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Roll Trim
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Jon Finley <jon@...>
Hi Chris,
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Probably not quite an answer... Quite a few of us have a turnbuckle permanently mounted in one of the elevator push-pull tubes between the stick and elevator bellcrank (requires the two elevator push-pull tube setup). Rotating this bellcrank increases or decreases the length of the push-pull tube thus increasing/decreasing the position of ONE elevator. The roll tendency that you mention can then be trimmed out. I know Paul Fisher uses a fancy length of velcro to hold the stick to the side to solve the roll-trim problem! :-) Jon
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From: chris rayner Sent: Tue, December 26, 2006 9:31 am To: Q-LIST@... Subject: [Q-LIST] Merry Christmas and a question (as usual) Sam, congratulations on the "new grandad" and Merry Christmas and have a great New Year all. Those little white dotted lines in the "trussnauts" picture looks like it could be pretty useful... great picture though. To all, now the festive season is on the way to "over" I'm thinking about two things for the new year - moving out of my house at the end of January, to another one I haven't found yet! .. and finishing flight testing the Q. One thing from the first flight, when roll trim was used on the split elevator control, to compensate for the single occupant, it affected the neutral position of the ailerons. It naturally wanted to bank (left I think). Does anyone know if this is normal or can be corrected by (eg reducing the strength of the little springs between the elevator control arms? Or do I have to change the untrimmed position of one elevator so the left one is more down than the right when untrimmed? I haven't tried with two on board yet, so maybe it's not a problem then, but it's a bit of effort to fight the bias with only one person aboard. Any comments please? Many thanks Chris Rayner (G-CUIK)
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chris rayner <chris-rayner@...>
Hi Jon and Sam, I wasn't being clear enough - sorry. I do have the turnbuckle trim on the left push/pull rod. When this is used to shorten the left rod to drop the elevator and trim to roll right, it causes the stick to move to rest off centre - to the left I think. So I wondered if this is normal and what I should do to fix it, eg move the position of the left elevator down a bit with respect to the elevator actuator arm? Or can I do something else like soften the little springs that are between the two elevator actuating arms?
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Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Finley To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 4:07 PM Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Roll Trim Hi Chris, Probably not quite an answer... Quite a few of us have a turnbuckle permanently mounted in one of the elevator push-pull tubes between the stick and elevator bellcrank (requires the two elevator push-pull tube setup). Rotating this bellcrank increases or decreases the length of the push-pull tube thus increasing/decreasing the position of ONE elevator. The roll tendency that you mention can then be trimmed out. I know Paul Fisher uses a fancy length of velcro to hold the stick to the side to solve the roll-trim problem! :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: chris rayner Sent: Tue, December 26, 2006 9:31 am To: Q-LIST@... Subject: [Q-LIST] Merry Christmas and a question (as usual) Sam, congratulations on the "new grandad" and Merry Christmas and have a great New Year all. Those little white dotted lines in the "trussnauts" picture looks like it could be pretty useful... great picture though. To all, now the festive season is on the way to "over" I'm thinking about two things for the new year - moving out of my house at the end of January, to another one I haven't found yet! .. and finishing flight testing the Q. One thing from the first flight, when roll trim was used on the split elevator control, to compensate for the single occupant, it affected the neutral position of the ailerons. It naturally wanted to bank (left I think). Does anyone know if this is normal or can be corrected by (eg reducing the strength of the little springs between the elevator control arms? Or do I have to change the untrimmed position of one elevator so the left one is more down than the right when untrimmed? I haven't tried with two on board yet, so maybe it's not a problem then, but it's a bit of effort to fight the bias with only one person aboard. Any comments please? Many thanks Chris Rayner (G-CUIK)
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shoskins@...
Chris, sounds normal to me. I have mine on the right control rod. I think that
makes it work toward a safer system. If I have heavy loads on the right, I adjust the right turnbuckle so it shortens the rod length. If you have the adjustable rod on the left, adjusting it for heavier loads will lengthen the push rod, towards separation. I haven't really paid attention to whether or not the stick changes position. So to me at least, it's no big deal. Sam
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Jon Finley <jon@...>
I just went and checked mine. Yes, the stick position moves as I turn the
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elevator turnbuckle. I've never noticed this in-flight and don't believe that it is an issue. Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of shoskins@... Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:23 AM To: Q-LIST@... Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Roll Trim Chris, sounds normal to me. I have mine on the right control rod. I think that makes it work toward a safer system. If I have heavy loads on the right, I adjust the right turnbuckle so it shortens the rod length. If you have the adjustable rod on the left, adjusting it for heavier loads will lengthen the push rod, towards separation. I haven't really paid attention to whether or not the stick changes position. So to me at least, it's no big deal. Sam Quickie Builders Association WEB site http://www.quickiebuilders.org Yahoo! Groups Links
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chris rayner <chris-rayner@...>
OK thanks everyone who could help with some advice. When you're new to these planes (or anything) it's not easy to tell what's significant and what's not. That's why it's good to have a bunch of guys who have been there and know what is and what isn't. So my unknown issue doesn't seem to be much of a problem and I'll probably live with it, but at least I can now make an informed decision. Tomorrow I hope to carry out post first flight checks and some more taxying - if weather's OK.
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Incidentally (Richard) I have instructions for fitting the roll trim turnbuckle and it says "right control rod" which is crossed out and "left" inserted. I think the only difference is that if you use the right rod, the adjustment is not "intuitive" as you rotate the knurled knob left to roll right and vice versa. Which causes the control arms to run out of movement first is probably more to do with exactly how it was built/trimmed in the first place. Mine needs about 1/2" left down elevator to trim for one (heavyish at I guess 200lbs) pilot. I think this is more than some might find, but based on the advice I received, I won't change anything till flight tests are completed. Chris Rayner
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Finley To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 8:30 PM Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Roll Trim I just went and checked mine. Yes, the stick position moves as I turn the elevator turnbuckle. I've never noticed this in-flight and don't believe that it is an issue. Jon -----Original Message----- From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of shoskins@... Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:23 AM To: Q-LIST@... Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Roll Trim Chris, sounds normal to me. I have mine on the right control rod. I think that makes it work toward a safer system. If I have heavy loads on the right, I adjust the right turnbuckle so it shortens the rod length. If you have the adjustable rod on the left, adjusting it for heavier loads will lengthen the push rod, towards separation. I haven't really paid attention to whether or not the stick changes position. So to me at least, it's no big deal. Sam Quickie Builders Association WEB site http://www.quickiebuilders.org Yahoo! Groups Links
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I agree chris, crossed controls tend to catch people out especially
when there is a lot going on, and the left side does seem better for access to be able to use your other hand to adjust the wheel whilst holding the stick straight. But are there advantages to keeping it on the right ?? Is the reaction in the air more natural with it that side ? Rich Thomson. Richard @cloudland.co.uk --- In Q-LIST@..., "chris rayner" <chris-rayner@...> wrote: to these planes (or anything) it's not easy to tell what's significant and what's not. That's why it's good to have a bunch of guys who have been there and know what is and what isn't. So my unknown issue doesn't seem to be much of a problem and I'll probably live with it, but at least I can now make an informed decision. Tomorrow I hope to carry out post first flight checks and some more taxying - if weather's OK. Incidentally (Richard) I have instructions for fitting the rolltrim turnbuckle and it says "right control rod" which is crossed out and "left" inserted. I think the only difference is that if you use the right rod, the adjustment is not "intuitive" as you rotate the knurled knob left to roll right and vice versa. Which causes the control arms to run out of movement first is probably more to do with exactly how it was built/trimmed in the first place. Mine needs about 1/2" left down elevator to trim for one (heavyish at I guess 200lbs) pilot. I think this is more than some might find, but based on the advice I received, I won't change anything till flight tests are completed. Chris Raynerturn the elevator turnbuckle. I've never noticed this in-flight and don'tbelieve that it is an issue.Behalf Of shoskins@...I think thatright, I adjust the right turnbuckle so it shortens the rod length. If youhave the adjustable rod on the left, adjusting it for heavier loads willlengthen the push rod, towards separation.changes position.
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