Battery power to weight ratio.


Rick Hole
 

I am wondering about the talk of banning lithium batteries from air shipment
due to fire hazard. But I haven't researched the issue, just bringing it up
to encourage someone else to do it for me :-) Having a battery go up in
flames could make for an exciting flight.

Rick


Isaksson Roger <scratchdeeper@...>
 

If an issue was worth posting it must be worth researching, instead we got a one
liner posing the hazards, but no research to back it up. On top of it all,
someone else is suppose to do the research job.

Let me pose a few others, on the same theme, that follows the same line of
logic.

Epoxy will eventually deteriorate, it will make a hell of a hillarious flight
when the wings comes off....but I let you do the research.

All wood props will eventually disintegrate in a poff, you better have a freeway
clear of cars when that happens,....if your engine still is there,.....but I let
you do the research.

So here we have knowledge based only on 5 seconds snippets from newsmedia
regarding batteries, as the basis for an opinion about a possible  in flight
disaster, ande posed as a fact.

Not to mention that this was an issue with the first generation LitIon
batteries, not to mention that this was another set of batteries for small
electronic appliances, not to mention that the supplier and the manufacturing
technique was looked over and corrected, not to mention that bigger units are in
use daily, with no ill effects, and so on.

The only result such an approach will do is......just by the fact that it is
posed as a danger, and then leave the board with a one liner, may very well
inprint on the general flight community the idea that Lithium Ion batteries WILL
mean an inflight fire, and some may based on that statement, very well not
approach the subject,  and Lithium Ion batteries will not be pursued.

Let me turn this around and ask you a question.

Do you still beat your wife?

You see, it doesnt matter what you answer now, you will be wrong either
way, because the idea that you are, or have been beating your wife, is assumed.

I just posed the idea that you are beating your wife, and ran out on it, but
leaving the idea behind.

....just as you left, with posing the idea that in flight fires are coming your
way, if you are using Litium Ion Batteries.

Extraordinatry claims  demands extraordianry proof, so,  while you are not
expected to be an expert on the subject, at least do some basic research  on it
first before you toss out statements of that nature.

If we find that Hydrogen would be a feasible way to power our aircrafts,
....please don't come back with a one liner like......-"Be careful....remember
Hindenburg"

Roger







________________________________
From: Rick Hole <r.hole@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wed, October 6, 2010 7:04:34 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Battery power to weight ratio.

 


I am wondering about the talk of banning lithium batteries from air shipment
due to fire hazard. But I haven't researched the issue, just bringing it up
to encourage someone else to do it for me :-) Having a battery go up in
flames could make for an exciting flight.

Rick


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


One Sky Dog
 

I believe that is related to pallets of batteries in the cargo hold, not
your spare laptop battery.

Charlie

In a message dated 10/6/2010 8:04:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
r.hole@... writes:

I am wondering about the talk of banning lithium batteries from air
shipment
due to fire hazard. But I haven't researched the issue, just bringing it
up
to encourage someone else to do it for me :-) Having a battery go up in
flames could make for an exciting flight.

Rick


John Loram <johnl@...>
 

As a EE that has been designing battery operated electronic instrumentation
for forty years, I find battery technology endlessly fascinating, but it's
wildly off topic on this forum. May I suggest that the conversation be moved
to some other forum, such as ThunderSky, the group "for exchanging
information and experience on large lithium-ion batteries. (there are
several other battery groups)"

thanks, -john-
www.loram.org



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Isaksson Roger
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 11:01 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Battery power to weight ratio.




If an issue was worth posting it must be worth researching, instead we got a
one
liner posing the hazards, but no research to back it up. On top of it all,
someone else is suppose to do the research job.

Let me pose a few others, on the same theme, that follows the same line of
logic.

Epoxy will eventually deteriorate, it will make a hell of a hillarious
flight
when the wings comes off....but I let you do the research.

All wood props will eventually disintegrate in a poff, you better have a
freeway
clear of cars when that happens,....if your engine still is there,.....but I
let
you do the research.

So here we have knowledge based only on 5 seconds snippets from newsmedia
regarding batteries, as the basis for an opinion about a possible in flight

disaster, ande posed as a fact.

Not to mention that this was an issue with the first generation LitIon
batteries, not to mention that this was another set of batteries for small
electronic appliances, not to mention that the supplier and the
manufacturing
technique was looked over and corrected, not to mention that bigger units
are in
use daily, with no ill effects, and so on.

The only result such an approach will do is......just by the fact that it is

posed as a danger, and then leave the board with a one liner, may very well
inprint on the general flight community the idea that Lithium Ion batteries
WILL
mean an inflight fire, and some may based on that statement, very well not
approach the subject, and Lithium Ion batteries will not be pursued.

Let me turn this around and ask you a question.

Do you still beat your wife?

You see, it doesnt matter what you answer now, you will be wrong either
way, because the idea that you are, or have been beating your wife, is
assumed.

I just posed the idea that you are beating your wife, and ran out on it, but

leaving the idea behind.

....just as you left, with posing the idea that in flight fires are coming
your
way, if you are using Litium Ion Batteries.

Extraordinatry claims demands extraordianry proof, so, while you are not
expected to be an expert on the subject, at least do some basic research on
it
first before you toss out statements of that nature.

If we find that Hydrogen would be a feasible way to power our aircrafts,
....please don't come back with a one liner like......-"Be
careful....remember
Hindenburg"

Roger

________________________________
From: Rick Hole <r.hole@... <mailto:r.hole%40ieee.org> >
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, October 6, 2010 7:04:34 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Battery power to weight ratio.



I am wondering about the talk of banning lithium batteries from air shipment
due to fire hazard. But I haven't researched the issue, just bringing it up
to encourage someone else to do it for me :-) Having a battery go up in
flames could make for an exciting flight.

Rick


Isaksson Roger <scratchdeeper@...>
 

Yes the batteries in them selves, are a different topic, yes, but batteries as 
a possible substitute as a weight saving factor in an airplane, I would say,  is
spot on, as , in this case, the possible weight saving is substantial.

From that perspective, you might have something to ad, like , if there are any
possible differences in how  Lead Batteries compared with Lithium Ion batteries
are acting and behaving with an alternator as a charger, , as most have
experience of Litium Ion batteries from very small electronic appliance
batteries, that require only a very small plug in type charging device, that
gives a very steady current.

The power to weight ratio is the appealing issue here, and with a man with your
experience in batteries, if you could please tell, a couple of pro's and con's
for people considering a straight substitute from a Lead Acid battery to a
Litium Ion battery.

I am sorry that a few bloggers started to go off topic on this subject like
......-"Don't wear clownshoes in a minefield"....and ...."Don't pet a burning
dog"....."it's dangerous".......and then added links to clownshoes, minefields
and burning dogs.

Roger





________________________________
From: John Loram <johnl@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 11:34:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Battery power to weight ratio.

 
As a EE that has been designing battery operated electronic instrumentation
for forty years, I find battery technology endlessly fascinating, but it's
wildly off topic on this forum. May I suggest that the conversation be moved
to some other forum, such as ThunderSky, the group "for exchanging
information and experience on large lithium-ion batteries. (there are
several other battery groups)"

thanks, -john-
www.loram.org

_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Isaksson Roger
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 11:01 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Battery power to weight ratio.

If an issue was worth posting it must be worth researching, instead we got a
one
liner posing the hazards, but no research to back it up. On top of it all,
someone else is suppose to do the research job.

Let me pose a few others, on the same theme, that follows the same line of
logic.

Epoxy will eventually deteriorate, it will make a hell of a hillarious
flight
when the wings comes off....but I let you do the research.

All wood props will eventually disintegrate in a poff, you better have a
freeway
clear of cars when that happens,....if your engine still is there,.....but I
let
you do the research.

So here we have knowledge based only on 5 seconds snippets from newsmedia
regarding batteries, as the basis for an opinion about a possible in flight

disaster, ande posed as a fact.

Not to mention that this was an issue with the first generation LitIon
batteries, not to mention that this was another set of batteries for small
electronic appliances, not to mention that the supplier and the
manufacturing
technique was looked over and corrected, not to mention that bigger units
are in
use daily, with no ill effects, and so on.

The only result such an approach will do is......just by the fact that it is

posed as a danger, and then leave the board with a one liner, may very well
inprint on the general flight community the idea that Lithium Ion batteries
WILL
mean an inflight fire, and some may based on that statement, very well not
approach the subject, and Lithium Ion batteries will not be pursued.

Let me turn this around and ask you a question.

Do you still beat your wife?

You see, it doesnt matter what you answer now, you will be wrong either
way, because the idea that you are, or have been beating your wife, is
assumed.

I just posed the idea that you are beating your wife, and ran out on it, but

leaving the idea behind.

....just as you left, with posing the idea that in flight fires are coming
your
way, if you are using Litium Ion Batteries.

Extraordinatry claims demands extraordianry proof, so, while you are not
expected to be an expert on the subject, at least do some basic research on
it
first before you toss out statements of that nature.

If we find that Hydrogen would be a feasible way to power our aircrafts,
....please don't come back with a one liner like......-"Be
careful....remember
Hindenburg"

Roger

________________________________
From: Rick Hole <r.hole@... <mailto:r.hole%40ieee.org> >
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, October 6, 2010 7:04:34 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Battery power to weight ratio.

I am wondering about the talk of banning lithium batteries from air shipment
due to fire hazard. But I haven't researched the issue, just bringing it up
to encourage someone else to do it for me :-) Having a battery go up in
flames could make for an exciting flight.

Rick

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]