Canard Stiffener


Raymond Johnson
 

Hi all
I have read where it was said that the weakest part of the canard wing is at the end of the stiffener, cracks have been found at this point.
To all you aeronautical engineers could anybody tell me if it would be a good idea to run the stiffener to the end, or tip, of the canard.
I`m building the LS1 profile canard without the carbon spare.
I`m fitting a Viking engine.
Regards Ray.
OZ.


curtismold63
 

Look into building a full length carbon fiber I beam spar with the GU layup. You can build the CF I beam spar yourself for less and have all the strength of the tube. The best bet is to use what works and order the CF tube. The thought "crap I should have" with a decent rate of 5000FPM is worth a LOT of money. But then again I don't have a flying plane just a degree. Don't forget the difference in the thickness in between the two airfoils this changes the amount of foam between the layers hence the strength and flexibility of the airfoil. Think long and hard the look at the static loads of the new design then you will find that in order to change the design properly it will cost more in research than to just by the CF tubes. Sorry to be a bummer I wanted to do the same thing this is just the conclusion that i came to. Best of luck and be safe.

Curtis

--- In Q-LIST@..., "johnogr300" <johnogr@...> wrote:

Hi all
I have read where it was said that the weakest part of the canard wing is at the end of the stiffener, cracks have been found at this point.
To all you aeronautical engineers could anybody tell me if it would be a good idea to run the stiffener to the end, or tip, of the canard.
I`m building the LS1 profile canard without the carbon spare.
I`m fitting a Viking engine.
Regards Ray.
OZ.


britmcman99
 

Are you building a TriQ and are you building to the Waddlow Canard design?

Phil Lankford


On Dec 24, 2012, at 3:00 AM, "johnogr300" <johnogr@...> wrote:

Hi all
I have read where it was said that the weakest part of the canard wing is at the end of the stiffener, cracks have been found at this point.
To all you aeronautical engineers could anybody tell me if it would be a good idea to run the stiffener to the end, or tip, of the canard.
I`m building the LS1 profile canard without the carbon spare.
I`m fitting a Viking engine.
Regards Ray.
OZ.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Larry Severson
 

The problem exists only with the GU canard and
wing tip gear. Extending the spar caps to the tip
will change the resistance to stress, but will
possibly change the flight characteristics and
definitely the taxiing roughness. It will also
increase the weight of the plane. The original
designer used "best design practices", but
ignored the fact that those practices did not include gear at the wing tips.

At 07:29 AM 12/24/2012, you wrote:


Are you building a TriQ and are you building to the Waddlow Canard design?

Phil Lankford

On Dec 24, 2012, at 3:00 AM, "johnogr300"
<<mailto:johnogr%40bigpond.com>johnogr@...> wrote:

Hi all
I have read where it was said that the
weakest part of the canard wing is at the end
of the stiffener, cracks have been found at this point.
To all you aeronautical engineers could
anybody tell me if it would be a good idea to
run the stiffener to the end, or tip, of the canard.
I`m building the LS1 profile canard without the carbon spare.
I`m fitting a Viking engine.
Regards Ray.
OZ.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Larry Severson
18242 Peters Ct
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


dkeats <dkeats@...>
 

Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
mods. Chris


Paul Buckley
 

Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named after its designer.

BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.

It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.

Kind regards

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200

----- Original Message -----
From: dkeats
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener



Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
mods. Chris






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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Raymond Johnson
 

Hi All (Paul)
Thanks for the reply`s on the stiffener issue.
I brought a Q2 kit that was almost unstarted, it had been in a shed for some 30 years. If I had not taken it, it was going to rubbish.
The foam that came with the kit was complete but I would have to put into question as to its strength, and the resin was still in there unopened boxes, and again
I have been told to buy new resin.
I`m using blue foam in the canard and wing, I`ve built the cradle that holds the fuselage,built the main fuel tank, all the bulk heads built, header tank built.
I`m building the Q2 with the wing tip wheels, and with the LS1 aerofoil.
Paul, could you send me in the direction where I will find the information on the modification needed to build the canard, I have cut out all the templates for the wing and canard and I am ready to hot wire cut the profiles.
Thanks Ray
OZ

From: Paul Buckley
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:39 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener


Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named after its designer.

BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.

It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.

Kind regards

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200

----- Original Message -----
From: dkeats
To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
mods. Chris

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5992 - Release Date: 12/28/12







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


DavidPeterson80 <davidpeterson80@...>
 

Where do you live? Just curious. Thanks, Dave P.
On Dec 28, 2012, at 4:48 PM, "Raymond Johnson" <johnogr@...> wrote:

Hi All (Paul)
Thanks for the reply`s on the stiffener issue.
I brought a Q2 kit that was almost unstarted, it had been in a shed for some 30 years. If I had not taken it, it was going to rubbish.
The foam that came with the kit was complete but I would have to put into question as to its strength, and the resin was still in there unopened boxes, and again
I have been told to buy new resin.
I`m using blue foam in the canard and wing, I`ve built the cradle that holds the fuselage,built the main fuel tank, all the bulk heads built, header tank built.
I`m building the Q2 with the wing tip wheels, and with the LS1 aerofoil.
Paul, could you send me in the direction where I will find the information on the modification needed to build the canard, I have cut out all the templates for the wing and canard and I am ready to hot wire cut the profiles.
Thanks Ray
OZ

From: Paul Buckley
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:39 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named after its designer.

BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.

It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.

Kind regards

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200

----- Original Message -----
From: dkeats
To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
mods. Chris

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Raymond Johnson
 

Victoria Australia

From: DavidPeterson80
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 2:30 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener


Where do you live? Just curious. Thanks, Dave P.
On Dec 28, 2012, at 4:48 PM, "Raymond Johnson" <mailto:johnogr%40bigpond.com> wrote:

Hi All (Paul)
Thanks for the reply`s on the stiffener issue.
I brought a Q2 kit that was almost unstarted, it had been in a shed for some 30 years. If I had not taken it, it was going to rubbish.
The foam that came with the kit was complete but I would have to put into question as to its strength, and the resin was still in there unopened boxes, and again
I have been told to buy new resin.
I`m using blue foam in the canard and wing, I`ve built the cradle that holds the fuselage,built the main fuel tank, all the bulk heads built, header tank built.
I`m building the Q2 with the wing tip wheels, and with the LS1 aerofoil.
Paul, could you send me in the direction where I will find the information on the modification needed to build the canard, I have cut out all the templates for the wing and canard and I am ready to hot wire cut the profiles.
Thanks Ray
OZ

From: Paul Buckley
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:39 PM
To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named after its designer.

BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.

It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.

Kind regards

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200

----- Original Message -----
From: dkeats
To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
mods. Chris

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5992 - Release Date: 12/28/12

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Paul Buckley
 

Ah, therein lies the rub ........ you cannot use the 'Waddelow' canard unless you are building a Tri gear.

The 'Waddelow' canard was designed because the Tri configuration does not require the strength of the taildragger canard with the wheels at the tip. Sorry!

You will have to use the Carbon tube spars or redesign the canard, no easy task unless you are an aerospace engineer.

At least, it would be in England, is the Aussie CAA just as difficult or are you able to do such things??

Or you could consider buying the Tri gear kit ............ it may still be available from Scott Swing at Velocity Aircraft.

Anyway, I think that the problem you are trying to overcome was the wrinkling of the top skin on a standard LS1 carbon tube canard just outboard of the fuselage. The fix for that was an extra two (?) short glass layups (spar caps) to reinforce the section a foot or so outside the fuselage, both sides, where the canard would flex the most.

Cheers

Paul Buckley

----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Johnson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener



Hi All (Paul)
Thanks for the reply`s on the stiffener issue.
I brought a Q2 kit that was almost unstarted, it had been in a shed for some 30 years. If I had not taken it, it was going to rubbish.
The foam that came with the kit was complete but I would have to put into question as to its strength, and the resin was still in there unopened boxes, and again
I have been told to buy new resin.
I`m using blue foam in the canard and wing, I`ve built the cradle that holds the fuselage,built the main fuel tank, all the bulk heads built, header tank built.
I`m building the Q2 with the wing tip wheels, and with the LS1 aerofoil.
Paul, could you send me in the direction where I will find the information on the modification needed to build the canard, I have cut out all the templates for the wing and canard and I am ready to hot wire cut the profiles.
Thanks Ray
OZ

From: Paul Buckley
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:39 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named after its designer.

BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.

It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.

Kind regards

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200

----- Original Message -----
From: dkeats
To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
mods. Chris

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Paul Buckley
 

Don't dump the old epoxy because you will be able to use it on non structural parts.

And I also understand that it is only the hardener that 'goes off', so if you use fresh hardener with the old epoxy you should be OK.

Anyone want to comment on that?

Paul B.

----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Johnson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener



Hi All (Paul)
Thanks for the reply`s on the stiffener issue.
I brought a Q2 kit that was almost unstarted, it had been in a shed for some 30 years. If I had not taken it, it was going to rubbish.
The foam that came with the kit was complete but I would have to put into question as to its strength, and the resin was still in there unopened boxes, and again
I have been told to buy new resin.
I`m using blue foam in the canard and wing, I`ve built the cradle that holds the fuselage,built the main fuel tank, all the bulk heads built, header tank built.
I`m building the Q2 with the wing tip wheels, and with the LS1 aerofoil.
Paul, could you send me in the direction where I will find the information on the modification needed to build the canard, I have cut out all the templates for the wing and canard and I am ready to hot wire cut the profiles.
Thanks Ray
OZ

From: Paul Buckley
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:39 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named after its designer.

BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.

It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.

Kind regards

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200

----- Original Message -----
From: dkeats
To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
mods. Chris



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5992 - Release Date: 12/28/12

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Bruce Crain
 

Look on the side of the can and see if it says anything about warming up the epoxie to a certain temp to dissolve the crystals. If it does you can use it again. Not sure about structural parts though. The new hardener is a lot more clear making it easier to use.Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Paul Buckley" <paulbuckley@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 17:46:42 -0000



Don't dump the old epoxy because you will be able to use it on non structural parts.

And I also understand that it is only the hardener that 'goes off', so if you use fresh hardener with the old epoxy you should be OK.

Anyone want to comment on that?

Paul B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Johnson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Hi All (Paul)
Thanks for the reply`s on the stiffener issue.
I brought a Q2 kit that was almost unstarted, it had been in a shed for some 30 years. If I had not taken it, it was going to rubbish.
The foam that came with the kit was complete but I would have to put into question as to its strength, and the resin was still in there unopened boxes, and again
I have been told to buy new resin.
I`m using blue foam in the canard and wing, I`ve built the cradle that holds the fuselage,built the main fuel tank, all the bulk heads built, header tank built.
I`m building the Q2 with the wing tip wheels, and with the LS1 aerofoil.
Paul, could you send me in the direction where I will find the information on the modification needed to build the canard, I have cut out all the templates for the wing and canard and I am ready to hot wire cut the profiles.
Thanks Ray
OZ

From: Paul Buckley
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:39 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named after its designer.

BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.

It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.

Kind regards

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200

----- Original Message -----
From: dkeats
To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
mods. Chris



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5992 - Release Date: 12/28/12





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____________________________________________________________
Woman is 53 But Looks 25
Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50df6992284f8699119c0st01vuc


One Sky Dog
 

Paul,

Epoxy seems to be pretty stable if the cans have never been opened, there is a good chance it is good. The manufacturers have to draw the line somewhere for the guarantee it seems to be 2 years. I had a kit of Safe-T-Epoxy from 1979 I think I mixed it up mid 2000's it reacted just fine. I am not sure that says it would pull a meet tensile sample to the same value as a new batch but the epoxy mainly protects the fiber, transfers load fiber to fiber, and provides limited strength to the laminate perpendicular to the layers.

The real strength of composites is the fiber and the resin mainly holds them in place.

Regards,

Charlie

On Dec 29, 2012, at 10:46 AM, "Paul Buckley" <paulbuckley@...> wrote:

Don't dump the old epoxy because you will be able to use it on non structural parts.

And I also understand that it is only the hardener that 'goes off', so if you use fresh hardener with the old epoxy you should be OK.

Anyone want to comment on that?

Paul B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Johnson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener



Hi All (Paul)
Thanks for the reply`s on the stiffener issue.
I brought a Q2 kit that was almost unstarted, it had been in a shed for some 30 years. If I had not taken it, it was going to rubbish.
The foam that came with the kit was complete but I would have to put into question as to its strength, and the resin was still in there unopened boxes, and again
I have been told to buy new resin.
I`m using blue foam in the canard and wing, I`ve built the cradle that holds the fuselage,built the main fuel tank, all the bulk heads built, header tank built.
I`m building the Q2 with the wing tip wheels, and with the LS1 aerofoil.
Paul, could you send me in the direction where I will find the information on the modification needed to build the canard, I have cut out all the templates for the wing and canard and I am ready to hot wire cut the profiles.
Thanks Ray
OZ

From: Paul Buckley
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:39 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named after its designer.

BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.

It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.

Kind regards

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200

----- Original Message -----
From: dkeats
To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
mods. Chris



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5992 - Release Date: 12/28/12

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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------------------------------------

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Yahoo! Groups Links



One Sky Dog
 

If crystallized , double boiler 120 F until it melts.

On Dec 29, 2012, at 10:06 PM, "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Look on the side of the can and see if it says anything about warming up the epoxie to a certain temp to dissolve the crystals. If it does you can use it again. Not sure about structural parts though. The new hardener is a lot more clear making it easier to use.Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Paul Buckley" <paulbuckley@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 17:46:42 -0000



Don't dump the old epoxy because you will be able to use it on non structural parts.

And I also understand that it is only the hardener that 'goes off', so if you use fresh hardener with the old epoxy you should be OK.

Anyone want to comment on that?

Paul B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Johnson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Hi All (Paul)
Thanks for the reply`s on the stiffener issue.
I brought a Q2 kit that was almost unstarted, it had been in a shed for some 30 years. If I had not taken it, it was going to rubbish.
The foam that came with the kit was complete but I would have to put into question as to its strength, and the resin was still in there unopened boxes, and again
I have been told to buy new resin.
I`m using blue foam in the canard and wing, I`ve built the cradle that holds the fuselage,built the main fuel tank, all the bulk heads built, header tank built.
I`m building the Q2 with the wing tip wheels, and with the LS1 aerofoil.
Paul, could you send me in the direction where I will find the information on the modification needed to build the canard, I have cut out all the templates for the wing and canard and I am ready to hot wire cut the profiles.
Thanks Ray
OZ

From: Paul Buckley
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:39 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named after its designer.

BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.

It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.

Kind regards

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200

----- Original Message -----
From: dkeats
To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
mods. Chris



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5992 - Release Date: 12/28/12

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5995 - Release Date: 12/29/12






____________________________________________________________
Woman is 53 But Looks 25
Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50df6992284f8699119c0st01vuc





------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

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Rick Hole
 

Styrene hardeners tend to get thick or crystallize. As others said, warm up
the hardener and stir it in. Then lay up a test patch of several BID. It
should cure in a normal length of time (temperature dependent). If it
cures, I would use it for non-structural parts. You may have lost some
styrene due to age, so be cautious about structural parts.

Rick Hole


One Sky Dog
 

Styrenated resins are polyesters (auto shop fiberglass) and vinyl ester resins like Glasair's are built from.

Styrene is a reactive diluent so if you did lose some to evaporation your resin may be thicker and not want to wet out the fiber.

Epoxy should not suffer from this as nothing evaporates and they are reactive chemistries instead of catalyzing reactions.

The esters can solidify over time as they have inhibitors to prevent the monomers from cross linking. These are the resins with a few drops of catalysts like MEKP that destroy the inhibitors and allow cross linking.

A test lay up is always prudent. What to test depends on the end use of the part.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson

On Dec 29, 2012, at 6:16 PM, "Rick Hole" <r.hole@...> wrote:



Styrene hardeners tend to get thick or crystallize. As others said, warm up
the hardener and stir it in. Then lay up a test patch of several BID. It
should cure in a normal length of time (temperature dependent). If it
cures, I would use it for non-structural parts. You may have lost some
styrene due to age, so be cautious about structural parts.

TRick Hole





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links



Jay Scheevel
 

And don't dare letting your wife see you do that... Just sayin' :-)

Charlie has a little more leeway...

Cheers,
Jay

--- In Q-LIST@..., Charlie Johnson <oneskydog@...> wrote:

If crystallized , double boiler 120 F until it melts.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 29, 2012, at 10:06 PM, "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Look on the side of the can and see if it says anything about warming up the epoxie to a certain temp to dissolve the crystals. If it does you can use it again. Not sure about structural parts though. The new hardener is a lot more clear making it easier to use.Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Paul Buckley" <paulbuckley@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 17:46:42 -0000



Don't dump the old epoxy because you will be able to use it on non structural parts.

And I also understand that it is only the hardener that 'goes off', so if you use fresh hardener with the old epoxy you should be OK.

Anyone want to comment on that?

Paul B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Johnson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Hi All (Paul)
Thanks for the reply`s on the stiffener issue.
I brought a Q2 kit that was almost unstarted, it had been in a shed for some 30 years. If I had not taken it, it was going to rubbish.
The foam that came with the kit was complete but I would have to put into question as to its strength, and the resin was still in there unopened boxes, and again
I have been told to buy new resin.
I`m using blue foam in the canard and wing, I`ve built the cradle that holds the fuselage,built the main fuel tank, all the bulk heads built, header tank built.
I`m building the Q2 with the wing tip wheels, and with the LS1 aerofoil.
Paul, could you send me in the direction where I will find the information on the modification needed to build the canard, I have cut out all the templates for the wing and canard and I am ready to hot wire cut the profiles.
Thanks Ray
OZ

From: Paul Buckley
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:39 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named after its designer.

BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.

It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.

Kind regards

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200

----- Original Message -----
From: dkeats
To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
mods. Chris

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5992 - Release Date: 12/28/12





No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5995 - Release Date: 12/29/12

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




____________________________________________________________
Woman is 53 But Looks 25
Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50df6992284f8699119c0st01vuc





------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links



Sam Hoskins
 

Raymond, please make it clear what you are trying to build?

A Taildragger?

A Tri-Q?



On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Raymond Johnson <johnogr@...>wrote:

**


Hi All (Paul)
Thanks for the reply`s on the stiffener issue.
I brought a Q2 kit that was almost unstarted, it had been in a shed for
some 30 years. If I had not taken it, it was going to rubbish.
The foam that came with the kit was complete but I would have to put into
question as to its strength, and the resin was still in there unopened
boxes, and again
I have been told to buy new resin.
I`m using blue foam in the canard and wing, I`ve built the cradle that
holds the fuselage,built the main fuel tank, all the bulk heads built,
header tank built.
I`m building the Q2 with the wing tip wheels, and with the LS1 aerofoil.
Paul, could you send me in the direction where I will find the information
on the modification needed to build the canard, I have cut out all the
templates for the wing and canard and I am ready to hot wire cut the
profiles.
Thanks Ray
OZ

From: Paul Buckley
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:39 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener


Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a
layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named
after its designer.

BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.

It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.

Kind regards

Paul Buckley
Cheshire
England

Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200

----- Original Message -----
From: dkeats
To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener

Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the
beefup
mods. Chris



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5992 - Release Date: 12/28/12

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bruce Crain
 

Now that you mention it Jay she did watch me pretty closely when I borrowed her candy thermometer and large pan. Then I clicked on the stove and poured in the water to watch the temp rise to 120 degree F. There were a few questions along the way but she's a pretty good sport!Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: jay@...
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Canard Stiffener
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 17:27:57 -0000



And don't dare letting your wife see you do that... Just sayin' :-)

Charlie has a little more leeway...

Cheers,
Jay

--- In Q-LIST@..., Charlie Johnson <oneskydog@...> wrote:
>
> If crystallized , double boiler 120 F until it melts.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 29, 2012, at 10:06 PM, "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...> wrote:
>
> > Look on the side of the can and see if it says anything about warming up the epoxie to a certain temp to dissolve the crystals. If it does you can use it again. Not sure about structural parts though. The new hardener is a lot more clear making it easier to use.Bruce
> >
> > ---------- Original Message ----------
> > From: "Paul Buckley" <paulbuckley@...>
> > To: <Q-LIST@...>
> > Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener
> > Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 17:46:42 -0000
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't dump the old epoxy because you will be able to use it on non structural parts.
> >
> > And I also understand that it is only the hardener that 'goes off', so if you use fresh hardener with the old epoxy you should be OK.
> >
> > Anyone want to comment on that?
> >
> > Paul B.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Raymond Johnson
> > To: Q-LIST@...
> > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener
> >
> > Hi All (Paul)
> > Thanks for the reply`s on the stiffener issue.
> > I brought a Q2 kit that was almost unstarted, it had been in a shed for some 30 years. If I had not taken it, it was going to rubbish.
> > The foam that came with the kit was complete but I would have to put into question as to its strength, and the resin was still in there unopened boxes, and again
> > I have been told to buy new resin.
> > I`m using blue foam in the canard and wing, I`ve built the cradle that holds the fuselage,built the main fuel tank, all the bulk heads built, header tank built.
> > I`m building the Q2 with the wing tip wheels, and with the LS1 aerofoil.
> > Paul, could you send me in the direction where I will find the information on the modification needed to build the canard, I have cut out all the templates for the wing and canard and I am ready to hot wire cut the profiles.
> > Thanks Ray
> > OZ
> >
> > From: Paul Buckley
> > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:39 PM
> > To: Q-LIST@...
> > Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener
> >
> > Well, as been mentioned previously, IF you are building a Tri-Q there is a layup specifically designed for the canard called the 'Waddelow', named after its designer.
> >
> > BUT ONLY for the canard without the wingtip wheels.
> > It is an LS1 aerofoil and is in use by quite a few Tri-Q drivers.
> >
> > It would be much simpler for you to use what has gone before and is proven.
> > It is built much like the wing, but with mods which are quite easy to do.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Paul Buckley
> > Cheshire
> > England
> >
> > Embryo 'Waddelow' TriQ-200
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: dkeats
> > To: mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:49 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Canard Stiffener
> >
> > Ray----------- Regarding your spar. Go to the dragonfly site and see if
> > you can get their layup. Our canards are made for 1350 gross with the beefup
> > mods. Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5992 - Release Date: 12/28/12
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5995 - Release Date: 12/29/12
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> > Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50df6992284f8699119c0st01vuc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> > http://www.quickiebuilders.org
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>




____________________________________________________________
Woman is 53 But Looks 25
Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50e08db78ddd1db73cb1st03vuc