAIQU_OZ" <judd@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 10:51 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: The Aircraft Factory and School




James,

There are 6 on the VH register (counting Q200's).

Rob

--- In Q-LIST@..., "James Postma" <james@p...> wrote:
Thanks Jim for the number. My estimate I want is for airplanes that are
actually flying now. There are a lot of airplanes that have flown,
and then
the builders give up on them because of all the problems and park them.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: <JMasal@a...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Aircraft Factory and School



At one point I printed a list of 160 flown airplanes in Quicktalk.
It took
lotsa work to get that list so I think a lot more were flying.

j.







Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links












Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links









Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


James Postma <james@...>
 

Thanks Rob,

How many are actually flying.

I estimate that 80% of airplanes with airworthiness certificates are hangar
queens.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "HAIQU_OZ" <judd@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 10:51 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: The Aircraft Factory and School




James,

There are 6 on the VH register (counting Q200's).

Rob

--- In Q-LIST@..., "James Postma" <james@p...> wrote:
Thanks Jim for the number. My estimate I want is for airplanes that are
actually flying now. There are a lot of airplanes that have flown,
and then
the builders give up on them because of all the problems and park them.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: <JMasal@a...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Aircraft Factory and School



At one point I printed a list of 160 flown airplanes in Quicktalk.
It took
lotsa work to get that list so I think a lot more were flying.

j.







Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links












Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








haiqu
 

Hi James,

With the cost of hangar space I doubt anyone in Australia would keep
an airplane they weren't flying for very long. But I don't know most
of the owners so can't say for sure.

Rob

--- In Q-LIST@..., "James Postma" <james@p...> wrote:
Thanks Rob,

How many are actually flying.

I estimate that 80% of airplanes with airworthiness certificates
are hangar
queens.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "HAIQU_OZ" <judd@o...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 10:51 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: The Aircraft Factory and School




James,

There are 6 on the VH register (counting Q200's).

Rob

--- In Q-LIST@..., "James Postma" <james@p...> wrote:
Thanks Jim for the number. My estimate I want is for airplanes
that are
actually flying now. There are a lot of airplanes that have flown,
and then
the builders give up on them because of all the problems and
park them.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: <JMasal@a...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Aircraft Factory and School



At one point I printed a list of 160 flown airplanes in Quicktalk.
It took
lotsa work to get that list so I think a lot more were flying.

j.







Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links












Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








DraagunFly@...
 

Hi Jim.
From my experience here at Chino, I'd say you are right. There are/were 4 Qs
here at Chino; yours being the only one I ever saw fly, including the one in
my hangar. Sure would like to see it fly too, as I need the space
Richard at Chino


JMasal@...
 

In a message dated 11/9/04 5:34:19 PM Central Standard Time,
larry2@... writes:


Less flaming and more help for those asking questions. Fixing my plane is
taking far longer than it should because of the minimal information
available.
Ahhhhhhhh, another victim. It's not your problem to solve, but US not
co-operating. Amedika, I Loooooove dis Kuntry!

j.


Larry Severson
 


<I estimate that 80% of airplanes with airworthiness certificates are hangar
queens.

James Postma>

At 04:19 AM 11/8/2004 +1000, you wrote:

That is a very bad statistic if true Is that a world wide number ?.
Probably

How can we help to change the picture ?
Less flaming and more help for those asking questions. Fixing my plane is taking far longer than it should because of the minimal information available.

How about direct contact ?
That is a great idea, but who and how. There are other owners here at Chino, but I have been unable to meet them to ask questions. A good example is my rudder. I have ended up cutting out the bottom pivot because I could not remove the rudder. There was only 1/2 inch clearance below the pivot. Additionally, the pin holding it on was too long, even if the pivot gave the suggested 1.1 inch clearance. Without information, everything I do has to be a destructive "experiment".

Peter

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Mike Dwyer <mdwyer@...>
 

My 2 cents,
I believe the same is true for Spam cans, yachts and many other toys. I for instance didn't use my Hobie Cat last year...
Mike Q200 N3QP, Osprey 2 N8XM, www.warnerair/dynon

larry severson wrote:



<I estimate that 80% of airplanes with airworthiness certificates
are hangar
queens.

James Postma>

At 04:19 AM 11/8/2004 +1000, you wrote:

That is a very bad statistic if true Is that a world wide number ?.
Probably

How can we help to change the picture ?
Less flaming and more help for those asking questions. Fixing my plane is
taking far longer than it should because of the minimal information available.

How about direct contact ?
That is a great idea, but who and how. There are other owners here at
Chino, but I have been unable to meet them to ask questions. A good example
is my rudder. I have ended up cutting out the bottom pivot because I could
not remove the rudder. There was only 1/2 inch clearance below the pivot.
Additionally, the pin holding it on was too long, even if the pivot gave
the suggested 1.1 inch clearance. Without information, everything I do has
to be a destructive "experiment".

Peter

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org




*Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129dnefsq/M=281955.5530326.6602771.3001176/D=groups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1100129534/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12ishfgk9/*http://clk.atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1100043134534810>

Get unlimited calls to

U.S./Canada

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129dnefsq/M=281955.5530326.6602771.3001176/D=groups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1100129534/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12ishfgk9/*http://clk.atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1100043134534810>


------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Yahoo! Groups Links*

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
<mailto:Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


damiantwinsport@...
 

Every school I have ever been too has a lesson plan and text books. There was talk at one time of reprinting the QAC manuals with updates and proven mods would be great.N8427 came with partial info and text. Nice workmanship throughout I wonder what dear Frank did with the construction manual?
Anyone out there care to sell me a copy for a Q200? How about a 0200 engine cowl?
Regards,
Damian Gregory N8427


Larry Severson
 

Ahhhhhhhh, another victim. It's not your problem to solve, but US not
co-operating. Amedika, I Loooooove dis Kuntry!
Of course it is the owner's problem to solve, but that was not the question! It was why are there so many hanger queens. I miss the helpful missives so common on the KR net. Luckily, not everyone on this net is a jerk.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Robert Bounds
 

Jeeez,
I've just been called a "wanker" and a "jerk" after years of lurking and occasionally contributing to the Quickie cause. Since Masal and Finley are also in this group, I feel pretty good. Especially when I get one of the much sought after "wire-brushings" from Masal. Damian, you should feel blessed.

Bounds

----- Original Message -----
From: larry severson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: The Aircraft Factory and School



>Ahhhhhhhh, another victim. It's not your problem to solve, but US not
>co-operating. Amedika, I Loooooove dis Kuntry!

Of course it is the owner's problem to solve, but that was not the
question! It was why are there so many hanger queens. I miss the helpful
missives so common on the KR net. Luckily, not everyone on this net is a jerk.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Jon Finley <jon@...>
 

Hey Bounds!!

Are you saying that I've never given you a wire brushing!! What about
the time we were doing our five ship Q1 work and I had to yell at you to
get in TIGHT!! Ya big weenie!! :-)

How's the EZ treatin' ya? Building anything new yet? Ever hear
anything about your old Q?

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Bounds [mailto:rebounds@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 6:20 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: The Aircraft Factory and School


Jeeez,
I've just been called a "wanker" and a "jerk" after years of lurking and
occasionally contributing to the Quickie cause. Since Masal and Finley
are also in this group, I feel pretty good. Especially when I get one
of the much sought after "wire-brushings" from Masal. Damian, you
should feel blessed.

Bounds


Robert Bounds
 

Tight my fat behind! I don't get close to anybody that can't fly straight! ;-) I think the Q is dead. The guy flipped it when he went off the runway. The EZ (I know, I'm a traitor) is working fine. 590 hrs now. Just starting to work on a major project of trying to copy a wrecked compost bush plane. (One of two built, no plans available) Progress is slow with two college kids eating all excess funds. Good to hear from you.
Bounds

----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Finley
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: The Aircraft Factory and School


Hey Bounds!!

Are you saying that I've never given you a wire brushing!! What about
the time we were doing our five ship Q1 work and I had to yell at you to
get in TIGHT!! Ya big weenie!! :-)

How's the EZ treatin' ya? Building anything new yet? Ever hear
anything about your old Q?

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Bounds [mailto:rebounds@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 6:20 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: The Aircraft Factory and School


Jeeez,
I've just been called a "wanker" and a "jerk" after years of lurking and
occasionally contributing to the Quickie cause. Since Masal and Finley
are also in this group, I feel pretty good. Especially when I get one
of the much sought after "wire-brushings" from Masal. Damian, you
should feel blessed.

Bounds








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.