#### Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>

John,

Thanks for outlining the procedure. Some questions.... Hmmm. I don't know enough to even ask a question!

Joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: JohntenHave
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:57 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Joseph,

Do not guess.

let me give you an outline of how to calculate what you need.

Firstly work backwards from what it does (or more accurately) what
you want it to do. In this case deploy and slow the aircraft down.

So work out the area, and how fast it could inadvertently be deployed
(do not be tempted to think this will never happen to me!). That will
give you the load to be reacted. Guess high speed. Assume opens at 90
deg to airflow. The Safety factor is then applied to the load. Say
2.5. Next figure out how the loads will flow, i.e. from the uniform
distributed load on the plate to the attachment points and the
actuator attachment.

Next trick is to analyse the loads at the concentration points for
the load cases, eg shear around the head if you are trying to pull
the bolt through the material, compressive stress if you are trying
to load the fastener in shear, edge distance analysis for failure due
to pull out, etc, get the picture?

Put sufficient material in place to react the safety factored load.

Then consider the whole plate as a beam attached with a pin joint at
one end and a simple support at the actuator and consider the
bending lengthways and across the beam. Make sure the load does not
exceed the allowables for hand layup.

Next port of call is to put your feet on the desk and think about
failure modes, what could happen if it broke? If it broke, where
would be the best place for it to break? If you were in a crash and
it was deployed would it spear you or would you prefer it to break
before it got to you?

Then think about where the loads go in the fuselage, With this sort
of thing, it is often better to make sure that the parent structure
does not fail under limit load whilst the airbrake remains intact.
i.e match the strengths or deliberately design the part to fail first.

Then lay out the materials to meet the requirements. As a flat sheet
you might well find that for most of the loads that the part sees, it
is too strong but it is simpler to make, and light enough to tolerate.

Last check, reverse engineer what was done before as a cross check (
and be prepared for a few revelations...)

Hope this helps

John

-- In Q-LIST@..., "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@m...> wrote:
> I would do the layup on the unblemished belly. After that's done,
then dig
> out the foam per plans. I have now idea about the orientation.
Maybe one
> of our composite engineers could chime in.
>
> Sam
>
> http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:20 PM
> To: Q-LIST@...
> Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard
>
>
>
> Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove
1/8" foam,
> then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon
fiber
> cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never
used
> carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129lkt5td/M=298184.6018725.7038619.300117
6/D=gr
>
oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109899209/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:
/www.n
>
>
>
M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=
> :HM/A=2593423/rand=326108325>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>

Yes, I have a copy of the belly board installation plans. There is a diagram of the control arm but no template of the board itself.

Joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: HawkiDoug
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

You do have the belly board plans right? If not, they are on the web site in
pdf format under Resources/Plans. I assume you have them but if not go there
and get them.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 8:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

>
> I would do the layup on the unblemished belly. After that's done, then
> dig
> out the foam per plans. I have now idea about the orientation. Maybe one
> of our composite engineers could chime in.
>
> Sam
>
> http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:20 PM
> To: Q-LIST@...
> Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard
>
>
>
> Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove 1/8"
> foam,
> then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon fiber
> cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never used
> carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129lkt5td/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr
> oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109899209/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:/www.n
>
>
>
> :HM/A=2593423/rand=326108325>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
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>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>

Ben,
Thanks so much... The original size of the Q2/200 belly board was 10"x11". I will look forward to your results.

Joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: Marinus B. (Ben) Bosma
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:34 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

I'm not a composite engineer but I employ one.

.007 is a good number for thickness per ply but I can tell you that 12
layers of vacuum bagged carbon fiber is more structurally than you need.

I would suggest that if you want some thickness you put a foam core in
between 2 layers per side. Use an epoxy resin vs. a polyester and drill
1/16" holes in the foam on 1inch centers to create pilings between skins.
Vacuum infuse.

I'll run the analysis in the morning on a 24" X 12" against a 200knot
sea-level breeze and see how close I am. A board that size is probably
equal to the total drag of the rest of the airplane if not more.

The format for that is w/w/fc.5/w/w where w=weave, fc=foam core

If you can find a small patch of honeycomb all the better but that means
laying up two plies and bonding them over a honeycomb to keep resin out of
the cells.

My personal favorite is end cut balsa for core material.

-Ben
N124BB (reverse engineering a Q1)

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:09 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Yes, that would give it a better contour. If a composite engineer could
offer a carbon fiber layup schedule, that would be great. Otherwise, some
of us newbies will not be able to duplicate the 6-pack. Aircraft Spruce
says the carbon fiber bid is .007 thick. I am calculating that I would need
about 12-13 layers. I can get 12 pieces from 1 sq. yd. of bid. I may have
to "wing" it.

Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 9:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

I would do the layup on the unblemished belly. After that's done, then
dig
out the foam per plans. I have now idea about the orientation. Maybe one
of our composite engineers could chime in.

Sam

http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:20 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove 1/8"
foam,
then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon fiber
cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never used
carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?

Joseph

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129lkt5td/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr

oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109899209/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:/www.n

:HM/A=2593423/rand=326108325>

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Ron Triano <rondefly@...>

Joe, you're on the right track. If you can, just flip the fuselage upside
down, put some wax paper in the area and do the layup right where you want
it per Sams suggestion. You can look on my web site to see how I flip mine
around when needed. Sure makes it easy to work in some of the hard to get to
places. According to what kind of cloth you get you will need to alternate
the direction of the fibers for strength.

Ron & Carolyn Triano, Q200, 4710P

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page8.html

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:09 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Yes, that would give it a better contour. If a composite engineer could
offer a carbon fiber layup schedule, that would be great. Otherwise, some
of us newbies will not be able to duplicate the 6-pack. Aircraft Spruce
says the carbon fiber bid is .007 thick. I am calculating that I would need
about 12-13 layers. I can get 12 pieces from 1 sq. yd. of bid. I may have
to "wing" it.

Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 9:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

I would do the layup on the unblemished belly. After that's done, then
dig
out the foam per plans. I have now idea about the orientation. Maybe one
of our composite engineers could chime in.

Sam

http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:20 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove 1/8"
foam,
then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon fiber
cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never used
carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?

Joseph

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129lkt5td/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr

oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109899209/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:/www.n

:HM/A=2593423/rand=326108325>

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oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109905759/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.

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damiantwinsport@...

In regards to lay up since it is rather flat you want to do a balanced lay up 90, 0,45+.45- 0,90 of Bid.
Then the part will not come off looking like a potato chip,
Regards,
Damian Gregory N8427

-----Original Message-----
From: HawkiDoug <hawkidoug@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 21:48:07 -0600
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

You do have the belly board plans right? If not, they are on the web site in
pdf format under Resources/Plans. I assume you have them but if not go there
and get them.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 8:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

I would do the layup on the unblemished belly. After that's done, then
dig
out the foam per plans. I have now idea about the orientation. Maybe one
of our composite engineers could chime in.

Sam

http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:20 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove 1/8"
foam,
then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon fiber
cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never used
carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?

Joseph

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129lkt5td/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109899209/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:/www.n

:HM/A=2593423/rand=326108325>

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Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

JohntenHave <Jtenhave@...>

Joseph,

Do not guess.

let me give you an outline of how to calculate what you need.

Firstly work backwards from what it does (or more accurately) what
you want it to do. In this case deploy and slow the aircraft down.

So work out the area, and how fast it could inadvertently be deployed
(do not be tempted to think this will never happen to me!). That will
give you the load to be reacted. Guess high speed. Assume opens at 90
deg to airflow. The Safety factor is then applied to the load. Say
2.5. Next figure out how the loads will flow, i.e. from the uniform
distributed load on the plate to the attachment points and the
actuator attachment.

Next trick is to analyse the loads at the concentration points for
the load cases, eg shear around the head if you are trying to pull
the bolt through the material, compressive stress if you are trying
to load the fastener in shear, edge distance analysis for failure due
to pull out, etc, get the picture?

Put sufficient material in place to react the safety factored load.

Then consider the whole plate as a beam attached with a pin joint at
one end and a simple support at the actuator and consider the
bending lengthways and across the beam. Make sure the load does not
exceed the allowables for hand layup.

Next port of call is to put your feet on the desk and think about
failure modes, what could happen if it broke? If it broke, where
would be the best place for it to break? If you were in a crash and
it was deployed would it spear you or would you prefer it to break
before it got to you?

Then think about where the loads go in the fuselage, With this sort
of thing, it is often better to make sure that the parent structure
does not fail under limit load whilst the airbrake remains intact.
i.e match the strengths or deliberately design the part to fail first.

Then lay out the materials to meet the requirements. As a flat sheet
you might well find that for most of the loads that the part sees, it
is too strong but it is simpler to make, and light enough to tolerate.

Last check, reverse engineer what was done before as a cross check (
and be prepared for a few revelations...)

Hope this helps

John

-- In Q-LIST@..., "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@m...> wrote:
I would do the layup on the unblemished belly. After that's done,
then dig
out the foam per plans. I have now idea about the orientation.
Maybe one
of our composite engineers could chime in.

Sam

http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@a...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:20 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove
1/8" foam,
then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon
fiber
cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never
used
carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?

Joseph

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129lkt5td/M=298184.6018725.7038619.300117
6/D=gr
oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109899209/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:
/www.n

M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2593423/rand=326108325>

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Jim Patillo

Joseph,

I made my belly board from several plys of bid to about 1/8"
thickness. At 550 hours of usage it shows no sign of fatigue. I
deploy it for every landing. Board is about 10" x 10".

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Joseph Snow" <1flashq@a...> wrote:
Yes, that would give it a better contour. If a composite engineer
could offer a carbon fiber layup schedule, that would be great.
Otherwise, some of us newbies will not be able to duplicate the 6-
pack. Aircraft Spruce says the carbon fiber bid is .007 thick. I am
calculating that I would need about 12-13 layers. I can get 12
pieces from 1 sq. yd. of bid. I may have to "wing" it.

Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 9:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

I would do the layup on the unblemished belly. After that's
done, then dig
out the foam per plans. I have now idea about the orientation.
Maybe one
of our composite engineers could chime in.

Sam

http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@a...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:20 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove
1/8" foam,
then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon
fiber
cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never
used
carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?

Joseph

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129lkt5td/M=298184.6018725.7038619.300117
6/D=gr
oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109899209/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:
/www.n

M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2593423/rand=326108325>

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Service.

HawkiDoug <hawkidoug@...>

You do have the belly board plans right? If not, they are on the web site in pdf format under Resources/Plans. I assume you have them but if not go there and get them.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 8:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

I would do the layup on the unblemished belly. After that's done, then dig
out the foam per plans. I have now idea about the orientation. Maybe one
of our composite engineers could chime in.

Sam

http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:20 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove 1/8" foam,
then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon fiber
cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never used
carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?

Joseph

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129lkt5td/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109899209/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:/www.n

:HM/A=2593423/rand=326108325>

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Marinus B. &#92;(Ben&#92;) Bosma <ben@...>

I'm not a composite engineer but I employ one.

.007 is a good number for thickness per ply but I can tell you that 12
layers of vacuum bagged carbon fiber is more structurally than you need.

I would suggest that if you want some thickness you put a foam core in
between 2 layers per side. Use an epoxy resin vs. a polyester and drill
1/16" holes in the foam on 1inch centers to create pilings between skins.
Vacuum infuse.

I'll run the analysis in the morning on a 24" X 12" against a 200knot
sea-level breeze and see how close I am. A board that size is probably
equal to the total drag of the rest of the airplane if not more.

The format for that is w/w/fc.5/w/w where w=weave, fc=foam core

If you can find a small patch of honeycomb all the better but that means
laying up two plies and bonding them over a honeycomb to keep resin out of
the cells.

My personal favorite is end cut balsa for core material.

-Ben
N124BB (reverse engineering a Q1)

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:09 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Yes, that would give it a better contour. If a composite engineer could
offer a carbon fiber layup schedule, that would be great. Otherwise, some
of us newbies will not be able to duplicate the 6-pack. Aircraft Spruce
says the carbon fiber bid is .007 thick. I am calculating that I would need
about 12-13 layers. I can get 12 pieces from 1 sq. yd. of bid. I may have
to "wing" it.

Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 9:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

I would do the layup on the unblemished belly. After that's done, then
dig
out the foam per plans. I have now idea about the orientation. Maybe one
of our composite engineers could chime in.

Sam

http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:20 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove 1/8"
foam,
then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon fiber
cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never used
carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?

Joseph

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Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>

Yes, that would give it a better contour. If a composite engineer could offer a carbon fiber layup schedule, that would be great. Otherwise, some of us newbies will not be able to duplicate the 6-pack. Aircraft Spruce says the carbon fiber bid is .007 thick. I am calculating that I would need about 12-13 layers. I can get 12 pieces from 1 sq. yd. of bid. I may have to "wing" it.

Joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 9:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

I would do the layup on the unblemished belly. After that's done, then dig
out the foam per plans. I have now idea about the orientation. Maybe one
of our composite engineers could chime in.

Sam

http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:20 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove 1/8" foam,
then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon fiber
cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never used
carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?

Joseph

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129lkt5td/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109899209/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:/www.n

:HM/A=2593423/rand=326108325>

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Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>

I would do the layup on the unblemished belly. After that's done, then dig
out the foam per plans. I have now idea about the orientation. Maybe one
of our composite engineers could chime in.

Sam

http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:20 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove 1/8" foam,
then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon fiber
cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never used
carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?

Joseph

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129lkt5td/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109899209/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:/www.n

:HM/A=2593423/rand=326108325>

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Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>

Ok, that makes sense. I could cut out the 10" x 11" skin, remove 1/8" foam, then vacuum bag the layup. Any idea on orientation of the carbon fiber cloth, i.e., front to back, side to side, 45 deg. ? I have never used carbon fiber cloth. Should it be Uni or Bid?

Joseph

Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>

_____

From: Joseph Snow [mailto:1flashq@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 5:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Thrust Line & Bellyboard

Regarding your second question. Yes the board was made out of carbon fiber.
It is about 1/8" thick. The best way would probably do a vacuum bag lay-up
of carbon fiber, using the belly of the aircraft to get your shape.

Sam

Second Question: I am, tonight, starting on the bellyboard. As I read the
instructions, it seems that QAC provided a carbon fiber bellyboard as part
of the speed brake modification kit. I do not have this kit. So, I will
have to fabricate all of the parts. Question(s): Was the original
bellyboard constructed of carbon fiber? If so, does anyone know how many
layers of carbon fiber cloth? Or, can a board be constructed of bid/uni and
what would be the layup schedule?

Joseph Snow

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129qf0cba/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705065618:HM/EXP=1109893442/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:/www.n

:HM/A=2593423/rand=350963981>

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Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>

I have two questions I would like to address.

Thrust Line: I have asked this question before, e.g. What is the location of the crankshaft centerline on the firewall of a Q200? Also, what is the relationship of this location to the intersection of BL00 and WL 15,

Several people responded with measurements referenced in the builder manual for the Q2 and the Q200. Can someone tell me if the location of the crankshaft center line is the same for a VW engine and for an O-200 engine. I am wondering if the lower powered VW centerline might be above the location of the centerline of the O-200. This is why I would like to know where the centerlines are located in relation to BL00/WL15. I have not had either of these engines, so I cannot determine the locations for myself. I am thinking that if the VW power rating places the centerline about one inch above WL15 on BL00 and the higher powered O-200 (rated at 100 hp) is lower, then a Corvair rated at 110 hp might be lower. I believe someone has installed a Lycoming O-235 (115 hp) and another a Jibaroo (? hp). At one time someone said the thrust line is BL00 and WL15. I suppose the Corvair should be located either between the O-200 and the O-235 or at some consensus location in reference to BL00/WL15. I am about to build the final version of my motor mount which prompts this request for a consensus of the correct location.

Second Question: I am, tonight, starting on the bellyboard. As I read the instructions, it seems that QAC provided a carbon fiber bellyboard as part of the speed brake modification kit. I do not have this kit. So, I will have to fabricate all of the parts. Question(s): Was the original bellyboard constructed of carbon fiber? If so, does anyone know how many layers of carbon fiber cloth? Or, can a board be constructed of bid/uni and what would be the layup schedule?

Joseph Snow

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