Electrical Questions


Jeff M. <jeffm@...>
 

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the next
step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit wiring
that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR?

One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as well,
correct?)


Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B


jon@...
 

Hi Jeff,

In my opinion, the electrical side of an aircraft is a whole educational task of its own. Please get Bob Knuckols book and read/understand it (www. aeroelectric.com).

Some tips:
1. Never use automotive wiring/connectors in a plane. This includes the cheap crimp connectors, wire nuts, cheap wire, etc...
2. Use aircraft quality tezfel wiring (available at AS&S, Steinair.com, Wicks, B&C Specialties, etc...).
3. Follow the product manufacturers recommendation for wire sizes and sheilding. Sheilded wiring is used only in circuits that are noise generators or sensative to noise.
4. The majority of your wiring will be 22ga but again, follow the product instructions.
5. Get yourself GOOD AMP connectors and a good crimper - it is money well spent.

You are probably correct on the antenna. COM is mounted vertically, NAV horizontally.
Yes to the transponder antenna - these are usually a very shot vertical antenna (about 4" long).

You do not have to have the aircraft re-inspected when thinking in terms of an airworthiness certificate. Depending on the version of your existing Op. Lims., you might want to update them to the 8130-2F version (EAA site explains how). With those in hand, you will know what is required for "approval" to begin flying and what testing is required.

Hth,

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jeff M." <jeffm@...>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:16pm
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Electrical Questions

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the next
step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit wiring
that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR?

One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as well,
correct?)


Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B


jonfinley2001 <jon@...>
 

Hi Jeff,

Before making on OpLims comments I should have asked:

How much time is on the airframe and is it in Phase 2 operation (out of the test period)?

Jon

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jeff M." <jeffm@...> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the next
step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit wiring
that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR?

One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as well,
correct?)


Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Mike Dwyer <mdwyer@...>
 

I will suggest scraping the VOR for a good color GPS. I flew with both for years until I forgot how to use the vor.

Finding where your builder installed the antennas could be tough. I've seen at Harbor Freight this circuit tracer thing. It injects a signal into a wire and then a hand held thing buzzes when it gets near the wire. That might work to trace an antenna.

Put all your switches and fuses in one removable box on the panel. This way to add a wire or make a change, you pull the box, you don't try and squeeze your body under the instrument panel.

Check out my panel at:
http://www.warnerair.com/q200/pnl_2008.html

Mike Q200 N3QP


Jeff M. wrote:

Hi Everyone,
I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the next
step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit wiring
that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR?
One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as well,
correct?)
Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B


Jeff M. <jeffm@...>
 

Thanks for your answers so far;

Mike,
My thinking with the Collins VOR was to upgrade it to an ILS indicator
with a glidesope receiver in the future, and also use a setup similar to
yours that uses the APIC. If I can't find space on the panel the VOR
will be the first thing to go. I'm not sure if I'll get a tablet PC or
a pocket PC. I've used my Compaq laptop as a ground GPS before and
almost every time I'm on a decent road trip something fails, I could
imagine that being exponentially more frustrating in the air. Have you
had any issues with yours? Any suggestions on screen size? Does APIC
have the highway in the sky feature? I thought that was pretty cool on
BMA and Dynon, but BMA is no longer....


Jon,
The previous owner did not complete phase 1 on the C-85. I presume I'll
have to get it amended to include my area as the flight test area
instead, in addition to the Day VFR.

Can it ever be a bad thing to use shielded wire when not necessary? Of
course it weighs and costs more but. other than that.


Can the ELT share antennas with the Com or would they be best alone?



Thanks again,
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of jonfinley2001
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions


Hi Jeff,

Before making on OpLims comments I should have asked:

How much time is on the airframe and is it in Phase 2 operation (out of
the test period)?

Jon

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Jeff
M." <jeffm@...> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the
next
step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit
wiring
that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR?

One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as
well,
correct?)


Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B




Mike Perry
 

Jeff:

Your plane was licensed in 1998 but never finished phase 1 testing? I would want to know why.

If the problem was ground handling, we have learned a lot about ground handling since 1998. Study the Gall article on Wheel alignment (on the QBA website) and the Jim Patillo/Bob Farnum 6 pack (original thread starts 12/21/01 on this list). You could also read what Mike Dwyer wrote about how his wheel alignment gradually changed as his plane aged -- it's on his website with the stuff about repainting the plane.

If you can't find out why, I would figure ground handling until proven otherwise -- it's the most common problem with these planes.

Mike Perry

Jeff M. wrote:


Thanks for your answers so far;

Mike,
My thinking with the Collins VOR was to upgrade it to an ILS indicator
with a glidesope receiver in the future, and also use a setup similar to
yours that uses the APIC. If I can't find space on the panel the VOR
will be the first thing to go. I'm not sure if I'll get a tablet PC or
a pocket PC. I've used my Compaq laptop as a ground GPS before and
almost every time I'm on a decent road trip something fails, I could
imagine that being exponentially more frustrating in the air. Have you
had any issues with yours? Any suggestions on screen size? Does APIC
have the highway in the sky feature? I thought that was pretty cool on
BMA and Dynon, but BMA is no longer....


Jon,
The previous owner did not complete phase 1 on the C-85. I presume I'll
have to get it amended to include my area as the flight test area
instead, in addition to the Day VFR.

Can it ever be a bad thing to use shielded wire when not necessary? Of
course it weighs and costs more but. other than that.


Can the ELT share antennas with the Com or would they be best alone?



Thanks again,
Jeff



-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
Of jonfinley2001
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions


Hi Jeff,

Before making on OpLims comments I should have asked:

How much time is on the airframe and is it in Phase 2 operation (out of
the test period)?

Jon

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Jeff
M." <jeffm@...> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the
next
step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit
wiring
that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR?

One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as
well,
correct?)


Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B


_._,___


jon@...
 

Jeff,

You are in kind of a strange state as far as your operating limitations and airworthiness certificate are concerned. You are likely to get advice that ranges from one end of the spectrum to the other. I would spend some time to researching your local FAA inspectors. Find out which one is friendly and helpful to homebuilders. Then talk to EAA or those in the know about your situation and figure out what the right answer is. Then talk to the "good" inspector in your area, tell him about your situation, what you expect to happen, and ask for his help. I am not an expert but I think you should be able to re-assemble the airplane, make logbook endorsements for the changes, get a condition inspection (A&P since you don't have the repairman's certificate), and then ask the FAA for amended flight test area. That is definately the case once into phase II but you never know with the FAA.

COM/NAV/XPER antennas are all different/not shared. I'm not smart enought to tell you why, I just know that it is never done. ;-)

The cardinal rule in homebuilding is "simplify and add lightness" - using sheilded wires where not required violates that rule. Sheilded wire (and appropriately grounding one end) adds a bunch of complexity and time to every wire. No, it is not "bad".

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jeff M." <jeffm@...>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:57pm
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions

Thanks for your answers so far;

Mike,
My thinking with the Collins VOR was to upgrade it to an ILS indicator
with a glidesope receiver in the future, and also use a setup similar to
yours that uses the APIC. If I can't find space on the panel the VOR
will be the first thing to go. I'm not sure if I'll get a tablet PC or
a pocket PC. I've used my Compaq laptop as a ground GPS before and
almost every time I'm on a decent road trip something fails, I could
imagine that being exponentially more frustrating in the air. Have you
had any issues with yours? Any suggestions on screen size? Does APIC
have the highway in the sky feature? I thought that was pretty cool on
BMA and Dynon, but BMA is no longer....


Jon,
The previous owner did not complete phase 1 on the C-85. I presume I'll
have to get it amended to include my area as the flight test area
instead, in addition to the Day VFR.

Can it ever be a bad thing to use shielded wire when not necessary? Of
course it weighs and costs more but. other than that.


Can the ELT share antennas with the Com or would they be best alone?



Thanks again,
Jeff



-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of jonfinley2001
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions


Hi Jeff,

Before making on OpLims comments I should have asked:

How much time is on the airframe and is it in Phase 2 operation (out of
the test period)?

Jon

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Jeff
M." <jeffm@...> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the
next
step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit
wiring
that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR?

One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as
well,
correct?)


Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B









------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links


Larry Severson
 

Can the ELT share antennas with the Com or would they be best alone?
Not a good idea to share antennas. Every division causes a loss of signal strength, even if one is not being used (50% in this case). And, if you get a new 406 ELT, you will need a new antenna.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


f.worrell@...
 

I have downloaded APIC and have played with it on my laptop. Very impressive. They let you download the map version for free. The expensive version (with the terrain data) is roughly $100. Well worth it. Many really great features.

They also have a FREE Easy Taxi program that will show you where you are on the airport runways. All the towered airports are in there.

Mike is really on to something.

Fred

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Dwyer" <mdwyer@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:24:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions






My APIC tablet has been working great. I get where I'm going. pop it
off the instrument panel and use it to access the internet then plug in
a USB gps and use Microsoft Streets to navigate the car to where ever
I'm going. It's awesome. The 10.3" screen is fine, don't think I'd be
happy with smaller.
Mike

Jeff M. wrote:
Thanks for your answers so far;

Mike,
My thinking with the Collins VOR was to upgrade it to an ILS indicator
with a glidesope receiver in the future, and also use a setup similar to
yours that uses the APIC. If I can't find space on the panel the VOR
will be the first thing to go. I'm not sure if I'll get a tablet PC or
a pocket PC. I've used my Compaq laptop as a ground GPS before and
almost every time I'm on a decent road trip something fails, I could
imagine that being exponentially more frustrating in the air. Have you
had any issues with yours? Any suggestions on screen size? Does APIC
have the highway in the sky feature? I thought that was pretty cool on
BMA and Dynon, but BMA is no longer....


Jon,
The previous owner did not complete phase 1 on the C-85. I presume I'll
have to get it amended to include my area as the flight test area
instead, in addition to the Day VFR.

Can it ever be a bad thing to use shielded wire when not necessary? Of
course it weighs and costs more but. other than that.


Can the ELT share antennas with the Com or would they be best alone?



Thanks again,
Jeff



-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto: Q-LIST@... ] On Behalf
Of jonfinley2001
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions


Hi Jeff,

Before making on OpLims comments I should have asked:

How much time is on the airframe and is it in Phase 2 operation (out of
the test period)?

Jon

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Jeff
M." <jeffm@...> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the
next

step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit
wiring

that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR?

One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as
well,

correct?)


Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Mike Dwyer <mdwyer@...>
 

My APIC tablet has been working great. I get where I'm going. pop it off the instrument panel and use it to access the internet then plug in a USB gps and use Microsoft Streets to navigate the car to where ever I'm going. It's awesome. The 10.3" screen is fine, don't think I'd be happy with smaller.
Mike


Jeff M. wrote:

Thanks for your answers so far;
Mike,
My thinking with the Collins VOR was to upgrade it to an ILS indicator
with a glidesope receiver in the future, and also use a setup similar to
yours that uses the APIC. If I can't find space on the panel the VOR
will be the first thing to go. I'm not sure if I'll get a tablet PC or
a pocket PC. I've used my Compaq laptop as a ground GPS before and
almost every time I'm on a decent road trip something fails, I could
imagine that being exponentially more frustrating in the air. Have you
had any issues with yours? Any suggestions on screen size? Does APIC
have the highway in the sky feature? I thought that was pretty cool on
BMA and Dynon, but BMA is no longer....
Jon,
The previous owner did not complete phase 1 on the C-85. I presume I'll
have to get it amended to include my area as the flight test area
instead, in addition to the Day VFR.
Can it ever be a bad thing to use shielded wire when not necessary? Of
course it weighs and costs more but. other than that.
Can the ELT share antennas with the Com or would they be best alone?
Thanks again,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of jonfinley2001
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions
Hi Jeff,

Before making on OpLims comments I should have asked:

How much time is on the airframe and is it in Phase 2 operation (out of
the test period)?

Jon

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Jeff
M." <jeffm@...> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the
next

step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit
wiring

that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR?

One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as
well,

correct?)


Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B








------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links





Mike Dwyer <mdwyer@...>
 

My APIC tablet has been working great. I get where I'm going. pop it off the instrument panel and use it to access the internet then plug in a USB gps and use Microsoft Streets to navigate the car to where ever I'm going. It's awesome. The 10.3" screen is fine, don't think I'd be happy with smaller. No Highway in the sky yet.
Mike


Jeff M. wrote:

Thanks for your answers so far;
Mike,
My thinking with the Collins VOR was to upgrade it to an ILS indicator
with a glidesope receiver in the future, and also use a setup similar to
yours that uses the APIC. If I can't find space on the panel the VOR
will be the first thing to go. I'm not sure if I'll get a tablet PC or
a pocket PC. I've used my Compaq laptop as a ground GPS before and
almost every time I'm on a decent road trip something fails, I could
imagine that being exponentially more frustrating in the air. Have you
had any issues with yours? Any suggestions on screen size? Does APIC
have the highway in the sky feature? I thought that was pretty cool on
BMA and Dynon, but BMA is no longer....
Jon,
The previous owner did not complete phase 1 on the C-85. I presume I'll
have to get it amended to include my area as the flight test area
instead, in addition to the Day VFR.
Can it ever be a bad thing to use shielded wire when not necessary? Of
course it weighs and costs more but. other than that.
Can the ELT share antennas with the Com or would they be best alone?
Thanks again,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of jonfinley2001
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions
Hi Jeff,

Before making on OpLims comments I should have asked:

How much time is on the airframe and is it in Phase 2 operation (out of
the test period)?

Jon

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Jeff
M." <jeffm@...> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the
next

step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit
wiring

that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR?

One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as
well,

correct?)


Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B








------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links





Jeff M. <jeffm@...>
 

Mike P,
The last entry in the log book states that it "likes to skid left.
Handles well." I contacted the previous owner just for more input. The
airframe has 55+ hours on it, but hasn't flown in 11 years. I'll
definitely check the alignment stuff out. It actually has a steel
tailspring and different swivel assembly on it already, shortly after it
was built the original spring broke. but I'd still prefer a pneumatic
tail wheel. That is the biggest element of added control in the
crosswinds isn't it?


Jon,
You sure are right about that, but it sounds like there is hope in
getting the mess untaggled though. I spoke with an EAA friendly DAR and
he doesn't think it would be a big deal at all, pretty much just update
the operating limitations to the newer versions and change the flight
test location. Then I'd just have to burn off the flight test time.

Speaking in general what typically uses shielded?


Larry,
I just picked up an AK-450 ELT, it was supposed to have its own small
metal antenna that just pops on it but it didn't come with it. I guess
I'll keep an eye out for one, or try fabbing up a bent C for Com and use
the foil for ELT. hmm.


Mike D,
Do you share the same sensors as the D10 or is it running via its own
GPS?


Fred,
I'll definitely have to give that a test drive, sounds like it is a
great product for a very reasonable price.


Thanks for all the answers,
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of f.worrell@...
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:41 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions


I have downloaded APIC and have played with it on my laptop. Very
impressive. They let you download the map version for free. The
expensive version (with the terrain data) is roughly $100. Well worth
it. Many really great features.

They also have a FREE Easy Taxi program that will show you where you are
on the airport runways. All the towered airports are in there.

Mike is really on to something.

Fred

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Dwyer" <mdwyer@tampabay. <mailto:mdwyer%40tampabay.rr.com>
rr.com>
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:24:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central

Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions

My APIC tablet has been working great. I get where I'm going. pop it
off the instrument panel and use it to access the internet then plug in
a USB gps and use Microsoft Streets to navigate the car to where ever
I'm going. It's awesome. The 10.3" screen is fine, don't think I'd be
happy with smaller.
Mike

Jeff M. wrote:
Thanks for your answers so far;

Mike,
My thinking with the Collins VOR was to upgrade it to an ILS indicator
with a glidesope receiver in the future, and also use a setup similar
to
yours that uses the APIC. If I can't find space on the panel the VOR
will be the first thing to go. I'm not sure if I'll get a tablet PC or
a pocket PC. I've used my Compaq laptop as a ground GPS before and
almost every time I'm on a decent road trip something fails, I could
imagine that being exponentially more frustrating in the air. Have you
had any issues with yours? Any suggestions on screen size? Does APIC
have the highway in the sky feature? I thought that was pretty cool on
BMA and Dynon, but BMA is no longer....


Jon,
The previous owner did not complete phase 1 on the C-85. I presume
I'll
have to get it amended to include my area as the flight test area
instead, in addition to the Day VFR.

Can it ever be a bad thing to use shielded wire when not necessary? Of
course it weighs and costs more but. other than that.


Can the ELT share antennas with the Com or would they be best alone?



Thanks again,
Jeff



-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com ] On
Behalf
Of jonfinley2001
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions


Hi Jeff,

Before making on OpLims comments I should have asked:

How much time is on the airframe and is it in Phase 2 operation (out
of
the test period)?

Jon

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com,
"Jeff
M." <jeffm@...> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the
sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the
next

step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience
with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit
wiring

that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding
wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of
the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this
is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there
a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR?

One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it
states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as
well,

correct?)


Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B










------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links





Mike Perry
 

Jeff:

It has 55 hours on it but still in phase 1? Is there some other history here? If the plane completed phase 1 testing (usually 40 hours) and then was put back in phase 1 for an engine change? If so that's a different situation.

You also wrote, "I'd still prefer a pneumatic tail wheel. That is the biggest element of added control in the crosswinds isn't it?" Jim Patillo likes to say the 6 pack works as a system, you can't pick and choose parts which parts of the 6 pack to install. I would say that QAC made compromises in designing the brakes and tail wheel such that the Q2 is unstable on the ground; If you fully understand what each element of the 6 pack does then you can make choices. Just for review, the 6-pack consists of: a.. Reflexor mod b.. Belly board mod c.. La Rue Brake mod d.. Toe brake mod e.. Bellcrank mod f.. Full swiveling tail wheel mod.

There are other successful flying Qs but every Q with those 6 mods has been a success. Some alternatives include the Coughlin brake mod which is similar to the La Rue mod and possibly easier to install; differential hand brakes are easier to install but may be less ergononic than toe brakes; the belly board mod doesn't affect ground handling much but makes it easier to land on the spot you choose. I suggest you seriously consider the entire 6 pack for a plane that "likes to skid left." I think you can find some "before and after" discussions in the archives.

Mike Perry

Jeff M. wrote:


Mike P,
The last entry in the log book states that it "likes to skid left.
Handles well." I contacted the previous owner just for more input. The
airframe has 55+ hours on it, but hasn't flown in 11 years. I'll
definitely check the alignment stuff out. It actually has a steel
tailspring and different swivel assembly on it already, shortly after it
was built the original spring broke. but I'd still prefer a pneumatic
tail wheel. That is the biggest element of added control in the
crosswinds isn't it?


Jon,
You sure are right about that, but it sounds like there is hope in
getting the mess untaggled though. I spoke with an EAA friendly DAR and
he doesn't think it would be a big deal at all, pretty much just update
the operating limitations to the newer versions and change the flight
test location. Then I'd just have to burn off the flight test time.

Speaking in general what typically uses shielded?


Larry,
I just picked up an AK-450 ELT, it was supposed to have its own small
metal antenna that just pops on it but it didn't come with it. I guess
I'll keep an eye out for one, or try fabbing up a bent C for Com and use
the foil for ELT. hmm.


Mike D,
Do you share the same sensors as the D10 or is it running via its own
GPS?


Fred,
I'll definitely have to give that a test drive, sounds like it is a
great product for a very reasonable price.


Thanks for all the answers,
Jeff

___


Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

OK, what is APIC???

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: f.worrell@...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions


I have downloaded APIC and have played with it on my laptop. Very impressive. They let you download the map version for free. The expensive version (with the terrain data) is roughly $100. Well worth it. Many really great features.

They also have a FREE Easy Taxi program that will show you where you are on the airport runways. All the towered airports are in there.

Mike is really on to something.

Fred

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Dwyer" <mdwyer@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:24:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions

My APIC tablet has been working great. I get where I'm going. pop it
off the instrument panel and use it to access the internet then plug in
a USB gps and use Microsoft Streets to navigate the car to where ever
I'm going. It's awesome. The 10.3" screen is fine, don't think I'd be
happy with smaller.
Mike

Jeff M. wrote:
> Thanks for your answers so far;
>
> Mike,
> My thinking with the Collins VOR was to upgrade it to an ILS indicator
> with a glidesope receiver in the future, and also use a setup similar to
> yours that uses the APIC. If I can't find space on the panel the VOR
> will be the first thing to go. I'm not sure if I'll get a tablet PC or
> a pocket PC. I've used my Compaq laptop as a ground GPS before and
> almost every time I'm on a decent road trip something fails, I could
> imagine that being exponentially more frustrating in the air. Have you
> had any issues with yours? Any suggestions on screen size? Does APIC
> have the highway in the sky feature? I thought that was pretty cool on
> BMA and Dynon, but BMA is no longer....
>
>
> Jon,
> The previous owner did not complete phase 1 on the C-85. I presume I'll
> have to get it amended to include my area as the flight test area
> instead, in addition to the Day VFR.
>
> Can it ever be a bad thing to use shielded wire when not necessary? Of
> course it weighs and costs more but. other than that.
>
>
> Can the ELT share antennas with the Com or would they be best alone?
>
>
>
> Thanks again,
> Jeff
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Q-LIST@... [mailto: Q-LIST@... ] On Behalf
> Of jonfinley2001
> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:52 PM
> To: Q-LIST@...
> Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions
>
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Before making on OpLims comments I should have asked:
>
> How much time is on the airframe and is it in Phase 2 operation (out of
> the test period)?
>
> Jon
>
> --- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Jeff
> M." <jeffm@...> wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
>> information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
>> (C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
>> uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
>> filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the
>>
> next
>
>> step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
>> plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/
>> COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
>> aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit
>>
> wiring
>
>> that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
>> wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
>> gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
>> just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
>> avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
>> foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
>> Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a
>> way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
>> XPDR?
>>
>> One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
>> Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
>> equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as
>>
> well,
>
>> correct?)
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jeff McComb
>> N3245B
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>


Sam Hoskins
 

Just one man's opinion - and I have discussed this with the primary's many
times. I think the 6-pack is good. However, if it was me, I'd just make it
a 5 pack. I don't see a real need for the intermediate bellcrank and I
don't think it contributes to the handling issues. I once taxied Jim's
plane and it was impressive, but I think the biggest factors were the Gall
wheel alignment and the tail wheel setup. Finger brakes or toe brakes is
just a matter of personal preference.

As far as brakes go, I have used the stock QAC, the Larue Brakes, and the
Coughlin. For my money, the Coughlin are the best - so far - for the tail
draggers. I don't know about the Tri's.

When trying to troubleshoot a handling problem, it would be really
beneficial to find an experienced Q guy to come and see it. Buy his gas,
feed him, and he will come.

The late Art Jewett was having all sorts of handling problems. No amount of
e-mails or phone calls would sort out the problem, but I found it within
about 45 seconds of taxi time. His problem lay in the dual rudder pedal
set-up he had, but I had to drive it around to figure it out. After the
diagnosis, he was all better in a week.

Hoping to make it to BEAT RICE.

Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL

On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Mike Perry <dmperry1012@...> wrote:



Jeff:

It has 55 hours on it but still in phase 1? Is there some other
history here? If the plane completed phase 1 testing (usually 40 hours)
and then was put back in phase 1 for an engine change? If so that's a
different situation.

You also wrote, "I'd still prefer a pneumatic tail wheel. That is the
biggest element of added control in the crosswinds isn't it?" Jim
Patillo likes to say the 6 pack works as a system, you can't pick and
choose parts which parts of the 6 pack to install. I would say that QAC
made compromises in designing the brakes and tail wheel such that the Q2
is unstable on the ground; If you fully understand what each element of
the 6 pack does then you can make choices. Just for review, the
6-pack consists of: a.. Reflexor mod b.. Belly board mod c.. La
Rue Brake mod d.. Toe brake mod e.. Bellcrank mod f.. Full
swiveling tail wheel mod.

There are other successful flying Qs but every Q with those 6 mods has
been a success. Some alternatives include the Coughlin brake mod which
is similar to the La Rue mod and possibly easier to install;
differential hand brakes are easier to install but may be less ergononic
than toe brakes; the belly board mod doesn't affect ground handling
much but makes it easier to land on the spot you choose. I suggest you
seriously consider the entire 6 pack for a plane that "likes to skid
left." I think you can find some "before and after" discussions in the
archives.

Mike Perry

Jeff M. wrote:


Mike P,
The last entry in the log book states that it "likes to skid left.
Handles well." I contacted the previous owner just for more input. The
airframe has 55+ hours on it, but hasn't flown in 11 years. I'll
definitely check the alignment stuff out. It actually has a steel
tailspring and different swivel assembly on it already, shortly after it
was built the original spring broke. but I'd still prefer a pneumatic
tail wheel. That is the biggest element of added control in the
crosswinds isn't it?


Jon,
You sure are right about that, but it sounds like there is hope in
getting the mess untaggled though. I spoke with an EAA friendly DAR and
he doesn't think it would be a big deal at all, pretty much just update
the operating limitations to the newer versions and change the flight
test location. Then I'd just have to burn off the flight test time.

Speaking in general what typically uses shielded?


Larry,
I just picked up an AK-450 ELT, it was supposed to have its own small
metal antenna that just pops on it but it didn't come with it. I guess
I'll keep an eye out for one, or try fabbing up a bent C for Com and use
the foil for ELT. hmm.


Mike D,
Do you share the same sensors as the D10 or is it running via its own
GPS?


Fred,
I'll definitely have to give that a test drive, sounds like it is a
great product for a very reasonable price.


Thanks for all the answers,
Jeff

___


Michael Quinn
 

look at http://www.approach-systems.com/

M.

To: Q-LIST@...
From: hawkidoug@...
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:08:00 -0500
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions





















OK, what is APIC???



Doug "Hawkeye" Humble

A Sign Above www.asignabove.net

Omaha NE

N25974

----- Original Message -----

From: f.worrell@...

To: Q-LIST@...

Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:41 PM

Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions



I have downloaded APIC and have played with it on my laptop. Very impressive. They let you download the map version for free. The expensive version (with the terrain data) is roughly $100. Well worth it. Many really great features.



They also have a FREE Easy Taxi program that will show you where you are on the airport runways. All the towered airports are in there.



Mike is really on to something.



Fred



----- Original Message -----

From: "Mike Dwyer" <mdwyer@...>

To: Q-LIST@...

Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:24:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central

Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions



My APIC tablet has been working great. I get where I'm going. pop it

off the instrument panel and use it to access the internet then plug in

a USB gps and use Microsoft Streets to navigate the car to where ever

I'm going. It's awesome. The 10.3" screen is fine, don't think I'd be

happy with smaller.

Mike



Jeff M. wrote:

> Thanks for your answers so far;

>

> Mike,

> My thinking with the Collins VOR was to upgrade it to an ILS indicator

> with a glidesope receiver in the future, and also use a setup similar to

> yours that uses the APIC. If I can't find space on the panel the VOR

> will be the first thing to go. I'm not sure if I'll get a tablet PC or

> a pocket PC. I've used my Compaq laptop as a ground GPS before and

> almost every time I'm on a decent road trip something fails, I could

> imagine that being exponentially more frustrating in the air. Have you

> had any issues with yours? Any suggestions on screen size? Does APIC

> have the highway in the sky feature? I thought that was pretty cool on

> BMA and Dynon, but BMA is no longer....

>

>

> Jon,

> The previous owner did not complete phase 1 on the C-85. I presume I'll

> have to get it amended to include my area as the flight test area

> instead, in addition to the Day VFR.

>

> Can it ever be a bad thing to use shielded wire when not necessary? Of

> course it weighs and costs more but. other than that.

>

>

> Can the ELT share antennas with the Com or would they be best alone?

>

>

>

> Thanks again,

> Jeff

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Q-LIST@... [mailto: Q-LIST@... ] On Behalf

> Of jonfinley2001

> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:52 PM

> To: Q-LIST@...

> Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions

>

>

> Hi Jeff,

>

> Before making on OpLims comments I should have asked:

>

> How much time is on the airframe and is it in Phase 2 operation (out of

> the test period)?

>

> Jon

>

> --- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Jeff

> M." <jeffm@...> wrote:

>

>> Hi Everyone,

>>

>> I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great

>> information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200

>> (C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the

>> uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,

>> filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the

>>

> next

>

>> step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I

>> plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV/

>> COM/ VOR/ XPDR. I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with

>> aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit

>>

> wiring

>

>> that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive

>> wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire

>> gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it

>> just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the

>> avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a

>> foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is

>> Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV). Is there a

>> way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the

>> XPDR?

>>

>> One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states

>> Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as

>> equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as

>>

> well,

>

>> correct?)

>>

>>

>> Thanks,

>> Jeff McComb

>> N3245B

>>

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Quickie Builders Association WEB site

> http://www.quickiebuilders.org

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Jeff M. <jeffm@...>
 

Mike P.,
Sorry I wasn't more specific. most of those hours were on a Revmaster,
it was the previous owner who put the C-85 on but didn't complete the
flight test hours.

My Q-200 is a T-tail, that serves the same purpose as the reflexor mod,
doesn't it? I believe the brakes are stock, Cleveland calipers dated
1983, single cylinder finger brakes. It does have the intermediate
bellcrank mod however.


Sam,
Be careful with that wording, otherwise I may take you up on that. ;)


After reading Gall's article on alignment I am certain that my wheels do
not have a 5* outward camber, I guess I'll have to see what I can
squeeze out of it.


Thanks,
Jeff
SE Michigan

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of Sam Hoskins
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:10 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions


Just one man's opinion - and I have discussed this with the primary's
many
times. I think the 6-pack is good. However, if it was me, I'd just make
it
a 5 pack. I don't see a real need for the intermediate bellcrank and I
don't think it contributes to the handling issues. I once taxied Jim's
plane and it was impressive, but I think the biggest factors were the
Gall
wheel alignment and the tail wheel setup. Finger brakes or toe brakes is
just a matter of personal preference.

As far as brakes go, I have used the stock QAC, the Larue Brakes, and
the
Coughlin. For my money, the Coughlin are the best - so far - for the
tail
draggers. I don't know about the Tri's.

When trying to troubleshoot a handling problem, it would be really
beneficial to find an experienced Q guy to come and see it. Buy his gas,
feed him, and he will come.

The late Art Jewett was having all sorts of handling problems. No amount
of
e-mails or phone calls would sort out the problem, but I found it within
about 45 seconds of taxi time. His problem lay in the dual rudder pedal
set-up he had, but I had to drive it around to figure it out. After the
diagnosis, he was all better in a week.

Hoping to make it to BEAT RICE.

Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL

On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Mike Perry <dmperry1012@
<mailto:dmperry1012%40att.net> att.net> wrote:



Jeff:

It has 55 hours on it but still in phase 1? Is there some other
history here? If the plane completed phase 1 testing (usually 40
hours)
and then was put back in phase 1 for an engine change? If so that's a
different situation.

You also wrote, "I'd still prefer a pneumatic tail wheel. That is the
biggest element of added control in the crosswinds isn't it?" Jim
Patillo likes to say the 6 pack works as a system, you can't pick and
choose parts which parts of the 6 pack to install. I would say that
QAC
made compromises in designing the brakes and tail wheel such that the
Q2
is unstable on the ground; If you fully understand what each element
of
the 6 pack does then you can make choices. Just for review, the
6-pack consists of: a.. Reflexor mod b.. Belly board mod c.. La
Rue Brake mod d.. Toe brake mod e.. Bellcrank mod f.. Full
swiveling tail wheel mod.

There are other successful flying Qs but every Q with those 6 mods has
been a success. Some alternatives include the Coughlin brake mod which
is similar to the La Rue mod and possibly easier to install;
differential hand brakes are easier to install but may be less
ergononic
than toe brakes; the belly board mod doesn't affect ground handling
much but makes it easier to land on the spot you choose. I suggest you
seriously consider the entire 6 pack for a plane that "likes to skid
left." I think you can find some "before and after" discussions in the
archives.

Mike Perry

Jeff M. wrote:


Mike P,
The last entry in the log book states that it "likes to skid left.
Handles well." I contacted the previous owner just for more input.
The
airframe has 55+ hours on it, but hasn't flown in 11 years. I'll
definitely check the alignment stuff out. It actually has a steel
tailspring and different swivel assembly on it already, shortly
after it
was built the original spring broke. but I'd still prefer a
pneumatic
tail wheel. That is the biggest element of added control in the
crosswinds isn't it?


Jon,
You sure are right about that, but it sounds like there is hope in
getting the mess untaggled though. I spoke with an EAA friendly DAR
and
he doesn't think it would be a big deal at all, pretty much just
update
the operating limitations to the newer versions and change the
flight
test location. Then I'd just have to burn off the flight test time.

Speaking in general what typically uses shielded?


Larry,
I just picked up an AK-450 ELT, it was supposed to have its own
small
metal antenna that just pops on it but it didn't come with it. I
guess
I'll keep an eye out for one, or try fabbing up a bent C for Com and
use
the foil for ELT. hmm.


Mike D,
Do you share the same sensors as the D10 or is it running via its
own
GPS?


Fred,
I'll definitely have to give that a test drive, sounds like it is a
great product for a very reasonable price.


Thanks for all the answers,
Jeff

___


Mike Perry
 

Jeff:

re Gall wheel alignment: I believe the 5 deg is with no load on the canard; it should be around 0 deg. at gross. It may be different with the GU canard unloaded but still 0 deg at gross. (Do you have a Q2 or a Q200? Most Revmasters went on the original Q2 with the GU canard but there are plenty of exceptions.)

I think you are saying your plane never got out of phase 1 testing. If it was out of phase 1 even briefly you may have a different situation. It should be in the log book.

I think you are correct about the T-tail. I wouldn't chose to build a T-tail (more complex than the reflexor) but if it was there I would use it. Details on the T-tail are in old newsletters which I haven't read in years so take my comments with a large grain of salt.

Mike Perry

Jeff M. wrote:


Mike P.,
Sorry I wasn't more specific. most of those hours were on a Revmaster,
it was the previous owner who put the C-85 on but didn't complete the
flight test hours.

My Q-200 is a T-tail, that serves the same purpose as the reflexor mod,
doesn't it? I believe the brakes are stock, Cleveland calipers dated
1983, single cylinder finger brakes. It does have the intermediate
bellcrank mod however.


Sam,
Be careful with that wording, otherwise I may take you up on that. ;)


After reading Gall's article on alignment I am certain that my wheels do
not have a 5* outward camber, I guess I'll have to see what I can
squeeze out of it.


Thanks,
Jeff
SE Michigan

,_._,___


One Sky Dog
 

Mike and Jeff,

In my opinion th "T" tail does not do the same thing as the reflexer. The
reflexer adjusts the rear wing lift force to move the center of lift forward
and back which changes the attitude of the plane. A "T" tail adds an
additional lifting surface that fights the fixed lift distribution between the
canard and the wing. This complicates the aerodynamics vs simply reducing or
increasing the total lift of the wing to change attitude.

I believe the reflexer is much easier to incorporate than a "T" tail
simplifying and saving weight is not a bad thing.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson a.k.a. One Sky Dog

In a message dated 9/25/2009 10:53:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
dmperry1012@... writes:

I think you are correct about the T-tail. I wouldn't chose to build a
T-tail (more complex than the reflexor) but if it was there I would use
it. Details on the T-tail are in old newsletters which I haven't read
in years so take my comments with a large grain of salt.

Mike Perry


f.worrell@...
 

Doug,

APIC is moving map software....and more. The moving map portion (full version) shows the terrain, cities, lakes etc. The terrain changes color based on the altitude of the aircraft. If you see a patch of red ahead of you, then you are in danger of hitting the ground (I think terrain changes to red if it is within 300 feet of current altitude). It warns you if there is a tower in your flight path that you are endanger of hitting. It gets it's altitude data from the GPS . Not good enough to replace your altimeter, but great for warnings (it even has a VSI based on the GPS altitude input). This is in addition to all the normal GPS stuff.

It has electronic checklists (you can change them all you want).

It has 8 different screens.

You can program in all your V speeds and set altitude, heading, and speed bugs.

It has a simulator to allow you to "play" with the features on your laptop. You can test drive it before you buy. In fact if you don't want the terrain feature (but you will...) you can use it for free. In fact you can download a really old version of the terrain data for free and see now neat that feature is.

They offer a separate program (Easy Taxi) that will pull up standard airport diagrams (the exact ones you pull up on the EAA website) and it will show you where your aircraft is on the diagram. The Easy Taxi software is completely free.

I bought a UPS GPS on Ebay for $10 and it works just fine with it.

Check it out.

Fred

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Humble" < hawkidoug @cox.net>
To: Q-LIST@ yahoogroups .com
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:08:00 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions






OK, what is APIC ???

Doug " Hawkeye " Humble
A Sign Above www . asignabove .net
Omaha NE
N25974
----- Original Message -----
From: f. worrell @comcast.net
To: Q-LIST@ yahoogroups .com
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions

I have downloaded APIC and have played with it on my laptop. Very impressive. They let you download the map version for free. The expensive version (with the terrain data) is roughly $100. Well worth it. Many really great features.

They also have a FREE Easy Taxi program that will show you where you are on the airport runways. All the towered airports are in there.

Mike is really on to something.

Fred

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Dwyer " < mdwyer @ tampabay . rr .com >
To: Q-LIST@ yahoogroups .com
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:24:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions

My APIC tablet has been working great. I get where I'm going. pop it
off the instrument panel and use it to access the internet then plug in
a USB gps and use Microsoft Streets to navigate the car to where ever
I'm going. It's awesome. The 10.3" screen is fine, don't think I'd be
happy with smaller.
Mike

Jeff M. wrote:
Thanks for your answers so far;

Mike,
My thinking with the Collins VOR was to upgrade it to an ILS indicator
with a glidesope receiver in the future, and also use a setup similar to
yours that uses the APIC . If I can't find space on the panel the VOR
will be the first thing to go. I'm not sure if I'll get a tablet PC or
a pocket PC. I've used my Compaq laptop as a ground GPS before and
almost every time I'm on a decent road trip something fails, I could
imagine that being exponentially more frustrating in the air. Have you
had any issues with yours? Any suggestions on screen size? Does APIC
have the highway in the sky feature? I thought that was pretty cool on
BMA and Dynon , but BMA is no longer....


Jon,
The previous owner did not complete phase 1 on the C-85. I presume I'll
have to get it amended to include my area as the flight test area
instead, in addition to the Day VFR .

Can it ever be a bad thing to use shielded wire when not necessary? Of
course it weighs and costs more but. other than that.


Can the ELT share antennas with the Com or would they be best alone?



Thanks again,
Jeff



-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@ yahoogroups .com [ mailto : Q-LIST@ yahoogroups .com ] On Behalf
Of jonfinley2001
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@ yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Electrical Questions


Hi Jeff,

Before making on OpLims comments I should have asked:

How much time is on the airframe and is it in Phase 2 operation (out of
the test period)?

Jon

--- In Q-LIST@ yahoogroups . < mailto :Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Jeff
M." < jeffm @...> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking for a little while, you guys have a lot of great
information here. I bought an already flying but disassembled Q-200
(C-85) off of Barnstormers earlier this year, I was unhappy with the
uneven finish so I've spent the last few months doing all the sanding,
filling, priming, and finally painting. So now I'm moving onto the
next

step, electrical stuff. The plane had a very basic VFR dash on it, I
plan on upgrading the antiquated instruments and adding Collins NAV /
COM/ VOR / XPDR . I've wired houses and cars but have no experience with
aviation. currently it has little to no wiring in it, the cockpit
wiring

that is there does not appear to be anything more than automotive
wiring. So all of that is coming out but my question is regarding wire
gauge and shielding. Should shielded wire be used everywhere, is it
just for heat/ abrasion or for RFI as well? What gauge are most of the
avionics, 20ga or 18ga? Also I am unclear on the antennas, there is a
foil antenna where the main fuselage meets the tail (I presume this is
Com) and another in the left wing (which I presume is NAV ). Is there a
way to tell what they are? Will I have to add another antenna for the
XPDR ?

One other thing on my mind, on the airworthiness certificate it states
Day VFR only. does it just have to be re-inspected to be Day VFR + as
equipped. (then equipped correctly it can be used in Night VFR as
well,

correct?)


Thanks,
Jeff McComb
N3245B


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