Roll Trim


Jon Finley <jon@...>
 

Hi Chris,

Probably not quite an answer... Quite a few of us have a turnbuckle
permanently mounted in one of the elevator push-pull tubes between the stick
and elevator bellcrank (requires the two elevator push-pull tube setup).
Rotating this bellcrank increases or decreases the length of the push-pull
tube thus increasing/decreasing the position of ONE elevator. The roll
tendency that you mention can then be trimmed out.

I know Paul Fisher uses a fancy length of velcro to hold the stick to the
side to solve the roll-trim problem! :-)

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: chris rayner
Sent: Tue, December 26, 2006 9:31 am
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Merry Christmas and a question (as usual)

Sam, congratulations on the "new grandad" and Merry Christmas and have a
great New Year all.
Those little white dotted lines in the "trussnauts" picture looks like it
could be pretty useful... great picture though.

To all, now the festive season is on the way to "over" I'm thinking about
two things for the new year - moving out of my house at the end of January,
to another one I haven't found yet! .. and finishing flight testing the Q.
One thing from the first flight, when roll trim was used on the split
elevator control, to compensate for the single occupant, it affected the
neutral position of the ailerons. It naturally wanted to bank (left I
think). Does anyone know if this is normal or can be corrected by (eg
reducing the strength of the little springs between the elevator control
arms? Or do I have to change the untrimmed position of one elevator so the
left one is more down than the right when untrimmed? I haven't tried with
two on board yet, so maybe it's not a problem then, but it's a bit of effort
to fight the bias with only one person aboard. Any comments please?
Many thanks
Chris Rayner (G-CUIK)


chris rayner <chris-rayner@...>
 

Hi Jon and Sam, I wasn't being clear enough - sorry. I do have the turnbuckle trim on the left push/pull rod. When this is used to shorten the left rod to drop the elevator and trim to roll right, it causes the stick to move to rest off centre - to the left I think. So I wondered if this is normal and what I should do to fix it, eg move the position of the left elevator down a bit with respect to the elevator actuator arm? Or can I do something else like soften the little springs that are between the two elevator actuating arms?
Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Finley
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 4:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Roll Trim


Hi Chris,

Probably not quite an answer... Quite a few of us have a turnbuckle
permanently mounted in one of the elevator push-pull tubes between the stick
and elevator bellcrank (requires the two elevator push-pull tube setup).
Rotating this bellcrank increases or decreases the length of the push-pull
tube thus increasing/decreasing the position of ONE elevator. The roll
tendency that you mention can then be trimmed out.

I know Paul Fisher uses a fancy length of velcro to hold the stick to the
side to solve the roll-trim problem! :-)

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: chris rayner
Sent: Tue, December 26, 2006 9:31 am
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Merry Christmas and a question (as usual)

Sam, congratulations on the "new grandad" and Merry Christmas and have a
great New Year all.
Those little white dotted lines in the "trussnauts" picture looks like it
could be pretty useful... great picture though.

To all, now the festive season is on the way to "over" I'm thinking about
two things for the new year - moving out of my house at the end of January,
to another one I haven't found yet! .. and finishing flight testing the Q.
One thing from the first flight, when roll trim was used on the split
elevator control, to compensate for the single occupant, it affected the
neutral position of the ailerons. It naturally wanted to bank (left I
think). Does anyone know if this is normal or can be corrected by (eg
reducing the strength of the little springs between the elevator control
arms? Or do I have to change the untrimmed position of one elevator so the
left one is more down than the right when untrimmed? I haven't tried with
two on board yet, so maybe it's not a problem then, but it's a bit of effort
to fight the bias with only one person aboard. Any comments please?
Many thanks
Chris Rayner (G-CUIK)


shoskins@...
 

Chris, sounds normal to me. I have mine on the right control rod. I think that
makes it work toward a safer system. If I have heavy loads on the right, I
adjust the right turnbuckle so it shortens the rod length. If you have the
adjustable rod on the left, adjusting it for heavier loads will lengthen the
push rod, towards separation.

I haven't really paid attention to whether or not the stick changes position.
So to me at least, it's no big deal.
Sam


Jon Finley <jon@...>
 

I just went and checked mine. Yes, the stick position moves as I turn the
elevator turnbuckle. I've never noticed this in-flight and don't believe
that it is an issue.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
shoskins@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:23 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Roll Trim


Chris, sounds normal to me. I have mine on the right control rod. I think
that
makes it work toward a safer system. If I have heavy loads on the right, I
adjust the right turnbuckle so it shortens the rod length. If you have the
adjustable rod on the left, adjusting it for heavier loads will lengthen the
push rod, towards separation.

I haven't really paid attention to whether or not the stick changes
position.
So to me at least, it's no big deal.
Sam










Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


chris rayner <chris-rayner@...>
 

OK thanks everyone who could help with some advice. When you're new to these planes (or anything) it's not easy to tell what's significant and what's not. That's why it's good to have a bunch of guys who have been there and know what is and what isn't. So my unknown issue doesn't seem to be much of a problem and I'll probably live with it, but at least I can now make an informed decision. Tomorrow I hope to carry out post first flight checks and some more taxying - if weather's OK.
Incidentally (Richard) I have instructions for fitting the roll trim turnbuckle and it says "right control rod" which is crossed out and "left" inserted. I think the only difference is that if you use the right rod, the adjustment is not "intuitive" as you rotate the knurled knob left to roll right and vice versa. Which causes the control arms to run out of movement first is probably more to do with exactly how it was built/trimmed in the first place. Mine needs about 1/2" left down elevator to trim for one (heavyish at I guess 200lbs) pilot. I think this is more than some might find, but based on the advice I received, I won't change anything till flight tests are completed.
Chris Rayner

----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Finley
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 8:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Roll Trim


I just went and checked mine. Yes, the stick position moves as I turn the
elevator turnbuckle. I've never noticed this in-flight and don't believe
that it is an issue.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
shoskins@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:23 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Roll Trim

Chris, sounds normal to me. I have mine on the right control rod. I think
that
makes it work toward a safer system. If I have heavy loads on the right, I
adjust the right turnbuckle so it shortens the rod length. If you have the
adjustable rod on the left, adjusting it for heavier loads will lengthen the
push rod, towards separation.

I haven't really paid attention to whether or not the stick changes
position.
So to me at least, it's no big deal.
Sam



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links


Richard Thomson
 

I agree chris, crossed controls tend to catch people out especially
when there is a lot going on, and the left side does seem better for
access to be able to use your other hand to adjust the wheel whilst
holding the stick straight. But are there advantages to keeping it on
the right ?? Is the reaction in the air more natural with it that
side ?

Rich Thomson.
Richard @cloudland.co.uk







--- In Q-LIST@..., "chris rayner" <chris-rayner@...>
wrote:

OK thanks everyone who could help with some advice. When you're new
to these planes (or anything) it's not easy to tell what's
significant and what's not. That's why it's good to have a bunch of
guys who have been there and know what is and what isn't. So my
unknown issue doesn't seem to be much of a problem and I'll probably
live with it, but at least I can now make an informed decision.
Tomorrow I hope to carry out post first flight checks and some more
taxying - if weather's OK.
Incidentally (Richard) I have instructions for fitting the roll
trim turnbuckle and it says "right control rod" which is crossed out
and "left" inserted. I think the only difference is that if you use
the right rod, the adjustment is not "intuitive" as you rotate the
knurled knob left to roll right and vice versa. Which causes the
control arms to run out of movement first is probably more to do with
exactly how it was built/trimmed in the first place. Mine needs about
1/2" left down elevator to trim for one (heavyish at I guess 200lbs)
pilot. I think this is more than some might find, but based on the
advice I received, I won't change anything till flight tests are
completed.
Chris Rayner
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Finley
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 8:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Roll Trim


I just went and checked mine. Yes, the stick position moves as I
turn the
elevator turnbuckle. I've never noticed this in-flight and don't
believe
that it is an issue.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On
Behalf Of
shoskins@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:23 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Roll Trim

Chris, sounds normal to me. I have mine on the right control rod.
I think
that
makes it work toward a safer system. If I have heavy loads on the
right, I
adjust the right turnbuckle so it shortens the rod length. If you
have the
adjustable rod on the left, adjusting it for heavier loads will
lengthen the
push rod, towards separation.

I haven't really paid attention to whether or not the stick
changes
position.
So to me at least, it's no big deal.
Sam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links