Fuel Tanks


britmcman99
 

Allen:

I am glad you cleared up how much you happen to weigh. Not too many of us
in the US of A would know that 9 stones would be about 144 pounds. Your tank
idea is interesting. Consider the different physical properties of materials
such as the flexibility, ductility, thermal expansion, etc. when attempting
to combine them in a fuel system/aircraft.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford


britmcman99
 

Okay:

126 pounds for 9 stones. Fine.

Cheers,

Phil


Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the idea that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is not really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild


Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

Are you making your own aluminium tanks Darrell Daniels

----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Farr" <afarr@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I have had the same thoughts, and after lots of excellent advice from various Q-Listers I am going for aluminium for my main tank. I will leave some of the composite tank structure in place (front/sides/centre) so as to not compromise structural integrity. It will weigh more but I'm only 57kg (9 st) so I don't care.
Allan F
Q2

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:19
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links











Allan Farr <afarr@...>
 

I have had the same thoughts, and after lots of excellent advice from various Q-Listers I am going for aluminium for my main tank. I will leave some of the composite tank structure in place (front/sides/centre) so as to not compromise structural integrity. It will weigh more but I'm only 57kg (9 st) so I don't care.
Allan F
Q2

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:19
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild


Allan Farr <afarr@...>
 

I'm going to cut & shape the aluminium myself, but may get it professionally welded (& pressure tested)
I will then reconstruct the composite seat over the top so that the end result will be an aluminium tank encapsulated in the original style composite structure. Damian Gregory also recommends a bladder.
Allan F
Q2

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:41
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


Are you making your own aluminium tanks Darrell Daniels
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Farr" <afarr@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

>I have had the same thoughts, and after lots of excellent advice from
>various Q-Listers I am going for aluminium for my main tank. I will leave
>some of the composite tank structure in place (front/sides/centre) so as to
>not compromise structural integrity. It will weigh more but I'm only 57kg
>(9 st) so I don't care.
> Allan F
> Q2
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Darrell Daniels
> To: Q-LIST@...
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:19
> Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks
>
>
> I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the
> idea
> that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I
> also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
> people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is
> not
> really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to
> burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
> The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
> about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
> places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
> ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


bfarnam@...
 

Here's one more data point for you Darrell. My Q200 has been flying for more than 8 years using auto gas when I am at home and 100LL away on a trip. My tanks are made of Safe-T-Poxy. I have also had a sample of the tank material soaking in auto gas with MTBE for about 7 years. There is no sign of softening or other problem. The main source of leakage that I have seen is into the fuselage layup which typically had a lot of pinholes. Those can be sealed several ways during construction. Either sand and recoat with a fairly heavy layer of epoxy, or some have added another layer of glass. Mine is sealed with just an extra coating of epoxy. Done properly, the epoxy tanks won't leak.

Bob F.
N200QK

----- Original Message ----
From: Darrell Daniels <log@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:19:03 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild


Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

An aluminum tank makes absolutely no sense to me. What problem are you
trying to fix? Everything is there in the plans to get it right.

To keep the tank from developing pinhole leaks, paint on a couple extra
coats of epoxy, it's no big deal.

Geez - where do these wacky ideas come from?

Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Allan Farr
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:11 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



I'm going to cut & shape the aluminium myself, but may get it professionally
welded (& pressure tested)
I will then reconstruct the composite seat over the top so that the end
result will be an aluminium tank encapsulated in the original style
composite structure. Damian Gregory also recommends a bladder.
Allan F
Q2

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:41
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

Are you making your own aluminium tanks Darrell Daniels
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Farr" <afarr@.... <mailto:afarr%40xtra.co.nz> nz>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have had the same thoughts, and after lots of excellent advice from
various Q-Listers I am going for aluminium for my main tank. I will leave
some of the composite tank structure in place (front/sides/centre) so as to
not compromise structural integrity. It will weigh more but I'm only 57kg
(9 st) so I don't care.
Allan F
Q2

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:19
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the
idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is
not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild









Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links











Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

The archives will also show that "sloshing compound" is a big NO-NO.
Sloshing compound is for metal tanks, and I suspect a poor application, even
there.

Like Bob F. said, paint on some extra epoxy. The standard epoxies ARE fuel
resistant.

I also used auto fuel for many years, now using 100LL exclusively. No fuel
degradation anywhere. I also use Urethane (Tygothane) fuel lines inside the
cockpit. Don't use the clear vinyl lines, they harden over a short time.

Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:19 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the idea

that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is not

really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild


Dave Richardson <dave@...>
 

I recall hearing that Rutan and the EZ guys went to the very light
fiberglass cloth like they use on RC models to give the extra epoxy
coats on the inside of the tank some structure and to reduce the number
of pin holes. Perhaps Terry Crouch can comment on this or some of the
other guys familiar with the EZ's.



Dave Richardson



_____

From: Sam Hoskins [mailto:shoskins@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:48 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



An aluminum tank makes absolutely no sense to me. What problem are you
trying to fix? Everything is there in the plans to get it right.

To keep the tank from developing pinhole leaks, paint on a couple extra
coats of epoxy, it's no big deal.

Geez - where do these wacky ideas come from?

Sam

_____

From: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Allan Farr
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:11 AM
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I'm going to cut & shape the aluminium myself, but may get it
professionally
welded (& pressure tested)
I will then reconstruct the composite seat over the top so that the end
result will be an aluminium tank encapsulated in the original style
composite structure. Damian Gregory also recommends a bladder.
Allan F
Q2

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:41
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

Are you making your own aluminium tanks Darrell Daniels
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Farr" < afarr@... <mailto:afarr%40xtra.co> .
<mailto:afarr%40xtra.co.nz> nz>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have had the same thoughts, and after lots of excellent advice from
various Q-Listers I am going for aluminium for my main tank. I will
leave
some of the composite tank structure in place (front/sides/centre) so
as to

not compromise structural integrity. It will weigh more but I'm only
57kg
(9 st) so I don't care.
Allan F
Q2

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:19
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with
the
idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane
. I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which
is
not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want
to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any
other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q
rebuild





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb < http://www.quickiebuilders.org
<http://www.quickiebuilders.org> > uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

I did not build my airplane so what would be your recommendation Would you just put the auto fuel in and fly or cut some holes in the top of the tank and seal it with something. Thanks Darrell

----- Original Message -----
From: <bfarnam@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


Here's one more data point for you Darrell. My Q200 has been flying for more than 8 years using auto gas when I am at home and 100LL away on a trip. My tanks are made of Safe-T-Poxy. I have also had a sample of the tank material soaking in auto gas with MTBE for about 7 years. There is no sign of softening or other problem. The main source of leakage that I have seen is into the fuselage layup which typically had a lot of pinholes. Those can be sealed several ways during construction. Either sand and recoat with a fairly heavy layer of epoxy, or some have added another layer of glass. Mine is sealed with just an extra coating of epoxy. Done properly, the epoxy tanks won't leak.

Bob F.
N200QK


----- Original Message ----
From: Darrell Daniels <log@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:19:03 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild







Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links










Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

This is jut one of those things the bugs me. You cannot see under the tank to see if it leaked or not , I am glad to hear that some of the guys flew with auto gas for awhile and had no problems. I have also learned from this discussion that it is not the epoxy that the fuel actually ate through but pinholes were the problem if I understand correctly . Darrell Daniels

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Richardson" <dave@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:30 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I recall hearing that Rutan and the EZ guys went to the very light
fiberglass cloth like they use on RC models to give the extra epoxy
coats on the inside of the tank some structure and to reduce the number
of pin holes. Perhaps Terry Crouch can comment on this or some of the
other guys familiar with the EZ's.



Dave Richardson



_____

From: Sam Hoskins [mailto:shoskins@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:48 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



An aluminum tank makes absolutely no sense to me. What problem are you
trying to fix? Everything is there in the plans to get it right.

To keep the tank from developing pinhole leaks, paint on a couple extra
coats of epoxy, it's no big deal.

Geez - where do these wacky ideas come from?

Sam

_____

From: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Allan Farr
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:11 AM
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I'm going to cut & shape the aluminium myself, but may get it
professionally
welded (& pressure tested)
I will then reconstruct the composite seat over the top so that the end
result will be an aluminium tank encapsulated in the original style
composite structure. Damian Gregory also recommends a bladder.
Allan F
Q2

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:41
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

Are you making your own aluminium tanks Darrell Daniels
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Farr" < afarr@... <mailto:afarr%40xtra.co> .
<mailto:afarr%40xtra.co.nz> nz>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have had the same thoughts, and after lots of excellent advice from
various Q-Listers I am going for aluminium for my main tank. I will
leave
some of the composite tank structure in place (front/sides/centre) so
as to

not compromise structural integrity. It will weigh more but I'm only
57kg
(9 st) so I don't care.
Allan F
Q2

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:19
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with
the
idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane
. I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which
is
not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want
to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any
other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q
rebuild








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb < http://www.quickiebuilders.org
<http://www.quickiebuilders.org> > uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links
















Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links










Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

Darrell, if the tank is already built, why don't you do a manometer test on
it to see if it leaks. If it does, cut a hole in the top and do the wet
epoxy layer as was described on this list. The manometer test is very
sensitive and will detect the smallest leak. Then you can do the same test
for pitot and static lines. I had to do that very thing on my main tank and
when I built my aux tank did a wet layup and had no problem passing the
manometer test.



Ron

Sonerai: doing runway hopping, soon to go all the way after the short delay.



<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:00 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



I did not build my airplane so what would be your recommendation Would you
just put the auto fuel in and fly or cut some holes in the top of the tank
and seal it with something. Thanks Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: <bfarnam@pacbell. <mailto:bfarnam%40pacbell.net> net>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

Here's one more data point for you Darrell. My Q200 has been flying for
more than 8 years using auto gas when I am at home and 100LL away on a
trip. My tanks are made of Safe-T-Poxy. I have also had a sample of the
tank material soaking in auto gas with MTBE for about 7 years. There is no
sign of softening or other problem. The main source of leakage that I have
seen is into the fuselage layup which typically had a lot of pinholes.
Those can be sealed several ways during construction. Either sand and
recoat with a fairly heavy layer of epoxy, or some have added another
layer of glass. Mine is sealed with just an extra coating of epoxy. Done
properly, the epoxy tanks won't leak.

Bob F.
N200QK


----- Original Message ----
From: Darrell Daniels <log@... <mailto:log%40nemr.net> >
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:19:03 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the
idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is
not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links










Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

That is putting the amout of pressure in the tank that the gas would amount to and see if it leaks. Darrell Daniels

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Triano" <rondefly@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


Darrell, if the tank is already built, why don't you do a manometer test on
it to see if it leaks. If it does, cut a hole in the top and do the wet
epoxy layer as was described on this list. The manometer test is very
sensitive and will detect the smallest leak. Then you can do the same test
for pitot and static lines. I had to do that very thing on my main tank and
when I built my aux tank did a wet layup and had no problem passing the
manometer test.



Ron

Sonerai: doing runway hopping, soon to go all the way after the short delay.



<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:00 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



I did not build my airplane so what would be your recommendation Would you
just put the auto fuel in and fly or cut some holes in the top of the tank
and seal it with something. Thanks Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: <bfarnam@pacbell. <mailto:bfarnam%40pacbell.net> net>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

Here's one more data point for you Darrell. My Q200 has been flying for
more than 8 years using auto gas when I am at home and 100LL away on a
trip. My tanks are made of Safe-T-Poxy. I have also had a sample of the
tank material soaking in auto gas with MTBE for about 7 years. There is no
sign of softening or other problem. The main source of leakage that I have
seen is into the fuselage layup which typically had a lot of pinholes.
Those can be sealed several ways during construction. Either sand and
recoat with a fairly heavy layer of epoxy, or some have added another
layer of glass. Mine is sealed with just an extra coating of epoxy. Done
properly, the epoxy tanks won't leak.

Bob F.
N200QK


----- Original Message ----
From: Darrell Daniels <log@... <mailto:log%40nemr.net> >
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:19:03 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the
idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is
not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild







Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links
















Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links











Webcave
 

Look at all the Ezes flying around with composite tanks and no problems.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: afarr@...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I have had the same thoughts, and after lots of excellent advice from various Q-Listers I am going for aluminium for my main tank. I will leave some of the composite tank structure in place (front/sides/centre) so as to not compromise structural integrity. It will weigh more but I'm only 57kg (9 st) so I don't care.
Allan F
Q2

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:19
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild





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James Doyle <jdoyle1941@...>
 

Guys, When I built my Q I sanded the entire area where the tank was to be and put one layer of "B" glass on extending 1 inch beyond the tank and saturated it with safetypoxy. If the tank top is sealed with a liberal amount of epoxy and bedded well in flox. IT WILL NOT leak. I had 900+ hours with no leaks and I used auto fuel when ever possible. Sam is right, follow the plans.

Jim Doyle

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Richardson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:30 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I recall hearing that Rutan and the EZ guys went to the very light
fiberglass cloth like they use on RC models to give the extra epoxy
coats on the inside of the tank some structure and to reduce the number
of pin holes. Perhaps Terry Crouch can comment on this or some of the
other guys familiar with the EZ's.

Dave Richardson

_____

From: Sam Hoskins [mailto:shoskins@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:48 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

An aluminum tank makes absolutely no sense to me. What problem are you
trying to fix? Everything is there in the plans to get it right.

To keep the tank from developing pinhole leaks, paint on a couple extra
coats of epoxy, it's no big deal.

Geez - where do these wacky ideas come from?

Sam

_____

From: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Allan Farr
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:11 AM
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I'm going to cut & shape the aluminium myself, but may get it
professionally
welded (& pressure tested)
I will then reconstruct the composite seat over the top so that the end
result will be an aluminium tank encapsulated in the original style
composite structure. Damian Gregory also recommends a bladder.
Allan F
Q2

----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Daniels
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:41
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

Are you making your own aluminium tanks Darrell Daniels
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Farr" < afarr@... <mailto:afarr%40xtra.co> .
<mailto:afarr%40xtra.co.nz> nz>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

>I have had the same thoughts, and after lots of excellent advice from
>various Q-Listers I am going for aluminium for my main tank. I will
leave
>some of the composite tank structure in place (front/sides/centre) so
as to

>not compromise structural integrity. It will weigh more but I'm only
57kg
>(9 st) so I don't care.
> Allan F
> Q2
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Darrell Daniels
> To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:19
> Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks
>
>
> I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with
the
> idea
> that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane
. I
> also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
> people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which
is
> not
> really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want
to
> burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
> The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
> about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
> places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any
other
> ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q
rebuild
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickieb < http://www.quickiebuilders.org
<http://www.quickiebuilders.org> > uilders.org
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>










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Bob Farnam <bfarnam@...>
 

If nothing extra was done by the original builder, there is some chance that
it will leak. If you can't find out what was done during construction, then
I guess my next step would be to do a long term leakdown test. This can be
done by sealing up all of the openings except the supply line to the pump.
Then put an inflated balloon on the supply line and let it sit for 24 hours
to see if any volume is lost. Check all the seal points with soapy water. If
it is tight, go fly. If not, cut some holes and at least paint on more epoxy
inside. Unfortunately, the internal baffles mean that you will have to cut
holes into each section between the baffles. Hope that it passes the
leakdown test. Understand that a tiny amount of leakage into the fuse foam
won't hurt the foam, which is fuelproof. Only the Styrafoam in the wings is
at risk of dissolving. I recommend against any sealant except epoxy. I have
heard (but don't know firsthand) that some of the elastomer sealants are
attacked by auto fuel. Others on this list may know about that.
Incidentally, EZ-Poxy is supposed to be the modern equivalent of
Safe-T-Poxy. My 7.5 gallon aux. tank is made of EZ-Poxy and is fine after
about 7 years.

Good luck!

Bob F.
N200QK

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:00 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I did not build my airplane so what would be your recommendation Would you
just put the auto fuel in and fly or cut some holes in the top of the tank
and seal it with something. Thanks Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: <bfarnam@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

> Here's one more data point for you Darrell. My Q200 has been flying for
> more than 8 years using auto gas when I am at home and 100LL away on a
> trip. My tanks are made of Safe-T-Poxy. I have also had a sample of the
> tank material soaking in auto gas with MTBE for about 7 years. There is
no
> sign of softening or other problem. The main source of leakage that I
have
> seen is into the fuselage layup which typically had a lot of pinholes.
> Those can be sealed several ways during construction. Either sand and
> recoat with a fairly heavy layer of epoxy, or some have added another
> layer of glass. Mine is sealed with just an extra coating of epoxy. Done
> properly, the epoxy tanks won't leak.
>
> Bob F.
> N200QK
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Darrell Daniels <log@...>
> To: Q-LIST@...
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:19:03 PM
> Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks
>
> I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the
> idea
> that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane .
I
> also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
> people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is
> not
> really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want
to
> burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
> The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
> about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
> places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
> ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q
rebuild
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Bob Farnam <bfarnam@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
Sam Hoskins
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 3:53 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


The archives will also show that "sloshing compound" is a big NO-NO.
Sloshing compound is for metal tanks, and I suspect a poor application,
even
there.

Like Bob F. said, paint on some extra epoxy. The standard epoxies ARE fuel
resistant.

I also used auto fuel for many years, now using 100LL exclusively. No fuel
degradation anywhere. I also use Urethane (Tygothane) fuel lines inside
the
cockpit. Don't use the clear vinyl lines, they harden over a short time.

[Bob Farnam]

Me too! Urethane lines hold up very well.

Bob F.
Sam

_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:19 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the
idea

that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane . I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which is
not

really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild


Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

Thanks Bob,
The leak test is what I was thinking I needed to do. What got me started on this again was I asked why I could not run auto fuel in a VW engine and one of the answers was that someone heard that auto fuel would penetrate the epoxy. I am actual glad for this as I have learned a lot from this thread . My thanks Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Farnam" <bfarnam@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


If nothing extra was done by the original builder, there is some chance that
it will leak. If you can't find out what was done during construction, then
I guess my next step would be to do a long term leakdown test. This can be
done by sealing up all of the openings except the supply line to the pump.
Then put an inflated balloon on the supply line and let it sit for 24 hours
to see if any volume is lost. Check all the seal points with soapy water. If
it is tight, go fly. If not, cut some holes and at least paint on more epoxy
inside. Unfortunately, the internal baffles mean that you will have to cut
holes into each section between the baffles. Hope that it passes the
leakdown test. Understand that a tiny amount of leakage into the fuse foam
won't hurt the foam, which is fuelproof. Only the Styrafoam in the wings is
at risk of dissolving. I recommend against any sealant except epoxy. I have
heard (but don't know firsthand) that some of the elastomer sealants are
attacked by auto fuel. Others on this list may know about that.
Incidentally, EZ-Poxy is supposed to be the modern equivalent of
Safe-T-Poxy. My 7.5 gallon aux. tank is made of EZ-Poxy and is fine after
about 7 years.

Good luck!

Bob F.
N200QK
-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:00 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I did not build my airplane so what would be your recommendation Would you
just put the auto fuel in and fly or cut some holes in the top of the tank
and seal it with something. Thanks Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: <bfarnam@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

> Here's one more data point for you Darrell. My Q200 has been flying for
> more than 8 years using auto gas when I am at home and 100LL away on a
> trip. My tanks are made of Safe-T-Poxy. I have also had a sample of the
> tank material soaking in auto gas with MTBE for about 7 years. There is
no
> sign of softening or other problem. The main source of leakage that I
have
> seen is into the fuselage layup which typically had a lot of pinholes.
> Those can be sealed several ways during construction. Either sand and
> recoat with a fairly heavy layer of epoxy, or some have added another
> layer of glass. Mine is sealed with just an extra coating of epoxy.
Done
> properly, the epoxy tanks won't leak.
>
> Bob F.
> N200QK
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Darrell Daniels <log@...>
> To: Q-LIST@...
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:19:03 PM
> Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks
>
> I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the
> idea
> that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane .
I
> also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
> people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which
is
> not
> really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want
to
> burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
> The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
> about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
> places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any
other
> ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q
rebuild
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>









Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links











Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:02 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



Thanks Bob,
The leak test is what I was thinking I needed to do. What got me
started on this again was I asked why I could not run auto fuel in a VW
engine and one of the answers was that someone heard that auto fuel would
penetrate the epoxy. I am actual glad for this as I have learned a lot from
this thread . My thanks Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Farnam" <bfarnam@pacbell. <mailto:bfarnam%40pacbell.net> net>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

If nothing extra was done by the original builder, there is some chance
that
it will leak. If you can't find out what was done during construction,
then
I guess my next step would be to do a long term leakdown test. This can be
done by sealing up all of the openings except the supply line to the pump.
Then put an inflated balloon on the supply line and let it sit for 24
hours
to see if any volume is lost. Check all the seal points with soapy water.
If
it is tight, go fly. If not, cut some holes and at least paint on more
epoxy
inside. Unfortunately, the internal baffles mean that you will have to cut
holes into each section between the baffles. Hope that it passes the
leakdown test. Understand that a tiny amount of leakage into the fuse foam
won't hurt the foam, which is fuelproof. Only the Styrafoam in the wings
is
at risk of dissolving. I recommend against any sealant except epoxy. I
have
heard (but don't know firsthand) that some of the elastomer sealants are
attacked by auto fuel. Others on this list may know about that.
Incidentally, EZ-Poxy is supposed to be the modern equivalent of
Safe-T-Poxy. My 7.5 gallon aux. tank is made of EZ-Poxy and is fine after
about 7 years.

Good luck!

Bob F.
N200QK
-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com]On Behalf
Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:00 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I did not build my airplane so what would be your recommendation Would
you
just put the auto fuel in and fly or cut some holes in the top of the
tank
and seal it with something. Thanks Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: <bfarnam@pacbell. <mailto:bfarnam%40pacbell.net> net>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

Here's one more data point for you Darrell. My Q200 has been flying for
more than 8 years using auto gas when I am at home and 100LL away on a
trip. My tanks are made of Safe-T-Poxy. I have also had a sample of the
tank material soaking in auto gas with MTBE for about 7 years. There is
no
sign of softening or other problem. The main source of leakage that I
have
seen is into the fuselage layup which typically had a lot of pinholes.
Those can be sealed several ways during construction. Either sand and
recoat with a fairly heavy layer of epoxy, or some have added another
layer of glass. Mine is sealed with just an extra coating of epoxy.
Done
properly, the epoxy tanks won't leak.

Bob F.
N200QK


----- Original Message ----
From: Darrell Daniels <log@... <mailto:log%40nemr.net> >
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:19:03 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the
idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane .
I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which
is
not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want
to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any
other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q
rebuild








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


















Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links