Date
1 - 8 of 8
No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone )
|
Hi All,
I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I looked to get things ready to start priming. I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq feet of paint without any adhesion at all. So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was enough and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done, and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that the filler will be good. Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips, the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to damp conditions? This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the refinishing. I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ? Richard Thomson Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old. richard@... |
|
|
|
Mike Dwyer <mdwyer@...>
You need the UV barrier, remember Gore says the Ozone is gone and you don't want your plane melting in the hot sun. Also the paint that peeled off mine was also black on the bottom. I don't think it was so much that the black split. I think it's the out-gassing of the fiberglass that pops the paint off and the black tries to stick to everything... I left an unprotected piece of fiberglass in the sun and after a year the resin was gone leaving only the raw glass. Seems the resin sublimates (solid to gas) in the sun?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Mike N3QP viggenbuilder2 wrote: Hi All, |
|
|
|
Allan Farr <afarr@...>
Hi. It's funny how these subjects come up. I was picking at some cracked paint on the coaming of my a/c last night and it just started flaking off right down to the fibreglass. I am carefully using a blunt chisel and it's easily coming off. Hope it's not all like that.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Allan F ----- Original Message -----
From: viggenbuilder2 To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 09:11 Subject: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone ) Hi All, I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I looked to get things ready to start priming. I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq feet of paint without any adhesion at all. So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was enough and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done, and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that the filler will be good. Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips, the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to damp conditions? This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the refinishing. I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ? Richard Thomson Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old. richard@... |
|
|
|
Steve <sham@...>
You guys need to be careful about "picking at your bumps". I started doing this 14 months ago and I have been in the process of COMPLETLY stripping and refinishing my plane. I thought I did a good job of finishing the first time....but the second time you really learn how to get the find the PERFECT finish. 40 hours the first time and 200 the second time. Obsessive compulsive behavior...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Steve Ham ----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Farr To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone ) Hi. It's funny how these subjects come up. I was picking at some cracked paint on the coaming of my a/c last night and it just started flaking off right down to the fibreglass. I am carefully using a blunt chisel and it's easily coming off. Hope it's not all like that. Allan F ----- Original Message ----- From: viggenbuilder2 To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 09:11 Subject: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone ) Hi All, I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I looked to get things ready to start priming. I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq feet of paint without any adhesion at all. So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was enough and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done, and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that the filler will be good. Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips, the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to damp conditions? This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the refinishing. I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ? Richard Thomson Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old. richard@... |
|
|
|
Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
I hope be painting early April. Would you care to share some insights?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Joseph Steve <sham@...> wrote: You guys need to be careful about "picking at your bumps". I started doing this 14 months ago and I have been in the process of COMPLETLY stripping and refinishing my plane. I thought I did a good job of finishing the first time....but the second time you really learn how to get the find the PERFECT finish. 40 hours the first time and 200 the second time. Obsessive compulsive behavior... Steve Ham ----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Farr To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone ) Hi. It's funny how these subjects come up. I was picking at some cracked paint on the coaming of my a/c last night and it just started flaking off right down to the fibreglass. I am carefully using a blunt chisel and it's easily coming off. Hope it's not all like that. Allan F ----- Original Message ----- From: viggenbuilder2 To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 09:11 Subject: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone ) Hi All, I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I looked to get things ready to start priming. I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq feet of paint without any adhesion at all. So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was enough and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done, and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that the filler will be good. Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips, the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to damp conditions? This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the refinishing. I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ? Richard Thomson Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old. richard@... |
|
|
|
Steve <sham@...>
The better the prep the better the finish. I am using PPG. Whatever you use make sure it is all the same product after the two part primer/sealer.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
There are a lot of guys on the list with good tips. Some have used a paint booth and some have painted outside. I am using my hanger and building a tent out of visqueen, Go to a auto paint shop and ask for some advice. There are also some good dvd's and several books on "How to. " Good luck Steve Ham ----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph M Snow To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone ) I hope be painting early April. Would you care to share some insights? Joseph Steve <sham@...> wrote: You guys need to be careful about "picking at your bumps". I started doing this 14 months ago and I have been in the process of COMPLETLY stripping and refinishing my plane. I thought I did a good job of finishing the first time....but the second time you really learn how to get the find the PERFECT finish. 40 hours the first time and 200 the second time. Obsessive compulsive behavior... Steve Ham ----- Original Message ----- From: Allan Farr To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone ) Hi. It's funny how these subjects come up. I was picking at some cracked paint on the coaming of my a/c last night and it just started flaking off right down to the fibreglass. I am carefully using a blunt chisel and it's easily coming off. Hope it's not all like that. Allan F ----- Original Message ----- From: viggenbuilder2 To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 09:11 Subject: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone ) Hi All, I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I looked to get things ready to start priming. I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq feet of paint without any adhesion at all. So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was enough and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done, and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that the filler will be good. Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips, the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to damp conditions? This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the refinishing. I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ? Richard Thomson Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old. richard@... |
|
|
|
aerofxinc <aerofxinc@...>
hello guys,
I haven't read the messages in quite a while and have just caught myself up on the paint issues. I am a professional aircraft painter (20 years) and have had my own shop in Fl for seven years; Aero FX. I have painted my share of composite aircraft and I would be happy to help anyone with any questions. From what I've read there seems to be a question about "the black". I'm guessing this is a UV barrier applied at construction. Depending on the type of paint you are using, many newer generation (last 10 years) paints have incredible UV protectors built in. Paint, like the fiberglass on your planes is a resin. Resins are UV sensitive meaning they can be cured by UV rays. Many paints become faded and brittle over time due to the continual curing effect of the sun. Any paint that says "photochemically sensitive" on the can will require a UV base under it. If you have paint already and can't tell, place some uncatalyzed paint on a stirstick and put it in the sun. Most will cure over time but some designed for aircraft use will not cure until catalyzed. These are generally polyurethanes like Jet Glo. It was also mentioned that "gassing" and moisture might be culprits and both are true. Any materials with a poly base are moisture magnets. Make sure to keep your booth, hangar, etc. warm and dry. For gassing, let the product cure out before covering it with something else. Many hi-build primers are poly based and take a long time to cure out completely. (30 days @ 70 degrees) Shrinking is also limited by curing time. That's when you don't see the glass weave after priming and sanding and then it pops up after you've painted and flown for a month! Patience is the only answer. I'm sorry for such a long post but paint is a laboriuos and very meticulous process if you are to expect good results. I am available to answer what I can via this discussion. Mike Gifford --- In Q-LIST@..., "Steve" <sham@...> wrote: you use make sure it is all the same product after the two part primer/sealer. There are a lot of guys on the list with good tips. Some have useda paint booth and some have painted outside. I am using my hanger and building a tent out of visqueen, Go to a auto paint shop and ask for some advice. There are also some good dvd's and several books on "How to. " zone ) insights? started doing this 14 months ago and I have been in the process of COMPLETLY stripping and refinishing my plane. I thought I did a good job of finishing the first time....but the second time you really learn how to get the find the PERFECT finish. 40 hours the first time and 200 the second time. Obsessive compulsive behavior... zone ) cracked paint on the coaming of my a/c last night and it just started flaking off right down to the fibreglass. I am carefully using a blunt chisel and it's easily coming off. Hope it's not all like that. Allan Fzone ) cone before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in midJan, I looked to get things ready to start priming.So I picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about2 sq feet of paint without any adhesion at all.enough and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is nowdone, and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are atlast seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and knowthat the filler will be good.from a neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it cameoff in sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the blacklayer was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layerhad separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paintstrips, the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The blacklayer on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the blacklayer that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is thisrelate to damp conditions?refinishing. I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is anwith the possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys stilluse the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ? |
|
|
|
Kevin Boddicker <trumanst@...>
Richard,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I used UV Smooth Prime from Poly Fiber. It is a catalyzed water born primer applied with a foam roller. I followed with their epoxy primer and top coated with Aerothane. The foam roller fills "most" of the pinholes due to the pressure of the rolling process. It requires six coats, as per the directions. Sands very very smoothly with 320 grit, if you get on it in several days. After a week or so the primer gets too hard to knock down with 320 grit. So 180 will knock it down, and the 320 will smooth it up. The most important thing is to stay with one manufacturer all the way through. Conversations with the Poly Fiber factory also told me to let the epoxy primer cure for at least 48 hours. If not cured the "gas" from the primer might bubble under the Aerothane. If longer than 48 hours the epoxy primer may need to be lightly scuffed before the Aerothane is applied. My paint was applied in the fall of 04. So far so good. Hope this helps Kevin Boddicker Tri Q 200 N7868B 45.7 hours Luana, IA. On Feb 25, 2007, at 2:11 PM, viggenbuilder2 wrote:
Hi All, |
|
|