Seat belt anchor bolts


Larry Hamm <LDHAMM@...>
 

My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the belts (and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY HARD. On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm diameter.

Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q bolts don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't provide any more security, huh?

Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??

Larry Hamm
"SubyQ"


JohntenHave <Jtenhave@...>
 

Hmmm,

125ksi tensile min, 1/4 inch bolts, 6135# tensile ultimate, shear =
0.75 tensile, 4601# ultimate shear, 200# pilot, 9g forward restraint,
safety factor 2.5...

Looks alright to me...and there are four of them.... still,
biggerizing cannot be bad - remember the golden rule of welding? "
the bigger the blob, the better the job".

Re airbags, one in the passengers seat is usually sufficient.

John

----- Original Message -----

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com, Larry Hamm <LDHAMM@X...> wrote:
My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the
belts
(and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY
HARD.
On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm
diameter.

Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q bolts
don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't
provide any
more security, huh?

Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??

Larry Hamm
"SubyQ"


Sam Kittle
 

Larry,

I have been looking at installing my belt anchors and am really more concerned about the 7 layers of BID to the inside skin. I am thinking of cutting through the inside skin, removing the clark foam and then accomplishing the lay-up to the inside of the outside skin.

It looks to me that the AN4 bolt is stronger than the lay-up to the inside skin. But I am not an engineer.

Sam

Larry Hamm wrote:

My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the belts (and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY HARD. On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm diameter.

Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q bolts don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't provide any more security, huh?

Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??

Larry Hamm
"SubyQ"




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links









Neil Jepsen <njepsen@...>
 

Actually John, you beat me to it. I got 6136 lbs tensile-- perhaps your rounding and my rounding don't agree ( grin).


JohntenHave wrote:


Hmmm,

125ksi tensile min, 1/4 inch bolts, 6135# tensile ultimate, shear =
0.75 tensile, 4601# ultimate shear, 200# pilot, 9g forward restraint,
safety factor 2.5...
Looks alright to me...and there are four of them.... still,
biggerizing cannot be bad - remember the golden rule of welding? "
the bigger the blob, the better the job".

Re airbags, one in the passengers seat is usually sufficient.

John
----- Original Message -----

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com, Larry Hamm <LDHAMM@X...> wrote:
My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the
belts
(and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY
HARD.
On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm
diameter.

Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q bolts
don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't
provide any
more security, huh?

Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??

Larry Hamm
"SubyQ"




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org




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Larry Hamm <LDHAMM@...>
 

Sam,

I, too, wonder about the ability of the glass to hold 9G forces. Maybe about ten plies of six inch wide UNI, run as far to the rear as possible?

Thanks also to John and Neil, but since your answers don't match, I'll have to throw them out. No, seriously, it sounds like the AN-4 will do the job. Since I'm not planning on ever trying it out, I should be fine!

Larry

Sam Kittle wrote:

Larry,
I have been looking at installing my belt anchors and am really more concerned about the 7 layers of BID to the inside skin. I am thinking of cutting through the inside skin, removing the clark foam and then accomplishing the lay-up to the inside of the outside skin. It looks to me that the AN4 bolt is stronger than the lay-up to the inside skin. But I am not an engineer.
Sam
Larry Hamm wrote:

My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the belts (and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY HARD. On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm diameter.

Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q bolts don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't provide any more security, huh?

Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??

Larry Hamm
"SubyQ"




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links









Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org
Yahoo! Groups Links


Jim Patillo
 

Larry & Sam,

How many people have crashed these things? (Lots) How many people
have lived? (Lots) How many died because the seatbelt failed?
(Debatable) How many people built per plans? (Lots) See where I'm
going with this. Just build it per plans and move on. You need to
consider making double mount points in the main wing for each set of
belts. This will eliminate the harness cutting into your neck while
flying problem.

Jim Patillo In California where the sun never shines anymore.



--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com, Larry Hamm <LDHAMM@X...> wrote:
Sam,

I, too, wonder about the ability of the glass to hold 9G forces.
Maybe
about ten plies of six inch wide UNI, run as far to the rear as
possible?

Thanks also to John and Neil, but since your answers don't match,
I'll
have to throw them out. No, seriously, it sounds like the AN-4 will
do
the job. Since I'm not planning on ever trying it out, I should be
fine!

Larry

Sam Kittle wrote:
Larry,

I have been looking at installing my belt anchors and am really
more
concerned about the 7 layers of BID to the inside skin. I am
thinking
of cutting through the inside skin, removing the clark foam and
then
accomplishing the lay-up to the inside of the outside skin.

It looks to me that the AN4 bolt is stronger than the lay-up to
the
inside skin. But I am not an engineer.

Sam

Larry Hamm wrote:


My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the
belts
(and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY
HARD.
On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm
diameter.

Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q
bolts
don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't
provide any
more security, huh?

Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??

Larry Hamm
"SubyQ"




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links














Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








Paul Buckley
 

Somewhere in an old Q-talk there is a suggested modification to the seat belt attach points, utilising the outside skin.
I am a little hazy about it but I think it involved removing a section of the inner skin and foam and floxing in a 3/8 ply reinforcing plate, then applying the glass reinforcing patches on the inside. The holes for the fastening bolts are then drilled all the way through the fus. side, countersunk on the outside and the appropriate AN4 bolts used. Any depression left on the fus. skin is filled with flox and a one ply bid patch applied (if considered neccessary)

Paul Buckley
TriQ-200
Cheshire
England.

----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Hamm
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts


Sam,

I, too, wonder about the ability of the glass to hold 9G forces. Maybe
about ten plies of six inch wide UNI, run as far to the rear as possible?

Thanks also to John and Neil, but since your answers don't match, I'll
have to throw them out. No, seriously, it sounds like the AN-4 will do
the job. Since I'm not planning on ever trying it out, I should be fine!

Larry

Sam Kittle wrote:
> Larry,
>
> I have been looking at installing my belt anchors and am really more
> concerned about the 7 layers of BID to the inside skin. I am thinking
> of cutting through the inside skin, removing the clark foam and then
> accomplishing the lay-up to the inside of the outside skin.
>
> It looks to me that the AN4 bolt is stronger than the lay-up to the
> inside skin. But I am not an engineer.
>
> Sam
>
> Larry Hamm wrote:
>
>
>>My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the belts
>>(and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY HARD.
>>On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm diameter.
>>
>>Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q bolts
>>don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't provide any
>>more security, huh?
>>
>>Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??
>>
>>Larry Hamm
>>"SubyQ"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Quickie Builders Association WEB site
>>http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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Sam Kittle
 

Jim,

Thanks for the advice.

Sam

Jim Patillo wrote:


Larry & Sam,

How many people have crashed these things? (Lots) How many people
have lived? (Lots) How many died because the seatbelt failed?
(Debatable) How many people built per plans? (Lots) See where I'm
going with this. Just build it per plans and move on. You need to
consider making double mount points in the main wing for each set of
belts. This will eliminate the harness cutting into your neck while
flying problem.

Jim Patillo In California where the sun never shines anymore.



--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com, Larry Hamm <LDHAMM@X...> wrote:


Sam,

I, too, wonder about the ability of the glass to hold 9G forces.

Maybe


about ten plies of six inch wide UNI, run as far to the rear as

possible?


Thanks also to John and Neil, but since your answers don't match,

I'll


have to throw them out. No, seriously, it sounds like the AN-4 will

do


the job. Since I'm not planning on ever trying it out, I should be

fine!


Larry

Sam Kittle wrote:


Larry,

I have been looking at installing my belt anchors and am really

more


concerned about the 7 layers of BID to the inside skin. I am

thinking


of cutting through the inside skin, removing the clark foam and

then


accomplishing the lay-up to the inside of the outside skin.

It looks to me that the AN4 bolt is stronger than the lay-up to

the


inside skin. But I am not an engineer.

Sam

Larry Hamm wrote:




My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the

belts


(and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY

HARD.


On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm

diameter.


Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q

bolts


don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't

provide any


more security, huh?

Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??

Larry Hamm
"SubyQ"




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links














Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links














Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links











Larry Hamm <LDHAMM@...>
 

OK, Jim, which is it, build per plans or make two wing mount points each seat? :) (I appreciate the tip!)

I had just noticed the gross disparity in size between the anchor bolts in my van and in a Q and was wondering. I guess there aren't too many head on collisions in the air.

Larry
In Utah where the sun shines except when Cali sends it's crud up here.

Jim Patillo wrote:

Larry & Sam,
How many people have crashed these things? (Lots) How many people have lived? (Lots) How many died because the seatbelt failed? (Debatable) How many people built per plans? (Lots) See where I'm going with this. Just build it per plans and move on. You need to consider making double mount points in the main wing for each set of belts. This will eliminate the harness cutting into your neck while flying problem. Jim Patillo In California where the sun never shines anymore.


Larry Hamm <LDHAMM@...>
 

Paul,
Thanks for that info. I'll see if I can find that issue.
Larry

Paul Buckley wrote:

Somewhere in an old Q-talk there is a suggested modification to the
seat belt attach points, utilising the outside skin. I am a little
hazy about it but I think it involved removing a section of the inner
skin and foam and floxing in a 3/8 ply reinforcing plate, then
applying the glass reinforcing patches on the inside. The holes for
the fastening bolts are then drilled all the way through the fus.
side, countersunk on the outside and the appropriate AN4 bolts used.
Any depression left on the fus. skin is filled with flox and a one
ply bid patch applied (if considered neccessary)

Paul Buckley TriQ-200 Cheshire England.


Jim Patillo
 

Larry,

Build per plans. The dual mount on the shoulder straps are a confort
thing but I've flown both types and don't like getting my neck cut
by harnesses. Besides its unconfortable. IMHO.

Regards
Jim P.


--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com, Larry Hamm <LDHAMM@X...> wrote:
OK, Jim, which is it, build per plans or make two wing mount
points each
seat? :) (I appreciate the tip!)

I had just noticed the gross disparity in size between the anchor
bolts
in my van and in a Q and was wondering. I guess there aren't too
many
head on collisions in the air.

Larry
In Utah where the sun shines except when Cali sends it's crud up
here.

Jim Patillo wrote:


Larry & Sam,

How many people have crashed these things? (Lots) How many
people
have lived? (Lots) How many died because the seatbelt failed?
(Debatable) How many people built per plans? (Lots) See where
I'm
going with this. Just build it per plans and move on. You need
to
consider making double mount points in the main wing for each
set of
belts. This will eliminate the harness cutting into your neck
while
flying problem.

Jim Patillo In California where the sun never shines anymore.


Gordon Givens
 

For what it is worth Velocity does it by removing the top skin, digging out the foam, packing it with mico-glass, and inserting the aluminum hardpoint and glassing over it with two plies of bid. If you go to Andy Millin's website at http://www.kal-soft.com/velocity/ and go to photos 261 and 262 he shows it very well.

Gord
Q2 Builder
Ottawa, Canada

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Buckley
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts


Somewhere in an old Q-talk there is a suggested modification to the seat belt attach points, utilising the outside skin.
I am a little hazy about it but I think it involved removing a section of the inner skin and foam and floxing in a 3/8 ply reinforcing plate, then applying the glass reinforcing patches on the inside. The holes for the fastening bolts are then drilled all the way through the fus. side, countersunk on the outside and the appropriate AN4 bolts used. Any depression left on the fus. skin is filled with flox and a one ply bid patch applied (if considered neccessary)

Paul Buckley
TriQ-200
Cheshire
England.

----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Hamm
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts


Sam,

I, too, wonder about the ability of the glass to hold 9G forces. Maybe
about ten plies of six inch wide UNI, run as far to the rear as possible?

Thanks also to John and Neil, but since your answers don't match, I'll
have to throw them out. No, seriously, it sounds like the AN-4 will do
the job. Since I'm not planning on ever trying it out, I should be fine!

Larry

Sam Kittle wrote:
> Larry,
>
> I have been looking at installing my belt anchors and am really more
> concerned about the 7 layers of BID to the inside skin. I am thinking
> of cutting through the inside skin, removing the clark foam and then
> accomplishing the lay-up to the inside of the outside skin.
>
> It looks to me that the AN4 bolt is stronger than the lay-up to the
> inside skin. But I am not an engineer.
>
> Sam
>
> Larry Hamm wrote:
>
>
>>My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the belts
>>(and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY HARD.
>>On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm diameter.
>>
>>Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q bolts
>>don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't provide any
>>more security, huh?
>>
>>Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??
>>
>>Larry Hamm
>>"SubyQ"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Quickie Builders Association WEB site
>>http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

Get unlimited calls to

U.S./Canada




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Larry Hamm <LDHAMM@...>
 

Jim,
I know what you're saying, and I'd love to build per plans, but there's that Jim-Bob sixpack, and draggy wheelpants, and limited tankage, and engines that don't suit me, and whatever else needs changing after twenty-five years! :)
I think I can use the single wing anchor bolt on each side, and route the shoulder harnesses through two slots instead of one. That should help.

Jim Patillo wrote:

Larry,
Build per plans. The dual mount on the shoulder straps are a confort thing but I've flown both types and don't like getting my neck cut by harnesses. Besides its unconfortable. IMHO.
Regards Jim P.


Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

Early on, I had an accident. You can read all the gory details here:
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/early_years.htm

When it was all over, the aircraft had flipped upside down, I had a broken
tailcone, rear wing, canopy. Prop and cowling.

For what it's worth, the seatbelt attachments held.

Sam



_____

From: Paul Buckley [mailto:paulbuckley@onetel.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:25 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts



Somewhere in an old Q-talk there is a suggested modification to the seat
belt attach points, utilising the outside skin.
I am a little hazy about it but I think it involved removing a section of
the inner skin and foam and floxing in a 3/8 ply reinforcing plate, then
applying the glass reinforcing patches on the inside. The holes for the
fastening bolts are then drilled all the way through the fus. side,
countersunk on the outside and the appropriate AN4 bolts used. Any
depression left on the fus. skin is filled with flox and a one ply bid patch
applied (if considered neccessary)

Paul Buckley
TriQ-200
Cheshire
England.

----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Hamm
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts


Sam,

I, too, wonder about the ability of the glass to hold 9G forces. Maybe
about ten plies of six inch wide UNI, run as far to the rear as possible?

Thanks also to John and Neil, but since your answers don't match, I'll
have to throw them out. No, seriously, it sounds like the AN-4 will do
the job. Since I'm not planning on ever trying it out, I should be fine!

Larry

Sam Kittle wrote:
> Larry,
>
> I have been looking at installing my belt anchors and am really more
> concerned about the 7 layers of BID to the inside skin. I am thinking

> of cutting through the inside skin, removing the clark foam and then
> accomplishing the lay-up to the inside of the outside skin.
>
> It looks to me that the AN4 bolt is stronger than the lay-up to the
> inside skin. But I am not an engineer.
>
> Sam
>
> Larry Hamm wrote:
>
>
>>My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the belts
>>(and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY HARD.
>>On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm diameter.
>>
>>Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q bolts
>>don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't provide any

>>more security, huh?
>>
>>Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??
>>
>>Larry Hamm
>>"SubyQ"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Quickie Builders Association WEB site
>>http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

Get unlimited calls to

U.S./Canada




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Paul Buckley
 

Hi Sam

Interesting write up, I guess that the dice were on your side that day!
Do you think though, that you gave the belt attach points a real workout? (I asume that they are built as per plans)
Perhaps your speed was not that great at moment of flip over, though the thought of you hanging upside down as the vertical stab. slammed into the ground makes me wince.
As a matter of interest, do you have the full canopy bulkhead or is it cut away as I previously mentioned?

Regards

Paul Buckley

----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:42 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts


Early on, I had an accident. You can read all the gory details here:
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/early_years.htm

When it was all over, the aircraft had flipped upside down, I had a broken
tailcone, rear wing, canopy. Prop and cowling.

For what it's worth, the seatbelt attachments held.

Sam



_____

From: Paul Buckley [mailto:paulbuckley@onetel.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:25 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts



Somewhere in an old Q-talk there is a suggested modification to the seat
belt attach points, utilising the outside skin.
I am a little hazy about it but I think it involved removing a section of
the inner skin and foam and floxing in a 3/8 ply reinforcing plate, then
applying the glass reinforcing patches on the inside. The holes for the
fastening bolts are then drilled all the way through the fus. side,
countersunk on the outside and the appropriate AN4 bolts used. Any
depression left on the fus. skin is filled with flox and a one ply bid patch
applied (if considered neccessary)

Paul Buckley
TriQ-200
Cheshire
England.

----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Hamm
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts


Sam,

I, too, wonder about the ability of the glass to hold 9G forces. Maybe
about ten plies of six inch wide UNI, run as far to the rear as possible?

Thanks also to John and Neil, but since your answers don't match, I'll
have to throw them out. No, seriously, it sounds like the AN-4 will do
the job. Since I'm not planning on ever trying it out, I should be fine!

Larry

Sam Kittle wrote:
> Larry,
>
> I have been looking at installing my belt anchors and am really more
> concerned about the 7 layers of BID to the inside skin. I am thinking

> of cutting through the inside skin, removing the clark foam and then
> accomplishing the lay-up to the inside of the outside skin.
>
> It looks to me that the AN4 bolt is stronger than the lay-up to the
> inside skin. But I am not an engineer.
>
> Sam
>
> Larry Hamm wrote:
>
>
>>My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the belts
>>(and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY HARD.
>>On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm diameter.
>>
>>Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q bolts
>>don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't provide any

>>more security, huh?
>>
>>Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??
>>
>>Larry Hamm
>>"SubyQ"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Quickie Builders Association WEB site
>>http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




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Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

Paul, my canopy bulkhead is trimmed to about a 3 inch lip all the way
around.

Sam



_____

From: Paul Buckley [mailto:paulbuckley@onetel.com]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:25 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts



Hi Sam

Interesting write up, I guess that the dice were on your side that day!
Do you think though, that you gave the belt attach points a real workout? (I
asume that they are built as per plans)
Perhaps your speed was not that great at moment of flip over, though the
thought of you hanging upside down as the vertical stab. slammed into the
ground makes me wince.
As a matter of interest, do you have the full canopy bulkhead or is it cut
away as I previously mentioned?

Regards

Paul Buckley

----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:42 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts


Early on, I had an accident. You can read all the gory details here:
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/early_years.htm

When it was all over, the aircraft had flipped upside down, I had a broken
tailcone, rear wing, canopy. Prop and cowling.

For what it's worth, the seatbelt attachments held.

Sam



_____

From: Paul Buckley [mailto:paulbuckley@onetel.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:25 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts



Somewhere in an old Q-talk there is a suggested modification to the seat
belt attach points, utilising the outside skin.
I am a little hazy about it but I think it involved removing a section of
the inner skin and foam and floxing in a 3/8 ply reinforcing plate, then
applying the glass reinforcing patches on the inside. The holes for the
fastening bolts are then drilled all the way through the fus. side,
countersunk on the outside and the appropriate AN4 bolts used. Any
depression left on the fus. skin is filled with flox and a one ply bid
patch
applied (if considered neccessary)

Paul Buckley
TriQ-200
Cheshire
England.

----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Hamm
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Seat belt anchor bolts


Sam,

I, too, wonder about the ability of the glass to hold 9G forces. Maybe
about ten plies of six inch wide UNI, run as far to the rear as
possible?

Thanks also to John and Neil, but since your answers don't match, I'll
have to throw them out. No, seriously, it sounds like the AN-4 will do
the job. Since I'm not planning on ever trying it out, I should be fine!

Larry

Sam Kittle wrote:
> Larry,
>
> I have been looking at installing my belt anchors and am really more
> concerned about the 7 layers of BID to the inside skin. I am
thinking

> of cutting through the inside skin, removing the clark foam and then
> accomplishing the lay-up to the inside of the outside skin.
>
> It looks to me that the AN4 bolt is stronger than the lay-up to the
> inside skin. But I am not an engineer.
>
> Sam
>
> Larry Hamm wrote:
>
>
>>My van has metric grade 8.8 bolts, 10mm diameter, anchoring the belts
>>(and me). They feel very strong, even when I yank on them REALLY HARD.

>>On the other hand, the Q plans call for AN4 bolts, about 6mm diameter.
>>
>>Do 1/4" bolts really seem sufficient? Then again, since the Q bolts
>>don't have much to hang on to, I guess bigger bolts wouldn't provide
any

>>more security, huh?
>>
>>Should I leave out the header tank and install airbags??
>>
>>Larry Hamm
>>"SubyQ"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Quickie Builders Association WEB site
>>http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

Get unlimited calls to

U.S./Canada





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Service.






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