No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone )


Richard Thomson
 

Hi All,
I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone
before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I
looked to get things ready to start priming.
I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I
picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq
feet of paint without any adhesion at all.
So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was enough
and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done,
and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last
seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that
the filler will be good.
Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a
neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in
sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer
was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had
separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips,
the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer
on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer
that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to
damp conditions?
This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the refinishing.
I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an
effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the
possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use
the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ?

Richard Thomson
Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old.
richard@cloudland.co.uk


Mike Dwyer <mdwyer@...>
 

You need the UV barrier, remember Gore says the Ozone is gone and you don't want your plane melting in the hot sun. Also the paint that peeled off mine was also black on the bottom. I don't think it was so much that the black split. I think it's the out-gassing of the fiberglass that pops the paint off and the black tries to stick to everything... I left an unprotected piece of fiberglass in the sun and after a year the resin was gone leaving only the raw glass. Seems the resin sublimates (solid to gas) in the sun?
Mike N3QP

viggenbuilder2 wrote:

Hi All,
I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I looked to get things ready to start priming. I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq feet of paint without any adhesion at all. So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was enough and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done, and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that the filler will be good.
Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips, the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to damp conditions?
This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the refinishing. I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ?

Richard Thomson
Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old.
richard@cloudland.co.uk




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

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Allan Farr <afarr@...>
 

Hi. It's funny how these subjects come up. I was picking at some cracked paint on the coaming of my a/c last night and it just started flaking off right down to the fibreglass. I am carefully using a blunt chisel and it's easily coming off. Hope it's not all like that.
Allan F

----- Original Message -----
From: viggenbuilder2
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 09:11
Subject: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone )


Hi All,
I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone
before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I
looked to get things ready to start priming.
I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I
picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq
feet of paint without any adhesion at all.
So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was enough
and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done,
and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last
seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that
the filler will be good.
Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a
neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in
sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer
was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had
separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips,
the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer
on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer
that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to
damp conditions?
This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the refinishing.
I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an
effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the
possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use
the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ?

Richard Thomson
Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old.
richard@cloudland.co.uk


Steve <sham@...>
 

You guys need to be careful about "picking at your bumps". I started doing this 14 months ago and I have been in the process of COMPLETLY stripping and refinishing my plane. I thought I did a good job of finishing the first time....but the second time you really learn how to get the find the PERFECT finish. 40 hours the first time and 200 the second time. Obsessive compulsive behavior...


Steve Ham

----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Farr
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone )


Hi. It's funny how these subjects come up. I was picking at some cracked paint on the coaming of my a/c last night and it just started flaking off right down to the fibreglass. I am carefully using a blunt chisel and it's easily coming off. Hope it's not all like that.
Allan F

----- Original Message -----
From: viggenbuilder2
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 09:11
Subject: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone )

Hi All,
I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone
before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I
looked to get things ready to start priming.
I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I
picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq
feet of paint without any adhesion at all.
So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was enough
and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done,
and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last
seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that
the filler will be good.
Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a
neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in
sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer
was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had
separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips,
the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer
on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer
that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to
damp conditions?
This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the refinishing.
I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an
effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the
possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use
the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ?

Richard Thomson
Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old.
richard@cloudland.co.uk


Joseph M Snow <1flashq@...>
 

I hope be painting early April. Would you care to share some insights?

Joseph

Steve <sham@indy.rr.com> wrote:
You guys need to be careful about "picking at your bumps". I started doing this 14 months ago and I have been in the process of COMPLETLY stripping and refinishing my plane. I thought I did a good job of finishing the first time....but the second time you really learn how to get the find the PERFECT finish. 40 hours the first time and 200 the second time. Obsessive compulsive behavior...

Steve Ham

----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Farr
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone )

Hi. It's funny how these subjects come up. I was picking at some cracked paint on the coaming of my a/c last night and it just started flaking off right down to the fibreglass. I am carefully using a blunt chisel and it's easily coming off. Hope it's not all like that.
Allan F

----- Original Message -----
From: viggenbuilder2
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 09:11
Subject: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone )

Hi All,
I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone
before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I
looked to get things ready to start priming.
I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I
picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq
feet of paint without any adhesion at all.
So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was enough
and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done,
and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last
seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that
the filler will be good.
Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a
neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in
sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer
was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had
separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips,
the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer
on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer
that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to
damp conditions?
This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the refinishing.
I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an
effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the
possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use
the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ?

Richard Thomson
Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old.
richard@cloudland.co.uk


Steve <sham@...>
 

The better the prep the better the finish. I am using PPG. Whatever you use make sure it is all the same product after the two part primer/sealer.
There are a lot of guys on the list with good tips. Some have used a paint booth and some have painted outside. I am using my hanger and building a tent out of visqueen, Go to a auto paint shop and ask for some advice. There are also some good dvd's and several books on "How to. "



Good luck Steve Ham

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph M Snow
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone )


I hope be painting early April. Would you care to share some insights?

Joseph

Steve <sham@indy.rr.com> wrote:
You guys need to be careful about "picking at your bumps". I started doing this 14 months ago and I have been in the process of COMPLETLY stripping and refinishing my plane. I thought I did a good job of finishing the first time....but the second time you really learn how to get the find the PERFECT finish. 40 hours the first time and 200 the second time. Obsessive compulsive behavior...

Steve Ham

----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Farr
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone )

Hi. It's funny how these subjects come up. I was picking at some cracked paint on the coaming of my a/c last night and it just started flaking off right down to the fibreglass. I am carefully using a blunt chisel and it's easily coming off. Hope it's not all like that.
Allan F

----- Original Message -----
From: viggenbuilder2
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 09:11
Subject: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral zone )

Hi All,
I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone
before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I
looked to get things ready to start priming.
I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I
picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq
feet of paint without any adhesion at all.
So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was enough
and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done,
and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last
seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that
the filler will be good.
Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a
neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in
sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer
was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had
separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips,
the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer
on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer
that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to
damp conditions?
This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the refinishing.
I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an
effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the
possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use
the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ?

Richard Thomson
Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old.
richard@cloudland.co.uk


aerofxinc <aerofxinc@...>
 

hello guys,
I haven't read the messages in quite a while and have just caught
myself up on the paint issues. I am a professional aircraft painter
(20 years) and have had my own shop in Fl for seven years; Aero FX. I
have painted my share of composite aircraft and I would be happy to
help anyone with any questions. From what I've read there seems to be
a question about "the black". I'm guessing this is a UV barrier
applied at construction. Depending on the type of paint you are
using, many newer generation (last 10 years) paints have incredible
UV protectors built in. Paint, like the fiberglass on your planes is
a resin. Resins are UV sensitive meaning they can be cured by UV
rays. Many paints become faded and brittle over time due to the
continual curing effect of the sun. Any paint that
says "photochemically sensitive" on the can will require a UV base
under it. If you have paint already and can't tell, place some
uncatalyzed paint on a stirstick and put it in the sun. Most will
cure over time but some designed for aircraft use will not cure until
catalyzed. These are generally polyurethanes like Jet Glo.

It was also mentioned that "gassing" and moisture might be culprits
and both are true. Any materials with a poly base are moisture
magnets. Make sure to keep your booth, hangar, etc. warm and dry. For
gassing, let the product cure out before covering it with something
else. Many hi-build primers are poly based and take a long time to
cure out completely. (30 days @ 70 degrees) Shrinking is also limited
by curing time. That's when you don't see the glass weave after
priming and sanding and then it pops up after you've painted and
flown for a month! Patience is the only answer.

I'm sorry for such a long post but paint is a laboriuos and very
meticulous process if you are to expect good results. I am available
to answer what I can via this discussion.

Mike Gifford

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <sham@...> wrote:

The better the prep the better the finish. I am using PPG. Whatever
you use make sure it is all the same product after the two part
primer/sealer.
There are a lot of guys on the list with good tips. Some have used
a paint booth and some have painted outside. I am using my hanger and
building a tent out of visqueen, Go to a auto paint shop and ask for
some advice. There are also some good dvd's and several books on "How
to. "



Good luck Steve Ham



----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph M Snow
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral
zone )


I hope be painting early April. Would you care to share some
insights?

Joseph

Steve <sham@...> wrote:
You guys need to be careful about "picking at your bumps". I
started doing this 14 months ago and I have been in the process of
COMPLETLY stripping and refinishing my plane. I thought I did a good
job of finishing the first time....but the second time you really
learn how to get the find the PERFECT finish. 40 hours the first time
and 200 the second time. Obsessive compulsive behavior...

Steve Ham

----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Farr
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral
zone )

Hi. It's funny how these subjects come up. I was picking at some
cracked paint on the coaming of my a/c last night and it just started
flaking off right down to the fibreglass. I am carefully using a
blunt chisel and it's easily coming off. Hope it's not all like that.
Allan F

----- Original Message -----
From: viggenbuilder2
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 09:11
Subject: [Q-LIST] No More Sun Bumps ( or finding the neutral
zone )

Hi All,
I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail
cone
before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid
Jan, I
looked to get things ready to start priming.
I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared.
So I
picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about
2 sq
feet of paint without any adhesion at all.
So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was
enough
and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now
done,
and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at
last
seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know
that
the filler will be good.
Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip
from a
neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came
off in
sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black
layer
was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer
had
separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint
strips,
the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black
layer
on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black
layer
that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this
relate to
damp conditions?
This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the
refinishing.
I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an
effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer
with the
possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still
use
the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ?

Richard Thomson
Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old.
richard@...

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Kevin Boddicker <trumanst@...>
 

Richard,
I used UV Smooth Prime from Poly Fiber. It is a catalyzed water born
primer applied with a foam roller. I followed with their epoxy primer
and top coated with Aerothane.
The foam roller fills "most" of the pinholes due to the pressure of
the rolling process.
It requires six coats, as per the directions. Sands very very
smoothly with 320 grit, if you get on it in several days. After a
week or so the primer gets too hard to knock down with 320 grit. So
180 will knock it down, and the 320 will smooth it up.
The most important thing is to stay with one manufacturer all the way
through.
Conversations with the Poly Fiber factory also told me to let the
epoxy primer cure for at least 48 hours. If not cured the "gas" from
the primer might bubble under the Aerothane.
If longer than 48 hours the epoxy primer may need to be lightly
scuffed before the Aerothane is applied.
My paint was applied in the fall of 04. So far so good.
Hope this helps
Kevin Boddicker
Tri Q 200 N7868B 45.7 hours
Luana, IA.

On Feb 25, 2007, at 2:11 PM, viggenbuilder2 wrote:

Hi All,
I had dealt with all the bumps that had been there on the tail cone
before Xmas, so after the cold spell began to lift back in mid Jan, I
looked to get things ready to start priming.
I started sanding back, and noticed some more bumps had appeared. So I
picked at these and bingo, before I knew it I had stripped about 2 sq
feet of paint without any adhesion at all.
So with Mike D's advice ringing in my head, I decided enough was
enough
and set to work to strip it all off the tail cone. This is now done,
and I have started to refill with epoxy filler and things are at last
seemingly better. At least I can now see the substrate and know that
the filler will be good.
Now the interesting part is that all the paint seemed to strip from a
neutral zone (To pinch a term from Star Trek), which as it came off in
sheets or strips, the paint was black on the back, but the black layer
was still on the surface it had come off of. So the black layer had
separated causing the lack of adherance. Looking at the paint strips,
the black on the back was firmly adhered to the paint. The black layer
on the tail cone was also firmly attached. So it was the black layer
that had "split"! Has anybody else had this happen ? Is this relate to
damp conditions?
This has caused me to wonder what to do with regard to the
refinishing.
I am using epoxy primer, and two pack poly top coat, which is an
effective UV barrier, so do I need to reapply the black layer with the
possible further problem of lack of adhesion ? Do you guys still use
the black UV layer, or have you all moved on from it now ?

Richard Thomson
Tri Q G-BMFN 368 hours old.
richard@cloudland.co.uk