Clocking the prop


Neil Jepsen <njepsen@...>
 

I understand that there is a "best position" which gives a better balance between the prop and the crankshaft, but I've never seen details. Anyone??
neil

Jon Finley wrote:

Not what you're looking for I'm sure Jim. However; I index my prop so I
DO NOT drag the tip on the ground after I shut down, walk around to the
tail, and lift it up to drag it into the hangar. :-)

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:26 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop



General question for the group;

Does anyone know if there are any benefits in clocking a prop. Is
there any position better than another? I do not hand prop so I'm open
to suggestion.

P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here on
the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up!
Regards and good speeds,

Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs.









Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org




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MartinErni@...
 

In a message dated 6/7/2005 7:26:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:

P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good
work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here on
the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up!

Regards and good speeds,

Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs


And don't forget about us trigear guys. It would be really embarrassing if
one of them turned out to be faster :-)

Earnest


Jim Patillo
 

General question for the group;

Does anyone know if there are any benefits in clocking a prop. Is
there any position better than another? I do not hand prop so I'm open
to suggestion.

P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good
work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here on
the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up!

Regards and good speeds,

Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs.


Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

The theory is to have the prop go by the intake just as the intake valves
are opening - thereby pushing a little more air into the cylinders. I have
no idea if it is true or not and which position would be correct for an
O-200. Maybe you can find something from the Formula One guys. If you do,
please post it here.

I hear three bladed props are very smooth, but a little inefficient. There
is an article in the latest Sport Aviation Association magazine, "To Fly",
that came in the mail today. They have old photos of a one-bladed prop.
The theory here is to keep the blade in clean air. I'll have to give Craig
Catto a call.

Jim, why don't you enter this year's AirVenture Cup race?

Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:26 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop




General question for the group;

Does anyone know if there are any benefits in clocking a prop. Is
there any position better than another? I do not hand prop so I'm open
to suggestion.

P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good
work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here on
the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up!

Regards and good speeds,

Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs.




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
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Jon Finley <jon@...>
 

Not what you're looking for I'm sure Jim. However; I index my prop so I
DO NOT drag the tip on the ground after I shut down, walk around to the
tail, and lift it up to drag it into the hangar. :-)

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:26 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop



General question for the group;

Does anyone know if there are any benefits in clocking a prop. Is
there any position better than another? I do not hand prop so I'm open
to suggestion.

P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good
work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here on
the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up!

Regards and good speeds,

Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs.


Jon Finley <jon@...>
 

I ain't no expert on this here aero stuff (but that doesn't seem to be
stopping me from opening my mouth).

There have been a couple of very good articles in recent issues of
Contact! (good job Pat) on this. I'm talking about the Paul Lipps
(Ellipse Propellors) articles. I agree with the article in that the
blades of a propellor traveling thru the air (at typical cruise speeds)
are all seeing a different "plane" or chunk of air. Obviously not
applicable to a plane sitting static on the ground (but that mode really
doesn't matter). Think of how a screw cuts thru wood. So, it is my
suspicion that this is another one of the many "old wives tale" that
exists in aviation.

FYI, I've heard the same thing on the prop indexing. Seems like Charlie
Harris and Bob Malechek were both playing with this some years ago.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of Sam Hoskins
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:49 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop


The theory is to have the prop go by the intake just as the intake
valves
are opening - thereby pushing a little more air into the cylinders. I
have
no idea if it is true or not and which position would be correct for an
O-200. Maybe you can find something from the Formula One guys. If you
do,
please post it here.

I hear three bladed props are very smooth, but a little inefficient.
There
is an article in the latest Sport Aviation Association magazine, "To
Fly",
that came in the mail today. They have old photos of a one-bladed prop.
The theory here is to keep the blade in clean air. I'll have to give
Craig
Catto a call.

Jim, why don't you enter this year's AirVenture Cup race?

Sam


Archer Family <blues@...>
 

My humble opinion,

I too have questioned exactly why the manufacturer would specify clocking
the prop in a particular location. I would have to look around a bit, but
I remember reading an article concerning vibration forces transmitted to the
prop from the engine. A four cylinder horizontally opposed engine was
specified as having an inherent power pulse vibration that tended to cause
the crank to travel in horizontal or side to side motion around the area of
rotation of top center. Because of this, the prop was clocked approximately
horizontal while the pistons are at TC or BC, four cylinders mind you, with
two bladed props. If the prop was in the vertical while a side load
existed, it would place more stress on the prop. Consider taking a flimsy
fishing pole for instance in your hand a holding the rod vertical and
shaking it side to side and holding it horizontal and shaking it side to
side. It just happens that this is also a good position for hand propping
as well. Add a couple of cylinders or another blade to the prop and things
get a little different.

Another factor often mentioned is the placement of the engine air inlet in
relation to the prop. It seems to me there is an optimum location for some
engines that may allow an ever slight increase in air pressure at the inlet
at the point when the intake valve is opening. This is something I know of
no manufacturer taking into consideration, just the hi speed gurus.

It's usually good advice to follow the manufacturer's instructions for
clocking the prop if it applies. I hate to say the engineers ways are above
our ways or anything like that, but I know from experience that when you
re-engineer something, you have to be very careful.

I'll try to find that information source on the prop clocking.

Bill Archer
A&P

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:26 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop



General question for the group;

Does anyone know if there are any benefits in clocking a prop. Is
there any position better than another? I do not hand prop so I'm open
to suggestion.

P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good
work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here on
the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up!

Regards and good speeds,

Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs.





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


Jim Patillo
 

Sam,

I really would like to race to AirVenture. Being so close its easy
for you but after a trip across America, doing a 500 mile race and
returning to California has little comfort for me. If I screw up an
engine in the process, it would take months to get it back and fixed.
I'm much more comfortable meeting at one of our gatherings for a
performance run of 100-150 miles.

Good luck in the upcoming AirVenture race. If you don't get any more
competition you could win by default(not a good way). Kick Ass my
friend and keep experimenting for those extra knots!

Regards,
Jim P.

P.S. Thanks everyone for your input on clocking props. I'm playing
around with that concept.

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@m...> wrote:
The theory is to have the prop go by the intake just as the intake
valves
are opening - thereby pushing a little more air into the
cylinders. I have
no idea if it is true or not and which position would be correct
for an
O-200. Maybe you can find something from the Formula One guys. If
you do,
please post it here.

I hear three bladed props are very smooth, but a little
inefficient. There
is an article in the latest Sport Aviation Association
magazine, "To Fly",
that came in the mail today. They have old photos of a one-bladed
prop.
The theory here is to keep the blade in clean air. I'll have to
give Craig
Catto a call.

Jim, why don't you enter this year's AirVenture Cup race?

Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On
Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:26 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop




General question for the group;

Does anyone know if there are any benefits in clocking a prop. Is
there any position better than another? I do not hand prop so I'm
open
to suggestion.

P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good
work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here
on
the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up!

Regards and good speeds,

Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs.




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
<mailto:Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.




Dave <dave@...>
 

David Gall wrote something up some time ago about clocking the prop and
we included it along with drawings in an issue of Q-Talk.

The basic benefit of aligning the prop to a horizontal position when the
pistons are near TDC relates to reducing the vibration induced into the
propeller from the pulse generated by the fuel burn in the cylinders.
David's image at the time was to envision a yardstick being held at the
center point and aligned vertically and moving your hand side to side
horizontally. You will get the stick to start oscillating. If instead
of holding the yardstick vertically, you hold it horizontally and move
your hand horizontally, you get no such oscillation.

Hope that helps. You might be able to find his original comments (more
eloquently stated, no doubt) in the archives.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 N825DR 3.5 hrs

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Patillo [mailto:logistics_engineering@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:26 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop


General question for the group;

Does anyone know if there are any benefits in clocking a prop. Is
there any position better than another? I do not hand prop so I'm open
to suggestion.

P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good
work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here on
the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up!

Regards and good speeds,

Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs.





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


Dave <dave@...>
 

His message was #7001 if you want to read his original description.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 N825DR 3.5 hrs

P.S. Had my third flight this past weekend. The engine ran like a
champ. Seems like the adjustments to the carb I was working to achieve
paid off.
Hope to start pounding out the hours now. DAR

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:30 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop

David Gall wrote something up some time ago about clocking the prop and
we included it along with drawings in an issue of Q-Talk.

The basic benefit of aligning the prop to a horizontal position when the
pistons are near TDC relates to reducing the vibration induced into the
propeller from the pulse generated by the fuel burn in the cylinders.
David's image at the time was to envision a yardstick being held at the
center point and aligned vertically and moving your hand side to side
horizontally. You will get the stick to start oscillating. If instead
of holding the yardstick vertically, you hold it horizontally and move
your hand horizontally, you get no such oscillation.

Hope that helps. You might be able to find his original comments (more
eloquently stated, no doubt) in the archives.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 N825DR 3.5 hrs

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Patillo [mailto:logistics_engineering@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:26 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop


General question for the group;

Does anyone know if there are any benefits in clocking a prop. Is
there any position better than another? I do not hand prop so I'm open
to suggestion.

P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good
work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here on
the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up!

Regards and good speeds,

Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs.





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links










Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

Congrads on your 3rd flight Dave!

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop


His message was #7001 if you want to read his original description.
Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 N825DR 3.5 hrs
P.S. Had my third flight this past weekend. The engine ran like a
champ. Seems like the adjustments to the carb I was working to achieve
paid off.
Hope to start pounding out the hours now. DAR
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:30 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop
David Gall wrote something up some time ago about clocking the prop and
we included it along with drawings in an issue of Q-Talk. The basic benefit of aligning the prop to a horizontal position when the
pistons are near TDC relates to reducing the vibration induced into the
propeller from the pulse generated by the fuel burn in the cylinders.
David's image at the time was to envision a yardstick being held at the
center point and aligned vertically and moving your hand side to side
horizontally. You will get the stick to start oscillating. If instead
of holding the yardstick vertically, you hold it horizontally and move
your hand horizontally, you get no such oscillation. Hope that helps. You might be able to find his original comments (more
eloquently stated, no doubt) in the archives.
Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 N825DR 3.5 hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Patillo [mailto:logistics_engineering@...] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:26 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop
General question for the group;
Does anyone know if there are any benefits in clocking a prop. Is there any position better than another? I do not hand prop so I'm open to suggestion. P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here on the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up! Regards and good speeds,
Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs. Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org
Yahoo! Groups Links
Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org
Yahoo! Groups Links
Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org
Yahoo! Groups Links


Jim Patillo
 

Thanks Dave Richardson and especially David Gall for the information
provided. I should have looked before talking as we've covered most
everythnig already in previous discussions.

Having said that, it appears there are two reasons to clock a prop.
(1) smoothness and (2) performance. I'm interested in both. So given
what we've read where is the best place to set a two blade prop on
an 0200 to get both? I do not had prop.

JIm P.
--- In Q-LIST@..., "Dave" <dave@h...> wrote:
His message was #7001 if you want to read his original description.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 N825DR 3.5 hrs

P.S. Had my third flight this past weekend. The engine ran like a
champ. Seems like the adjustments to the carb I was working to
achieve
paid off.
Hope to start pounding out the hours now. DAR


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:30 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop

David Gall wrote something up some time ago about clocking the
prop and
we included it along with drawings in an issue of Q-Talk.

The basic benefit of aligning the prop to a horizontal position
when the
pistons are near TDC relates to reducing the vibration induced
into the
propeller from the pulse generated by the fuel burn in the
cylinders.
David's image at the time was to envision a yardstick being held
at the
center point and aligned vertically and moving your hand side to
side
horizontally. You will get the stick to start oscillating. If
instead
of holding the yardstick vertically, you hold it horizontally and
move
your hand horizontally, you get no such oscillation.

Hope that helps. You might be able to find his original comments
(more
eloquently stated, no doubt) in the archives.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 N825DR 3.5 hrs

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Patillo [mailto:logistics_engineering@m...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:26 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop


General question for the group;

Does anyone know if there are any benefits in clocking a prop. Is
there any position better than another? I do not hand prop so I'm
open
to suggestion.

P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good
work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here
on
the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up!

Regards and good speeds,

Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs.





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links










Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

Jim, check out: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm

Post your question on the Q-200 engine group and address it to Harry. He
and other non-quickie guys monitor it, but they do know Continentals.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-200_Engine_Group/

Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 2:15 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Clocking the prop




Thanks Dave Richardson and especially David Gall for the information
provided. I should have looked before talking as we've covered most
everythnig already in previous discussions.

Having said that, it appears there are two reasons to clock a prop.
(1) smoothness and (2) performance. I'm interested in both. So given
what we've read where is the best place to set a two blade prop on
an 0200 to get both? I do not had prop.

JIm P.
--- In Q-LIST@..., "Dave" <dave@h...> wrote:
His message was #7001 if you want to read his original description.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 N825DR 3.5 hrs

P.S. Had my third flight this past weekend. The engine ran like a
champ. Seems like the adjustments to the carb I was working to
achieve
paid off.
Hope to start pounding out the hours now. DAR


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:30 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop

David Gall wrote something up some time ago about clocking the
prop and
we included it along with drawings in an issue of Q-Talk.

The basic benefit of aligning the prop to a horizontal position
when the
pistons are near TDC relates to reducing the vibration induced
into the
propeller from the pulse generated by the fuel burn in the
cylinders.
David's image at the time was to envision a yardstick being held
at the
center point and aligned vertically and moving your hand side to
side
horizontally. You will get the stick to start oscillating. If
instead
of holding the yardstick vertically, you hold it horizontally and
move
your hand horizontally, you get no such oscillation.

Hope that helps. You might be able to find his original comments
(more
eloquently stated, no doubt) in the archives.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 N825DR 3.5 hrs

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Patillo [mailto:logistics_engineering@m...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:26 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Clocking the prop


General question for the group;

Does anyone know if there are any benefits in clocking a prop. Is
there any position better than another? I do not hand prop so I'm
open
to suggestion.

P.S. Sam your wheel pants and inlets look great. Keep up the good
work as I may have a little surprise for you in Sullivan. We here
on
the west coast are really slow but trying to catch up!

Regards and good speeds,

Jim P. N46JP Q200 600 hrs.





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links










Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
<mailto:Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.