Previous Spar Damage


britmcman99
 

Hello All:

If the plane owned by James Postma that suffered the broken spar happened to
be that plane built by Mr. Follmer, then we might have a suspect cause for a
pre-existing condition.

You can find an interesting report at

_http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1_
(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1)

that states the following:

"NTSB Identification: LAX00LA301 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). 14 CFR Part 91:
General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, August 15, 2000 in CORONA, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 6/25/2003
Aircraft: FOLLMER Q200, registration: N8427
Injuries: 1 Minor.
The amateur-built airplane collided with ground obstructions during a forced
landing on an interstate highway following the in-flight separation of a
portion of one propeller blade. An FAA airworthiness inspector examined the
airplane and interviewed the pilot. The pilot reported that the airplane was in
cruise flight when it suddenly began to shake violently. The pilot believed he
had lost part of the wooden propeller and turned to return to the departure
airport. The shaking through the airframe became intense and the pilot was
unsure of the continued integrity of the airframe. He decided to land on a major
interstate highway beneath the airplane. During the landing rollout, the
airplane was quickly catching up to automobiles on the road ahead and the pilot
intentionally steered the airplane to the right shoulder to avoid a collision
with the vehicles. The right wing contacted a light pole and slued the
airplane nose first into another pole. The second collision with the pole
shattered the propeller into small splinters. The airplane continued down an
embankment and collided with additional brush. The FAA inspector searched the area
and was able to identify one propeller blade tip in the propeller fragments
scattered over the site. The second tip could not be located. According to the
pilot, the aircraft owner built the airplane prior to 1990 and obtained an
initial airworthiness and registration certificate, then placed the airplane
into storage. The airplane did not fly from 1990 until weeks before the
accident. The pilot was in the process of flying the initial 40 operating hours for
an unrestricted experimental airworthiness certificate and had flown the
airplane about 11 hours.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of
this accident as follows:
The failure and separation of one wooden propeller blade for undetermined
reasons. "

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM

(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&ntsbno=LAX00LA301&akey=1)


britmcman99
 

James Postma:

Did you happen to mention anything about this aircraft having a previous
forced landing on August, 15, 2000? Was the incident you wrote about the same
aircraft N8427?

Jim and John have been at each other's throats for a while now. Do you
suppose that the August 2000 incident might have in some way been connected with
your more recent broken spar incident?

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM


britmcman99
 

Hello Dave:

In a message dated 5/26/2005 9:41:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
davedq2@... writes:

James reported his broken spar to inform the group to be on the alert for
similar weaknesses. I hope that the responses to his report didn't discourage
builders or owners of Qs from the enjoyment of flying a great, fun airplane.


I applaud James Postma for having spoken up about his broken spar. However,
I am a little perplexed at the fact that he mentioned nothing of the August
2000 accident. I am curious if he was aware of it. If he did know about it,
he should have mentioned it in his original report to this group.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM


britmcman99
 

Hello Jim:

I just want everyone to know that if you (or the previous owner) drive your
airplane down a busy freeway and happen to hit a light pole and then years
later happen to notice the right spar cracking off, it would be nice to make
mention of the prior event when alerting the public of the more recent event.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM


Dave Dugas
 

Phil,
Your letter sheds new light on this spar subject. I've been reading these posts about the possibility of having a defective spar, and wondering what to do. I always check the spar carefully during my annual inspection and a couple of times during the year. I've never seen any sign of a problem. I have hundreds of landings, including 2 ground loops and a few landings that could have been ground loops. My airport has huge cracks in the taxiways, and during the first 150 hours, the runway had bigger cracks than the taxiways. I broke 2 tailsprings during this time. Since then the runways have been repaved. My Q2 has been flying since 2000, but has been on the gear since about 1985. I have confidence that the LS1 canard on my Q2 is airworthy, but from this point forward I will inspect it with a more critical eye.
The incident with Mr. Follmer could very well be a significant factor in the failure of James Postma's Q2. By other LS1 owners reading this report, it stresses the importance of any degree of damage to a composite structure, and the importance of damage history to non-builders of the Qs they have purchased.
James reported his broken spar to inform the group to be on the alert for similar weaknesses. I hope that the responses to his report didn't discourage builders or owners of Qs from the enjoyment of flying a great, fun airplane.
Sincerely, Dave Dugas

britmcman@... wrote:
Hello All:

If the plane owned by James Postma that suffered the broken spar happened to
be that plane built by Mr. Follmer, then we might have a suspect cause for a
pre-existing condition.

You can find an interesting report at

_http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1_
(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1)

that states the following:

"NTSB Identification: LAX00LA301 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). 14 CFR Part 91:
General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, August 15, 2000 in CORONA, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 6/25/2003
Aircraft: FOLLMER Q200, registration: N8427
Injuries: 1 Minor.
The amateur-built airplane collided with ground obstructions during a forced
landing on an interstate highway following the in-flight separation of a
portion of one propeller blade. An FAA airworthiness inspector examined the
airplane and interviewed the pilot. The pilot reported that the airplane was in
cruise flight when it suddenly began to shake violently. The pilot believed he
had lost part of the wooden propeller and turned to return to the departure
airport. The shaking through the airframe became intense and the pilot was
unsure of the continued integrity of the airframe. He decided to land on a major
interstate highway beneath the airplane. During the landing rollout, the
airplane was quickly catching up to automobiles on the road ahead and the pilot
intentionally steered the airplane to the right shoulder to avoid a collision
with the vehicles. The right wing contacted a light pole and slued the
airplane nose first into another pole. The second collision with the pole
shattered the propeller into small splinters. The airplane continued down an
embankment and collided with additional brush. The FAA inspector searched the area
and was able to identify one propeller blade tip in the propeller fragments
scattered over the site. The second tip could not be located. According to the
pilot, the aircraft owner built the airplane prior to 1990 and obtained an
initial airworthiness and registration certificate, then placed the airplane
into storage. The airplane did not fly from 1990 until weeks before the
accident. The pilot was in the process of flying the initial 40 operating hours for
an unrestricted experimental airworthiness certificate and had flown the
airplane about 11 hours.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of
this accident as follows:
The failure and separation of one wooden propeller blade for undetermined
reasons. "

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM

(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&ntsbno=LAX00LA301&akey=1)






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Jim Patillo
 

Relax Phil, John and I are still good friends! We're were just having
a lively debate at each others expense both on and offline. We both
want to help solve the puzzle and will. The truth shall set you free
my friend!

I knew with a little continued jabbing some one (not unlike yourself)
would put two and two together. Now we can move on with the discovery
phase. James and I talked about this a few weeks back. In fact I
believe Jeff Rutledge knew of this problem when he looked at that
plane before he bought Al Kittlesons.

Best regards,

Jim Patillo


--- In Q-LIST@..., britmcman@a... wrote:
James Postma:

Did you happen to mention anything about this aircraft having a
previous
forced landing on August, 15, 2000? Was the incident you wrote
about the same
aircraft N8427?

Jim and John have been at each other's throats for a while now.
Do you
suppose that the August 2000 incident might have in some way been
connected with
your more recent broken spar incident?

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM



David Barker <q2driver@...>
 

Before everyone writes off this incident as a previously crashed Q, I
believe It was a different aircraft than what James referred to. Frank built
several aircraft. How about it James, set the record straight...

DVB

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
britmcman@...
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:18 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Previous Spar Damage

Hello Jim:

I just want everyone to know that if you (or the previous owner) drive your

airplane down a busy freeway and happen to hit a light pole and then years
later happen to notice the right spar cracking off, it would be nice to make

mention of the prior event when alerting the public of the more recent
event.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








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Jim Patillo
 

FYI, think its the same one?

I am sad to say that Frank Follmer passed on about Sept 26 after a
battle with
cancer.

I would like to make a brief mention of his life and his contribution
to the Q
community. Very few builders knew of Frank because he was not a
computer guy,
not a pilot, did not attend any flyins, and his airplanes never left
Chino.

The reason I know of him is that he had a hanger behind mine at Chino
for 5
years. He was my mentor and kept me in the game.

Frank was from St. Louis. I don't think he had any formal engineering
training.
At first he did an auto body and paint shop. Then he went into
designing and
building box factories. His father was in that business.

When he retired, he moved to Villa Park, California and discovered
the Q2 and
decided to build one. He took some pilot lessons, but his eyesight
could not
pass the medical, and he gave that up.

He was a master builder. He met with Gene Sheehan and recommended
changes and
improvements to the airplane. This is when QAC and Revmaster were at
Chino. At
one time the Q operation took up almost all the commercial space at
Chino.

Frank was very meticulous about his work. His innovations include:
the full height rudder - three were built
the sliding forward canopy
the raised canopy - 2 inches at the rear
bullet nosed and pressure recovery wheel pants
integral position lights in the wing tips (left, right, rear and
strobes in one
streamlined unit)

Frank built two airplanes, a Q2 and a Q200. I now own them both, the
Q200 with
Damian. The Q200 was crashed due to a separated prop and we are
rebuilding it.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.


"David Barker" wrote:
Before everyone writes off this incident as a previously crashed Q,
I believe It was a different aircraft than what James referred to.
Frank built several aircraft. How about it James, set the record
straight...

DVB

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On
Behalf Of
britmcman@a...
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:18 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Previous Spar Damage

Hello Jim:

I just want everyone to know that if you (or the previous owner)
drive your

airplane down a busy freeway and happen to hit a light pole and
then years
later happen to notice the right spar cracking off, it would be
nice to make

mention of the prior event when alerting the public of the more
recent
event.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM


damiantwinsport@...
 

Phil, N8427 was not the plane James was landing at the time of accident/ spar failure.

Regards,
Damian Gregory N8427 Q200

-----Original Message-----
From: britmcman@...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thu, 26 May 2005 23:42:58 EDT
Subject: [Q-LIST] Previous Spar Damage


Hello All:

If the plane owned by James Postma that suffered the broken spar happened to
be that plane built by Mr. Follmer, then we might have a suspect cause for a
pre-existing condition.

You can find an interesting report at

_http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1_
(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1)

that states the following:

"NTSB Identification: LAX00LA301 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). 14 CFR Part 91:
General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, August 15, 2000 in CORONA, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 6/25/2003
Aircraft: FOLLMER Q200, registration: N8427
Injuries: 1 Minor.
The amateur-built airplane collided with ground obstructions during a forced
landing on an interstate highway following the in-flight separation of a
portion of one propeller blade. An FAA airworthiness inspector examined the
airplane and interviewed the pilot. The pilot reported that the airplane was in

cruise flight when it suddenly began to shake violently. The pilot believed he
had lost part of the wooden propeller and turned to return to the departure
airport. The shaking through the airframe became intense and the pilot was
unsure of the continued integrity of the airframe. He decided to land on a
major
interstate highway beneath the airplane. During the landing rollout, the
airplane was quickly catching up to automobiles on the road ahead and the pilot

intentionally steered the airplane to the right shoulder to avoid a collision
with the vehicles. The right wing contacted a light pole and slued the
airplane nose first into another pole. The second collision with the pole
shattered the propeller into small splinters. The airplane continued down an
embankment and collided with additional brush. The FAA inspector searched the
area
and was able to identify one propeller blade tip in the propeller fragments
scattered over the site. The second tip could not be located. According to the
pilot, the aircraft owner built the airplane prior to 1990 and obtained an
initial airworthiness and registration certificate, then placed the airplane
into storage. The airplane did not fly from 1990 until weeks before the
accident. The pilot was in the process of flying the initial 40 operating hours
for
an unrestricted experimental airworthiness certificate and had flown the
airplane about 11 hours.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of
this accident as follows:
The failure and separation of one wooden propeller blade for undetermined
reasons. "

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM

(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&ntsbno=LAX00LA301&akey=1)








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


Jim Patillo
 

Damian,

What is the N number of the plane you are now attempting to repair
the spar on? Was it ever reregistered as a different N number? If so,
maybe we can research that number for prior events.

I understood from James Postmas' e-mail Frank Folmer only built two
Q's; a Q2 and a Q200. James took the Q2 north several months ago. I
was under the impression from the NTSB report that N8427 had the bird
strike and landing accident. If not what happened to N8427? James
said he owned the only two planes Frank built. This is really
important in determining what happened. Boy am I confused now?

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., damiantwinsport@a... wrote:
Phil, N8427 was not the plane James was landing at the time of
accident/ spar failure.

Regards,
Damian Gregory N8427 Q200


-----Original Message-----
From: britmcman@a...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thu, 26 May 2005 23:42:58 EDT
Subject: [Q-LIST] Previous Spar Damage


Hello All:

If the plane owned by James Postma that suffered the broken spar
happened to
be that plane built by Mr. Follmer, then we might have a suspect
cause for a
pre-existing condition.

You can find an interesting report at

_http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1_
(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1)

that states the following:

"NTSB Identification: LAX00LA301 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). 14
CFR Part 91:
General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, August 15, 2000 in CORONA, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 6/25/2003
Aircraft: FOLLMER Q200, registration: N8427
Injuries: 1 Minor.
The amateur-built airplane collided with ground obstructions during
a forced
landing on an interstate highway following the in-flight separation
of a
portion of one propeller blade. An FAA airworthiness inspector
examined the
airplane and interviewed the pilot. The pilot reported that the
airplane was in

cruise flight when it suddenly began to shake violently. The pilot
believed he
had lost part of the wooden propeller and turned to return to the
departure
airport. The shaking through the airframe became intense and the
pilot was
unsure of the continued integrity of the airframe. He decided to
land on a
major
interstate highway beneath the airplane. During the landing
rollout, the
airplane was quickly catching up to automobiles on the road ahead
and the pilot

intentionally steered the airplane to the right shoulder to avoid
a collision
with the vehicles. The right wing contacted a light pole and slued
the
airplane nose first into another pole. The second collision with
the pole
shattered the propeller into small splinters. The airplane
continued down an
embankment and collided with additional brush. The FAA inspector
searched the
area
and was able to identify one propeller blade tip in the propeller
fragments
scattered over the site. The second tip could not be located.
According to the
pilot, the aircraft owner built the airplane prior to 1990 and
obtained an
initial airworthiness and registration certificate, then placed
the airplane
into storage. The airplane did not fly from 1990 until weeks
before the
accident. The pilot was in the process of flying the initial 40
operating hours
for
an unrestricted experimental airworthiness certificate and had
flown the
airplane about 11 hours.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of
this accident as follows:
The failure and separation of one wooden propeller blade for
undetermined
reasons. "

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM

(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?
ev_id=20001212X21774&ntsbno=LAX00LA301&akey=1)








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links







Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...>
 

Hi Jim,

I just spoke to James a few days ago. James and Damian can shed light on this, but James told me he owns 3 Q's consisting of two Q2's and one Q200 co-owned with Damian. The Q2 you mentioned that he flew north last November is the one I looked at for a potential buyer and it's tail number is Q2 Revmaster N145EX, GU canard. The broken spar Q2 has a different N-number which I don't know and has the LS1 canard. The Q200 that is being rebuilt by Damian and James is Q200 N8427. This is not the broken spar bird, but I believe is the one that Frank had the Freeway incident with. Hope that this is clear as mud now :)

Regards
Rene
Q2 C-FBWV

PS, I heard rumor that you might be attending Arlington this year. Look froward to seeing you there if true.

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Damian,

What is the N number of the plane you are now attempting to repair
the spar on? Was it ever reregistered as a different N number? If so,
maybe we can research that number for prior events.

I understood from James Postmas' e-mail Frank Folmer only built two
Q's; a Q2 and a Q200. James took the Q2 north several months ago. I
was under the impression from the NTSB report that N8427 had the bird
strike and landing accident. If not what happened to N8427? James
said he owned the only two planes Frank built. This is really
important in determining what happened. Boy am I confused now?

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., damiantwinsport@a... wrote:
Phil, N8427 was not the plane James was landing at the time of
accident/ spar failure.

Regards,
Damian Gregory N8427 Q200


-----Original Message-----
From: britmcman@a...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thu, 26 May 2005 23:42:58 EDT
Subject: [Q-LIST] Previous Spar Damage


Hello All:

If the plane owned by James Postma that suffered the broken spar
happened to
be that plane built by Mr. Follmer, then we might have a suspect
cause for a
pre-existing condition.

You can find an interesting report at

_http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1_
(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1)

that states the following:

"NTSB Identification: LAX00LA301 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). 14
CFR Part 91:
General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, August 15, 2000 in CORONA, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 6/25/2003
Aircraft: FOLLMER Q200, registration: N8427
Injuries: 1 Minor.
The amateur-built airplane collided with ground obstructions during
a forced
landing on an interstate highway following the in-flight separation
of a
portion of one propeller blade. An FAA airworthiness inspector
examined the
airplane and interviewed the pilot. The pilot reported that the
airplane was in

cruise flight when it suddenly began to shake violently. The pilot
believed he
had lost part of the wooden propeller and turned to return to the
departure
airport. The shaking through the airframe became intense and the
pilot was
unsure of the continued integrity of the airframe. He decided to
land on a
major
interstate highway beneath the airplane. During the landing
rollout, the
airplane was quickly catching up to automobiles on the road ahead
and the pilot

intentionally steered the airplane to the right shoulder to avoid
a collision
with the vehicles. The right wing contacted a light pole and slued
the
airplane nose first into another pole. The second collision with
the pole
shattered the propeller into small splinters. The airplane
continued down an
embankment and collided with additional brush. The FAA inspector
searched the
area
and was able to identify one propeller blade tip in the propeller
fragments
scattered over the site. The second tip could not be located.
According to the
pilot, the aircraft owner built the airplane prior to 1990 and
obtained an
initial airworthiness and registration certificate, then placed
the airplane
into storage. The airplane did not fly from 1990 until weeks
before the
accident. The pilot was in the process of flying the initial 40
operating hours
for
an unrestricted experimental airworthiness certificate and had
flown the
airplane about 11 hours.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of
this accident as follows:
The failure and separation of one wooden propeller blade for
undetermined
reasons. "

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM

(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?
ev_id=20001212X21774&ntsbno=LAX00LA301&akey=1)








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links









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damiantwinsport@...
 

Jim , James took his Q2 revmaster up north a non Fullmer plane with a Gu canard ( by the way that one has problems as well ) Then he bought Fullmer's Q2 w/ an LS1 but a rev/ volks engine the N # I cannot remember.Then James and I went to Arizona and got N8427 Q200 that was in the process of being repaired from the bird strike, forced landing and subsequent collision with a utility pole.( which sheared off canard on left side) That is the one I am working on.
Then James broke the canard on the Q2 LS1 coming back to Chino The N# I still can't recall.

Regards,
Damian Gregory N8427 Q200

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Fri, 27 May 2005 18:22:24 -0000
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Previous Spar Damage



Damian,

What is the N number of the plane you are now attempting to repair
the spar on? Was it ever reregistered as a different N number? If so,
maybe we can research that number for prior events.

I understood from James Postmas' e-mail Frank Folmer only built two
Q's; a Q2 and a Q200. James took the Q2 north several months ago. I
was under the impression from the NTSB report that N8427 had the bird
strike and landing accident. If not what happened to N8427? James
said he owned the only two planes Frank built. This is really
important in determining what happened. Boy am I confused now?

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., damiantwinsport@a... wrote:
Phil, N8427 was not the plane James was landing at the time of
accident/ spar failure.

Regards,
Damian Gregory N8427 Q200


-----Original Message-----
From: britmcman@a...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thu, 26 May 2005 23:42:58 EDT
Subject: [Q-LIST] Previous Spar Damage


Hello All:

If the plane owned by James Postma that suffered the broken spar
happened to
be that plane built by Mr. Follmer, then we might have a suspect
cause for a
pre-existing condition.

You can find an interesting report at

_http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1_
(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1)

that states the following:

"NTSB Identification: LAX00LA301 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). 14
CFR Part 91:
General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, August 15, 2000 in CORONA, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 6/25/2003
Aircraft: FOLLMER Q200, registration: N8427
Injuries: 1 Minor.
The amateur-built airplane collided with ground obstructions during
a forced
landing on an interstate highway following the in-flight separation
of a
portion of one propeller blade. An FAA airworthiness inspector
examined the
airplane and interviewed the pilot. The pilot reported that the
airplane was in

cruise flight when it suddenly began to shake violently. The pilot
believed he
had lost part of the wooden propeller and turned to return to the
departure
airport. The shaking through the airframe became intense and the
pilot was
unsure of the continued integrity of the airframe. He decided to
land on a
major
interstate highway beneath the airplane. During the landing
rollout, the
airplane was quickly catching up to automobiles on the road ahead
and the pilot

intentionally steered the airplane to the right shoulder to avoid
a collision
with the vehicles. The right wing contacted a light pole and slued
the
airplane nose first into another pole. The second collision with
the pole
shattered the propeller into small splinters. The airplane
continued down an
embankment and collided with additional brush. The FAA inspector
searched the
area
and was able to identify one propeller blade tip in the propeller
fragments
scattered over the site. The second tip could not be located.
According to the
pilot, the aircraft owner built the airplane prior to 1990 and
obtained an
initial airworthiness and registration certificate, then placed
the airplane
into storage. The airplane did not fly from 1990 until weeks
before the
accident. The pilot was in the process of flying the initial 40
operating hours
for
an unrestricted experimental airworthiness certificate and had
flown the
airplane about 11 hours.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of
this accident as follows:
The failure and separation of one wooden propeller blade for
undetermined
reasons. "

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM

(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?
ev_id=20001212X21774&ntsbno=LAX00LA301&akey=1)








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James Postma <james@...>
 

This airplane is N8427 Q200 and is not the airplane I crashed on April 21,
2005.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q2 Revmaster with LS-1
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: <britmcman@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:42 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Previous Spar Damage


Hello All:

If the plane owned by James Postma that suffered the broken spar happened
to
be that plane built by Mr. Follmer, then we might have a suspect cause for
a
pre-existing condition.

You can find an interesting report at

_http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1_
(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1)

that states the following:

"NTSB Identification: LAX00LA301 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). 14 CFR Part
91:
General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, August 15, 2000 in CORONA, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 6/25/2003
Aircraft: FOLLMER Q200, registration: N8427
Injuries: 1 Minor.
The amateur-built airplane collided with ground obstructions during a
forced
landing on an interstate highway following the in-flight separation of a
portion of one propeller blade. An FAA airworthiness inspector examined
the
airplane and interviewed the pilot. The pilot reported that the airplane
was in
cruise flight when it suddenly began to shake violently. The pilot
believed he
had lost part of the wooden propeller and turned to return to the
departure
airport. The shaking through the airframe became intense and the pilot
was
unsure of the continued integrity of the airframe. He decided to land on
a major
interstate highway beneath the airplane. During the landing rollout, the
airplane was quickly catching up to automobiles on the road ahead and the
pilot
intentionally steered the airplane to the right shoulder to avoid a
collision
with the vehicles. The right wing contacted a light pole and slued the
airplane nose first into another pole. The second collision with the pole
shattered the propeller into small splinters. The airplane continued down
an
embankment and collided with additional brush. The FAA inspector searched
the area
and was able to identify one propeller blade tip in the propeller
fragments
scattered over the site. The second tip could not be located. According
to the
pilot, the aircraft owner built the airplane prior to 1990 and obtained
an
initial airworthiness and registration certificate, then placed the
airplane
into storage. The airplane did not fly from 1990 until weeks before the
accident. The pilot was in the process of flying the initial 40 operating
hours for
an unrestricted experimental airworthiness certificate and had flown the
airplane about 11 hours.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s)
of
this accident as follows:
The failure and separation of one wooden propeller blade for undetermined
reasons. "

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM

(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&ntsbno=LAX00LA301&
akey=1)







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James Postma <james@...>
 

The plane that Jeff was interested in is N145EX a GU canard.

Again to summarize:
Q2 with GU canard
Q2 with LS-1 canard has the 2005 incident and may have had one in 1991.
Q200 with LS-1 canard has the 2000 incident.

Sorry for the confusion.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q2 Revmaster with LS-1
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Patillo" <logistics_engineering@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:00 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Previous Spar Damage




Relax Phil, John and I are still good friends! We're were just having
a lively debate at each others expense both on and offline. We both
want to help solve the puzzle and will. The truth shall set you free
my friend!

I knew with a little continued jabbing some one (not unlike yourself)
would put two and two together. Now we can move on with the discovery
phase. James and I talked about this a few weeks back. In fact I
believe Jeff Rutledge knew of this problem when he looked at that
plane before he bought Al Kittlesons.

Best regards,

Jim Patillo


--- In Q-LIST@..., britmcman@a... wrote:
James Postma:

Did you happen to mention anything about this aircraft having a
previous
forced landing on August, 15, 2000? Was the incident you wrote
about the same
aircraft N8427?

Jim and John have been at each other's throats for a while now.
Do you
suppose that the August 2000 incident might have in some way been
connected with
your more recent broken spar incident?

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM






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James Postma <james@...>
 

That was the Q200 that landed on I-15 and the canard was completely
destroyed.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q2 Revmaster with LS-1
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: <britmcman@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Previous Spar Damage


Hello Jim:

I just want everyone to know that if you (or the previous owner) drive
your
airplane down a busy freeway and happen to hit a light pole and then years
later happen to notice the right spar cracking off, it would be nice to
make
mention of the prior event when alerting the public of the more recent
event.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM








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http://www.quickiebuilders.org


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James Postma <james@...>
 

Done.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q2 Revmaster with LS-1
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Barker" <q2driver@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:38 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Previous Spar Damage


Before everyone writes off this incident as a previously crashed Q, I
believe It was a different aircraft than what James referred to. Frank
built
several aircraft. How about it James, set the record straight...

DVB

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
britmcman@...
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:18 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Previous Spar Damage

Hello Jim:

I just want everyone to know that if you (or the previous owner) drive
your

airplane down a busy freeway and happen to hit a light pole and then years
later happen to notice the right spar cracking off, it would be nice to
make

mention of the prior event when alerting the public of the more recent
event.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date: 5/25/2005





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James Postma <james@...>
 

Three airplanes and sorry for the confusion.

Q2 with GU is now at Tacoma.
Q2 with LS-1 is still at Chino after the April, 2005 incident.
Q200 is at Compton for a rebuild and had the incident in 2000. It is N8427
and always has been.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q2 Revmaster with LS-1
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Patillo" <logistics_engineering@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:22 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Previous Spar Damage



Damian,

What is the N number of the plane you are now attempting to repair
the spar on? Was it ever reregistered as a different N number? If so,
maybe we can research that number for prior events.

I understood from James Postmas' e-mail Frank Folmer only built two
Q's; a Q2 and a Q200. James took the Q2 north several months ago. I
was under the impression from the NTSB report that N8427 had the bird
strike and landing accident. If not what happened to N8427? James
said he owned the only two planes Frank built. This is really
important in determining what happened. Boy am I confused now?

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., damiantwinsport@a... wrote:
Phil, N8427 was not the plane James was landing at the time of
accident/ spar failure.

Regards,
Damian Gregory N8427 Q200


-----Original Message-----
From: britmcman@a...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thu, 26 May 2005 23:42:58 EDT
Subject: [Q-LIST] Previous Spar Damage


Hello All:

If the plane owned by James Postma that suffered the broken spar
happened to
be that plane built by Mr. Follmer, then we might have a suspect
cause for a
pre-existing condition.

You can find an interesting report at

_http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1_
(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1)

that states the following:

"NTSB Identification: LAX00LA301 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). 14
CFR Part 91:
General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, August 15, 2000 in CORONA, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 6/25/2003
Aircraft: FOLLMER Q200, registration: N8427
Injuries: 1 Minor.
The amateur-built airplane collided with ground obstructions during
a forced
landing on an interstate highway following the in-flight separation
of a
portion of one propeller blade. An FAA airworthiness inspector
examined the
airplane and interviewed the pilot. The pilot reported that the
airplane was in

cruise flight when it suddenly began to shake violently. The pilot
believed he
had lost part of the wooden propeller and turned to return to the
departure
airport. The shaking through the airframe became intense and the
pilot was
unsure of the continued integrity of the airframe. He decided to
land on a
major
interstate highway beneath the airplane. During the landing
rollout, the
airplane was quickly catching up to automobiles on the road ahead
and the pilot

intentionally steered the airplane to the right shoulder to avoid
a collision
with the vehicles. The right wing contacted a light pole and slued
the
airplane nose first into another pole. The second collision with
the pole
shattered the propeller into small splinters. The airplane
continued down an
embankment and collided with additional brush. The FAA inspector
searched the
area
and was able to identify one propeller blade tip in the propeller
fragments
scattered over the site. The second tip could not be located.
According to the
pilot, the aircraft owner built the airplane prior to 1990 and
obtained an
initial airworthiness and registration certificate, then placed
the airplane
into storage. The airplane did not fly from 1990 until weeks
before the
accident. The pilot was in the process of flying the initial 40
operating hours
for
an unrestricted experimental airworthiness certificate and had
flown the
airplane about 11 hours.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of
this accident as follows:
The failure and separation of one wooden propeller blade for
undetermined
reasons. "

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM

(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?
ev_id=20001212X21774&ntsbno=LAX00LA301&akey=1)








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links










Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








James Postma <james@...>
 

Right on and thanks Rene.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q2 Revmaster with LS-1
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rene Robertson" <q2robertson@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Previous Spar Damage


Hi Jim,

I just spoke to James a few days ago. James and Damian can shed light on
this, but James told me he owns 3 Q's consisting of two Q2's and one Q200
co-owned with Damian. The Q2 you mentioned that he flew north last November
is the one I looked at for a potential buyer and it's tail number is Q2
Revmaster N145EX, GU canard. The broken spar Q2 has a different N-number
which I don't know and has the LS1 canard. The Q200 that is being rebuilt
by Damian and James is Q200 N8427. This is not the broken spar bird, but I
believe is the one that Frank had the Freeway incident with. Hope that this
is clear as mud now :)

Regards
Rene
Q2 C-FBWV

PS, I heard rumor that you might be attending Arlington this year. Look
froward to seeing you there if true.

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Damian,

What is the N number of the plane you are now attempting to repair
the spar on? Was it ever reregistered as a different N number? If so,
maybe we can research that number for prior events.

I understood from James Postmas' e-mail Frank Folmer only built two
Q's; a Q2 and a Q200. James took the Q2 north several months ago. I
was under the impression from the NTSB report that N8427 had the bird
strike and landing accident. If not what happened to N8427? James
said he owned the only two planes Frank built. This is really
important in determining what happened. Boy am I confused now?

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., damiantwinsport@a... wrote:
Phil, N8427 was not the plane James was landing at the time of
accident/ spar failure.

Regards,
Damian Gregory N8427 Q200


-----Original Message-----
From: britmcman@a...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thu, 26 May 2005 23:42:58 EDT
Subject: [Q-LIST] Previous Spar Damage


Hello All:

If the plane owned by James Postma that suffered the broken spar
happened to
be that plane built by Mr. Follmer, then we might have a suspect
cause for a
pre-existing condition.

You can find an interesting report at

_http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1_
(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21774&key=1)

that states the following:

"NTSB Identification: LAX00LA301 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). 14
CFR Part 91:
General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, August 15, 2000 in CORONA, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 6/25/2003
Aircraft: FOLLMER Q200, registration: N8427
Injuries: 1 Minor.
The amateur-built airplane collided with ground obstructions during
a forced
landing on an interstate highway following the in-flight separation
of a
portion of one propeller blade. An FAA airworthiness inspector
examined the
airplane and interviewed the pilot. The pilot reported that the
airplane was in

cruise flight when it suddenly began to shake violently. The pilot
believed he
had lost part of the wooden propeller and turned to return to the
departure
airport. The shaking through the airframe became intense and the
pilot was
unsure of the continued integrity of the airframe. He decided to
land on a
major
interstate highway beneath the airplane. During the landing
rollout, the
airplane was quickly catching up to automobiles on the road ahead
and the pilot

intentionally steered the airplane to the right shoulder to avoid
a collision
with the vehicles. The right wing contacted a light pole and slued
the
airplane nose first into another pole. The second collision with
the pole
shattered the propeller into small splinters. The airplane
continued down an
embankment and collided with additional brush. The FAA inspector
searched the
area
and was able to identify one propeller blade tip in the propeller
fragments
scattered over the site. The second tip could not be located.
According to the
pilot, the aircraft owner built the airplane prior to 1990 and
obtained an
initial airworthiness and registration certificate, then placed
the airplane
into storage. The airplane did not fly from 1990 until weeks
before the
accident. The pilot was in the process of flying the initial 40
operating hours
for
an unrestricted experimental airworthiness certificate and had
flown the
airplane about 11 hours.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of
this accident as follows:
The failure and separation of one wooden propeller blade for
undetermined
reasons. "

Respectfully,

Phil Lankford
N870BM

(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?
ev_id=20001212X21774&ntsbno=LAX00LA301&akey=1)








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