Date
1 - 7 of 7
2008 FOD TW Fly-In
MartinErni@...
Jeff,
That was a well thought out and precise description of the important criteria for our fly ins. I agree with it 100%. If we can all agree on the criteria then finding the best airport will be a simple elimination process. Then select the best of the airports that remain. Earnest
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Letempt, Jeffrey MR <jeffrey.letempt@...>
TW'ers,
I think there are a lot of great ideas being exchanged on the lists about the fly-in. Organizing the fly-in takes a lot of effort and although it is possible to organize the fly-in from a remote location, it is not something I would highly recommend the first year at a new location. This means that the fly-in really should be relatively close to the organizer's home. There are so many variables that can drastically change the event overnight. A simple fly-in where you can reserve a room at a buffet style restaurant (pay as you go, no firm numbers needed in advance) for the awards banquet could be organized remotely, but if you are have to select a caterer and organize a banquet hall that complicates things. I am a HUGE supporter of moving the fly-in around once in a while. I am not suggesting that we need to find a new "perfect" location every year, but I think moving the event a few hundred miles once in a while has a positive impact. I appreciate the comments about the smaller TW fly-ins. I seriously doubt that I will probably ever attempt to fly my VW powered Dragonfly to the west coast for a weekend fly-in. I really do not enjoy long cross country flights and my wife does not enjoy flying in my Dragonfly very much. I totally understand someone not wanting to fly a couple thousand miles in the TW airplane just to attend a weekend fly-in. Something like the FOD fly-in where you might have 15-20 TW airplanes is a great opportunity for builders to see finished flying planes, possibly get an orientation flight, and certainly a great place to get some terrific ideas. Even if there was no FOD fly-in in the middle of the US, that would not be justification for me to attend a TW fly-in on the west coast. If anything I think it would give me more incentive to attempt a long cross country flight. I have attended the Illinois TW fly-ins 5 of the last 6 years and was disappointed a couple times due to the low turnout. It has absolutely nothing to do with the person organizing the event; Keith, Steve, and Sam have done a GREAT job organizing these events. I was unable to attend the Casey fly-in this year because of my mom and dad's 50th wedding anniversary. I was sad that I missed the event, in fact I had seriously considered still flying over to Casey but my sisters told me that mom and dad would write me out of the will if I got weathered in or stuck at Casey due to maintenance :<)) I understand the concept of having the fly-in just before or after AirVenture, but I think this could have a negative impact on all but a few potential long distance travelers. Most of us still have jobs and limited funds (or we would probably all have Lancairs IVP's). Several of our attendees volunteer at AirVenture and Sam always participants in the race. The last 2 years I have just spent the last 3-4 days at AirVenture. Unless someone planned on spending the whole week at AirVenture I am not sure how you would schedule the TW fly-in, not to mention what impact this would have on the organizers. Not everyone attends AirVenture, even if they only live a couple hundred miles (or less) from OSH. I understand Jim's frustration about spend lots of time organizing a fly-in and then no one shows up. It is very stressful spending lots of time (and money) and committing to contracts only to have the weather keep most of the people from flying to the event. MOST of the pilots who can not fly-in due to weather or maintenance would just tell the organizer to keep their registration fees so the organizer would not take it in the shorts. Of course most of the people who were going to drive or fly commercially show up and are disappointed to see only a few TW airplanes. I guess this is the nature of the beast and of course there is nothing we can do about the weather. Me, Doug, and Spud have been talking behind the scenes about next year's event since a couple days after the fly-in. I proposed 2 sets of criteria to Doug and Spud a few hours before that was suggested by David on the Q list (I guess great minds think alike, right David?). In order to select a fly-in location I think it is important to establish a list of "must have" and "should have" needs. I will propose a few things to consider: MUST o Be generally located in the middle of the USA o Have a fly-in friendly airport manager (critical to the success of the fly-in) o Have 4000' x 75' or larger runway o Have hangar space for 20 TW airplanes o Have space to conduct forums o Have hotels and restaurants reasonably close o Have reasonable access via automobile (close to interstate highway preferable) o Have little or no cost to use the facility SHOULD o Have a crosswind runway o Have parallel taxiways o Be an uncontrolled airport clear of Class B airspace o Allow camping at the airport o Have shower facilities at the airport o Have reasonable access to a major commercial airport From looking at the MO airport directory there is a total of ZERO airports which meet all the "must" and "should" criteria that I listed above, there are 3 or 4 that get close. There are just not many large airports (2 runways that are 4000x75), out in the country, that are close to a big city, that do not have a tower, but have lots of hotels close by, that would let us use their big empty hangars for free....sounds like an impossible airport to find. I would be willing to remotely organize the fly-in under the right set of circumstances, but a couple of organizers splitting responsibilities (and sharing information) would probably be easier. Having some organizer depth would certainly be a good thing....what would happen if the only event organizer were to get sick and not be able to attend? Maybe one person could handle the registrations and promotions, one person could be the airport liaison and coordinate for the forum space and hangar space, one person could handle the awards, one person could handle the awards dinner....you get my drift, some of the tasks are easy and one person could do more than one task. Establish one person as the head honcho and split up the responsibilities. Obviously, it would be helpful if someone local could handle the airport liaison duties and be the honest broker. You would never know about the facility unless someone personally talked to the airport manager/FBO and he/she was fly-in friendly. I spent a couple hours the other night looking for potential airports and found several that look pretty good on paper. Ada, OK - KADH Beatrice, NE - KBIE Worthington, MN - KOTG Mason City, IA - KMCW Ankeny, IA - KIKV Fort Dodge, IA - KFOD Ames, IA - KAMW Ottumwa, IA - KOTM Southeast Iowa, Burlington, IA - KBRL Keokuk, IA - KEOK Iowa City, IA - KIOW Muscatine, IA - KMUT Jonesboro, AR - KJBR Perry Lefors, Pampa, TX - KPPA Hutchinson County Airport, Borger, TX - KBGD Liberal, KS - KLBL North Platte, NE - KLBF Plainview, TX - KPVW Hope, AR - KM18 Stuttgart, AR - KSGT Conway, AR - KCWS Coffeyville, KS - KCFV El Dorado, KS - KEQA Man they have some nice airports in IA!! I have created an Excel spreadsheet that contains basic lodging information (number of hotels, distance from the airport to the hotels, and basic $ range), distance to major commercial airport, possible shower facilities, and city population. Obviously if the "perfect" airport is not there, the "must have" list criteria will have to be prioritized. It is more important to have a suitable runway than to be close to a commercial airport. I have not really looked at IL or WI yet, this is maybe getting on the far edge of the eastern limit. IMO, the further east and north we go we will have potentially fewer fly-in participants due to where the flying TW aircraft are generally located. There are a couple airports that really look PERFECT on paper (KIKV in particular). If you have an airport that you think would be a great location for the next fly-in, please let me know. The airport has to meet the criteria listed on the "must" list. I recommend that we transfer this discussion to the TW fly-in list. The TW fly-in list on Yahoo is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/> I am looking forward to next years fly-in!!! Thanks, Jeff Dragonfly MK-IIH - N41GK TW FOD Event Organizer 2003, 2004, 2005
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Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
Jeff, I agree with your must have list for the most part, For those of us
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
that are on either coast I would like to see it near a large commercial airport so we can fly in commercially as long as there is a chance of bad weather. That would help those flying their creations also. I don't think if it is not exactly in the center makes much difference for those flying commercially but should be close to the event. These flyin's started with the Dflys and Qs, If there are some tandum wingers that would like to attend they should be welcome and leave it at that, why in the world would you want to move this discussion to their list? They are the visitors. This thing about a hangar large enough to house all our planes is nice but should not be priority 1. Priority 1 needs to be a indoor place or hangar we could have our discussions/or whatever, on field restaurant that will also feed us individually for the evening feed, I agree with most of the other items on your list. Ron Triano South Lake Tahoe, CA Sonerai there and Q200 gettin there
-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Letempt, Jeffrey MR Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:57 PM To: TandemWingFly_In (TandemWingFly_In@...); 'Q-LIST@...'; 'Dragonflylist@...' Subject: [Q-LIST] 2008 FOD TW Fly-In TW'ers, I think there are a lot of great ideas being exchanged on the lists about the fly-in. Organizing the fly-in takes a lot of effort and although it is possible to organize the fly-in from a remote location, it is not something I would highly recommend the first year at a new location. This means that the fly-in really should be relatively close to the organizer's home. There are so many variables that can drastically change the event overnight. A simple fly-in where you can reserve a room at a buffet style restaurant (pay as you go, no firm numbers needed in advance) for the awards banquet could be organized remotely, but if you are have to select a caterer and organize a banquet hall that complicates things. I am a HUGE supporter of moving the fly-in around once in a while. I am not suggesting that we need to find a new "perfect" location every year, but I think moving the event a few hundred miles once in a while has a positive impact. I appreciate the comments about the smaller TW fly-ins. I seriously doubt that I will probably ever attempt to fly my VW powered Dragonfly to the west coast for a weekend fly-in. I really do not enjoy long cross country flights and my wife does not enjoy flying in my Dragonfly very much. I totally understand someone not wanting to fly a couple thousand miles in the TW airplane just to attend a weekend fly-in. Something like the FOD fly-in where you might have 15-20 TW airplanes is a great opportunity for builders to see finished flying planes, possibly get an orientation flight, and certainly a great place to get some terrific ideas. Even if there was no FOD fly-in in the middle of the US, that would not be justification for me to attend a TW fly-in on the west coast. If anything I think it would give me more incentive to attempt a long cross country flight. I have attended the Illinois TW fly-ins 5 of the last 6 years and was disappointed a couple times due to the low turnout. It has absolutely nothing to do with the person organizing the event; Keith, Steve, and Sam have done a GREAT job organizing these events. I was unable to attend the Casey fly-in this year because of my mom and dad's 50th wedding anniversary. I was sad that I missed the event, in fact I had seriously considered still flying over to Casey but my sisters told me that mom and dad would write me out of the will if I got weathered in or stuck at Casey due to maintenance :<)) I understand the concept of having the fly-in just before or after AirVenture, but I think this could have a negative impact on all but a few potential long distance travelers. Most of us still have jobs and limited funds (or we would probably all have Lancairs IVP's). Several of our attendees volunteer at AirVenture and Sam always participants in the race. The last 2 years I have just spent the last 3-4 days at AirVenture. Unless someone planned on spending the whole week at AirVenture I am not sure how you would schedule the TW fly-in, not to mention what impact this would have on the organizers. Not everyone attends AirVenture, even if they only live a couple hundred miles (or less) from OSH. I understand Jim's frustration about spend lots of time organizing a fly-in and then no one shows up. It is very stressful spending lots of time (and money) and committing to contracts only to have the weather keep most of the people from flying to the event. MOST of the pilots who can not fly-in due to weather or maintenance would just tell the organizer to keep their registration fees so the organizer would not take it in the shorts. Of course most of the people who were going to drive or fly commercially show up and are disappointed to see only a few TW airplanes. I guess this is the nature of the beast and of course there is nothing we can do about the weather. Me, Doug, and Spud have been talking behind the scenes about next year's event since a couple days after the fly-in. I proposed 2 sets of criteria to Doug and Spud a few hours before that was suggested by David on the Q list (I guess great minds think alike, right David?). In order to select a fly-in location I think it is important to establish a list of "must have" and "should have" needs. I will propose a few things to consider: MUST o Be generally located in the middle of the USA o Have a fly-in friendly airport manager (critical to the success of the fly-in) o Have 4000' x 75' or larger runway o Have hangar space for 20 TW airplanes o Have space to conduct forums o Have hotels and restaurants reasonably close o Have reasonable access via automobile (close to interstate highway preferable) o Have little or no cost to use the facility SHOULD o Have a crosswind runway o Have parallel taxiways o Be an uncontrolled airport clear of Class B airspace o Allow camping at the airport o Have shower facilities at the airport o Have reasonable access to a major commercial airport From looking at the MO airport directory there is a total of ZERO airportswhich meet all the "must" and "should" criteria that I listed above, there are 3 or 4 that get close. There are just not many large airports (2 runways that are 4000x75), out in the country, that are close to a big city, that do not have a tower, but have lots of hotels close by, that would let us use their big empty hangars for free....sounds like an impossible airport to find. I would be willing to remotely organize the fly-in under the right set of circumstances, but a couple of organizers splitting responsibilities (and sharing information) would probably be easier. Having some organizer depth would certainly be a good thing....what would happen if the only event organizer were to get sick and not be able to attend? Maybe one person could handle the registrations and promotions, one person could be the airport liaison and coordinate for the forum space and hangar space, one person could handle the awards, one person could handle the awards dinner....you get my drift, some of the tasks are easy and one person could do more than one task. Establish one person as the head honcho and split up the responsibilities. Obviously, it would be helpful if someone local could handle the airport liaison duties and be the honest broker. You would never know about the facility unless someone personally talked to the airport manager/FBO and he/she was fly-in friendly. I spent a couple hours the other night looking for potential airports and found several that look pretty good on paper. Ada, OK - KADH Beatrice, NE - KBIE Worthington, MN - KOTG Mason City, IA - KMCW Ankeny, IA - KIKV Fort Dodge, IA - KFOD Ames, IA - KAMW Ottumwa, IA - KOTM Southeast Iowa, Burlington, IA - KBRL Keokuk, IA - KEOK Iowa City, IA - KIOW Muscatine, IA - KMUT Jonesboro, AR - KJBR Perry Lefors, Pampa, TX - KPPA Hutchinson County Airport, Borger, TX - KBGD Liberal, KS - KLBL North Platte, NE - KLBF Plainview, TX - KPVW Hope, AR - KM18 Stuttgart, AR - KSGT Conway, AR - KCWS Coffeyville, KS - KCFV El Dorado, KS - KEQA Man they have some nice airports in IA!! I have created an Excel spreadsheet that contains basic lodging information (number of hotels, distance from the airport to the hotels, and basic $ range), distance to major commercial airport, possible shower facilities, and city population. Obviously if the "perfect" airport is not there, the "must have" list criteria will have to be prioritized. It is more important to have a suitable runway than to be close to a commercial airport. I have not really looked at IL or WI yet, this is maybe getting on the far edge of the eastern limit. IMO, the further east and north we go we will have potentially fewer fly-in participants due to where the flying TW aircraft are generally located. There are a couple airports that really look PERFECT on paper (KIKV in particular). If you have an airport that you think would be a great location for the next fly-in, please let me know. The airport has to meet the criteria listed on the "must" list. I recommend that we transfer this discussion to the TW fly-in list. The TW fly-in list on Yahoo is located at: http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/> yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/ <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/> yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/> I am looking forward to next years fly-in!!! Thanks, Jeff Dragonfly MK-IIH - N41GK TW FOD Event Organizer 2003, 2004, 2005
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Letempt, Jeffrey MR <jeffrey.letempt@...>
Ron,
Thanks for the comments. In my original airport selection criteria email to Doug and Spud I had reasonable access (within 1 hour drive) from a commercial airport on the "must have" list. But then I thought about how many people actually flew in commercially and think there were only 2 or 3 people this year. I would not want to avoid an otherwise perfect airport just because it was a 2-3 hour drive from a commercial airport. I am missing your point about moving this discussion to the TW fly-in email list. I created the TW fly-in group on Yahoo Groups back in 2003 so we could discuss TW fly-in specific issues. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TandemWingFly_In/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TandemWingFly_In/> This is the perfect list for fly-in planning discussions. There is no spam generated from the group and no unnecessary chatter. Here is my thought process for discussing this stuff on the TW fly-in email list. There are over 700 members on the Dragonfly email list. At the TW fly-in just a few weeks ago there was a total of maybe 30 Dragonfly enthusiasts, so about 4% of the people on the Dragonfly email list attended the fly-in. I would love to see a much larger turnout at the TW FOD fly-in; it takes almost as much work to organize a fly-in for 5 airplanes and 20 people as it would for 50 airplanes and 200 people. If someone wants to help plan the fly-in that is GREAT!!! Of course the fly-in will be thoroughly promoted on all the TW email lists. Jeff _____ From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Ron Triano Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:40 AM To: Q-LIST@... Cc: Dragonflylist@... Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] 2008 FOD TW Fly-In Jeff, I agree with your must have list for the most part, For those of us that are on either coast I would like to see it near a large commercial airport so we can fly in commercially as long as there is a chance of bad weather. That would help those flying their creations also. I don't think if it is not exactly in the center makes much difference for those flying commercially but should be close to the event. These flyin's started with the Dflys and Qs, If there are some tandum wingers that would like to attend they should be welcome and leave it at that, why in the world would you want to move this discussion to their list? They are the visitors. This thing about a hangar large enough to house all our planes is nice but should not be priority 1. Priority 1 needs to be a indoor place or hangar we could have our discussions/or whatever, on field restaurant that will also feed us individually for the evening feed, I agree with most of the other items on your list. Ron Triano South Lake Tahoe, CA Sonerai there and Q200 gettin there -----Original Message----- From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com [mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf Of Letempt, Jeffrey MR Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:57 PM To: TandemWingFly_In (TandemWingFly_ <mailto:TandemWingFly_In%40yahoogroups.com> In@...); 'Q-LIST@yahoogroups <mailto:%27Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> .com'; 'Dragonflylist@ <mailto:%27Dragonflylist%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com' Subject: [Q-LIST] 2008 FOD TW Fly-In TW'ers, I think there are a lot of great ideas being exchanged on the lists about the fly-in. Organizing the fly-in takes a lot of effort and although it is possible to organize the fly-in from a remote location, it is not something I would highly recommend the first year at a new location. This means that the fly-in really should be relatively close to the organizer's home. There are so many variables that can drastically change the event overnight. A simple fly-in where you can reserve a room at a buffet style restaurant (pay as you go, no firm numbers needed in advance) for the awards banquet could be organized remotely, but if you are have to select a caterer and organize a banquet hall that complicates things. I am a HUGE supporter of moving the fly-in around once in a while. I am not suggesting that we need to find a new "perfect" location every year, but I think moving the event a few hundred miles once in a while has a positive impact. I appreciate the comments about the smaller TW fly-ins. I seriously doubt that I will probably ever attempt to fly my VW powered Dragonfly to the west coast for a weekend fly-in. I really do not enjoy long cross country flights and my wife does not enjoy flying in my Dragonfly very much. I totally understand someone not wanting to fly a couple thousand miles in the TW airplane just to attend a weekend fly-in. Something like the FOD fly-in where you might have 15-20 TW airplanes is a great opportunity for builders to see finished flying planes, possibly get an orientation flight, and certainly a great place to get some terrific ideas. Even if there was no FOD fly-in in the middle of the US, that would not be justification for me to attend a TW fly-in on the west coast. If anything I think it would give me more incentive to attempt a long cross country flight. I have attended the Illinois TW fly-ins 5 of the last 6 years and was disappointed a couple times due to the low turnout. It has absolutely nothing to do with the person organizing the event; Keith, Steve, and Sam have done a GREAT job organizing these events. I was unable to attend the Casey fly-in this year because of my mom and dad's 50th wedding anniversary. I was sad that I missed the event, in fact I had seriously considered still flying over to Casey but my sisters told me that mom and dad would write me out of the will if I got weathered in or stuck at Casey due to maintenance :<)) I understand the concept of having the fly-in just before or after AirVenture, but I think this could have a negative impact on all but a few potential long distance travelers. Most of us still have jobs and limited funds (or we would probably all have Lancairs IVP's). Several of our attendees volunteer at AirVenture and Sam always participants in the race. The last 2 years I have just spent the last 3-4 days at AirVenture. Unless someone planned on spending the whole week at AirVenture I am not sure how you would schedule the TW fly-in, not to mention what impact this would have on the organizers. Not everyone attends AirVenture, even if they only live a couple hundred miles (or less) from OSH. I understand Jim's frustration about spend lots of time organizing a fly-in and then no one shows up. It is very stressful spending lots of time (and money) and committing to contracts only to have the weather keep most of the people from flying to the event. MOST of the pilots who can not fly-in due to weather or maintenance would just tell the organizer to keep their registration fees so the organizer would not take it in the shorts. Of course most of the people who were going to drive or fly commercially show up and are disappointed to see only a few TW airplanes. I guess this is the nature of the beast and of course there is nothing we can do about the weather. Me, Doug, and Spud have been talking behind the scenes about next year's event since a couple days after the fly-in. I proposed 2 sets of criteria to Doug and Spud a few hours before that was suggested by David on the Q list (I guess great minds think alike, right David?). In order to select a fly-in location I think it is important to establish a list of "must have" and "should have" needs. I will propose a few things to consider: MUST o Be generally located in the middle of the USA o Have a fly-in friendly airport manager (critical to the success of the fly-in) o Have 4000' x 75' or larger runway o Have hangar space for 20 TW airplanes o Have space to conduct forums o Have hotels and restaurants reasonably close o Have reasonable access via automobile (close to interstate highway preferable) o Have little or no cost to use the facility SHOULD o Have a crosswind runway o Have parallel taxiways o Be an uncontrolled airport clear of Class B airspace o Allow camping at the airport o Have shower facilities at the airport o Have reasonable access to a major commercial airport From looking at the MO airport directory there is a total of ZERO airportswhich meet all the "must" and "should" criteria that I listed above, there are 3 or 4 that get close. There are just not many large airports (2 runways that are 4000x75), out in the country, that are close to a big city, that do not have a tower, but have lots of hotels close by, that would let us use their big empty hangars for free....sounds like an impossible airport to find. I would be willing to remotely organize the fly-in under the right set of circumstances, but a couple of organizers splitting responsibilities (and sharing information) would probably be easier. Having some organizer depth would certainly be a good thing....what would happen if the only event organizer were to get sick and not be able to attend? Maybe one person could handle the registrations and promotions, one person could be the airport liaison and coordinate for the forum space and hangar space, one person could handle the awards, one person could handle the awards dinner....you get my drift, some of the tasks are easy and one person could do more than one task. Establish one person as the head honcho and split up the responsibilities. Obviously, it would be helpful if someone local could handle the airport liaison duties and be the honest broker. You would never know about the facility unless someone personally talked to the airport manager/FBO and he/she was fly-in friendly. I spent a couple hours the other night looking for potential airports and found several that look pretty good on paper. Ada, OK - KADH Beatrice, NE - KBIE Worthington, MN - KOTG Mason City, IA - KMCW Ankeny, IA - KIKV Fort Dodge, IA - KFOD Ames, IA - KAMW Ottumwa, IA - KOTM Southeast Iowa, Burlington, IA - KBRL Keokuk, IA - KEOK Iowa City, IA - KIOW Muscatine, IA - KMUT Jonesboro, AR - KJBR Perry Lefors, Pampa, TX - KPPA Hutchinson County Airport, Borger, TX - KBGD Liberal, KS - KLBL North Platte, NE - KLBF Plainview, TX - KPVW Hope, AR - KM18 Stuttgart, AR - KSGT Conway, AR - KCWS Coffeyville, KS - KCFV El Dorado, KS - KEQA Man they have some nice airports in IA!! I have created an Excel spreadsheet that contains basic lodging information (number of hotels, distance from the airport to the hotels, and basic $ range), distance to major commercial airport, possible shower facilities, and city population. Obviously if the "perfect" airport is not there, the "must have" list criteria will have to be prioritized. It is more important to have a suitable runway than to be close to a commercial airport. I have not really looked at IL or WI yet, this is maybe getting on the far edge of the eastern limit. IMO, the further east and north we go we will have potentially fewer fly-in participants due to where the flying TW aircraft are generally located. There are a couple airports that really look PERFECT on paper (KIKV in particular). If you have an airport that you think would be a great location for the next fly-in, please let me know. The airport has to meet the criteria listed on the "must" list. I recommend that we transfer this discussion to the TW fly-in list. The TW fly-in list on Yahoo is located at: http://groups. <http://groups.> <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/> yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/> yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/ <http://groups. <http://groups.> <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/> yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/> yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/> I am looking forward to next years fly-in!!! Thanks, Jeff Dragonfly MK-IIH - N41GK TW FOD Event Organizer 2003, 2004, 2005
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Boddicker <trumanst@...>
Jeff,
Anleny IA is where the FSDO lives. Right on the field. We would have to be on our best behavior!!!! I don't have an Omaha sectional, but the Des Moines airspace can't be too far away. Very much an urban area. Kevin Boddicker Luana, Iowa Tri Q200 N7868B Flying!!!! on 10/4/06 4:56 PM, Letempt, Jeffrey MR at jeffrey.letempt@... wrote: TW'ers, I think there are a lot of great ideas being exchanged on the lists about the fly-in. Organizing the fly-in takes a lot of effort and although it is possible to organize the fly-in from a remote location, it is not something I would highly recommend the first year at a new location. This means that the fly-in really should be relatively close to the organizer's home. There are so many variables that can drastically change the event overnight. A simple fly-in where you can reserve a room at a buffet style restaurant (pay as you go, no firm numbers needed in advance) for the awards banquet could be organized remotely, but if you are have to select a caterer and organize a banquet hall that complicates things. I am a HUGE supporter of moving the fly-in around once in a while. I am not suggesting that we need to find a new "perfect" location every year, but I think moving the event a few hundred miles once in a while has a positive impact. I appreciate the comments about the smaller TW fly-ins. I seriously doubt that I will probably ever attempt to fly my VW powered Dragonfly to the west coast for a weekend fly-in. I really do not enjoy long cross country flights and my wife does not enjoy flying in my Dragonfly very much. I totally understand someone not wanting to fly a couple thousand miles in the TW airplane just to attend a weekend fly-in. Something like the FOD fly-in where you might have 15-20 TW airplanes is a great opportunity for builders to see finished flying planes, possibly get an orientation flight, and certainly a great place to get some terrific ideas. Even if there was no FOD fly-in in the middle of the US, that would not be justification for me to attend a TW fly-in on the west coast. If anything I think it would give me more incentive to attempt a long cross country flight. I have attended the Illinois TW fly-ins 5 of the last 6 years and was disappointed a couple times due to the low turnout. It has absolutely nothing to do with the person organizing the event; Keith, Steve, and Sam have done a GREAT job organizing these events. I was unable to attend the Casey fly-in this year because of my mom and dad's 50th wedding anniversary. I was sad that I missed the event, in fact I had seriously considered still flying over to Casey but my sisters told me that mom and dad would write me out of the will if I got weathered in or stuck at Casey due to maintenance :<)) I understand the concept of having the fly-in just before or after AirVenture, but I think this could have a negative impact on all but a few potential long distance travelers. Most of us still have jobs and limited funds (or we would probably all have Lancairs IVP's). Several of our attendees volunteer at AirVenture and Sam always participants in the race. The last 2 years I have just spent the last 3-4 days at AirVenture. Unless someone planned on spending the whole week at AirVenture I am not sure how you would schedule the TW fly-in, not to mention what impact this would have on the organizers. Not everyone attends AirVenture, even if they only live a couple hundred miles (or less) from OSH. I understand Jim's frustration about spend lots of time organizing a fly-in and then no one shows up. It is very stressful spending lots of time (and money) and committing to contracts only to have the weather keep most of the people from flying to the event. MOST of the pilots who can not fly-in due to weather or maintenance would just tell the organizer to keep their registration fees so the organizer would not take it in the shorts. Of course most of the people who were going to drive or fly commercially show up and are disappointed to see only a few TW airplanes. I guess this is the nature of the beast and of course there is nothing we can do about the weather. Me, Doug, and Spud have been talking behind the scenes about next year's event since a couple days after the fly-in. I proposed 2 sets of criteria to Doug and Spud a few hours before that was suggested by David on the Q list (I guess great minds think alike, right David?). In order to select a fly-in location I think it is important to establish a list of "must have" and "should have" needs. I will propose a few things to consider: MUST o Be generally located in the middle of the USA o Have a fly-in friendly airport manager (critical to the success of the fly-in) o Have 4000' x 75' or larger runway o Have hangar space for 20 TW airplanes o Have space to conduct forums o Have hotels and restaurants reasonably close o Have reasonable access via automobile (close to interstate highway preferable) o Have little or no cost to use the facility SHOULD o Have a crosswind runway o Have parallel taxiways o Be an uncontrolled airport clear of Class B airspace o Allow camping at the airport o Have shower facilities at the airport o Have reasonable access to a major commercial airport From looking at the MO airport directory there is a total of ZERO airports which meet all the "must" and "should" criteria that I listed above, there are 3 or 4 that get close. There are just not many large airports (2 runways that are 4000x75), out in the country, that are close to a big city, that do not have a tower, but have lots of hotels close by, that would let us use their big empty hangars for free....sounds like an impossible airport to find. I would be willing to remotely organize the fly-in under the right set of circumstances, but a couple of organizers splitting responsibilities (and sharing information) would probably be easier. Having some organizer depth would certainly be a good thing....what would happen if the only event organizer were to get sick and not be able to attend? Maybe one person could handle the registrations and promotions, one person could be the airport liaison and coordinate for the forum space and hangar space, one person could handle the awards, one person could handle the awards dinner....you get my drift, some of the tasks are easy and one person could do more than one task. Establish one person as the head honcho and split up the responsibilities. Obviously, it would be helpful if someone local could handle the airport liaison duties and be the honest broker. You would never know about the facility unless someone personally talked to the airport manager/FBO and he/she was fly-in friendly. I spent a couple hours the other night looking for potential airports and found several that look pretty good on paper. Ada, OK - KADH Beatrice, NE - KBIE Worthington, MN - KOTG Mason City, IA - KMCW Ankeny, IA - KIKV Fort Dodge, IA - KFOD Ames, IA - KAMW Ottumwa, IA - KOTM Southeast Iowa, Burlington, IA - KBRL Keokuk, IA - KEOK Iowa City, IA - KIOW Muscatine, IA - KMUT Jonesboro, AR - KJBR Perry Lefors, Pampa, TX - KPPA Hutchinson County Airport, Borger, TX - KBGD Liberal, KS - KLBL North Platte, NE - KLBF Plainview, TX - KPVW Hope, AR - KM18 Stuttgart, AR - KSGT Conway, AR - KCWS Coffeyville, KS - KCFV El Dorado, KS - KEQA Man they have some nice airports in IA!! I have created an Excel spreadsheet that contains basic lodging information (number of hotels, distance from the airport to the hotels, and basic $ range), distance to major commercial airport, possible shower facilities, and city population. Obviously if the "perfect" airport is not there, the "must have" list criteria will have to be prioritized. It is more important to have a suitable runway than to be close to a commercial airport. I have not really looked at IL or WI yet, this is maybe getting on the far edge of the eastern limit. IMO, the further east and north we go we will have potentially fewer fly-in participants due to where the flying TW aircraft are generally located. There are a couple airports that really look PERFECT on paper (KIKV in particular). If you have an airport that you think would be a great location for the next fly-in, please let me know. The airport has to meet the criteria listed on the "must" list. I recommend that we transfer this discussion to the TW fly-in list. The TW fly-in list on Yahoo is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2006TandemWingFly_In/> I am looking forward to next years fly-in!!! Thanks, Jeff Dragonfly MK-IIH - N41GK TW FOD Event Organizer 2003, 2004, 2005
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Boddicker <trumanst@...>
Sorry,
That should read Ankeny. Kevin on 10/5/06 8:56 PM, Boddicker at trumanst@... wrote: Jeff, Anleny IA is where the FSDO lives. Right on the field. We would have to be on our best behavior!!!! I don't have an Omaha sectional, but the Des Moines airspace can't be too far away. Very much an urban area. Kevin Boddicker Luana, Iowa Tri Q200 N7868B
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JMasal@...
Maybe, Jeff, we should raffle off a car to get more people to come.
Masal, Thayer and Kittle flew commercially. Wuz dat all? j.
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