Brad,

While John Tenhave is correct in stating the decision you make now
can take several years to build, there's nothing faster or more fun
for the money than a Q200, which I doubt John has ever riden in.

I know I'll get hastled for this but, the fact of the matter is,
when a Quickie and Dragonfly event takes place almost anywhere, the
planes flying and giving rides are Q200's. Why is that?
I've been around the show circuit and Tandem Wing events for many
years and the last 5 with mine. I know what I'm saying to you is
true.

I'm really not knocking the Dragonfly, in fact they are neat
airplanes with large cabins, great headroom and docile
characteristics, but they don't haul as much, handle turbulence as
well, respond to stick commands as quickly or go near as fast.
That's what makes a Quickie a Quickie.

Given the fact Rex started Dragonfly the same time as QAC and out
sold Quickie in sheer numbers of kits(Quickie went out of business
in the early 80's), why aren't more of them showing up at shows or
Oshkosh than Quickies for example. There's no question the Dragonfly
had much better backing over the years (Quickie Factory help was
nonexistant). Despite that many sucecssful Q's flying. Just look at
the Builders List and compare.

Either way you cut it these planes take a long time to build. Which
airplane you pick is obviously is a matter of preference for your
skill and comfort level. Whichever catagory you fit into is the way
you should look at it. You might want to talk to Tim Iverson on the
Dragonfly List as he got his first ride in a Q200 a couple of weeks
ago. He should be able to make a good comparison.

Further if you are serious, you may want to search out one already
built and flying. I've directed friends that way over the last few
years and there's no question it can be a good way to go. Just ask
Phil Langford, Brad Moore and Geoff Rutledge. If on the other hand
you like building and want to spend several years doing so (mine
only took 19 years)go for it. Many of us started our kits when we
were young now were getting old. That doesn't leave many years for
flying.

I can honestly say that "reality has exceeded my dreams" but knowing
what I know now, I would have bought my Quickie if that option had
been available then! I hope this helps, By the way, I'm an idiot and
biased!

Jim Patillo 600 hours in N46JP Q200 and loving every minute of it.



<Jtenhave@m...> wrote:

Brad,

whilst is is possible to find latent projects around,(and these

are

often the lowest entry cost option) you might be better to

consider

the dragonfly or the raptor as projects with more complete
documentation and or support. My understanding is that it is still
possible to obtain all the parts for Dragonfly without undue
difficulty. The decision you make now will knock on for several
years. May I also suggest that you do what ever is required to get

a

ride or at least a sit in the project you intend to build. There

is

nothing worse than the late realisation that your expectation did
not equal the reality. That said, there is nothing better than
finding the reality exceeds the dream!

John

--- In Q-LIST@..., Brad Walker <bwalker@m...> wrote:

I'm seriously looking at building a Q-200 and I appreciate all

the

help that

people have provided.

Is there going to be a gathering of quickies at Oshkosh or bbq

or

anything.

I've attended Oshkosh in the past but never with the intention

of

purchasing

a kit. Well, now is the time to make the plunge. I was hoping

meet

people

and ask a lot of questions.

Thanks.

-brad w.

ps: I can't make the Tandem Wing Spring Fling because I'm out of

town.. 8-(

Jim:

Just ask
Phil Langford, Brad Moore and Geoff Rutledge.



That's Lankford! with a K! You're gonna upset the Langfords if you don't
stop using their name so loosely.

By the way, the well built Q200 is a better airplane than I thought could be
in existence - Two people side by side with modest baggage, 180 MPH
everywhere, 6 GPH, small footprint and capable of sharing a hanger with other Qs,
D'Flys or Long Ezes.

Phil LanKford
N870BM

Jim,

reread my post. Unbridled enthusiasm is one thing, a viable path for
a beginner to enable construction and completion is quite another.
Brad was not asking how great Q 200s are but rather announcing his
intention to start building one.

You and I are doing him a disservice if we do not advise him of the
cold hard facts before he commits to a path which could just as well
result in a dead end. Building a "straight-forward", supported
project is hard enough that only one in ten are finished by the
orginator.

Q-200s are OK, I have flown in one but it did not take 600hrs to
decide that there are better aircraft (in my view) with respect to
visibility on approach, engineering, cockpit space, comfort, luggage
space and load carrying capacity whilst remaining within the
published weight limits. It depends what you want or what
compromises you deem reasonable.

There is one thing for sure, there is more than one answer to the
question "what can I build that will meet my flying needs?" If Brad
does the analysis and decides with all the facts that the Q200 is the
one for him, great. I am sure we will all do our best to support him.

Looking at the latest breed of Ultralights I suspect we run the risk
of morphing into a bunch of aging vintage aircraft enthusiasts....
best we do not look too closely ;-)

Regards

John







--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"
<logistics_engineering@m...> wrote:

Brad,

While John Tenhave is correct in stating the decision you make now
can take several years to build, there's nothing faster or more fun
for the money than a Q200, which I doubt John has ever riden in.

snip

John,

Opinions are just that. You stated yours, I stated mine. I suspect if
you had ever spent any time in a well built Q200 you might just have
a different feeling about it. Everything has a trade off! Your point
however is well taken. Building a composite aircraft from scratch is
not easy and without parts or help it could be a nightmare. Having
said that, our group knows the answers to most all the questions a
new builder can ask. A builder today has alot more help than I ever
did! Interestingly a Q was sold yesterday on Barnstormers, boasting
the plane had 5 of 6 of the Jim/Bob six pack mods complete. Someone
is listening and using it as a selling tool!

My "unbridled enthusiam" as you call it is what happens when one
commits to build something in his garage over a long period of time
that can be flown anywhere in the country very quickly, get it John
QUICKLY. Its the mix we all present here in this forum that makes it
fun! By the way I look forward to meeting you if you ever get around
this neck of the woods.

Brad I hope this little exchange has given you more insight into our
neat little airplanes. Whether it be a DF or Q, its great company to
be in. If I can help you in any way, please feel free to call me @
510-468-4891. I hope you have a little better feeling for what you
may be getting into. Good Luck.

Regards,

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200

P.S. Jeff, I am going to try to get several of us to your Sullivan
event in the fall.

--- In Q-LIST@..., "JohntenHave" <Jtenhave@m...> wrote:

Jim,

reread my post. Unbridled enthusiasm is one thing, a viable path

for

a beginner to enable construction and completion is quite another.
Brad was not asking how great Q 200s are but rather announcing his
intention to start building one.

You and I are doing him a disservice if we do not advise him of the
cold hard facts before he commits to a path which could just as

well

result in a dead end. Building a "straight-forward", supported
project is hard enough that only one in ten are finished by the
orginator.

Q-200s are OK, I have flown in one but it did not take 600hrs to
decide that there are better aircraft (in my view) with respect to
visibility on approach, engineering, cockpit space, comfort,

luggage

space and load carrying capacity whilst remaining within the
published weight limits. It depends what you want or what
compromises you deem reasonable.

There is one thing for sure, there is more than one answer to the
question "what can I build that will meet my flying needs?" If

Brad

does the analysis and decides with all the facts that the Q200 is

the

one for him, great. I am sure we will all do our best to support

him.

Looking at the latest breed of Ultralights I suspect we run the

risk

of morphing into a bunch of aging vintage aircraft enthusiasts....
best we do not look too closely ;-)

Regards

John







--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"
<logistics_engineering@m...> wrote:

Brad,

While John Tenhave is correct in stating the decision you make

now

can take several years to build, there's nothing faster or more

fun

for the money than a Q200, which I doubt John has ever riden in.

snip

Brad,

Where are you located ? About a year ago, I was exactly in you shoes Q vs DF - Build vs buy etc. Spent a lot of time reading old posts from the Q and DF pages (learned alot) also emailed Jeff extensively and read Dave Morris's web page cover to cover and many others from both groups. After 100s of hrs of research, I started looking at projects for sale (huge variance in price and quality). Ended up with a once flying project that has been reassembled and with good weather this weekend should get the final sign off and some some intype experience so I can begin enjoying it.

Post of interest that helped me decide were ones pertaining to:
VGs and LS-1
Trike and taildraggers
Flight characteristics etc

To me the issues were safety, cost and timing and both groups will help you with all the details on either (90% you get overwhelmed with varied responses so you can appreaciate it from several views).

I am far from an expert but would be happy to share anything I have learned over the last year.
Tad Simpson
N1007P (KDEC)
Praying for good weather for this weekend 8-)

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

John,

Opinions are just that. You stated yours, I stated mine. I suspect if
you had ever spent any time in a well built Q200 you might just have
a different feeling about it. Everything has a trade off! Your point
however is well taken. Building a composite aircraft from scratch is
not easy and without parts or help it could be a nightmare. Having
said that, our group knows the answers to most all the questions a
new builder can ask. A builder today has alot more help than I ever
did! Interestingly a Q was sold yesterday on Barnstormers, boasting
the plane had 5 of 6 of the Jim/Bob six pack mods complete. Someone
is listening and using it as a selling tool!

My "unbridled enthusiam" as you call it is what happens when one
commits to build something in his garage over a long period of time
that can be flown anywhere in the country very quickly, get it John
QUICKLY. Its the mix we all present here in this forum that makes it
fun! By the way I look forward to meeting you if you ever get around
this neck of the woods.

Brad I hope this little exchange has given you more insight into our
neat little airplanes. Whether it be a DF or Q, its great company to
be in. If I can help you in any way, please feel free to call me @
510-468-4891. I hope you have a little better feeling for what you
may be getting into. Good Luck.

Regards,

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200

P.S. Jeff, I am going to try to get several of us to your Sullivan
event in the fall.

--- In Q-LIST@..., "JohntenHave" <Jtenhave@m...> wrote:

Jim,

reread my post. Unbridled enthusiasm is one thing, a viable path

for

a beginner to enable construction and completion is quite another.
Brad was not asking how great Q 200s are but rather announcing his
intention to start building one.

You and I are doing him a disservice if we do not advise him of the
cold hard facts before he commits to a path which could just as

well

result in a dead end. Building a "straight-forward", supported
project is hard enough that only one in ten are finished by the
orginator.

Q-200s are OK, I have flown in one but it did not take 600hrs to
decide that there are better aircraft (in my view) with respect to
visibility on approach, engineering, cockpit space, comfort,

luggage

space and load carrying capacity whilst remaining within the
published weight limits. It depends what you want or what
compromises you deem reasonable.

There is one thing for sure, there is more than one answer to the
question "what can I build that will meet my flying needs?" If

Brad

does the analysis and decides with all the facts that the Q200 is

the

one for him, great. I am sure we will all do our best to support

him.

Looking at the latest breed of Ultralights I suspect we run the

risk

of morphing into a bunch of aging vintage aircraft enthusiasts....
best we do not look too closely ;-)

Regards

John







--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"
<logistics_engineering@m...> wrote:

Brad,

While John Tenhave is correct in stating the decision you make

now

can take several years to build, there's nothing faster or more

fun

for the money than a Q200, which I doubt John has ever riden in.

snip

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org





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Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

Roger that Mr. Langford *********** I mean Mr. Lankford with a K! I'm
so confused. Are you coming to the canard flyin this Saturday in
Columbia, CA?

N46JP

PS: If John only knew what he was missing he would want one in his
hangar too!



In Q-LIST@..., britmcman@a... wrote:

Jim:

Just ask
Phil Langford, Brad Moore and Geoff Rutledge.



That's Lankford! with a K! You're gonna upset the Langfords if

you don't

stop using their name so loosely.

By the way, the well built Q200 is a better airplane than I thought

could be

in existence - Two people side by side with modest baggage, 180

MPH

everywhere, 6 GPH, small footprint and capable of sharing a hanger

with other Qs,

D'Flys or Long Ezes.

Phil LanKford
N870BM

Bloody hell Jim,

my bride is a saint but even she would lynch me! A Q1, a Long Eze and a
Helo meet all my requirements.....

Maybe I will be lucky enough to share my hangars with a Q2XX one day -
better finish building them first though!

By the way, I salute your enthusiasm. My comment was not intended as a
slight, we need more of it. It does much to inject the required
positivity, aircraft building can be a solitary pursuit. As for speed?
whatever blows your hair back, I guess....I remain entranced by being
able to fly into my friends back yard at 10 kts, 20 ft above the
ground, now that is cool....

Regards

John


--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"

Jim,
What canard flyin this Saturday at Columbia, CA?

Terry Adams
Stockton