Date
1 - 10 of 10
Elevator and T-Tail trim ?
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Hi everyone,
I am rebuilding a Q2 in Cochrane just outside of Calgary and have a question for those more knowledgeable. I would be grateful for advice. I have the T-Tail trim system on my Q2 C-GMBK and believe that I can omit the "Elevator trim" control that used to be on the forward center console. I believe that the elevator trim system is a possible safety issue in that it could be adjusted to reduce some of the elevator control movement if one was unaware of settings. Having two trim systems seems wrong to me. I have read the article in the Nov/Dec 2011 (# 150) issue of Q-Talk archive by Gary McKirdy (tech counselor UK, thanks Gary), that explains in detail about the T-Tail and Reflexor trim systems. He had commented in the article, quote: "If you have both the Elevator and T-Tail" inferring it to could be an option. I believe that many have both because the Elevator trim was the original configuration with T-Tail or Reflexor added later. Can I safely remove the original elevator trim wheel? Thanks guys Calvin Thorne 56 Rolling Range Estate Cochrane, Alberta, Canada T4C 2A3 Cell & text 403 860-7582 Aircraft building web page: http://users.xplornet.com/~vision/44/tailfeathers.html |
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No you cannot remove the elevator trim until you fly it and see if the elevator trim is neutral for pitch. The sparrow strainers are suppose to trim the elevator for neutral but they, in fact, usually don't work that well for 1sty flights. Most have a heavy nose down/forward pull on the stick until the sparrow strainers are addressed and worked with. I assume you have the LS1 canard as opposed to the GU canard.Most of the Quickies have a reflexor for trim also and that makes the t-tail redundant. There must be a reason that I have never seen a live t-tail on a Quickie. The aileron reflexor works best I believe.Bruce
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---------- Original Message ----------
From: cbthorne14@... To: Q-LIST@... Subject: [Q-LIST] Elevator and T-Tail trim ? Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:39:45 -0000 Hi everyone, I am rebuilding a Q2 in Cochrane just outside of Calgary and have a question for those more knowledgeable. I would be grateful for advice. I have the T-Tail trim system on my Q2 C-GMBK and believe that I can omit the "Elevator trim" control that used to be on the forward center console. I believe that the elevator trim system is a possible safety issue in that it could be adjusted to reduce some of the elevator control movement if one was unaware of settings. Having two trim systems seems wrong to me. I have read the article in the Nov/Dec 2011 (# 150) issue of Q-Talk archive by Gary McKirdy (tech counselor UK, thanks Gary), that explains in detail about the T-Tail and Reflexor trim systems. He had commented in the article, quote: "If you have both the Elevator and T-Tail" inferring it to could be an option. I believe that many have both because the Elevator trim was the original configuration with T-Tail or Reflexor added later. Can I safely remove the original elevator trim wheel? Thanks guys Calvin Thorne 56 Rolling Range Estate Cochrane, Alberta, Canada T4C 2A3 Cell & text 403 860-7582 Aircraft building web page: http://users.xplornet.com/~vision/44/tailfeathers.html ____________________________________________________________ Overstock iPads - $30.93! Save big in overstock auctions: 32GB iPads just $30.93! Limit 1/day. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50fb6e53a7bec6e520692st01vuc |
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Thanks Bruce, The T-Tail and reflexor are equivalent to one another. The T-Tail was developed by one of the designers (Gary Legare Canadian distributor) for the airplane. Most Canadian built aircraft were built with the T-Tail instead of the Reflexor so we see more of these in Canada. The reflex or has a 15:1 moment arm where the T-Tail has a 33:1 moment arm. You will see one of these T-Tails sooner or later. I am flying a GU type canard with VG,s. I am not sure if the Sparrow strainers are exclusively for the LS1 canard or for both, I never had them so I'm thinking the elevator trim and sparrow strainers are possibly a equal to one another.
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Calvin --- In Q-LIST@..., "jcrain2@..." wrote:
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Kevin Boddicker
Calvin,
I had a T tail, elevator trim, and reflexor in my plane when I bought it. It had never flown. I kept the elevator trim, and rebuilt the reflexor, but got rid of the T tail. Saved about two pounds, no maintenance. I have a TriQ. My sparrow strainers were perfect as first set up. So I fly without any elevator trim control at all. I only use the elevator trim as a gust lock for parking. The reflexor is VERY powerful. See what the T tail guys say, make a decision, and press forward boldly. :>))) I viewed the T tail as additional drag, with little benefit. You milage may vary. Kevin Boddicker TriQ 200 N7868B 283 hrs Luana, IA. On Jan 19, 2013, at 12:39 PM, cbthorne14@... wrote: Hi everyone, [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Allan Farr
It's a Q2 so GU canard and no sparrow strainers?
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--- In Q-LIST@..., "jcrain2@..." wrote:
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My Q2 was built per plans with a GU canard, T-Tail and vortex generators. The original elevator trim wheel was used to control the T-Tail. The springs that were part of the original elevator trim were retained and permanently fixed to the firewall and the instrument panel with link chains. The springs were under tension (for almost full stick travel) and the chain links statically adjusted so the elevator was held in cruise position. This worked well, so we never changed the T-Tail to the "highly recommended" reflexer. The aircraft flew in cruise with the T-Tail neutral. If it had required either up or down deflection for cruise, we would have adjusted the springs (adding and removing chain links) such that the T-Tail would have flown neutral. So we never had an elevator trim and didn't need one!
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--- In Q-LIST@..., cbthorne14@... wrote:
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GU and LS1 are "apples to oranges". The GU apparently doesn't need the elevator trim wheel.Bruce
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From: "Allan" <afarr@...> To: Q-LIST@... Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Elevator and T-Tail trim ? Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 19:27:07 -0000 It's a Q2 so GU canard and no sparrow strainers? --- In Q-LIST@..., "jcrain2@..." wrote: > > No you cannot remove the elevator trim until you fly it and see if the elevator trim is neutral for pitch. The sparrow strainers are suppose to trim the elevator for neutral but they, in fact, usually don't work that well for 1sty flights. Most have a heavy nose down/forward pull on the stick until the sparrow strainers are addressed and worked with. I assume you have the LS1 canard as opposed to the GU canard.Most of the Quickies have a reflexor for trim also and that makes the t-tail redundant. There must be a reason that I have never seen a live t-tail on a Quickie. The aileron reflexor works best I believe.Bruce > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: cbthorne14@... > To: Q-LIST@... > Subject: [Q-LIST] Elevator and T-Tail trim ? > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:39:45 -0000 > > > > Hi everyone, > I am rebuilding a Q2 in Cochrane just outside of Calgary and have a question for those more knowledgeable. I would be grateful for advice. I have the T-Tail trim system on my Q2 C-GMBK and believe that I can omit the "Elevator trim" control that used to be on the forward center console. I believe that the elevator trim system is a possible safety issue in that it could be adjusted to reduce some of the elevator control movement if one was unaware of settings. Having two trim systems seems wrong to me. I have read the article in the Nov/Dec 2011 (# 150) issue of Q-Talk archive by Gary McKirdy (tech counselor UK, thanks Gary), that explains in detail about the T-Tail and Reflexor trim systems. He had commented in the article, quote: "If you have both the Elevator and T-Tail" inferring it to could be an option. I believe that many have both because the Elevator trim was the original configuration with T-Tail or Reflexor added later. Can I safely remove the original elevator trim wheel? > Thanks guys > > Calvin Thorne > 56 Rolling Range Estate > Cochrane, Alberta, Canada T4C 2A3 > Cell & text 403 860-7582 > Aircraft building web page: > http://users.xplornet.com/~vision/44/tailfeathers.html > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Overstock iPads - $30.93! > Save big in overstock auctions: 32GB iPads just $30.93! Limit 1/day. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50fb6e53a7bec6e520692st01vuc > > > |
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This forum is great. You fellows are being most helpful to me regarding this issue. I am very interested in the specific configurations you are flying. The Elevator trim is unused in some of your flying Q's. I now see that once you are trimmed out from flight tests and early flights some of you can do without it, interesting. I see it is important to keep our aircraft trimmed so there is minimal drag on the trim (t-tail or reflexor). Something I read today makes sense to me that we need to be able to jockey the elev trim against our Reflexor or T-tail trim systems. This is to achieve maximum speed and minimum drag. I now understand the fact that the elev trim increases camber which increases lift and is not just a pitch adjustment. I think I will replace the elevator trim even if it hardly get's touched once I have my aircraft flight configured again. Future gust lock maybe...
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Calvin Thorne Cochrane Alberta --- In Q-LIST@..., "David" wrote:
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Sound great Calvin! Will we see you soon at one of the fly in's? Oshkosh with your Q?Bruce
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From: cbthorne14@... To: Q-LIST@... Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Elevator and T-Tail trim ? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 02:03:25 -0000 This forum is great. You fellows are being most helpful to me regarding this issue. I am very interested in the specific configurations you are flying. The Elevator trim is unused in some of your flying Q's. I now see that once you are trimmed out from flight tests and early flights some of you can do without it, interesting. I see it is important to keep our aircraft trimmed so there is minimal drag on the trim (t-tail or reflexor). Something I read today makes sense to me that we need to be able to jockey the elev trim against our Reflexor or T-tail trim systems. This is to achieve maximum speed and minimum drag. I now understand the fact that the elev trim increases camber which increases lift and is not just a pitch adjustment. I think I will replace the elevator trim even if it hardly get's touched once I have my aircraft flight configured again. Future gust lock maybe... Calvin Thorne Cochrane Alberta --- In Q-LIST@..., "David" wrote: > > My Q2 was built per plans with a GU canard, T-Tail and vortex generators. The original elevator trim wheel was used to control the T-Tail. The springs that were part of the original elevator trim were retained and permanently fixed to the firewall and the instrument panel with link chains. The springs were under tension (for almost full stick travel) and the chain links statically adjusted so the elevator was held in cruise position. This worked well, so we never changed the T-Tail to the "highly recommended" reflexer. The aircraft flew in cruise with the T-Tail neutral. If it had required either up or down deflection for cruise, we would have adjusted the springs (adding and removing chain links) such that the T-Tail would have flown neutral. So we never had an elevator trim and didn't need one! > > --- In Q-LIST@..., cbthorne14@ wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > I am rebuilding a Q2 in Cochrane just outside of Calgary and have a question for those more knowledgeable. I would be grateful for advice. I have the T-Tail trim system on my Q2 C-GMBK and believe that I can omit the "Elevator trim" control that used to be on the forward center console. I believe that the elevator trim system is a possible safety issue in that it could be adjusted to reduce some of the elevator control movement if one was unaware of settings. Having two trim systems seems wrong to me. I have read the article in the Nov/Dec 2011 (# 150) issue of Q-Talk archive by Gary McKirdy (tech counselor UK, thanks Gary), that explains in detail about the T-Tail and Reflexor trim systems. He had commented in the article, quote: "If you have both the Elevator and T-Tail" inferring it to could be an option. I believe that many have both because the Elevator trim was the original configuration with T-Tail or Reflexor added later. Can I safely remove the original elevator trim wheel? > > Thanks guys > > > > Calvin Thorne > > 56 Rolling Range Estate > > Cochrane, Alberta, Canada T4C 2A3 > > Cell & text 403 860-7582 > > Aircraft building web page: > > http://users.xplornet.com/~vision/44/tailfeathers.html > > > ____________________________________________________________ Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50fcb652e87ac36527bffst04vuc |
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Gary McKirdy
Hi Calvin,
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Stick with both, safety (through redundancy) and performance benefits. Looks like you did your homework and got there already? One qualification........... make sure at a safe height and max speed that BOTH the front trim wheel and T-Tail mechanics have sufficient friction to avoid a big surprise in pitch when you least need it. Avoid accidental lubrication or sloppiness developing in these systems and take all the benefits. Imagine a low fast fly past when max speed and added turbulence contributes to an aircraft pitch system slippage induced rapid unanticipated pitch change for the fist time and you have no time to think what might be the cause. Then imagine the bad hair and knicker day that follows as the most successful outcome possible ! Regards Gary McKirdy 1000+safe hours XC and testing all Q variants. On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 3:29 AM, jcrain2@... <jcrain2@...> wrote:
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