Propellor pains


Dawie
 

Hi All,

My first two test flights on my EA82 powered Quickie was done on a lovely
wooden prop. It is a Prince look-alike and although it is early days to
comment, it looked like it performed very well. I removed the prop to do
other work, but in the process discovered two cracks in the centre 1" hole
through the hub. The cracks run in the direction of the hole and are abeam
each blade. The are roughly 2/3 of the thickness of the hub in length.

I can already hear most of you shouting that I shouldn't even ask the
question, and just buy a new prop. Inspection of a friends genuine Prince
revealed very similar cracks. We have a fairly dry climate here (especially
in winter), and that is what most people say caused these depressing cracks.

A few questions:

1. Have any of you seen similar cracks?
2. How serious is it really? As the cracks run along the direction of the
fibres, it could be argued that the wood is not weakened significantly, and
also the centrifugal forces would not tend to open the crack more.
3. How do I avoid this in future? Should the inside of the hub be varnished
as well? Someone suggested large volumes of wax in the hole.
4. For the price I would rather consider a Warp Drive. Any opinions? The
manufacturer of my prop is obviously a wooden prop enthusiast, and
guarantees me that the Warp wouldn't perform even nearly as well a my wooden
prop. Any comments?

Regards,

Dawie.


Robert Bounds
 

4. For the price I would rather consider a Warp Drive. Any opinions? The
manufacturer of my prop is obviously a wooden prop enthusiast, and
guarantees me that the Warp wouldn't perform even nearly as well a my wooden
prop. Any comments?

Regards,

Dawie.

I had a Q-1 with a Rotax and had a Warp Drive prop and a Prince wooden prop for it. The Prince far outperformed the Warp.
Just one data point.

Bounds
Former Q-driver.


David J. Gall
 

How about a GSC or Powerfin? They both have better airfoils than the Warp Drive or Ivoprop, so should give results more like a custom wood prop would give. I once flew another brand of airplane using a Precision Propellers ground adjustable prop and it flew 8-10 mph faster than with an in-flight adjustable Ivoprop. My rumor patrol tells me that the Powerfin blade profile is a copy of a Craig Catto design....


David J. Gall

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Bounds" <rebounds@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Propellor pains
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 17:27:37 -0600



4. For the price I would rather consider a Warp Drive. Any opinions? The
manufacturer of my prop is obviously a wooden prop enthusiast, and
guarantees me that the Warp wouldn't perform even nearly as well a my wooden
prop. Any comments?

Regards,

Dawie.

I had a Q-1 with a Rotax and had a Warp Drive prop and a Prince wooden prop
for it. The Prince far outperformed the Warp.
Just one data point.

Bounds
Former Q-driver.


damiantwinsport@...
 

N8427, suffered a wooden prop failure which caused a foced landing on a
roadway., an oncoming car forced pilot and plane into a ditch and struck a utility
pole. Pilot walked away Now I am reconstructing aircraft.
Think about it for a moment...... Carbon blades are made from continuos
fibres able to withstand much higher processing than wood. wood props are
constructed out of laminated wood..... ie shorter fibres that are discontinous, hmmm
me stainless leading edge carbon NO Doubt about it!
regards,
Damian Gregory N8427 Q 200 (under repair)


Dawie
 

Thanks for your response. I obviusly don't want to take any chances with a
prop, specially at this stage where it is someone else's life I'm playing
with. I thus suspect that even if I get feedback indicating it is OK, it may
still end up as a wall clock.

Still curious about the modes of failure that people have seen on wooden
props. Did N8427's prop leave the plane, lose a blade, hub failure? Were
there any signs of deterioration before the incident?

Any comments on specific carbon ground adjustable options?

Regards,

Dawie

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
damiantwinsport@...
Sent: 03 August 2005 09:39 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Propellor pains


N8427, suffered a wooden prop failure which caused a foced landing on a
roadway., an oncoming car forced pilot and plane into a ditch and struck a
utility
pole. Pilot walked away Now I am reconstructing aircraft.
Think about it for a moment...... Carbon blades are made from continuos
fibres able to withstand much higher processing than wood. wood props are
constructed out of laminated wood..... ie shorter fibres that are
discontinous, hmmm
me stainless leading edge carbon NO Doubt about it!
regards,
Damian Gregory N8427 Q 200 (under repair)






Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


James Postma <james@...>
 

Frank Follmer, the owner of the airplane, thought that a bird strike on the
propeller caused it to break. I saw the cowling and it may have had blood
on it. The propeller was destroyed in the crash when it hit head on with a
pole.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q2 Revmaster with LS-1
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dawie" <dha@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 9:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Propellor pains


Thanks for your response. I obviusly don't want to take any chances with a
prop, specially at this stage where it is someone else's life I'm playing
with. I thus suspect that even if I get feedback indicating it is OK, it
may
still end up as a wall clock.

Still curious about the modes of failure that people have seen on wooden
props. Did N8427's prop leave the plane, lose a blade, hub failure? Were
there any signs of deterioration before the incident?

Any comments on specific carbon ground adjustable options?

Regards,

Dawie

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
damiantwinsport@...
Sent: 03 August 2005 09:39 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Propellor pains


N8427, suffered a wooden prop failure which caused a foced landing on a
roadway., an oncoming car forced pilot and plane into a ditch and struck a
utility
pole. Pilot walked away Now I am reconstructing aircraft.
Think about it for a moment...... Carbon blades are made from continuos
fibres able to withstand much higher processing than wood. wood props are
constructed out of laminated wood..... ie shorter fibres that are
discontinous, hmmm
me stainless leading edge carbon NO Doubt about it!
regards,
Damian Gregory N8427 Q 200 (under repair)






Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links







Jon Finley <jon@...>
 

Hi Dawie,

I'm not sure about wood prop failure modes. I don't think I would fly with a
prop that had a crack. I suppose if the manufacturer had looked at it and given
their ok I might consider it but even then I would be looking to get a new prop
SOON. I hate to spend money when it isn't absolutely necessary. However; it
seems to me that a prop is one of those things that is just barely good enough
when everything is perfect.

I am running a three blade Warp Drive. With my Subaru engines being so
experimental, I knew I would never come close to picking the right pitch on a
wood/fixed pitch prop. The Warp Drive has a good reputation so I went with
it. For high-rpm use, I had Gary Hunter re-profile the blades to a thinner/
more efficient at high-speed profile. I haven't had any problems with it. I
would agree that it is not as efficient as a good fixed pitch prop. I don't
have any facts to support that other than just looking at the blades. Someday
I want to try a fixed pitch prop on my plane and see what it'll do.

For several years, the VW guys would not run CF props due to them causing
crankshaft problem. Not sure whether or not this is still true.

One Dragonfly with a direct-drive 2.5 Subaru had some problems with the blades
splintering at the root.

NSI makes an in-flight adjustable pitch hub that uses Warp Drive blades. I have
heard nothing good about this setup and would be VERY leary of using it.

Jon

Quoting Dawie <dha@...>:

Thanks for your response. I obviusly don't want to take any chances with a
prop, specially at this stage where it is someone else's life I'm playing
with. I thus suspect that even if I get feedback indicating it is OK, it may
still end up as a wall clock.

Still curious about the modes of failure that people have seen on wooden
props. Did N8427's prop leave the plane, lose a blade, hub failure? Were
there any signs of deterioration before the incident?

Any comments on specific carbon ground adjustable options?

Regards,

Dawie


damiantwinsport@...
 

Apparently with no forwarning one tine splintered and flew off into some cow
pasture.
Dman N8427


Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

I know Steve Bennett of Great Plains A/C wants nothing but a wood prop on his engines. They absorb the engine pulses so much better that anything else. I did ask him recently about a wood core wrapped in fiberglass and he thought that would work also.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Finley" <jon@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:25 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Propellor pains


Hi Dawie,

I'm not sure about wood prop failure modes. I don't think I would fly with a
prop that had a crack. I suppose if the manufacturer had looked at it and given
their ok I might consider it but even then I would be looking to get a new prop
SOON. I hate to spend money when it isn't absolutely necessary. However; it
seems to me that a prop is one of those things that is just barely good enough
when everything is perfect.

I am running a three blade Warp Drive. With my Subaru engines being so
experimental, I knew I would never come close to picking the right pitch on a
wood/fixed pitch prop. The Warp Drive has a good reputation so I went with
it. For high-rpm use, I had Gary Hunter re-profile the blades to a thinner/
more efficient at high-speed profile. I haven't had any problems with it. I
would agree that it is not as efficient as a good fixed pitch prop. I don't
have any facts to support that other than just looking at the blades. Someday
I want to try a fixed pitch prop on my plane and see what it'll do.

For several years, the VW guys would not run CF props due to them causing
crankshaft problem. Not sure whether or not this is still true.

One Dragonfly with a direct-drive 2.5 Subaru had some problems with the blades
splintering at the root.

NSI makes an in-flight adjustable pitch hub that uses Warp Drive blades. I have
heard nothing good about this setup and would be VERY leary of using it.

Jon

Quoting Dawie <dha@...>:
Thanks for your response. I obviusly don't want to take any chances with a
prop, specially at this stage where it is someone else's life I'm playing
with. I thus suspect that even if I get feedback indicating it is OK, it may
still end up as a wall clock.

Still curious about the modes of failure that people have seen on wooden
props. Did N8427's prop leave the plane, lose a blade, hub failure? Were
there any signs of deterioration before the incident?

Any comments on specific carbon ground adjustable options?

Regards,

Dawie



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links







James Doyle <jdoyle1941@...>
 

John, I agree with you assessment of the Warp Drive props. I flew behind one for several years and about 600 hours. I had a wood prop that was built on field by a prop craftsman and it was about 4-5 mph faster than the Warp Drive but the WD does not erode in the rain and was a little bit smoother (less vibration). The other feature the WD had was that it could be repitched if you were forced into a short field and wanted that much needed climb out power. I always carried wrenches and a protractor for such an event but never need them.

By the way I have finally decided that due to lack of a medical I will be selling off the Q and electronics. I will post a list of stuff later when I have time.

Jim Doyle
N56DW

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Finley" <jon@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:25 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Propellor pains


Hi Dawie,

I'm not sure about wood prop failure modes. I don't think I would fly with a
prop that had a crack. I suppose if the manufacturer had looked at it and given
their ok I might consider it but even then I would be looking to get a new prop
SOON. I hate to spend money when it isn't absolutely necessary. However; it
seems to me that a prop is one of those things that is just barely good enough
when everything is perfect.

I am running a three blade Warp Drive. With my Subaru engines being so
experimental, I knew I would never come close to picking the right pitch on a
wood/fixed pitch prop. The Warp Drive has a good reputation so I went with
it. For high-rpm use, I had Gary Hunter re-profile the blades to a thinner/
more efficient at high-speed profile. I haven't had any problems with it. I
would agree that it is not as efficient as a good fixed pitch prop. I don't
have any facts to support that other than just looking at the blades. Someday
I want to try a fixed pitch prop on my plane and see what it'll do.

For several years, the VW guys would not run CF props due to them causing
crankshaft problem. Not sure whether or not this is still true.

One Dragonfly with a direct-drive 2.5 Subaru had some problems with the blades
splintering at the root.

NSI makes an in-flight adjustable pitch hub that uses Warp Drive blades. I have
heard nothing good about this setup and would be VERY leary of using it.

Jon

Quoting Dawie <dha@...>:
Thanks for your response. I obviusly don't want to take any chances with a
prop, specially at this stage where it is someone else's life I'm playing
with. I thus suspect that even if I get feedback indicating it is OK, it may
still end up as a wall clock.

Still curious about the modes of failure that people have seen on wooden
props. Did N8427's prop leave the plane, lose a blade, hub failure? Were
there any signs of deterioration before the incident?

Any comments on specific carbon ground adjustable options?

Regards,

Dawie



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links









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damiantwinsport@...
 

Ron ,I sent you a link to Hog Air, I can do much better than their price. I
will talk to you at Livermore if you make it. I am at work right now so I will
send you my flight info when I get home.
Regards,
Dman N8427


Dawie
 

Thanks to all for the responses. It's wonderful to be able to tap into so
much knowlege and experience with a few keystrokes.

Dawie

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
James Doyle
Sent: 04 August 2005 05:32 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Propellor pains


John, I agree with you assessment of the Warp Drive props. I flew behind one
for several years and about 600 hours. I had a wood prop that was built on
field by a prop craftsman and it was about 4-5 mph faster than the Warp
Drive but the WD does not erode in the rain and was a little bit smoother
(less vibration). The other feature the WD had was that it could be
repitched if you were forced into a short field and wanted that much needed
climb out power. I always carried wrenches and a protractor for such an
event but never need them.

By the way I have finally decided that due to lack of a medical I will be
selling off the Q and electronics. I will post a list of stuff later when I
have time.

Jim Doyle
N56DW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Finley" <jon@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:25 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Propellor pains


Hi Dawie,

I'm not sure about wood prop failure modes. I don't think I would fly with
a
prop that had a crack. I suppose if the manufacturer had looked at it and
given
their ok I might consider it but even then I would be looking to get a new
prop
SOON. I hate to spend money when it isn't absolutely necessary. However;
it
seems to me that a prop is one of those things that is just barely good
enough
when everything is perfect.

I am running a three blade Warp Drive. With my Subaru engines being so
experimental, I knew I would never come close to picking the right pitch
on a
wood/fixed pitch prop. The Warp Drive has a good reputation so I went
with
it. For high-rpm use, I had Gary Hunter re-profile the blades to a
thinner/
more efficient at high-speed profile. I haven't had any problems with it.
I
would agree that it is not as efficient as a good fixed pitch prop. I
don't
have any facts to support that other than just looking at the blades.
Someday
I want to try a fixed pitch prop on my plane and see what it'll do.

For several years, the VW guys would not run CF props due to them causing
crankshaft problem. Not sure whether or not this is still true.

One Dragonfly with a direct-drive 2.5 Subaru had some problems with the
blades
splintering at the root.

NSI makes an in-flight adjustable pitch hub that uses Warp Drive blades. I
have
heard nothing good about this setup and would be VERY leary of using it.

Jon

Quoting Dawie <dha@...>:
Thanks for your response. I obviusly don't want to take any chances with
a
prop, specially at this stage where it is someone else's life I'm playing
with. I thus suspect that even if I get feedback indicating it is OK, it
may
still end up as a wall clock.

Still curious about the modes of failure that people have seen on wooden
props. Did N8427's prop leave the plane, lose a blade, hub failure? Were
there any signs of deterioration before the incident?

Any comments on specific carbon ground adjustable options?

Regards,

Dawie



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links









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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.8/61 - Release Date: 8/1/2005



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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.8/61 - Release Date: 8/1/2005



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


rondefly@...
 

Great, now you will have all the environmentalist after you for
contaminating the cow pasture.

Ron T

Ron & Carolyn Triano Q-200 N4710P
My Web
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page8.html
Quickie 1:
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page9.html
Livermore Fly-in
http://www.farnamengineering.com/LivermoreTandemWingFlyin.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
damiantwinsport@...
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:06 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Propellor pains

Apparently with no forwarning one tine splintered and flew off into some cow
pasture.
Dman N8427






Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org





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