Liability Question


Keith Welsh <kfly@...>
 

Is he being advised correctly?
We have a member of our EAA chapter who will turn 86 on Oct. 30th.
He is a former WWII fighter pilot and has built and restored several aircraft over the years.

He is planning to fly the Spacewalker he built one last time on his birthday and then donate it.
His attorney said that he will prepare a disclaimer the beneficiary must sign prior to taking possession of the aircraft. The attorney said this will free the builder of any liability connection should the beneficiary sell the plane in flying condition which is probably what will happen.

Question:
Is this correct.

Thanx
Keith Welsh
Quickie N494K


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Patrick Panzera <panzera@...>
 

Is he being advised correctly?
Hi Keith,

In this litigious country, nothing can spare him or his heirs from any law
suit. The best thing for him would be to donate it with the stipulation that
it be deconstructed and sold as parts, or donate it to a museum with the
same stipulation.

Either way it's a sin for a flying aircraft to ever be decommissioned,
especially one that was built by an amateur, with his own hands.

One option, and I'll be blatant about this, is to have him donate it to us.
We can keep it flying and use it for a very good cause, to help promote our
charity. We'll sign any "covenant not to sue" that his attorney would write,
including any restrictions he may want us to follow.

As far as I can tell, we have the only charity out there, for aviators, by
aviators, especially experimental aviators.

http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue72/NewCharity.html

BTW, I'm picking up a donated Dragonfly this weekend.

Pat

We have a member of our EAA chapter who will turn 86 on Oct. 30th.
He is a former WWII fighter pilot and has built and restored several
aircraft over the years.

He is planning to fly the Spacewalker he built one last time on his
birthday and then donate it.
His attorney said that he will prepare a disclaimer the beneficiary must
sign prior to taking possession of the aircraft. The attorney said this
will free the builder of any liability connection should the beneficiary
sell the plane in flying condition which is probably what will happen.

Question:
Is this correct.

Thanx
Keith Welsh
Quickie N494K


Keith Welsh <kfly@...>
 

Thanks Pat:

I'll pass this along. I think he already has a group he's planning on giving it to.
But one never knows. You might want to tell me more about your organization in case.
Give a hollar at kfly@... if you want to be off list.

Keith

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Panzera
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Liability Question


> Is he being advised correctly?

Hi Keith,

In this litigious country, nothing can spare him or his heirs from any law
suit. The best thing for him would be to donate it with the stipulation that
it be deconstructed and sold as parts, or donate it to a museum with the
same stipulation.

Either way it's a sin for a flying aircraft to ever be decommissioned,
especially one that was built by an amateur, with his own hands.

One option, and I'll be blatant about this, is to have him donate it to us.
We can keep it flying and use it for a very good cause, to help promote our
charity. We'll sign any "covenant not to sue" that his attorney would write,
including any restrictions he may want us to follow.

As far as I can tell, we have the only charity out there, for aviators, by
aviators, especially experimental aviators.

http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue72/NewCharity.html

BTW, I'm picking up a donated Dragonfly this weekend.

Pat

> We have a member of our EAA chapter who will turn 86 on Oct. 30th.
> He is a former WWII fighter pilot and has built and restored several
> aircraft over the years.
>
> He is planning to fly the Spacewalker he built one last time on his
> birthday and then donate it.
> His attorney said that he will prepare a disclaimer the beneficiary must
> sign prior to taking possession of the aircraft. The attorney said this
> will free the builder of any liability connection should the beneficiary
> sell the plane in flying condition which is probably what will happen.
>
> Question:
> Is this correct.
>
> Thanx
> Keith Welsh
> Quickie N494K




____________________________________________________________
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Allan Farr
 

Could his heirs be liable? That's ridiculous. Put the a/c in a container & send it to a more sensible country;)
Allan

----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Welsh
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Liability Question


Thanks Pat:

I'll pass this along. I think he already has a group he's planning on giving it to.
But one never knows. You might want to tell me more about your organization in case.
Give a hollar at kfly@... if you want to be off list.

Keith

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Panzera
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Liability Question

> Is he being advised correctly?

Hi Keith,

In this litigious country, nothing can spare him or his heirs from any law
suit. The best thing for him would be to donate it with the stipulation that
it be deconstructed and sold as parts, or donate it to a museum with the
same stipulation.

Either way it's a sin for a flying aircraft to ever be decommissioned,
especially one that was built by an amateur, with his own hands.

One option, and I'll be blatant about this, is to have him donate it to us.
We can keep it flying and use it for a very good cause, to help promote our
charity. We'll sign any "covenant not to sue" that his attorney would write,
including any restrictions he may want us to follow.

As far as I can tell, we have the only charity out there, for aviators, by
aviators, especially experimental aviators.

http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue72/NewCharity.html

BTW, I'm picking up a donated Dragonfly this weekend.

Pat

> We have a member of our EAA chapter who will turn 86 on Oct. 30th.
> He is a former WWII fighter pilot and has built and restored several
> aircraft over the years.
>
> He is planning to fly the Spacewalker he built one last time on his
> birthday and then donate it.
> His attorney said that he will prepare a disclaimer the beneficiary must
> sign prior to taking possession of the aircraft. The attorney said this
> will free the builder of any liability connection should the beneficiary
> sell the plane in flying condition which is probably what will happen.
>
> Question:
> Is this correct.
>
> Thanx
> Keith Welsh
> Quickie N494K

__________________________________________________________
Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business.
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Mark Keeley <markee1@...>
 

put it in a container and ship it to me.I wont hold ANYONE responsible.. (and I would appeciate it toooo)
Mark Keeley

----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Farr
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Liability Question


Could his heirs be liable? That's ridiculous. Put the a/c in a container & send it to a more sensible country;)
Allan

----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Welsh
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Liability Question

Thanks Pat:

I'll pass this along. I think he already has a group he's planning on giving it to.
But one never knows. You might want to tell me more about your organization in case.
Give a hollar at kfly@... if you want to be off list.

Keith

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Panzera
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Liability Question

> Is he being advised correctly?

Hi Keith,

In this litigious country, nothing can spare him or his heirs from any law
suit. The best thing for him would be to donate it with the stipulation that
it be deconstructed and sold as parts, or donate it to a museum with the
same stipulation.

Either way it's a sin for a flying aircraft to ever be decommissioned,
especially one that was built by an amateur, with his own hands.

One option, and I'll be blatant about this, is to have him donate it to us.
We can keep it flying and use it for a very good cause, to help promote our
charity. We'll sign any "covenant not to sue" that his attorney would write,
including any restrictions he may want us to follow.

As far as I can tell, we have the only charity out there, for aviators, by
aviators, especially experimental aviators.

http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue72/NewCharity.html

BTW, I'm picking up a donated Dragonfly this weekend.

Pat

> We have a member of our EAA chapter who will turn 86 on Oct. 30th.
> He is a former WWII fighter pilot and has built and restored several
> aircraft over the years.
>
> He is planning to fly the Spacewalker he built one last time on his
> birthday and then donate it.
> His attorney said that he will prepare a disclaimer the beneficiary must
> sign prior to taking possession of the aircraft. The attorney said this
> will free the builder of any liability connection should the beneficiary
> sell the plane in flying condition which is probably what will happen.
>
> Question:
> Is this correct.
>
> Thanx
> Keith Welsh
> Quickie N494K

__________________________________________________________
Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m7tD0VO5edseKARXtDnYkSerzGDRoiwnJOdPoxDsIxmy2VK/


JMasal@...
 

A young couple, both lawyers, moved onto my block about 6 mo. ago. Turns out
the wife is a pilot and specializes in aviation law. In a recent discussion
around the fire hydrant she told me that if the sales contract is properly
worded there should be no worry about liability after the sale. Her father owns
an experimental so she is familiar with homebuilts.

j.
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Mike Perry <dmperry1012@...>
 

In general, "if the sales contract is properly worded there should be no
worry about liability after the sale" should be true. In practice,
defending against a meritless lawsuit is expensive. Personally that
wouldn't stop me from selling an experimental, but I would be vary careful
with disclosure of flying characteristics and I would emphasize that this
is an EXPERIMENTAL. (Please note I am not a lawyer, get real advice if
this matter concerns you.)

A friend of mine, another physician, was trying to get an "umbrella" policy
for general liability. One of the questions asked was, "do you stop at
accidents to render assistance?" His answer was yes (we live in a rural
area; of course you stop). The company doubled the premium based on his
answer to that question, despite a "Good Samaritan" law here in
California. When he asked the company why they said: we would expect to
win the case, but the defense would be expensive.

From an earlier post: "Could his heirs be liable?" I don't think his
heirs could be liable, but one could sue the estate and try to extract
money from the heirs in that way. (again, I am not a lawyer)

Mike Perry

At 08:48 AM 10/22/2008 -0400, you wrote:
A young couple, both lawyers, moved onto my block about 6 mo. ago. Turns out
the wife is a pilot and specializes in aviation law. In a recent discussion
around the fire hydrant she told me that if the sales contract is properly
worded there should be no worry about liability after the sale. Her father
owns
an experimental so she is familiar with homebuilts.

j.


JMasal@...
 

I'm thinking that if the defense of a properly worded contract is expensive
then the bringing of that suit is also very expensive. So if you're selling an
experimental acft to someone with an obvious big pile of money mebbe you
oughta re-think that.

j.
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Mike Perry <dmperry1012@...>
 

Jimmie:

Think contingency fees. Has little to do with the $$$ on hand -- the
lawyer is betting his time that he can extort something out of the defendant.

Mike Perry

At 06:55 PM 10/22/2008 -0400, you wrote:
I'm thinking that if the defense of a properly worded contract is expensive
then the bringing of that suit is also very expensive. So if you're
selling an
experimental acft to someone with an obvious big pile of money mebbe you
oughta re-think that.

j.


Patrick Panzera <panzera@...>
 

Jimmy,

In all seriousness, would you ask your friends how much they'd charge me for
such a contract? I'm willing to pay for it and use it whenever anyone
donates a plane to us.

Thanks!

Pat

I'm thinking that if the defense of a properly worded contract is
expensive
then the bringing of that suit is also very expensive. So if you're
selling an
experimental acft to someone with an obvious big pile of money mebbe you
oughta re-think that.

j.
**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your
favorites,
no registration required and great graphics - check it out!
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http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)


Mark A. Pearson <wlkabout@...>
 

Jim:
Any chance you can get her to give you an example of the relevant part(s) of a "properly worded sales contract?"

M

----- Original Message -----
From: JMasal@...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Liability Question


A young couple, both lawyers, moved onto my block about 6 mo. ago. Turns out
the wife is a pilot and specializes in aviation law. In a recent discussion
around the fire hydrant she told me that if the sales contract is properly
worded there should be no worry about liability after the sale. Her father owns
an experimental so she is familiar with homebuilts.

j.
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)