Alert! Alert!


MartinErni@...
 

Mike,
The internal shaft of these glass filters should be drilled and a cotter
pin installed to prevent it from working loose.
Earnest


Jim Patillo
 

Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo


MartinErni@...
 

Reg,
Any filter is dangerous if not changed regularly.
Earnest


One Sky Dog
 

In a message dated 7/14/2006 11:27:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:



Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage to
either the pilot or plane.





Don't check them, Chuck them in the trash. If you need a see thru filter use
a Fram G3 but not in the engine compartment. They have about 30 times more
filter surface area. Those custom car filters have taken down more than one
airplane.

Regards,

One Sky Dog


Reginald Clarke <airryder@...>
 

On 14-Jul-06, at 11:07 AM, Jim Patillo wrote:
Add on to Group I have had one gradually block off in my DRAGONFLY I
lost power and made Emergancy landing. When I looked at filter it
looked like new from outside .it din't look blocked but it was.These
are very dangerous filters
Reg Clarke /Q2 N624JC
Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo



Michael Huffman <mikehuffman@...>
 

As a longtime homebuilder, A&P, and DAR, I echo what Jim Patillo says about checking/replacing fuel filters often. It would be nice (sorta) if the automotive/motorcycle/ultralight fuel filters had an internal bypass to allow fuel to flow if they were plugged, but I've not been able to find any that have that feature. Without that, the only way to know the filter is open is to check it or replace it frequently.

When I certificate existing an "ultralight-type vehicles" that has already been flown for some time and are being certificated as experimental light-sport aircraft (ELSA), I insist that the owner replace the fuel filter (since they are cheap anyway). In my ELSA repairman courses, I also recommend the owner do the same thing at each annual, or more frequently.

Of course, when a plugged filter is encountered, the other question is, "Why is it plugged?" Is there contamination in the tank that needs to be cleaned out? Is some sealant material becoming dislodged? Is the fiberglass disentegrating? It bears examining the plugged filter to try and find out.

A couple of other things regarding filters bear mentioning:
a.. There have been reports that some paper-element automotive filters do not stand up well to aviation fuel. Unfortunately I cannot narrow down that statement any further.
b.. I have seen the cylindrical glass filters installed upside down (so the flow is in the wrong direction). If that is the case, the filter element can come loose inside the glass cylinder and block the output port (which is really the input).
Take it for what it's worth--free advice!!

Mike Huffman


n17pf <FisherPaul@...>
 

I agree Mike. I always change my fuel filter at annual. I
specifically used cheap automotive filters ($2-3 each), so I wouldn't
be tempted to try to extend their life. I'm sure the fancy glass ones
look pretty, but are you willing to throw it away every year?

After removing the filter, I always break it open to inspect the paper
element. So far I haven't had any problems. They haven't been
plugged up, nor have they fallen apart. I HAVE found little bits in
the filter, so I know the filter is doing its job. I only use 100LL,
so I don't know what problem people are having with Avgas.

Paul A. Fisher
Q-200 N17PF - ~1200 hours

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Michael Huffman" <mikehuffman@...>
wrote:
... snip ...
When I certificate existing an "ultralight-type vehicles" that has
already been flown for some time and are being certificated as
experimental light-sport aircraft (ELSA), I insist that the owner
replace the fuel filter (since they are cheap anyway).
... snip ...
A couple of other things regarding filters bear mentioning:
a.. There have been reports that some paper-element automotive
filters do not stand up well to aviation fuel. Unfortunately I cannot
narrow down that statement any further.
... snip ...
Mike Huffman


DrCastro <drcastrojc@...>
 

Aloha guys
What about the use of 2 filters?
The fuel line could have an "Y" conection for use of 2 independent filters and another "Y" inverted connection to go bake to fuel line.
In case one is plugged the extra remains working.
Castro

In case one is plugged

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Huffman" <mikehuffman@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 4:35 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Alert! Alert!


As a longtime homebuilder, A&P, and DAR, I echo what Jim Patillo says about checking/replacing fuel filters often. It would be nice (sorta) if the automotive/motorcycle/ultralight fuel filters had an internal bypass to allow fuel to flow if they were plugged, but I've not been able to find any that have that feature. Without that, the only way to know the filter is open is to check it or replace it frequently.

When I certificate existing an "ultralight-type vehicles" that has already been flown for some time and are being certificated as experimental light-sport aircraft (ELSA), I insist that the owner replace the fuel filter (since they are cheap anyway). In my ELSA repairman courses, I also recommend the owner do the same thing at each annual, or more frequently.

Of course, when a plugged filter is encountered, the other question is, "Why is it plugged?" Is there contamination in the tank that needs to be cleaned out? Is some sealant material becoming dislodged? Is the fiberglass disentegrating? It bears examining the plugged filter to try and find out.

A couple of other things regarding filters bear mentioning:
a.. There have been reports that some paper-element automotive filters do not stand up well to aviation fuel. Unfortunately I cannot narrow down that statement any further.
b.. I have seen the cylindrical glass filters installed upside down (so the flow is in the wrong direction). If that is the case, the filter element can come loose inside the glass cylinder and block the output port (which is really the input).
Take it for what it's worth--free advice!!

Mike Huffman





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links






Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

Jim,

At the risk of starting a firestorm, I believe if this aircraft had a
gascolator he may not have had a problem. Here is what a drop of fuel goes
through to get to my engine:

Main tank > glass filter > facet pump > header tank > gascolator > last
chance carburetor inlet filter > carb.



The glass filter is visible to me and when I turn on the header pump I can
visually check fuel flow. I replace it during my annual condition
inspection.



Also, there is a gray plastic snap-on lock which is available for these
filters. It attaches to the outside of the filter and prevents the filter
from unscrewing itself.



What was clogging the filter? Was it clogged from the inside or outside?
If it was goo, rather than particulate matter, he may still have problems.



See you at OSH?



Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:08 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Alert! Alert!



Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo


John ten
 

Jim,

thanks for the heads up. And lest anyone think that that was an
isolated case I can confirm that I had the same thing happen on my
first flight in my Q .Fortunately it happened in the down wind ( at
500') and I developed some serious power in my left arm pumping the
little bugger into a position for a glide approach.

The cause was finally traced to "rubble" from a previous tank repair
being retained in the tank by the screen mesh over the tank drain.
This was in spite of several tank volumes of flushing prior to first
flight. I had previously detected some hesitation just after
takeoff on runway hops. The solution required cutting into the tank
(which in itself generated more garbage) and the re design of the
filter inlet housing to enlarge the ports to give it more tolerance
for partial blockage.

John





--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"
<logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check
them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and
can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot
that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage
to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters
within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the
filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced
the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo


Paul Spackman
 

I change both fuel filters with each oil change (every twenty-five
hours). I have been thru the restricted filter early in flight
testing. The filter will not appear plugged, to bad they are clear,
I reported this in QTalk in 1997.

Paul Spackman

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"
<logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check
them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and
can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot
that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage
to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters
within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the
filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced
the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo


Jim Patillo
 

No problem Sam,

The plane did have a gascolator with an enclosed "stone looking"
filter mounted on the firewall. That filter also had a lot of crap
in it, though not plugged.

His fuel stream flow is; header, filter, fuel valve, gascolator,
carb. The point I'm trying to make is these glass fuel filters
(which I've used for 760 hours without incident) can have totally
plugged filters that appear to be clean visually but won't pass the
old blow test. As we all know, its imperative these filters be
physically checked on a regular basis by blowing thru them.

Regards,

Your Friend
Jim Patillo N46JP Q200

P.S. You've finally come up with a good use for the gascolator on a
Q, congratulations! Use it as a filter. The question is: is it
worth risking a vapor lock on a hot day if its not cooled properly?
ITS ALL A TRADE OFF!



--- In Q-LIST@..., "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@...> wrote:

Jim,

At the risk of starting a firestorm, I believe if this aircraft
had a
gascolator he may not have had a problem. Here is what a drop of
fuel goes
through to get to my engine:

Main tank > glass filter > facet pump > header tank > gascolator >
last
chance carburetor inlet filter > carb.



The glass filter is visible to me and when I turn on the header
pump I can
visually check fuel flow. I replace it during my annual condition
inspection.



Also, there is a gray plastic snap-on lock which is available for
these
filters. It attaches to the outside of the filter and prevents
the filter
from unscrewing itself.



What was clogging the filter? Was it clogged from the inside or
outside?
If it was goo, rather than particulate matter, he may still have
problems.



See you at OSH?



Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On
Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:08 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Alert! Alert!



Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check
them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and
can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot
that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage
to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters
within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the
filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced
the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Jim Patillo
 

Thanks for the input Paul. I'm sure this failure has already
happened too many times.

Jim P.

P.S. Sam, it was gray dust looking material. I will see you at OSH
Monday AM.



--- In Q-LIST@..., "Paul Spackman" <wypaul2001@...>
wrote:

I change both fuel filters with each oil change (every twenty-five
hours). I have been thru the restricted filter early in flight
testing. The filter will not appear plugged, to bad they are
clear,
I reported this in QTalk in 1997.

Paul Spackman

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jim Patillo"
<logistics_engineering@> wrote:

Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should
check
them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small
and
can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a
pilot
that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead
stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No
damage
to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't
say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible.
The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters
within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the
filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once
replaced
the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo


Ron <rondefly@...>
 

Charlie, I have the Fram G3 in my installation, it will be easy to change
the filter anytime.


<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page9.html>


Ron Triano `°º¤ø, ‹(•¿•)›

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html







_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
oneskydog@...
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 4:04 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Alert! Alert!




In a message dated 7/14/2006 11:27:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineeri <mailto:logistics_engineering%40msn.com> ng@...
writes:

Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage to
either the pilot or plane.

Don't check them, Chuck them in the trash. If you need a see thru filter use

a Fram G3 but not in the engine compartment. They have about 30 times more
filter surface area. Those custom car filters have taken down more than one
airplane.

Regards,

One Sky Dog

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Re the final fuel plumbing I learned the hard way that the filter should be
last in line before the carb. If any of the other connections are disturbed
, opened, remade there is the chance of small fragments of sealer going
straight into the main jet. The filter last in line solves that problem.

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Saturday, 15 July 2006 10:44 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Alert! Alert!




No problem Sam,

The plane did have a gascolator with an enclosed "stone looking"
filter mounted on the firewall. That filter also had a lot of crap
in it, though not plugged.

His fuel stream flow is; header, filter, fuel valve, gascolator,
carb. The point I'm trying to make is these glass fuel filters
(which I've used for 760 hours without incident) can have totally
plugged filters that appear to be clean visually but won't pass the
old blow test. As we all know, its imperative these filters be
physically checked on a regular basis by blowing thru them.

Regards,

Your Friend
Jim Patillo N46JP Q200

P.S. You've finally come up with a good use for the gascolator on a
Q, congratulations! Use it as a filter. The question is: is it
worth risking a vapor lock on a hot day if its not cooled properly?
ITS ALL A TRADE OFF!


--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Sam
Hoskins" <shoskins@...> wrote:

Jim,

At the risk of starting a firestorm, I believe if this aircraft
had a
gascolator he may not have had a problem. Here is what a drop of
fuel goes
through to get to my engine:

Main tank > glass filter > facet pump > header tank > gascolator >
last
chance carburetor inlet filter > carb.



The glass filter is visible to me and when I turn on the header
pump I can
visually check fuel flow. I replace it during my annual condition
inspection.



Also, there is a gray plastic snap-on lock which is available for
these
filters. It attaches to the outside of the filter and prevents
the filter
from unscrewing itself.



What was clogging the filter? Was it clogged from the inside or
outside?
If it was goo, rather than particulate matter, he may still have
problems.



See you at OSH?



Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On
Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:08 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Alert! Alert!



Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check
them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and
can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot
that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage
to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters
within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the
filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced
the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo







Dave King <KingDWS@...>
 

Reg That sounds like the atypical failure mod with those types of filters.
What happens is the paper is quite excellent at filtering out water as well as
junks bugs and small furry animals. When the water hits the paper the gas flowing
around it will cause it to form a emulsion, which cannot flow through the filter
an blocks some of the flow. As time goes on the flow will be blocked slowly over
the entire filter area to the point where it cannot flow enough to feed the engine
enough gas to keep flying.

Parallel filers have been shown to only marginally extend the useful life before
both can block. If you are forced to use ethanol gas then you are in more trouble as
it can potentially absorb much more water. Which can kill the filter much more quickly.

These have not been allowed for some time here an any inspector will more than insist
on a gascolator because of the accidents these things have caused.

Dave

On 14-Jul-06, at 11:07 AM, Jim Patillo wrote:
Add on to Group I have had one gradually block off in my DRAGONFLY I
lost power and made Emergancy landing. When I looked at filter it
looked like new from outside .it din't look blocked but it was.These
are very dangerous filters
Reg Clarke /Q2 N624JC
Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links






Michael Huffman <mikehuffman@...>
 

Yes, I've seen the internal shaft drilled/cotter pinned and I've also seen a tie wrap around it to hold the element in place.

Thanks, Earnest


David Posey <dlposey-atlanta@...>
 

Jim Patillo wrote:

Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo

Not flying yet, but have an Oberg filter just before the carb. This filter has a stainless steel 60 mircon screen as the filter media and is a take a part unit. Marketed by Holley and sold thru auto outlets. It is rather pricey but screen is reusable. Will bring one along to OSK for show and tell.

David Posey
triQ200