Triq tracking


MartinErni@...
 

I got a call from Larry Covey a triq builder from Florida. He has been
fighting with a problem for quite some time with his plane pulling to the left on
the runway. It is bad enough that he has been reluctant to put many hours on
it. It has been finished for several years and is still has less than 40
hours on it. He does not have Internet access and asked that I quiz the group.
I suggested he check the obvious things (wheel alignment, wheel
bearings, brakes, etc) and he had already done those and more. He completely
realigned the wheels and axles resetting the toe in to .5 degrees and the camber to 8
degrees. He replaced the wheels, bearings, and brakes and nothing changed.
His tire wear is the same as mine (slightly more on the outside treads). I
can't imagine what his problem is. Any ideas I might pass along?

Earnest


MartinErni@...
 

In a message dated 11/24/2006 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
LJFrench@... writes:

unless he is tapping a brake to try making it go
straight and that is the "pull".



Lynn he said he was using a lot of right brake to keep it from turning left
at speeds all the way up to 40 or 50 MPH. I only tap the brake for maybe the
first 50 feet of TO roll. He also said it was a more marked turn when
decelerating. I am perplexed. I wish I could examine it for myself.
Earnest


britmcman99
 

Is the tracking error the same on acceleration as on deceleration? Could it
be that the thrust of the propeller is pulling the plane in the direction of
error? Does the plane fly in a crab as well?

Phil


French <LJFrench@...>
 

Earnest,
Do you know if he checked the toe in relative to the centerline of the fuselage or just relative to each other or the gear? Could it be possible the main gear is not mounted square in the fuselage? I would think that would just cause him to go down the runway sideways rather than causing a "pull" to one side......unless he is tapping a brake to try making it go straight and that is the "pull".
Axle nut torque on the one wheel bearing could cause this if he is trying to tighten one of the axle nuts to the next "cotter" notch which may be much tighter than the other side. Sometimes a shim is needed on one side or the other so the cotter pin can be inserted at the right bearing preload.
Don't know....just some thoughts
Lynn French

----- Original Message -----
From: <MartinErni@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Triq tracking


He completely
realigned the wheels and axles resetting the toe in to .5 degrees and the camber to 8
degrees.
His tire wear is the same as mine (slightly more on the outside treads).
Earnest


Richard Hole <rickhole@...>
 

Where in Florida is this plane located? Would he be willing to fly to
Sebastian (X26) so we could take a look and maybe put our guru in it
for a taxi test.

--- In Q-LIST@..., MartinErni@... wrote:


In a message dated 11/24/2006 9:51:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
LJFrench@... writes:

unless he is tapping a brake to try making it go
straight and that is the "pull".




Brad/Iris Baerg <brirbrg@...>
 

I had the same problem,
I first shimmed the left wheel out on the front (toe out), taxi tested, then shimmed the right wheel in.
Ended up with the same toe in but the plane taxied straight and was steerable with rudder only after
about 20 MPH. On take off and landing, I can track down the centre line with rudder only, and never
touch the brakes except to slow down.
hope this helps.
Brad
TRI- Q CGTCA

----- Original Message -----


I got a call from Larry Covey a triq builder from Florida. He has been
fighting with a problem for quite some time with his plane pulling to the left on
the runway. It is bad enough that he has been reluctant to put many hours on
it. It has been finished for several years and is still has less than 40
hours on it. He does not have Internet access and asked that I quiz the group.
I suggested he check the obvious things (wheel alignment, wheel
bearings, brakes, etc) and he had already done those and more. He completely
realigned the wheels and axles resetting the toe in to .5 degrees and the camber to 8
degrees. He replaced the wheels, bearings, and brakes and nothing changed.
His tire wear is the same as mine (slightly more on the outside treads). I
can't imagine what his problem is. Any ideas I might pass along?

Earnest


MartinErni@...
 

In a message dated 11/24/2006 11:00:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rickhole@... writes:

Where in Florida is this plane located? Would he be willing to fly to
Sebastian (X26) so we could take a look and maybe put our guru in it
for a taxi test.


He is at Aero Acres near Fort Pierce. Give him a call at 772-460-1961.

Earnest


MartinErni@...
 

In a message dated 11/24/2006 11:15:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
britmcman@... writes:

Is the tracking error the same on acceleration as on deceleration? Could it
be that the thrust of the propeller is pulling the plane in the direction of

error? Does the plane fly in a crab as well?



Phil,
It gets worse decelerating.

Earnest


MartinErni@...
 

In a message dated 11/25/2006 1:29:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
brirbrg@... writes:




I had the same problem,
I first shimmed the left wheel out on the front (toe out), taxi tested, then
shimmed the right wheel in.
Ended up with the same toe in but the plane taxied straight and was
steerable with rudder only after
about 20 MPH. On take off and landing, I can track down the centre line with
rudder only, and never
touch the brakes except to slow down.
hope this helps.






Thanks Brad,
This is the most encouraging thing I have heard. I'll call Larry.
Earnest


MartinErni@...
 

In a message dated 11/25/2006 8:49:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jnmarstall@... writes:




maybe he has a moving gear attachment problem like I had. If he does,
attempts to align the wheels would not help for very long. If he is
running a VW and if he has toe-brakes, maybe his rudder pedal/brake
linkage is such that when he is applying rudder, he is dragging the
brake. Will it taxi straight?






Jerry,
I mentioned your problem with the Saddle tube slipping and he was going
to double check it. It will not taxi straight.

Earnest


MartinErni@...
 

Thanks Dave,
Those have all been checked.
E


Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

maybe he has a moving gear attachment problem like I had. If he does,
attempts to align the wheels would not help for very long. If he is
running a VW and if he has toe-brakes, maybe his rudder pedal/brake
linkage is such that when he is applying rudder, he is dragging the
brake. Will it taxi straight?
Jerry

MartinErni@... wrote:


I got a call from Larry Covey a triq builder from Florida. He has been
fighting with a problem for quite some time with his plane pulling to
the left on
the runway. It is bad enough that he has been reluctant to put many
hours on
it. It has been finished for several years and is still has less than 40
hours on it. He does not have Internet access and asked that I quiz
the group.
I suggested he check the obvious things (wheel alignment, wheel
bearings, brakes, etc) and he had already done those and more. He
completely
realigned the wheels and axles resetting the toe in to .5 degrees and
the camber to 8
degrees. He replaced the wheels, bearings, and brakes and nothing
changed.
His tire wear is the same as mine (slightly more on the outside
treads). I
can't imagine what his problem is. Any ideas I might pass along?

Earnest




David Richardson
 

A couple of other things he might want to check. Larry has an O200
on his plane so it's going to want to go to the left if encouraged.
He might want to check and see that his nose gear was installed
vertically. If it is leaning with the wheel more to the passenger
side it would want to go to the left. While he's at it he should
check his caster to make sure it is positive. The lowest part the
nose gear where the fork is attached needs a couple of degrees of
angle. If you look at that part from the side, the bottom of the
nose gear should be forward of the upper area where the fork
attaches so that angle is leaning backwards toward the tail. That
will help the wheel center itself.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 825DR



--- In Q-LIST@..., Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...> wrote:

maybe he has a moving gear attachment problem like I had. If he
does,
attempts to align the wheels would not help for very long. If he
is
running a VW and if he has toe-brakes, maybe his rudder
pedal/brake
linkage is such that when he is applying rudder, he is dragging
the
brake. Will it taxi straight?
Jerry

MartinErni@... wrote:

I got a call from Larry Covey a triq builder from Florida. He
has been
fighting with a problem for quite some time with his plane
pulling to
the left on
the runway. It is bad enough that he has been reluctant to put
many
hours on
it. It has been finished for several years and is still has less
than 40
hours on it. He does not have Internet access and asked that I
quiz
the group.
I suggested he check the obvious things (wheel alignment, wheel
bearings, brakes, etc) and he had already done those and more.
He
completely
realigned the wheels and axles resetting the toe in to .5
degrees and
the camber to 8
degrees. He replaced the wheels, bearings, and brakes and
nothing
changed.
His tire wear is the same as mine (slightly more on the outside
treads). I
can't imagine what his problem is. Any ideas I might pass along?

Earnest






Bartholomew Hanson Fisher
 

Or the motor is left?


Quoting darichardson75 <darichardson75@...>:



A couple of other things he might want to check. Larry has an O200
on his plane so it's going to want to go to the left if encouraged.
He might want to check and see that his nose gear was installed
vertically. If it is leaning with the wheel more to the passenger
side it would want to go to the left. While he's at it he should
check his caster to make sure it is positive. The lowest part the
nose gear where the fork is attached needs a couple of degrees of
angle. If you look at that part from the side, the bottom of the
nose gear should be forward of the upper area where the fork
attaches so that angle is leaning backwards toward the tail. That
will help the wheel center itself.

Dave Richardson
Tri-Q2 825DR



--- In Q-LIST@..., Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...> wrote:

maybe he has a moving gear attachment problem like I had. If he
does,
attempts to align the wheels would not help for very long. If he
is
running a VW and if he has toe-brakes, maybe his rudder
pedal/brake
linkage is such that when he is applying rudder, he is dragging
the
brake. Will it taxi straight?
Jerry

MartinErni@... wrote:

I got a call from Larry Covey a triq builder from Florida. He
has been
fighting with a problem for quite some time with his plane
pulling to
the left on
the runway. It is bad enough that he has been reluctant to put
many
hours on
it. It has been finished for several years and is still has less
than 40
hours on it. He does not have Internet access and asked that I
quiz
the group.
I suggested he check the obvious things (wheel alignment, wheel
bearings, brakes, etc) and he had already done those and more.
He
completely
realigned the wheels and axles resetting the toe in to .5
degrees and
the camber to 8
degrees. He replaced the wheels, bearings, and brakes and
nothing
changed.
His tire wear is the same as mine (slightly more on the outside
treads). I
can't imagine what his problem is. Any ideas I might pass along?

Earnest





FR Jones <seabeevet@...>
 

Has he tried any high speed taxi runs? I don't mean one or two, but a lot to
wittle down the possibilities?
Dick

On 11/24/06, MartinErni@... <MartinErni@...> wrote:

I got a call from Larry Covey a triq builder from Florida. He has been
fighting with a problem for quite some time with his plane pulling to the
left on
the runway. It is bad enough that he has been reluctant to put many hours
on
it. It has been finished for several years and is still has less than 40
hours on it. He does not have Internet access and asked that I quiz the
group.
I suggested he check the obvious things (wheel alignment, wheel
bearings, brakes, etc) and he had already done those and more. He
completely
realigned the wheels and axles resetting the toe in to .5 degrees and the
camber to 8
degrees. He replaced the wheels, bearings, and brakes and nothing changed.

His tire wear is the same as mine (slightly more on the outside treads). I

can't imagine what his problem is. Any ideas I might pass along?

Earnest





REBECCA SIMPSON
 

Ernest,
I had this problem so you had to put the right rudder pedal to the
floor and still tap the right brake. I pulled the wheels, greased the
bearings and retighened both sides equally - not 100% but much better.

Brad,
What size shims? Did you buy or make them ?

Cheers,
Tad


Brad/Iris Baerg <brirbrg@...>
 

I think I used 2 AN4 thin washers on both of the bolts (front or rear)
I'm not positive as it was trial and error process until I got it right.
Brad

Ernest,
I had this problem so you had to put the right rudder pedal to the
floor and still tap the right brake. I pulled the wheels, greased the
bearings and retighened both sides equally - not 100% but much better.

Brad,
What size shims? Did you buy or make them ?

Cheers,
Tad