aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?


MartinErni@...
 

Wes,
The kit spinner was kevlar and is much tougher than alum. It does need a
front bulkhead. Is that what you have or is it really fiberglass?
Earnest


wesisberg <wes@...>
 

Hi -

For my Q200 I have a fibreglas spinner and bulkhead that I've decided
to replace with aluminum (spinner, rear bulkhead and probably front
bulkhead), most likely the Aircraft Spruce one mentioned by Sam Hoskins in

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/message/19334

i.e.,

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/sn4.php

If someone knows of a better (more timely?) alternative, let me know.
(I considered getting the rear bulkhead and buying or making the
front bulkhead and sticking with the fibreglas spinner, but I'm
guessing I'd save at most a pound for the trouble.)

Thanks -
Wes


Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

I think balance is a big factor but not so easy to balance the cone.
Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Patillo
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:31 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?


Sam,

FYI, I've been using an aluminum spinner, aluminum backing plate and
aluminum front bulkhead (wrapped with small diameter black rubber fuel
hose)for 700+ hours now and have never had a problem. The front
bulkhead/rubber hose to spinner is a fairly snug push on fit.

Regards,

Jim P.

P.S. I've now converted the outer bushings on my ailerons and elevators
from steel on steel bushings(factory)to Rulon on steel. It completely
eliminated the up/down slop found on most all Q's. The controls are
extremely smooth. I will keep everyone informed as I complete a 1 yr.
test period.


-- In Q-LIST@..., shoskins@m... wrote:
>
> Apparently the plate/tubing combination was not rock solid and some
movement
> occurred. This movement flexes the back plate and develops cracks.
The cracks
> appear as very thin black lines on the backplate, often around the
> circumference of the crankshaft flange.
> Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






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MartinErni@...
 

Wes,
The rear bulkhead is kevlar also and I have never heard of one failing.
Kevlar is tough as nails and will not crack. The biggest problem is cutting
it. It takes very, very sharp tools. An easy way to make a front bulkhead is
to make a sandwich of thin but dense foam with a layer of bid on each side.
Then cut out a hole in the center that is the exact size of your prop crush
plate. It has to fit tight and does not go under the plate, just fits around it.
Then cut the outside diameter of the sandwich the same size as the spinner
inside diameter at the crush plate location. This cut should be beveled to fit
snuggly inside the spinner. When the spinner is installed the prop and crush
plate hold the front bulkhead in one direction and the spinner holds it in
the other. This way the front of the spinner can't move in any direction as
long as you keep it a tight fit. Jerry Marstall used this method very
successfully on his Q2. I would consider putting a flox closeout where the foam is
exposed.
Earnest


Jim Patillo
 

Wes,

You DO need to install a front bulkhead for your spinner. Talk to
Brad Olsen about what happens when you don't. He didn't have one and
his rear bulkhead failed (around the bolt pattern) on our way back
from Oshkosh, leaving the spinner flopping around on his new prop.
Fortunately I saw it just as we landed in Rapid City, SD. A couple
more minutes and it would have failed and could have taken off the
prop as it was already cutting into it.

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200

P.S. All of the issues you keep asking about have been done and are
readily solvable. Just look at the beautiful example next you and
copy it! A no brainer. Remember there are more Q200's on your field
than anywhere else on the earth.

--- In Q-LIST@..., "wesisberg" <wes@c...> wrote:

Hi -

For my Q200 I have a fibreglas spinner and bulkhead that I've
decided
to replace with aluminum (spinner, rear bulkhead and probably front
bulkhead), most likely the Aircraft Spruce one mentioned by Sam
Hoskins in

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/message/19334

i.e.,

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/sn4.php

If someone knows of a better (more timely?) alternative, let me
know.
(I considered getting the rear bulkhead and buying or making the
front bulkhead and sticking with the fibreglas spinner, but I'm
guessing I'd save at most a pound for the trouble.)

Thanks -
Wes


wesisberg <wes@...>
 

Hi Jim -

Mainly I was hoping to hear of bulkheads I could get faster.

I did talk with Brad and did plan the front bulkhead (make or buy).
I try to do the research before posting so as not to waste people's
time, but also I'd like to hear any objections in case I left
something out (e.g., perhaps I should keep the *kevlar* spinner but
use the SN-4 bulkheads, or buy the rear and make the front...).
I have about 100 items on my todo list for 57RM, and I'm trying not
to ask too much of you, Bob, Dave, et al. And if I did try to copy
the beautiful machine next to mine, it would be more like 1000
todo items! Yours does give me something to aim for - after 57RM is
flying again.

Thanks -
Wes

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"
<logistics_engineering@m...> wrote:

Wes,

You DO need to install a front bulkhead for your spinner. Talk to
Brad Olsen about what happens when you don't. He didn't have one and
his rear bulkhead failed (around the bolt pattern) on our way back
from Oshkosh, leaving the spinner flopping around on his new prop.
Fortunately I saw it just as we landed in Rapid City, SD. A couple
more minutes and it would have failed and could have taken off the
prop as it was already cutting into it.

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200

P.S. All of the issues you keep asking about have been done and are
readily solvable. Just look at the beautiful example next you and
copy it! A no brainer. Remember there are more Q200's on your field
than anywhere else on the earth.

--- In Q-LIST@..., "wesisberg" <wes@c...> wrote:

Hi -

For my Q200 I have a fibreglas spinner and bulkhead that I've
decided
to replace with aluminum (spinner, rear bulkhead and probably front
bulkhead), most likely the Aircraft Spruce one mentioned by Sam
Hoskins in

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/message/19334

i.e.,

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/sn4.php

If someone knows of a better (more timely?) alternative, let me
know.
(I considered getting the rear bulkhead and buying or making the
front bulkhead and sticking with the fibreglas spinner, but I'm
guessing I'd save at most a pound for the trouble.)

Thanks -
Wes


wesisberg <wes@...>
 

Earnest,

The kit spinner is kevlar? I'll verify mine is, and try to keep it if
so.

Is the kit rear bulkhead kevlar? I've been assuming I should replace
it with aluminum. I'll check that. As I hear it, the risk with
composite bulkheads is that the material clamped under the bolts gets
hot and soft, allowing the prop bolts to loosen, which makes more
fretting/friction, leading to failure. (Are they also just more
brittle/susceptible to cracking?) The aerocomposite (?) bulkheads
report special multi-point bosses to avoid fretting; I'm not sure
exactly what that means or whether it works, or whether it applies to
the kit bulkhead (assuming ftm that's what I have). There are other
FAA-certified composite bulkheads, so I'd expect there's some way to
do them right.

I'll certainly add a front bulkhead. Bob F. has told me how to make
one from aluminum.

Thanks -
Wes


--- In Q-LIST@..., MartinErni@a... wrote:

Wes,
The kit spinner was kevlar and is much tougher than alum. It
does need a
front bulkhead. Is that what you have or is it really fiberglass?
Earnest


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Leon - C <leon@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "wesisberg" <wes@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:27 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?


Earnest,

The kit spinner is kevlar? I'll verify mine is, and try to keep it if
so.
The 2 I have here are just plain old glass. Both came with the kits when I
got them, from 2 separate places, and look identical. So I am - assuming -
that they were QAC originals. Doesn't mean that QAC didn't supply Kevlar
ones........
=================
Leon McAtee


David Chalmers <David@...>
 

Wes, I installed the SN-4 a few years ago. I ordered the front bulkhead but my prop hub was too thick for it so I put the front bulkhead on the lathe and turned it down to the right size. This removed the nice flange that rests against the inside of the spinner so I got some small gauge nylon tubing, slit it down one side and pressed it over the edge of the front bulkhead disc all the way round. It makes a good fit with the inside of the spinner. You can use tubing with different wall thicknesses to adjust the fit. It has held up well so far.

I also have an unused, uncut, white 10" UHS fiberglass spinner (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/uhs.php). It has a front bulkhead only (spinner is attached to front bulkhead) and is suitable for prop hubs less than 3.25" thick. It would work fine on a Q2 but my prop hub was too thick. If anyone wants it let me know.

Dave Chalmers
TriQ200 N4016G 250hrs
Redmond WA

-----Original Message-----
From: wesisberg [mailto:wes@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:28 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?


Earnest,

The kit spinner is kevlar? I'll verify mine is, and try to keep it if
so.

Is the kit rear bulkhead kevlar? I've been assuming I should replace
it with aluminum. I'll check that. As I hear it, the risk with
composite bulkheads is that the material clamped under the bolts gets
hot and soft, allowing the prop bolts to loosen, which makes more
fretting/friction, leading to failure. (Are they also just more
brittle/susceptible to cracking?) The aerocomposite (?) bulkheads
report special multi-point bosses to avoid fretting; I'm not sure
exactly what that means or whether it works, or whether it applies to
the kit bulkhead (assuming ftm that's what I have). There are other
FAA-certified composite bulkheads, so I'd expect there's some way to
do them right.

I'll certainly add a front bulkhead. Bob F. has told me how to make
one from aluminum.

Thanks -
Wes


--- In Q-LIST@..., MartinErni@a... wrote:

Wes,
The kit spinner was kevlar and is much tougher than alum. It
does need a
front bulkhead. Is that what you have or is it really fiberglass?
Earnest


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

In my experience Kevlar is very difficult to make clean non-fuzzy cuts. I
would recommend the aluminum spinner with the aluminum back plate.

Spruce has a limited number of front plates available. As already
mentioned, the geometry of the front plate is dependent on the prop
thickness.

There is a very long lead-time (months) ordering spinners and back plates
from Spruce and they don't always fit perfectly. It might not hurt to order
two back plates and keep one as a spare. Each one is custom made, since
they drill the bolt pattern. The O-200 uses the SAE 1 pattern with 5/8"
bushings.

I tried the plastic tubing method for the front plant and it failed on me,
so I fabricated my own front plate using Kevlar. Carbon fiber probably
would have been a better choice. I installed nut plates and use four screws
to attach the spinner to the front plate.

I have probably installed six spinners in the last 20 years. For me, it's a
real pain in the rear and gut wrenching experience. Overall, I am very
dissatisfied with the ACS product support and customer service. If there
was a suitable off-the-shelf composite spinner supplier I would sure like to
meet them.

Sam Hoskins

Murphysboro, IL





_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
wesisberg
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:30 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?



Hi Jim -

Mainly I was hoping to hear of bulkheads I could get faster.

I did talk with Brad and did plan the front bulkhead (make or buy).
I try to do the research before posting so as not to waste people's
time, but also I'd like to hear any objections in case I left
something out (e.g., perhaps I should keep the *kevlar* spinner but
use the SN-4 bulkheads, or buy the rear and make the front...).
I have about 100 items on my todo list for 57RM, and I'm trying not
to ask too much of you, Bob, Dave, et al. And if I did try to copy
the beautiful machine next to mine, it would be more like 1000
todo items! Yours does give me something to aim for - after 57RM is
flying again.

Thanks -
Wes

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"
<logistics_engineering@m...> wrote:

Wes,

You DO need to install a front bulkhead for your spinner. Talk to
Brad Olsen about what happens when you don't. He didn't have one and
his rear bulkhead failed (around the bolt pattern) on our way back
from Oshkosh, leaving the spinner flopping around on his new prop.
Fortunately I saw it just as we landed in Rapid City, SD. A couple
more minutes and it would have failed and could have taken off the
prop as it was already cutting into it.

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200

P.S. All of the issues you keep asking about have been done and are
readily solvable. Just look at the beautiful example next you and
copy it! A no brainer. Remember there are more Q200's on your field
than anywhere else on the earth.

--- In Q-LIST@..., "wesisberg" <wes@c...> wrote:

Hi -

For my Q200 I have a fibreglas spinner and bulkhead that I've
decided
to replace with aluminum (spinner, rear bulkhead and probably front
bulkhead), most likely the Aircraft Spruce one mentioned by Sam
Hoskins in

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/message/19334

i.e.,

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/sn4.php

If someone knows of a better (more timely?) alternative, let me
know.
(I considered getting the rear bulkhead and buying or making the
front bulkhead and sticking with the fibreglas spinner, but I'm
guessing I'd save at most a pound for the trouble.)

Thanks -
Wes





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






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Ron <rondefly@...>
 

From my experience with resins and cloth, I would choose carbon fibre, I
surely believe it has the best qualities for a part like a spinner, I also
agree with both plates, Once made the part should be balanced. That is
probably why some are having a problem with the different materials
cracking, I really think it is in the balance. Charlie, (One Sky Dog) made a
beautiful carbon fibre one and I think he had them for sale a few years
back, Think he monitors this list and the Dfly list.



Keep Building

Ron T



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Sam Hoskins
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 5:08 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?



In my experience Kevlar is very difficult to make clean non-fuzzy cuts. I
would recommend the aluminum spinner with the aluminum back plate.

Spruce has a limited number of front plates available. As already
mentioned, the geometry of the front plate is dependent on the prop
thickness.

There is a very long lead-time (months) ordering spinners and back plates
from Spruce and they don't always fit perfectly. It might not hurt to order
two back plates and keep one as a spare. Each one is custom made, since
they drill the bolt pattern. The O-200 uses the SAE 1 pattern with 5/8"
bushings.

I tried the plastic tubing method for the front plant and it failed on me,
so I fabricated my own front plate using Kevlar. Carbon fiber probably
would have been a better choice. I installed nut plates and use four screws
to attach the spinner to the front plate.

I have probably installed six spinners in the last 20 years. For me, it's a
real pain in the rear and gut wrenching experience. Overall, I am very
dissatisfied with the ACS product support and customer service. If there
was a suitable off-the-shelf composite spinner supplier I would sure like to
meet them.

Sam Hoskins

Murphysboro, IL





_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
wesisberg
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:30 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?



Hi Jim -

Mainly I was hoping to hear of bulkheads I could get faster.

I did talk with Brad and did plan the front bulkhead (make or buy).
I try to do the research before posting so as not to waste people's
time, but also I'd like to hear any objections in case I left
something out (e.g., perhaps I should keep the *kevlar* spinner but
use the SN-4 bulkheads, or buy the rear and make the front...).
I have about 100 items on my todo list for 57RM, and I'm trying not
to ask too much of you, Bob, Dave, et al. And if I did try to copy
the beautiful machine next to mine, it would be more like 1000
todo items! Yours does give me something to aim for - after 57RM is
flying again.

Thanks -
Wes

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"
<logistics_engineering@m...> wrote:

Wes,

You DO need to install a front bulkhead for your spinner. Talk to
Brad Olsen about what happens when you don't. He didn't have one and
his rear bulkhead failed (around the bolt pattern) on our way back
from Oshkosh, leaving the spinner flopping around on his new prop.
Fortunately I saw it just as we landed in Rapid City, SD. A couple
more minutes and it would have failed and could have taken off the
prop as it was already cutting into it.

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200

P.S. All of the issues you keep asking about have been done and are
readily solvable. Just look at the beautiful example next you and
copy it! A no brainer. Remember there are more Q200's on your field
than anywhere else on the earth.

--- In Q-LIST@..., "wesisberg" <wes@c...> wrote:

Hi -

For my Q200 I have a fibreglas spinner and bulkhead that I've
decided
to replace with aluminum (spinner, rear bulkhead and probably front
bulkhead), most likely the Aircraft Spruce one mentioned by Sam
Hoskins in

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/message/19334

i.e.,

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/sn4.php

If someone knows of a better (more timely?) alternative, let me
know.
(I considered getting the rear bulkhead and buying or making the
front bulkhead and sticking with the fibreglas spinner, but I'm
guessing I'd save at most a pound for the trouble.)

Thanks -
Wes





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






SPONSORED LINKS


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Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Well it is not really a point but a small dome. And we need to balance the back and front plates also. I think that generally not enough attention is given to the balancing of each part.
Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 6:48 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?


--- In Q-LIST@..., "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@b...>
wrote:
>
> I think balance is a big factor but not so easy to balance the
cone.
> Peter

Peter, there is a point on the inside of the cone isn't there? Just
like a tire balancer, support it with a point and spin it while
watching the level line of the rear part of the spinner.

Ron T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Patillo
> To: Q-LIST@...
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:31 AM
> Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?
>
>
> Sam,
>
> FYI, I've been using an aluminum spinner, aluminum backing plate
and
> aluminum front bulkhead (wrapped with small diameter black
rubber fuel
> hose)for 700+ hours now and have never had a problem. The front
> bulkhead/rubber hose to spinner is a fairly snug push on fit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jim P.
>
> P.S. I've now converted the outer bushings on my ailerons and
elevators
> from steel on steel bushings(factory)to Rulon on steel. It
completely
> eliminated the up/down slop found on most all Q's. The controls
are
> extremely smooth. I will keep everyone informed as I complete a
1 yr.
> test period.
>
>
> -- In Q-LIST@..., shoskins@m... wrote:
> >
> > Apparently the plate/tubing combination was not rock solid and
some
> movement
> > occurred. This movement flexes the back plate and develops
cracks.
> The cracks
> > appear as very thin black lines on the backplate, often around
the
> > circumference of the crankshaft flange.
> > Sam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Aviation maintenance Aviation maintenance
training Aviation maintenance schools
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Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Thanks Jim. Sounds as if you have the means to balance as good as it gets.
Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Patillo
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:33 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?



Peter,

I have a Dynamic Prop Balancer which actually makes it fairly easy
to balance the whole assembly in one step. The FAA calls for a
balance if over 2.0 IPS (I think) for certified airplanes? Mine is
balanced to .05 IPS with a near 0 phase angle. It makes the engine
pretty smooth.

The additional problem however, comes from the harmonics of the
airframe as it cuts through the air. You can get a good ground
balance and still have vibration at certain RPM's in the air. You
just have to play with the dynamic balance to compensate.


It would be so nice to be able to balance the whole thing in the air
at a particular cruise speed.

Regards,

Jim


--- In Q-LIST@..., "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@b...>
wrote:
>
> I think balance is a big factor but not so easy to balance the
cone.
> Peter
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Patillo
> To: Q-LIST@...
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:31 AM
> Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?
>
>
> Sam,
>
> FYI, I've been using an aluminum spinner, aluminum backing plate
and
> aluminum front bulkhead (wrapped with small diameter black
rubber fuel
> hose)for 700+ hours now and have never had a problem. The front
> bulkhead/rubber hose to spinner is a fairly snug push on fit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jim P.
>
> P.S. I've now converted the outer bushings on my ailerons and
elevators
> from steel on steel bushings(factory)to Rulon on steel. It
completely
> eliminated the up/down slop found on most all Q's. The controls
are
> extremely smooth. I will keep everyone informed as I complete a
1 yr.
> test period.
>
>
> -- In Q-LIST@..., shoskins@m... wrote:
> >
> > Apparently the plate/tubing combination was not rock solid and
some
> movement
> > occurred. This movement flexes the back plate and develops
cracks.
> The cracks
> > appear as very thin black lines on the backplate, often around
the
> > circumference of the crankshaft flange.
> > Sam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Aviation maintenance Aviation maintenance
training Aviation maintenance schools
> Aviation maintenance schools Aviation Aviation art
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "Q-LIST" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>
>
>
>
>







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Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Jim I just realised I missread yout misspoke ! But if you can balance the whole of the assembly including the prop, the spinner and bulkheads that seems like the way to go ?
Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Patillo
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:38 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?


Sorry Peter,I mis-spoke. Thought you were talking about something
else but then read the prior posts and realized my FU.

Jim P.
--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"
<logistics_engineering@m...> wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> I have a Dynamic Prop Balancer which actually makes it fairly easy
> to balance the whole assembly in one step. The FAA calls for a
> balance if over 2.0 IPS (I think) for certified airplanes? Mine is
> balanced to .05 IPS with a near 0 phase angle. It makes the engine
> pretty smooth.
>
> The additional problem however, comes from the harmonics of the
> airframe as it cuts through the air. You can get a good ground
> balance and still have vibration at certain RPM's in the air. You
> just have to play with the dynamic balance to compensate.
>
>
> It would be so nice to be able to balance the whole thing in the
air
> at a particular cruise speed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jim
>
>
> --- In Q-LIST@..., "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@b...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I think balance is a big factor but not so easy to balance the
> cone.
> > Peter
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jim Patillo
> > To: Q-LIST@...
> > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:31 AM
> > Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?
> >
> >
> > Sam,
> >
> > FYI, I've been using an aluminum spinner, aluminum backing
plate
> and
> > aluminum front bulkhead (wrapped with small diameter black
> rubber fuel
> > hose)for 700+ hours now and have never had a problem. The
front
> > bulkhead/rubber hose to spinner is a fairly snug push on fit.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jim P.
> >
> > P.S. I've now converted the outer bushings on my ailerons and
> elevators
> > from steel on steel bushings(factory)to Rulon on steel. It
> completely
> > eliminated the up/down slop found on most all Q's. The
controls
> are
> > extremely smooth. I will keep everyone informed as I complete
a
> 1 yr.
> > test period.
> >
> >
> > -- In Q-LIST@..., shoskins@m... wrote:
> > >
> > > Apparently the plate/tubing combination was not rock solid
and
> some
> > movement
> > > occurred. This movement flexes the back plate and develops
> cracks.
> > The cracks
> > > appear as very thin black lines on the backplate, often
around
> the
> > > circumference of the crankshaft flange.
> > > Sam
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> > http://www.quickiebuilders.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS Aviation maintenance Aviation maintenance
> training Aviation maintenance schools
> > Aviation maintenance schools Aviation Aviation art
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -----------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "Q-LIST" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms
> of Service.
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>






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Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

No spinner looks unfinished and how about the effect on airflow into the cowl ?
Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: David Chalmers
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?


I tried to measure the difference a few years back. It's hard to measure such a small change but I put it somewhere between 1/2 and 1mph at 170mph.

Dave Chalmers
TriQ200 N4016G 250hrs
Redmond WA

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Perry [mailto:dmperry1012@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:01 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?


At 07:07 AM 1/12/2006 -0600, Sam Hoskins wrote:
> {snip}
>I have probably installed six spinners in the last 20 years. For me, it's a
>real pain in the rear and gut wrenching experience. Overall, I am very
>dissatisfied with the ACS product support and customer service. If there
>was a suitable off-the-shelf composite spinner supplier I would sure like to
>meet them.
>
>Sam Hoskins

Has anyone compared performance with and without a spinner on a Q-2xx? I
thought Mike Arnold said that he left the spinner off because it didn't
help performance. Any comments?

(haven't watched the AR-5 Videos in a couple of years, but I'm pretty sure
he said that)

Mike Perry






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David Chalmers <David@...>
 

Sam, how did the plastic tubing method fail?

Dave Chalmers
TriQ200 N4016G 250hrs
Redmond WA

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins [mailto:shoskins@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 5:08 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?


In my experience Kevlar is very difficult to make clean non-fuzzy cuts. I
would recommend the aluminum spinner with the aluminum back plate.

Spruce has a limited number of front plates available. As already
mentioned, the geometry of the front plate is dependent on the prop
thickness.

There is a very long lead-time (months) ordering spinners and back plates
from Spruce and they don't always fit perfectly. It might not hurt to order
two back plates and keep one as a spare. Each one is custom made, since
they drill the bolt pattern. The O-200 uses the SAE 1 pattern with 5/8"
bushings.

I tried the plastic tubing method for the front plant and it failed on me,
so I fabricated my own front plate using Kevlar. Carbon fiber probably
would have been a better choice. I installed nut plates and use four screws
to attach the spinner to the front plate.

I have probably installed six spinners in the last 20 years. For me, it's a
real pain in the rear and gut wrenching experience. Overall, I am very
dissatisfied with the ACS product support and customer service. If there
was a suitable off-the-shelf composite spinner supplier I would sure like to
meet them.

Sam Hoskins

Murphysboro, IL





_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
wesisberg
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:30 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?



Hi Jim -

Mainly I was hoping to hear of bulkheads I could get faster.

I did talk with Brad and did plan the front bulkhead (make or buy).
I try to do the research before posting so as not to waste people's
time, but also I'd like to hear any objections in case I left
something out (e.g., perhaps I should keep the *kevlar* spinner but
use the SN-4 bulkheads, or buy the rear and make the front...).
I have about 100 items on my todo list for 57RM, and I'm trying not
to ask too much of you, Bob, Dave, et al. And if I did try to copy
the beautiful machine next to mine, it would be more like 1000
todo items! Yours does give me something to aim for - after 57RM is
flying again.

Thanks -
Wes

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"
<logistics_engineering@m...> wrote:

Wes,

You DO need to install a front bulkhead for your spinner. Talk to
Brad Olsen about what happens when you don't. He didn't have one and
his rear bulkhead failed (around the bolt pattern) on our way back
from Oshkosh, leaving the spinner flopping around on his new prop.
Fortunately I saw it just as we landed in Rapid City, SD. A couple
more minutes and it would have failed and could have taken off the
prop as it was already cutting into it.

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200

P.S. All of the issues you keep asking about have been done and are
readily solvable. Just look at the beautiful example next you and
copy it! A no brainer. Remember there are more Q200's on your field
than anywhere else on the earth.

--- In Q-LIST@..., "wesisberg" <wes@c...> wrote:

Hi -

For my Q200 I have a fibreglas spinner and bulkhead that I've
decided
to replace with aluminum (spinner, rear bulkhead and probably front
bulkhead), most likely the Aircraft Spruce one mentioned by Sam
Hoskins in

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/message/19334

i.e.,

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/sn4.php

If someone knows of a better (more timely?) alternative, let me
know.
(I considered getting the rear bulkhead and buying or making the
front bulkhead and sticking with the fibreglas spinner, but I'm
guessing I'd save at most a pound for the trouble.)

Thanks -
Wes





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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shoskins@...
 

Apparently the plate/tubing combination was not rock solid and some movement
occurred. This movement flexes the back plate and develops cracks. The cracks
appear as very thin black lines on the backplate, often around the
circumference of the crankshaft flange.
Sam


Jim Patillo
 

Sam,

FYI, I've been using an aluminum spinner, aluminum backing plate and
aluminum front bulkhead (wrapped with small diameter black rubber fuel
hose)for 700+ hours now and have never had a problem. The front
bulkhead/rubber hose to spinner is a fairly snug push on fit.

Regards,

Jim P.

P.S. I've now converted the outer bushings on my ailerons and elevators
from steel on steel bushings(factory)to Rulon on steel. It completely
eliminated the up/down slop found on most all Q's. The controls are
extremely smooth. I will keep everyone informed as I complete a 1 yr.
test period.


-- In Q-LIST@..., shoskins@m... wrote:

Apparently the plate/tubing combination was not rock solid and some
movement
occurred. This movement flexes the back plate and develops cracks.
The cracks
appear as very thin black lines on the backplate, often around the
circumference of the crankshaft flange.
Sam





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


steve <sham@...>
 

Jim, Where did you buy your Rulon. Do they make bushings or did you fabricate yours?

Steve Ham

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Patillo
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:31 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?


Sam,

FYI, I've been using an aluminum spinner, aluminum backing plate and
aluminum front bulkhead (wrapped with small diameter black rubber fuel
hose)for 700+ hours now and have never had a problem. The front
bulkhead/rubber hose to spinner is a fairly snug push on fit.

Regards,

Jim P.

P.S. I've now converted the outer bushings on my ailerons and elevators
from steel on steel bushings(factory)to Rulon on steel. It completely
eliminated the up/down slop found on most all Q's. The controls are
extremely smooth. I will keep everyone informed as I complete a 1 yr.
test period.


-- In Q-LIST@..., shoskins@m... wrote:
>
> Apparently the plate/tubing combination was not rock solid and some
movement
> occurred. This movement flexes the back plate and develops cracks.
The cracks
> appear as very thin black lines on the backplate, often around the
> circumference of the crankshaft flange.
> Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org





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Bob Farnam <bfarnam@...>
 

As another point of info regarding the use of tubing on the front spinner
bulkhead, I also had failures when I used Tygon tubing. When I switched to
polyurethane tubing, the problems went away. Urethane has much higher cut
and abrasion resistance. I have about 250 hours on the urethane and it still
looks good.

Bob F.
N200QK
EAA Flight Advisor

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:31 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: aluminum spinner - ACS SN-4?


Sam,

FYI, I've been using an aluminum spinner, aluminum backing plate and
aluminum front bulkhead (wrapped with small diameter black rubber fuel
hose)for 700+ hours now and have never had a problem. The front
bulkhead/rubber hose to spinner is a fairly snug push on fit.

Regards,

Jim P.

P.S. I've now converted the outer bushings on my ailerons and elevators
from steel on steel bushings(factory)to Rulon on steel. It completely
eliminated the up/down slop found on most all Q's. The controls are
extremely smooth. I will keep everyone informed as I complete a 1 yr.
test period.


-- In Q-LIST@..., shoskins@m... wrote:
>
> Apparently the plate/tubing combination was not rock solid and some
movement
> occurred. This movement flexes the back plate and develops cracks.
The cracks
> appear as very thin black lines on the backplate, often around the
> circumference of the crankshaft flange.
> Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






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